Coronavirus Pandemic: Apocalypse Now! Or exaggerated scare story?
- Thread starter wanderingthomas
- Start date
So Germany is off to more strict Lockdown-mode.
Closing everything but: shops with food, drugstores...and schools which is optional; kids may or may not come, it’s up to parents to decide.
My kid had his birthday yesterday.
We sent out few invitations a week ago, just before this new announcement, we planned a small party - all together 6 kids; my 2 kids and 4 friends from school.
Now - it’s ok for parents to send their kids every day to school (my thinking here: get rid of them so they don’t have to deal with them at home and learn with them, almost all kids from the class are still sitting in the school whole day every day) BUT it is totally not ok to alow their kid to come to small private party because they want to cut contacts to minimum!!!!!
....what to say about that, I’m laughing and swearing all at once....
Yes, from 4 invitations, 3 were declined.
We‘ll have a party in spring....
Just an example how bizarre people can be....
Closing everything but: shops with food, drugstores...and schools which is optional; kids may or may not come, it’s up to parents to decide.
My kid had his birthday yesterday.
We sent out few invitations a week ago, just before this new announcement, we planned a small party - all together 6 kids; my 2 kids and 4 friends from school.
Now - it’s ok for parents to send their kids every day to school (my thinking here: get rid of them so they don’t have to deal with them at home and learn with them, almost all kids from the class are still sitting in the school whole day every day) BUT it is totally not ok to alow their kid to come to small private party because they want to cut contacts to minimum!!!!!
....what to say about that, I’m laughing and swearing all at once....
Yes, from 4 invitations, 3 were declined.
We‘ll have a party in spring....
Just an example how bizarre people can be....
At least pregnant women would be spared from vaccine, other pregnant people may not, wonder if those will be the first in line.
Attachments
They will not install nanochip or other things. Nobody will die after vaccination (except few case maybe). They are not silly. MRNA will change chromosome 20 (adenosine deaminase gene). After the vaccination, we will have On-Off button on chromosome 20. So after some years Coronovirus 2030 pandemic will come and they will close our immune system button (5G?). What happens next? And nobody will realize who was to blame.-
Second that! And, good link. These commenters, 'crying' over the pm getting bothered, is that the cyberunit, perhaps?I was happy to see that some people were protesting outside the Dutch PM's residence and according to reports while the PM was talking down to the nation the protesters could be heard outside.
My impression: There was a cold spell last week. Some children had flue, one of mine a headache fryday. New massive covid pcr 'test streets' in town, so some children went and falsely were found positive. Expecting the worst, monday the group 8 class closed two days awaiting the test result. Tuesday 1900 the government measures starting midnight (to prevent a run on the stores, but it was very buzzy everywhere in the city, many people saw it coming) also ment x-mas dinner at school was canceled, and school would close for 5 weeks. 2 weeks over the holydays. Kids think they stole our party.
My feeling is it will be extended, last time two weeks became six. And i heard the horeca is going to try to open, the second week of january. We cannot have that, can we? It feels like dark fog. Building.
Now, wednesday night, the ringway is empty. And, no airplanes. How they do that?
Here is an article from The Boston Globe that a co-worker sent me. It requires a subscription which my co-worker had and forwarded me the full article. I would definitely be playing the religious card if/when it comes to it.
Eventually, getting the COVID-19 vaccine could be required for many - The Boston Globe
WASHINGTON — The first shots against the coronavirus made their way into the arms of eager front line health care workers nationwide this week, providing a glimmer of hope for a post-pandemic world. But once those volunteers are all vaccinated, some workers who are less excited about the vaccine could face mandates to receive it anyway, public health and legal experts say.
For now, doses of the newly authorized Pfizer vaccine are in short supply and have not yet been approved for use in children or pregnant women, meaning any potential mandates are likely still months or more away. But while President-elect Joe Biden has said he doesn’t support a vaccine mandate, in the future, private businesses, schools, and perhaps even states and localities could require the shots for those who don’t qualify for religious or medical exemptions.
Legal precedent — including a landmark Massachusetts case — suggests those mandates would be on solid ground in court.
“I absolutely envisage that, say, by the fall, when students are coming back to universities and when businesses are coming back and we want to get our economy on track, that there will be requirements for students and employees to be vaccinated,” said Lawrence Gostin, a professor at Georgetown Law specializing in public health law.
A bevy of lawsuits would likely accompany any decision by a private sector company to mandate the vaccine, which means some employers could instead decide to deploy incentives to encourage inoculations. But the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which enforces federal laws that make it illegal to discriminate in the workplace, said in 2009 that workplaces could mandate the swine flu vaccine as long as some exemptions were included, making it likely the commission would uphold mandates for this one, as well.
“Employers doing this are certainly taking a risk they will be challenged,” said Dorit Reiss, professor at the University of California Hastings College of the Law.
The power for the public sector to mandate vaccines is clearer. All 50 states require some childhood vaccines as a condition of public school entry, and those have been instrumental in getting immunization rates high enough to maintain herd immunity against diseases like the measles.
“Generally states have pretty broad power to step into the public health arena even if they’re stepping on individual rights,” Reiss said. “That’s the basis for a lot of measures we’ve already seen for COVID-19, such as masks and stay-at-home mandates.”
The landmark case establishing those vast powers originated more than a century ago in Cambridge, Mass., where a Swedish immigrant and Lutheran minister named Henning Jacobson refused to pay a $5 fine the city levied on him for refusing to be vaccinated against smallpox. He had argued the vaccine mandate violated his civil liberties.
The Supreme Court ruled against the minister in 1905, affirming the right for local governments to require vaccines by law. In that same decision, however, the court said the state could not compel someone to take the vaccine by force — a rebuke to the city officials in Boston and elsewhere who had been going door-to-door and forcibly vaccinating people without a telltale vaccination scar on their arms. That case, Jacobson v. Massachusetts, remains the law of the land.
“The easy case in American law was always public health — the powers to quarantine, the power to issue compulsory vaccination orders,” said Michael Willrich, a historian at Brandeis University who wrote a book about the smallpox vaccination campaign and its backlash. “These were challenged in the courts but almost universally upheld.”
But just because the power exists doesn’t mean city or state officials will be quick to use it. The incoming Biden administration is strongly signaling it does not support government mandates for the vaccine at the moment. “I will do everything in my power as president to encourage people to do the right thing and when they do it, demonstrate that it matters,” Biden said this month.
Representative Cedric Richmond, who will serve as a top adviser to Biden in the White House, reiterated that position on CBS’ “Face the Nation” on Sunday. “I don’t think we’re going to mandate anything,” he said. “What we’re going to do is appeal to the American people to rise up to their civic duty.”
A pandemic-free future is likely contingent upon enough Americans — 70 percent or more — receiving the vaccine to provide herd immunity to the rest of the population. Recent polls show about 60 percent of Americans would take the shot, a number that has increased substantially in the past few months. That prompts hope in some experts that mandates may not be necessary.
Howard Koh, the former assistant secretary for health for the Department of Health and Human Services, said he could envisage some employers mandating the vaccine, but he doesn’t imagine states or localities would take that step. “I don’t see that on the horizon for the near future or possibly ever,” he said.
Instead, he believes it will be crucial for the Food and Drug Administration to carefully track the long-term safety profile of the vaccines as they are doled out. That will help make the case to people to take the shots — without mandates.
“If we do all that, show it’s effective, safe not only short term but long term, then the major challenge will be to make it convenient, easy to access, and encourage people to sign up and receive a vaccine,” he said.
Mandating a vaccine can also provoke a backlash that might outweigh the public health benefits, some experts believe.
“Mandates shouldn’t be the front-line policy option,” said Saad Omer, a vaccinologist and infectious disease epidemiologist at Yale.
Omer added that in the future, several criteria must be met before mandating vaccines, including that the pandemic is still out of control and that any penalties for not taking the vaccine do not exacerbate inequalities, such as fining lower-income people who don’t want to take the shot.
Many of these questions are still far away, as the Pfizer vaccine is under an emergency use authorization right now, with Moderna’s vaccine potentially joining it in the coming days. Experts believe most institutions would not require a vaccine until the FDA has fully approved it, a process that could take six more months. At that point, it’s also possible the pandemic will be under control, lessening the need for mandates.
But employers are already busily discussing their options, which include a range of incentives such as extra time off, to encourage employees to get vaccinated rather than outright requiring it.
“Employers are sort of in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation when it comes to litigious individuals,” said Susanne Hafer, an employment lawyer at Sullivan & Worcester in Boston. “Are you opening yourself up to claims of negligence if you don’t require the vaccine and someone gets sick? If you do mandate it, could you be sued by people who claim injury as a result of the vaccine?”
Jack Manning, president of the Boston recruiting firm Manning Personnel Group, said some employers are considering only allowing workers who have been vaccinated back to the office. “Many firms are in a bit of a wait and see mode,” he wrote in an e-mail.
Most of the thorny questions of mandates assume widespread availability of the vaccine in the future, a question that is not yet settled.
“Right now the first problem is, ‘Are there going to be enough doses for those who want them,’ ” Reiss said.
Eventually, getting the COVID-19 vaccine could be required for many - The Boston Globe
WASHINGTON — The first shots against the coronavirus made their way into the arms of eager front line health care workers nationwide this week, providing a glimmer of hope for a post-pandemic world. But once those volunteers are all vaccinated, some workers who are less excited about the vaccine could face mandates to receive it anyway, public health and legal experts say.
For now, doses of the newly authorized Pfizer vaccine are in short supply and have not yet been approved for use in children or pregnant women, meaning any potential mandates are likely still months or more away. But while President-elect Joe Biden has said he doesn’t support a vaccine mandate, in the future, private businesses, schools, and perhaps even states and localities could require the shots for those who don’t qualify for religious or medical exemptions.
Legal precedent — including a landmark Massachusetts case — suggests those mandates would be on solid ground in court.
“I absolutely envisage that, say, by the fall, when students are coming back to universities and when businesses are coming back and we want to get our economy on track, that there will be requirements for students and employees to be vaccinated,” said Lawrence Gostin, a professor at Georgetown Law specializing in public health law.
A bevy of lawsuits would likely accompany any decision by a private sector company to mandate the vaccine, which means some employers could instead decide to deploy incentives to encourage inoculations. But the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which enforces federal laws that make it illegal to discriminate in the workplace, said in 2009 that workplaces could mandate the swine flu vaccine as long as some exemptions were included, making it likely the commission would uphold mandates for this one, as well.
“Employers doing this are certainly taking a risk they will be challenged,” said Dorit Reiss, professor at the University of California Hastings College of the Law.
The power for the public sector to mandate vaccines is clearer. All 50 states require some childhood vaccines as a condition of public school entry, and those have been instrumental in getting immunization rates high enough to maintain herd immunity against diseases like the measles.
“Generally states have pretty broad power to step into the public health arena even if they’re stepping on individual rights,” Reiss said. “That’s the basis for a lot of measures we’ve already seen for COVID-19, such as masks and stay-at-home mandates.”
The landmark case establishing those vast powers originated more than a century ago in Cambridge, Mass., where a Swedish immigrant and Lutheran minister named Henning Jacobson refused to pay a $5 fine the city levied on him for refusing to be vaccinated against smallpox. He had argued the vaccine mandate violated his civil liberties.
The Supreme Court ruled against the minister in 1905, affirming the right for local governments to require vaccines by law. In that same decision, however, the court said the state could not compel someone to take the vaccine by force — a rebuke to the city officials in Boston and elsewhere who had been going door-to-door and forcibly vaccinating people without a telltale vaccination scar on their arms. That case, Jacobson v. Massachusetts, remains the law of the land.
“The easy case in American law was always public health — the powers to quarantine, the power to issue compulsory vaccination orders,” said Michael Willrich, a historian at Brandeis University who wrote a book about the smallpox vaccination campaign and its backlash. “These were challenged in the courts but almost universally upheld.”
But just because the power exists doesn’t mean city or state officials will be quick to use it. The incoming Biden administration is strongly signaling it does not support government mandates for the vaccine at the moment. “I will do everything in my power as president to encourage people to do the right thing and when they do it, demonstrate that it matters,” Biden said this month.
Representative Cedric Richmond, who will serve as a top adviser to Biden in the White House, reiterated that position on CBS’ “Face the Nation” on Sunday. “I don’t think we’re going to mandate anything,” he said. “What we’re going to do is appeal to the American people to rise up to their civic duty.”
A pandemic-free future is likely contingent upon enough Americans — 70 percent or more — receiving the vaccine to provide herd immunity to the rest of the population. Recent polls show about 60 percent of Americans would take the shot, a number that has increased substantially in the past few months. That prompts hope in some experts that mandates may not be necessary.
Howard Koh, the former assistant secretary for health for the Department of Health and Human Services, said he could envisage some employers mandating the vaccine, but he doesn’t imagine states or localities would take that step. “I don’t see that on the horizon for the near future or possibly ever,” he said.
Instead, he believes it will be crucial for the Food and Drug Administration to carefully track the long-term safety profile of the vaccines as they are doled out. That will help make the case to people to take the shots — without mandates.
“If we do all that, show it’s effective, safe not only short term but long term, then the major challenge will be to make it convenient, easy to access, and encourage people to sign up and receive a vaccine,” he said.
Mandating a vaccine can also provoke a backlash that might outweigh the public health benefits, some experts believe.
“Mandates shouldn’t be the front-line policy option,” said Saad Omer, a vaccinologist and infectious disease epidemiologist at Yale.
Omer added that in the future, several criteria must be met before mandating vaccines, including that the pandemic is still out of control and that any penalties for not taking the vaccine do not exacerbate inequalities, such as fining lower-income people who don’t want to take the shot.
Many of these questions are still far away, as the Pfizer vaccine is under an emergency use authorization right now, with Moderna’s vaccine potentially joining it in the coming days. Experts believe most institutions would not require a vaccine until the FDA has fully approved it, a process that could take six more months. At that point, it’s also possible the pandemic will be under control, lessening the need for mandates.
But employers are already busily discussing their options, which include a range of incentives such as extra time off, to encourage employees to get vaccinated rather than outright requiring it.
“Employers are sort of in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation when it comes to litigious individuals,” said Susanne Hafer, an employment lawyer at Sullivan & Worcester in Boston. “Are you opening yourself up to claims of negligence if you don’t require the vaccine and someone gets sick? If you do mandate it, could you be sued by people who claim injury as a result of the vaccine?”
Jack Manning, president of the Boston recruiting firm Manning Personnel Group, said some employers are considering only allowing workers who have been vaccinated back to the office. “Many firms are in a bit of a wait and see mode,” he wrote in an e-mail.
Most of the thorny questions of mandates assume widespread availability of the vaccine in the future, a question that is not yet settled.
“Right now the first problem is, ‘Are there going to be enough doses for those who want them,’ ” Reiss said.
Ocean
The Living Force
Robert Kennedy Blows Whistle on Fauci and FDA
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. revealed to Thomas Paine that he personally warned Dr. Anthony Fauci and the FDA commissioner about dangerous problems with the COVID vaccine but those warnings fell on deaf government ears. In fact, shockingly — they were ignored.
Mr. Kennedy, a vaccine expert and top lawyer, joined the Thomas Paine Podcast to drop repeated bombshell warnings to all Americans contemplating the vaccine. The same warnings that the government essentially covered up. Listen above.
You may want to reconsider lining up after you digest what vaccine expert and top lawyer Mr. Kennedy shares with Paine about the vaccines. The revelations are truly alarming.
Podcast --
truepundit.com
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. revealed to Thomas Paine that he personally warned Dr. Anthony Fauci and the FDA commissioner about dangerous problems with the COVID vaccine but those warnings fell on deaf government ears. In fact, shockingly — they were ignored.
Mr. Kennedy, a vaccine expert and top lawyer, joined the Thomas Paine Podcast to drop repeated bombshell warnings to all Americans contemplating the vaccine. The same warnings that the government essentially covered up. Listen above.
You may want to reconsider lining up after you digest what vaccine expert and top lawyer Mr. Kennedy shares with Paine about the vaccines. The revelations are truly alarming.
Podcast --
EXCLUSIVE -- Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Blows Whistle: Fauci & FDA Commish Ignored Warnings About Dangerous Problems With COVID Vaccines – True Pundit
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. revealed to Thomas Paine that he personally warned Dr. Anthony Fauci and the FDA commissioner about dangerous problems with the COVID vaccine but those warnings fell on deaf government ears. In fact, shockingly — they were ignored. Listen above. Mr. Kennedy, a vaccine...
truepundit.com
Goemon_
The Living Force
I have another recent example.
I went to a small local organic shop. I put on my mask (under my noze, that seems to be ok with most people), I follow the arrows and get in the queue at the check.
Here I observe an old guys talking to the cashier, mask under is mouth for at least 5 minutes.
The old guys finally get out. Now I am left alone with the cashier. Deside to remove my mask, hanging on my right ear. I am immediately told to put it on (which I do).
For some reason I don't mention what I just witnessed. I just go with something like "come on, there is nobody here", then:
The cashier: Well, I'm here, I'm seeing people all day long...
Me: ah ! ok, you believe all the TV lies.
There may be a logical explanation: the cashier didn't noticed the old guy putting is mask under is mouth. I am more akin to think that if the mask is near the mouth it is still reassuring for some propaganda believers.
So, I was a bit upset by the cashier reaction and was dealing with it by a jovial attitude.
The cashier seems to be upset by my attitude and to be dealing with it by talking as less as possible.
Oh ! and I forget to mention that just before I removed my mask the cashier was washing is hands with the hydroalcoolic stuff.
So when He got near the salami I reacted:
Me: so, now you will touch my food with your hands full of this hydroalcoolic stuff ?!
The cashier: No, I will put on some glove. (then he was looking for glove, didn't find any)
Me: that's ok, I will eat a bit of your soap.
He finally catched the salami with a plastic bag.
On another note:
As others have mention, France is out of the second lockdown, into a curfew. The new thing is that now we are encouraged to auto-lockdown until Christmas to avoid contamination at Christmas.
While protesting the lock-downs, we should also demand that all politicians, advisers, police, and enforcers should go without pay too during the lock-down. If they believe in the effectiveness of the lock-down than they should join us in solidarity without pay. This demand should be the loudest and will expose their hypocrisy as well.
Vacuna de Pfizer: 1era. reacción alérgica grave en EEUU. Trabajadora de la salud hospitalizada
Una trabajadora sanitaria de Alaska (EEUU) sufrió una grave reacción alérgica luego de haber recibido el martes la vacuna de Pfizer-BioNTech contra el COVID-19 y debió ser hospitalizada.
kontrainfo.com
Translated: Google Translate
Pfizer Vaccine: 1st severe allergic reaction in the U.S. Hospitalized health care worker.
BEHOLD! I bring you Good Tidings of Great Joy - the END is Near!! > Gov. DeWine
Yes, Ohio started vaccinating its first workers on Monday which 'starts the process toward the end' - "what many see as the beginning of the end of the deadly pandemic."
The OSU Wexner Medical Center "immunized about 30 high-risk front-line health care workers Monday morning. One of them was Dr. Meghana Moondabagil, a resident physician in emergency and internal medicine. Moondabagil knew she would get the first dose of the two-shot vaccine on Monday, but she didn't know walking into work that she would be one of the very first in Ohio and the nation."
And so it's begun. Pity the fools who have put their faith in these vaccines - that it will put an end to the pandemic and bring back a state of normalcy. Like lambs to slaughter, they are completely clueless as to how horrific it is all going to be. And I guess that's the point. The ninnies will have to feel the pain to the extreme before they finally get it. It's certainly obvious that way too many are absorbing every lie being propagated.
Meanwhile, my son-in-law became ill and was diagnosed with Covid. His worst symptom was terrible headache - his doctor treated with steroids. Unsurprisingly, my daughter also tested positive with Covid - her symptoms were more in line with a cold or flu. Neither was hospitalized. It did sideline her from work and as she didn't have the necessary equipment to work from home, she's doing without pay.
Three of our friends who we had over for a holiday gettogether also recently had Covid - symptoms were flu-like and no hospitalization. The one had had a flu shot - I said that's why he got Covid.
He and his wife are not buying the hype or that the health dictates are at all necessary - and they certainly didn't work for them! But, we are clearly the minority. It was the first time we had socialized for many months and it was most enjoyable even though the OSU football game against Michigan had been cancelled - due to Covid!
Doing my best to take it all in stride and to enjoy as much as possible all things Christmas. No doubt 2021 will be a colossal nightmare on many fronts. Just have to wait and see how it all plays out.
Yes, Ohio started vaccinating its first workers on Monday which 'starts the process toward the end' - "what many see as the beginning of the end of the deadly pandemic."
The OSU Wexner Medical Center "immunized about 30 high-risk front-line health care workers Monday morning. One of them was Dr. Meghana Moondabagil, a resident physician in emergency and internal medicine. Moondabagil knew she would get the first dose of the two-shot vaccine on Monday, but she didn't know walking into work that she would be one of the very first in Ohio and the nation."
And so it's begun. Pity the fools who have put their faith in these vaccines - that it will put an end to the pandemic and bring back a state of normalcy. Like lambs to slaughter, they are completely clueless as to how horrific it is all going to be. And I guess that's the point. The ninnies will have to feel the pain to the extreme before they finally get it. It's certainly obvious that way too many are absorbing every lie being propagated.
Meanwhile, my son-in-law became ill and was diagnosed with Covid. His worst symptom was terrible headache - his doctor treated with steroids. Unsurprisingly, my daughter also tested positive with Covid - her symptoms were more in line with a cold or flu. Neither was hospitalized. It did sideline her from work and as she didn't have the necessary equipment to work from home, she's doing without pay.
Three of our friends who we had over for a holiday gettogether also recently had Covid - symptoms were flu-like and no hospitalization. The one had had a flu shot - I said that's why he got Covid.
He and his wife are not buying the hype or that the health dictates are at all necessary - and they certainly didn't work for them! But, we are clearly the minority. It was the first time we had socialized for many months and it was most enjoyable even though the OSU football game against Michigan had been cancelled - due to Covid!Doing my best to take it all in stride and to enjoy as much as possible all things Christmas. No doubt 2021 will be a colossal nightmare on many fronts. Just have to wait and see how it all plays out.
There should be a US law that gives her some pay while she gets over Covid.
More vaccine injuries:
www.nytimes.com
They try to downplay it, people's willingness to get the vax is getting weaker by the day. With such stories, this will only continue, and even many die-hard Covid believers will be very reluctant.
In other words, they won't be able to pull it off. This whole thing is just too messy. Then again, they have the perfect excuse for never-ending lockdowns.
2 Alaska Health Workers Got Emergency Treatment After Receiving Pfizer’s Vaccine (Published 2020)
One of the workers, who did not have a history of allergies, remained in the hospital on Wednesday night. Some reactions to the vaccine were also reported last week in Britain.
They try to downplay it, people's willingness to get the vax is getting weaker by the day. With such stories, this will only continue, and even many die-hard Covid believers will be very reluctant.
In other words, they won't be able to pull it off. This whole thing is just too messy. Then again, they have the perfect excuse for never-ending lockdowns.
