Coffee and Probiotic Enema's

Thanks for this thread :)

I was suggested from the iodine thread to try probiotics enema as I have been taking probiotics it orally since 2 weeks and it's already almost finished (13 last). Now it seems like the coffee enema is very interesting as well. I'm kind of tight on my supplements budget and running out of key supplements as well (NAC, magnesium, tyrosine, B3), also need to replace my selenium as it has been said to be a toxic form. I think i'll try probiotics enema first and delay the coffee for next time. I have wasted money on fish oil and tryptophan last time so i am a bit anxious in choosing the good material material and strain. Is something live this good ? (_https://www.amazon.fr/Poire-a-Lavement-450-ml/dp/B00HEFEOR4/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1490908814&sr=8-5&keywords=enema) :-[ ;D

Also how many times or at what frequency to you do the enema ? and I assumed you don't have to take it orally ever again?
 
onemen said:
Thanks for this thread :)

I was suggested from the iodine thread to try probiotics enema as I have been taking probiotics it orally since 2 weeks and it's already almost finished (13 last). Now it seems like the coffee enema is very interesting as well. I'm kind of tight on my supplements budget and running out of key supplements as well (NAC, magnesium, tyrosine, B3), also need to replace my selenium as it has been said to be a toxic form.

If you can tolerate nuts, you could eat Brazil nuts/noix d'Amazonie to replace selenium supplementation. They contain a lot of selenium so you don't need to eat many (1 or 2 should be enough) to reach the 200 mcg dose/day.
_https://draxe.com/brazil-nuts/

I think i'll try probiotics enema first and delay the coffee for next time. I have wasted money on fish oil and tryptophan last time so i am a bit anxious in choosing the good material material and strain. Is something live this good ? (_https://www.amazon.fr/Poire-a-Lavement-450-ml/dp/B00HEFEOR4/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1490908814&sr=8-5&keywords=enema) :-[ ;D

It might not be ideal if you intend to do enemas regularly (whether coffee or probiotics). The best solution would be to use a bucket made from a safe material. A silicon bucket would be the cheapest option while still being safe:

The cheap enema bags at the drugstore should be avoided because they are difficult if not impossible to clean which can, over time, lead to an introduction of pathogens into the gut along with the coffee enema. In addition, the materials used to make these cheap enema bags might be a source of toxins which leech into the concentrated, highly acidic coffee that is brewed for enema purposes.

In my opinion, the best and safest container to use is a glass enema bucket made of shatter resistant, medical grade glass. If glass is too expensive an option or not something you wish to use, the next best choice would be a stainless steel bucket (these are used by the Gerson Institute) or a medical grade silicone bag. While there is good clinical evidence that coffee enemas (not bulletproof coffee enemas) present no problem for beneficial gut flora, one thing you should be concerned about is the container used to hold the coffee.

https://www.sott.net/article/301218-Detoxing-protocols-Coffee-enema

Also how many times or at what frequency to you do the enema ? and I assumed you don't have to take it orally ever again?

I think it depends on the state of your gut to begin with. Apparently some people see results with one single enema. For others, it takes more to see a difference. I think it's still beneficial to take oral probiotics, perhaps not constantly but periodically, or when your gut needs a bit of support (during/after an antibiotics course, for ex.)
 
Adaryn said:
Also how many times or at what frequency to you do the enema ? and I assumed you don't have to take it orally ever again?

I think it depends on the state of your gut to begin with. Apparently some people see results with one single enema. For others, it takes more to see a difference. I think it's still beneficial to take oral probiotics, perhaps not constantly but periodically, or when your gut needs a bit of support (during/after an antibiotics course, for ex.)
Personally, for me it fluctuates. Sometimes I''l do coffee and probiotic once a week, sometimes I'll go weeks without. It just depends on how I'm feeling and how reactive I am to what I'm eating.
 
Stumbled upon a quote from Gurdjieff about enemas on page 35 of "Gurdjeff And The Woman Of The Rope":

Thursday, February 6, 1936

Reading before and after dinner Mr. Gurdjieff talked about proper mixing of food and showed us a scale of seven notes in spices - brought out seven bags from the store room and named them do, re, mi etc. This scale is very bad for all but me. Alice in bed, Katie "upset"; he told both to take enema last night and gave a talk on proper method. "Even cleans up psyche. First must inject four glasses, then eight, then sixteen, last time twenty-five. One time I injected fifty-four glasses, held while chopped tree.

Everbody astonsihed," he said. (Katie bravely tried the sixteen but she burst on twelth.) He said all "lower" floors purefied by this process, as much law as bath or washing face. In the midst of dinner he stopped and looked at guest. "I can't eat pudding - I swallow and it stick half way. Must wait for new process to make go down. Such is effect on me of Mees X's vibrations."

Further I found this quote attributed to Gurdjieff:

"All who have come to me must have enema each day."

Find it interesting that he emphasizes how good it is to clean up the "lower" floors and that he apparently recommended to do them each day for his pupils. Further his mentioning of holding ever larger amounts while doing normal physical movements (in his case chopping wood) is interesting as well.

As far as I know Dr. Datis Kharrazian in his book also recommends to do enemas, if possible, daily and explains how beneficial it is for activating the vagus nerve and the proper functioning between guts and brain and visa versa in general.

I noticed that I had a hard time of holding even small amounts of fluid at the beginning when I started with the enemas and now can hold much more and am better able to hold it in. I guess Gurdjieff's saying about holding it in, while doing hard physical work, was one of his methods to first: clean the "lower" floors, second: get things moving properly between gut and brain, third: building up strengths and will by "holding back". From experience I can say that the holding back takes quite some mental and physical discipline, especially after a while of it being in your guts. Seems to me that this "holding back" could be a good practise for the mind and the "lower" floors or body in general.
 
Keyhole said:
Carl said:
Keyhole said:
Hi Carl, I am curious as to why this guy says that probiotics should get into the small intestines. Did he elaborate in any way? Because my current understanding was that the small intestine should be relatively sterile, and that it is the lower colon where the bacteria are said to thrive. If there are any data on this, I would be interested to see it if you know of any?

I sent him an email seeing if he has any references to hand on this because yeah, most of the data out there is about SIBO and pretty much all small intestinal batceria being bad! I'll post anything I find.
Cheers, looking forward to hearing what he has to say!

He gave some phrases to plug into google scholar. Mainly words from my question 'Importance of small intestinal bacteria', SIBO. He also suggested 'GALT', and 'cryptic bacteria'.

I've been moving house and generally busy so not had a chance to check this out. This morning I've had a little look and have not found much yet that is directly related.

GALT, from Wikipedia:
Gut-associated lymphoid tissue (GALT)[1] is a component of the mucosa-associated lymphoid tissue (MALT) which works in the immune system to protect the body from invasion in the gut.

Owing to its physiological function in food absorption, the mucosal surface is thin and acts as a permeable barrier to the interior of the body. Equally, its fragility and permeability creates vulnerability to infection and, in fact, the vast majority of the infectious agents invading the human body use this route.[2] The functional importance of GALT in body's defense relies on its large population of plasma cells, which are antibody producers, whose number exceeds the number of plasma cells in spleen, lymph nodes and bone marrow combined.[3]

Cryptic bacteria seems to be another word for biofilms, but might have more meanings.
 
Pashalis said:
I noticed that I had a hard time of holding even small amounts of fluid at the beginning when I started with the enemas and now can hold much more and am better able to hold it in. I guess Gurdjieff's saying about holding it in, while doing hard physical work, was one of his methods to first: clean the "lower" floors, second: get things moving properly between gut and brain, third: building up strengths and will by "holding back". From experience I can say that the holding back takes quite some mental and physical discipline, especially after a while of it being in your guts. Seems to me that this "holding back" could be a good practise for the mind and the "lower" floors or body in general.

That is interesting that Gurdjieff would be doing enema's daily and have his students doing the same! I'm not so sure about the upwards of 54 glasses though that Gurdjieff claimed he did once. Is that even possible? I can hold in a maximum of 1 cup and not for very long, maybe several minutes at the longest. But I recently started doing the probiotic enema's first thing in the morning rather than in the evenings and it is a really good way of starting off the day. Usually I have a lot of background anxiety in the mornings with an intense urge to do something, but I'm actually a lot calmer and clear headed after doing the enema today. So it's definitely activating the vagus nerve, and actually I suspect that the 'holding back' is what stimulates it, because every time the urge to purge comes on and I 'resist' it, I get a lot of gurgling and but also am calmer after the resistance subsides and the bathroom seems a lot more vivid in color and perception.
 
Turgon said:
[...]That is interesting that Gurdjieff would be doing enema's daily and have his students doing the same! I'm not so sure about the upwards of 54 glasses though that Gurdjieff claimed he did once. Is that even possible?

I guess it depends on how he defined the size of the glass. ;) A shot glass for example is much smaller then a normal glass. Since G wasn't just anybody, I wouldn't be suprised if that story is actually true.

Turgon said:
I can hold in a maximum of 1 cup and not for very long, maybe several minutes at the longest. But I recently started doing the probiotic enema's first thing in the morning rather than in the evenings and it is a really good way of starting off the day. Usually I have a lot of background anxiety in the mornings with an intense urge to do something, but I'm actually a lot calmer and clear headed after doing the enema today. So it's definitely activating the vagus nerve, and actually I suspect that the 'holding back' is what stimulates it, because every time the urge to purge comes on and I 'resist' it, I get a lot of gurgling and but also am calmer after the resistance subsides and the bathroom seems a lot more vivid in color and perception.

I'll have to restart the enemas again, but from the limited experience so far, it seems to be quite beneficial and also the holding back part, for a while, seems to have its specific purpose also.

Unfortunately I haven't come across any mentioning yet what type of liquid he actually used for the enemas.
 
Pashalis said:
Turgon said:
[...]That is interesting that Gurdjieff would be doing enema's daily and have his students doing the same! I'm not so sure about the upwards of 54 glasses though that Gurdjieff claimed he did once. Is that even possible?

I guess it depends on how he defined the size of the glass. ;) A shot glass for example is much smaller then a normal glass. Since G wasn't just anybody, I wouldn't be suprised if that story is actually true.

:lol: That's true.

Pashalis said:
Unfortunately I haven't come across any mentioning yet what type of liquid he actually used for the enemas.

I think a clue is in the quote you posted.

Everbody astonsihed," he said. (Katie bravely tried the sixteen but she burst on twelth.) He said all "lower" floors purefied by this process, as much law as bath or washing face.

Which to me indicates if it works by the same 'law' as taking a bath or washing your face, then all three must involve water.
 
Turgon said:
I can hold in a maximum of 1 cup and not for very long, maybe several minutes at the longest.

I don't recall where I read it now, but I read that adding epsom salt to the coffee enema can make it easier to retain, which has been my experience. I usually use 1-2 tablespoons whenever I do a coffee enema and can hold it for ~20 minutes.
 
Foxx said:
Turgon said:
I can hold in a maximum of 1 cup and not for very long, maybe several minutes at the longest.

I don't recall where I read it now, but I read that adding epsom salt to the coffee enema can make it easier to retain, which has been my experience. I usually use 1-2 tablespoons whenever I do a coffee enema and can hold it for ~20 minutes.

Another trick I use to strengthen the gut's ability to hold it in is to focus on a point anywhere in front of you as intensely as you can. It deepens the experience and the beneficial after effects of calmness and serenity last a little bit longer. If I focus on reading or music while doing it, the brain's control over the muscles tends to be more diffuse. I suppose that the gut afferent feedback also becomes dampened (that's 90% of the gut nervous system right there!).

It's also interesting to note that Dr. Datis Kharazzian says that doing coffee enemas regularly does not create a dependency. He also gave other tips on strengthening brain-gut communication, including gargling, singing and activating the gag reflex. There is a video of his interview on this topic that was conducted by Sean Croxton in his Digestion Sessions that was posted here. I highly recommend watching it if you are thinking of doing the coffee enema and/or are looking to recover function of the vagus nerve and improve brain functioning. The book thread is Why Isn't My Brain Working? A Revolutionary Understanding of Brain Decline.

Just a side note, I was wondering about this statement in the first post:

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic said:
How to do a Coffee Enema

1. Fill your container with 500ml to 1 liter maximum of coffee solution
2. Use 2 or 3 rounded TBSP of coffee bean powder per enema
3. When using the coffee solution for enema it must be room temperature
4. Lubricate tubing w/olive or coconut oil
5. Insert tubing roughly 3 inches (7.5 cm) up backside in the direction of your navel
6. Retain the liquid for 12-15 minutes maximum
[...]

Does anyone know if there is any harm associated with keeping the enema in beyond 15 minutes?
 
bm said:
Does anyone know if there is any harm associated with keeping the enema in beyond 15 minutes?

In the booklet that was sent along the enema coffee that I ordered from Cor-vital, it just says that there is no added benefit to holding it in beyond 15 min. So apparently, it's harmless, it's just that you won't have more benefits doing so.
 
Adaryn said:
bm said:
Does anyone know if there is any harm associated with keeping the enema in beyond 15 minutes?

In the booklet that was sent along the enema coffee that I ordered from Cor-vital, it just says that there is no added benefit to holding it in beyond 15 min. So apparently, it's harmless, it's just that you won't have more benefits doing so.

In one of the articles I linked to at the beginning of this thread, the author had this to say about length. So it's kind of open and based on how much discomfort you can tolerate.

You will want to retain the enema for at least 12 minutes. Some recommend retaining it for 15 to 20 minutes or longer perhaps up to 1 hour. Some recommend never holding it more than 15 minutes. Each therapist has reasons for their suggestions. Personally, I shoot for 12 to 20 minutes, and let my level of comfort dictate the length of the enema. If I have accumulated bowel gas, then this will make the enema more uncomfortable as the gas gets moved around in the colon by contractions of the muscles in the colon wall. If it becomes very uncomfortable and painful, then you should end the process sooner. You do not need to torture yourself. You can always repeat the process again later.
 
Below is a video series that the creator of Elixa is also making. It deserves more views really because it's very well explained in very simple terms.


https://youtu.be/lPOdx-aY0QM

The gist is that different microbes thrive better off of different types of prebiotics, and the reason that so many are sensitive to sugar, alcohol or various other things may be that there are a large number of bad critters which are feeding on it preferentially and creating their toxic byproducts. For instance you might have a species of bacteria which are very efficient at feeding on sugar - better than other microbes. If you eat lots of sugar, these will therefore multiply faster and take up more territory. Eventually when they have gained enough momentum, it is very hard to turn that around, and any slip up with diet can cause problems.
The answer seems to be to inundate the gut with friendly critters, and then constantly feed the types of prebiotics that the good critters are more efficient at feeding on.

I'm pretty well convinced that the gut critters are extremely high up in the rank of importance when it comes to health. Now I'm just trying to figure out how heavy metals and biofilms fit into the picture.
 
Understanding the benefits of various probiotic strains and how they affect digestive health is essential in order to properly evaluate which probiotic supplement is best for you. This table identifies a number of common probiotic strains and the benefits they confer. Refer to it as you weigh the pros and cons of different products.

Lactobacillus Species

The predominant and most important bacteria that reside in the small intestine are the Lactobacillus species. These species are responsible for producing lactase, the enzyme required to break down lactose (the sugar in milk). They also collectively ferment carbohydrates in the gut, producing lactic acid as result of this process. Lactic acid helps create an acidic environment in the digestive tract, which discourages many unwanted microorganisms that thrive in an alkaline environment. Lactic acid also increases absorption of minerals such as calcium, copper, magnesium, and iron.

L. Acidophilus is, in my opinion, is the most important strain of the Lactobacillus species. This bacterium colonizes most densely in the small intestine, where it helps maintain the integrity of the intestinal wall, ensure proper nutrient absorption, and support healthy overall digestive function.

Research shows that acidophilus also can help ease occasional digestive discomfort. In a double blind placebo controlled study, patients taking this probiotic strain experienced significantly more relief from their symptoms than patients taking a placebo. A separate meta-analysis found that probiotics containing acidophilus help to alleviate occasional diarrhea, and a third study found that supplements containing both acidophilus and B. bifidum help modulate the response of microflora in the intestines to the effects of antibiotics.

Additional preliminary research shows that acidophilus may help boost immune system activity and support vaginal health in women.
Overall digestion
Nutrient absorption
Relief from occasional cramping, gas, and diarrhea
Immune health
Urinary and vaginal health in women

L. fermentum. This probiotic strain, which has been found in the probiotic foods sourdough and kimchi, produces superoxide dismutase and glutathione, both powerful antioxidants that help neutralize some of the toxic products made in the gut during digestion. L. fermentum has also been isolated as exhibiting activity against foodborne pathogens.
Overall digestion
Detoxification

L. plantarum L. plantarum is known for its ability to produce hydrogen peroxide. The body uses hydrogen peroxide as a defense against bacteria consumed in food, as well as other microorganisms. Research has also found this strain to be effective in helping support immune function in healthy adults.
Overall digestion
Immune health

L. rhamnosus This probiotic strain is known for its ability to survive passage through the GI tract and is thought to be among the best Lactobacillus strains for vaginal health. It also loves to travel to foreign places; that is, a review of research on probiotics finds that Americans traveling from New York, NY, to developing countries and taking L. rhamnosus had a 3.9 percent rate of diarrhea, compared to a 7.4 percent rate for those not taking a probiotic.

A second review of research concluded that L. rhamnosus may help improve vaginal and urinary health and decrease vaginal irritation.
Traveler’s diarrhea
Vaginal health in women

L. salivarius L. salivarius is somewhat unique among probiotic strains in that it is capable of growing in less than ideal conditions, including environments high in salt, and with or without oxygen. It is found in the oral cavities (mouth, throat, and sinuses), intestines, and vagina, but grows best in the small intestine.

Research has shown that people taking L. salivarius had increased markers of immune activity. An additional study found that supplementing with L. salivarius helps to prevent the colonization of undesirable bacteria.
Immune health
Oral health

L. paracasei
L. paracasei is a robust strain found in the small intestine. It may also colonize in the colon if taken along with milk protein, which increases its resistance to stomach acid. This probiotic strain has the unique ability to support liver function. A prospective randomized study found that supplementation with a mixture of fiber and probiotics, which included L. paracasei, lowered urine pH and improved liver function in half of subjects.
Liver health

L. gasseri Relatively new, this probiotic strain is among the species of Lactobacilli predominantly linked to microflora in the vagina. Women with vaginal discomfort tend to have lower levels of L. gasseri than women with normal vaginal health.

L. gasseri also supports digestive health. Research shows that supplementation with a combination of L. gasseri and B. longum helps limit occasional diarrhea in adults.
Vaginal health
Relief from occasional diarrhea

L. reuteri L. reuteri colonizes in both the intestine and oral cavity. In human trials, it has been shown to support digestive, oral, and immune health.
Oral health
Immune health
Overall digestion


Bifidobacterium Species

Billions of Bifidobacterium line the walls of the large intestine (colon) and help ward off invasive harmful bacteria and other microorganisms, including yeast. Like the Lactobacillus strain, Bifidobacterium produce lactic acid, which provides up to 70 percent of the energy required by cells that line the intestinal wall, enhancing the natural protective barrier in the gut. Lactic acid also helps keep the pH of the large intestine acidic to discourage the growth of other bacteria. Additionally, this lower pH environment facilitates the absorption of minerals such as calcium, copper, magnesium, iron, and zinc. Bifidobacterium also produce B-complex vitamins and vitamin K.

As we age, the numbers of Bifidobacterium found lining the large intestinal wall naturally begins to decline.

B. bifidum This probiotic strain is among the first to colonize in the intestines of babies and continues throughout life to be one of the main groups of good flora found in the large intestine. (It can also be found in the small intestine.) In addition to helping promote bacterial balance, it prevents the growth of unwanted bacteria, molds, and yeasts by naturally adhering to the intestinal mucosa better than other bacterial strains.

B. Bifidum assists in the breakdown of complex carbohydrates, fat, and proteins during digestion. It also produces enzymes that break the larger molecules down into smaller components that the body can more efficiently use.

A meta-analysis of double blind human trials found that B. bifidum is one of the probiotic strains that can help alleviate occasional diarrhea, especially when traveling.
Overall digestion
Nutrient absorption
Relief from occasional diarrhea (particularly related to travel)

B. longum B. longum is one of the more common strains of Bifidobacteria found in the GI tract. Its digestive benefits stem from its ability to break down carbohydrates and to scavenge and neutralize everyday toxins found in the gut. Preliminary research suggests that the antioxidant properties of this probiotic strain include the chelation of metal ions—especially copper—and the scavenging of free radicals.

It is also supportive of immune health. Elderly patients administered B. longum showed heightened immune function for 20 weeks after discontinuing supplementation.
Overall digestion
Detoxification
Immune health

B. infantis This probiotic strain is the largest population of beneficial bacteria in babies. The amount of B. infantis in our guts decline as we age, but it remains an important part of our microflora. Supplementation with B. infantis has been shown to decrease bloating and bowel movement difficulty.
Overall digestion
Relief from occasional bloating and constipation


Bacillus Species

Bacillus bacteria are rod-shaped, spore-bearing bacteria that produce lactic acid Because it is a spore-bearing bacterium, it is highly resistant to heat, moisture, and light, making it highly resistant to stomach acid, and readily colonizes in the small intestine. Bacillus also resides in the body longer than other bacteria and is excreted slowly.

B. coagulans B. coagulans, like other lactic acid–producing bacteria, produces enzymes that assist in the digestion of lactose. It also improves the body’s ability to use calcium, phosphorus, and iron, and stimulates both gastric juices and gastric motility.

This strain also supports vaginal health in women. One study shows that women who took B. coagulans daily saw improvements in their vaginal pH level, with 91 percent of reporting relief from vaginal discomfort.
Overall digestion
Relief from occasional constipation
Vaginal health


Streptoccocus Species

S. salivarius K12. This probiotic strain is found in the oral cavity’s mucus membranes and is known for its ability to produce BLIS (bacteriocin-like inhibitory substances), which inhibit the ability of other undesirable bacteria to grow.

Research has found that the 10 percent of the population who naturally carry BLIS-producing strains of oral bacteria have significantly fewer sore throats. Studies have associated S. salivarius K12 with better ear health in children, “significantly” reduced dental plaque scores, increased levels of interferon gamma in saliva (an immune marker), and significant reduction in volatile sulphur compounds that cause bad breath.
Overall oral health
Immune health

S. Salivarius M18 S. salivarius M18 is also found predominantly in oral mucosa and, like the K12 strain, it also produces BLIS. S. salivarius M18 is most active in specific areas on the gums and teeth. S. salivarius M18 also promotes a healthy inflammatory response in the gums.
Healthy teeth and gums


Thank you Turgon. So I will choose and compare different brands based on this.

Where do you guys living in France browse for Probiotics ? I notice it tend to be higher price on amazon.fr but quicker to be deliver while the opposite on ebay.com
 
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