In such situations, I think it's a good idea to be very "soft" on people. If you love your partner, you must allow him/her to come to their own conclusions and give them time. The Cs said that things in our realm take time - this goes for everything. You can gently express your doubts ("What I don't understand is that the death numbers are so low - maybe they will rise quickly? I'm not sure" etc.). Also, this is the time to work on relationships, being generous on how we interpret others' intentions, enjoying a good time together... Notice that the better and deeper our relationships, the more they can tolerate the odd quarrel and discord over what's happening. Be excellent to each other!

i appreciate the kind advice luc and have to agree with allowing her to come to her own conclusions. i can't deny the fact that i get excited when i come across some new info and want to share it sooo bad. she has never judged me or shamed me so for that i'm grateful. i will keep this all in mind when i am getting too excited and have the strongest urge to share it.. but there's always a time and place. thanks for the reminder brother.

I've found over the years that sharing what you learn here with the people in your life is a tricky thing. If you're here long enough you may be surprised by how people seem to suddenly change when big events like this come up. Someone who has seemed to be a critical thinker for many years can seem to suddenly lose all capacity for reason and may even become hostile towards you if you question their beliefs. Its natural to want to share what you learn with people that you care about but take it slow. In times like these it is sometimes better to just watch and listen and witness their experience. When people are really afraid they are less likely to be open to new information. Sometimes just being there for them is enough.

i appreciate that a lot bud. you and luc have reminded me of conclusions i've come to in the past.. but ever since this absurdity began, i have not felt so tired anymore and have been learning so much.. it's lead to excitement and i feel it well up inside of me.. i end up just blurting it out. for someone who has been told by many people how quiet he is, you'd think i could hold my tongue at times haha.

i know i am not the only one who is/has/will feel this way. it is passing though and i feel myself straightening out. anyways this thread is about covid so that's about all i got left. luc, séamas, thanks brothers.

much love
 
@goyacobol
DNR stands for Do Not Resurcitate
DNR stands for Do Not Resuscitate. from Wikipedia,
Do Not Resuscitate (DNR), also known as no code or allow natural death, is a legal order, written or oral depending on country, indicating that a person does not want to receive cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) if that person's heart stops beating.[1]Sometimes it also prevents other medical interventions.[2] The legal status and processes surrounding DNR orders vary from country to country. Most commonly, the order is placed by a physician based on a combination of medical judgement and patient wishes and values.[3]

DNV by analogy would be Do Not Vaccinate.
While I cannot comment on the medical judgement side, I was wondering whether a Do Not Vaccinate wish for oneself could be valid based on respect to your personal values? Well the more I think about it the more society based arguments come creeping in so it might be a question without a practical answer.
 
Basically said, a pathogen that increases or enhances hypnotic effects.

I don't know if we can assume it is exactly a hypnotic effect but probably weakening us to make us more controllable whatever the mechanism may be.

The Cs are saying the virus itself is creating the opposite effect they were expecting in some making them more open to Cosmic STO influence so maybe it is the new vaccination being created that they think could have that "hypnotic" effect or just neutralize their original virus "creation". But their new vaccination could also be a fiasco hopefully.
DNR stands for Do Not Resuscitate. from Wikipedia,
Do Not Resuscitate (DNR), also known as no code or allow natural death, is a legal order, written or oral depending on country, indicating that a person does not want to receive cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) if that person's heart stops beating.[1]Sometimes it also prevents other medical interventions.[2] The legal status and processes surrounding DNR orders vary from country to country. Most commonly, the order is placed by a physician based on a combination of medical judgement and patient wishes and values.[3]

DNV by analogy would be Do Not Vaccinate.
While I cannot comment on the medical judgement side, I was wondering whether a Do Not Vaccinate wish for oneself could be valid based on respect to your personal values? Well the more I think about it the more society based arguments come creeping in so it might be a question without a practical answer.

I see your logic but the authorities would probably say that's fine for you but we are protecting those around you from contracting the disease. They don't give much room to refuse vaccinations or any room to refuse. It's insidiously clever.

Considering the possibility of mandatory vaccinations I am thinking that if worse comes to worst and we might be better off to consider the Immunologic adjuvants part of vaccinations. I was so upset about mandatory vaccinations I emailed all of my state congressmen about the risks and dangers of vaccinations but it did not prevent a bill going through that denies even an opposition based on religious/moral basis.

Our forum does provide health advice on such things as Iodine and other de-tox solutions for toxins contained in the adjuvants.
 
Rapid tests are being implemented by some governments, including the local one where I will be on shift for 10 days starting from tomorrow. However, a former school mate who is a virologist, shared the following study:


Findings: Among 173 patients, the seroconversion rate for Ab, IgM and IgG was 93.1% (161/173), 82.7% (143/173) and 64.7% (112/173), respectively. Twelve patients who had not seroconverted were those only blood samples at the early stage of illness were collected. The seroconversion sequentially appeared for Ab [antibodies], IgM and then IgG, with a median time of 11, 12 and 14 days, respectively. The presence of antibodies was < 40% among patients in the first 7 days of illness, and then rapidly increased to 100.0%, 94.3% and 79.8% for Ab, IgM and IgG respectively since day 15 after onset. In contrast, the positive rate of RNA decreased from 66.7% (58/87) in samples collected before day 7 to 45.5% (25/55) during days 15 to 39. Combining RNA and antibody detections significantly improved the sensitivity of pathogenic diagnosis for COVID-19 patients (p < 0.001), even in early phase of 1-week since onset (p = 0.007). Moreover, a higher titer of Ab was independently associated with a worse clinical classification (p = 0.006).

The obvious interpretation:

"Therefore, quick tests to measure the presence of IgM or IgG antibodies against COVID-19 are not useful for the detection of acute cases. They will be useful only if performed in conjunction with RT-PCR [genetic tests] or for epidemiological purposes to determine asymptomatic or mild cases."

So rapid tests are not useful for acute cases and PCR/genetic tests are not being systemically done to all respiratory cases due to the "national emergency". So as I mentioned earlier, the majority of statistical reports could be either inflated and/or not specifying if the person died WITH or DUE to COVID-19.
 
BoJo has just given this speech:


In short, Brits are only going to be allowed to leave their houses for the following:

- To shop for food and basic necessities
- Exercise once per day
- Any medical need
- Travelling to and from work


If they are caught doing otherwise, they may be fined by the police. They have basically shut down all businesses etc for the next 3 weeks.

I can't believe my eyes and ears. The comedy show is beginning to turn into a horror movie!
Can they go out with dogs?
 
Hah ... the elites make good use of the pandemic to create a cashless society
(article in Russian translation may not be accurate)
Quarantine in Ukraine: people can be left without cash
The National Bank has proposed transferring all government payments to non-cash form

Due to coronavirus, quarantine in Ukraine was introduced in Ukraine from March 12, tentatively until April 3. For this period, the National Bank of Ukraine proposed to transfer government payments to cashless payments. NBU with this idea will appeal to the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine and local authorities.

The National Bank offers "the transfer of all organizations, enterprises, individuals - recipients of cash assistance, etc. from state and local budgets - to receive wages, pensions, social benefits, subsidies and other cash payments and subventions for payment exclusively in non-cash form to bank accounts with bank cards open to them. "

"Cash can potentially be a carrier of the virus, and traveling to receive wages, pensions, social benefits, subsidies and other cash payments may endanger you," the NBU said.
 
So here we are! I woke up in Orwell's dystopia announced last night by chief psychopath and I feel sad but also a little exited.

I was kid in early 80's during martial low in Poland but I remember lots of things from that time, including atmosphere in our home. One thing that came to my mind straight after yesterday's BoJo show was resistor.
resistor.jpg
Some members of my family didn't go out without one pinned to their clothes. In was then a sophisticated way of declaring resistance on one's spirit level. I can imagine that such small gestures where giving people some satisfaction in pervasive helplessness their lived in. I hope we'll witness something similar this time as well.

When I read Orwell's "1984" I had lots of very realistic "flashbacks" which I then attributed to my family's recollections. Maybe they were partly originating from our times? FWIW
 
Indeed ! I'm sorry, I just read other articles saying that they will authorize it only for people with really bad conditions. But why only for this type of people ? Everyone should benefit from this treatment because it shows a huge efficiency, I find that sad.
I agree with you and I find it really sad too.
I think it's about money, for them it's only that that matters.
 
I keep scratching my head if this is just a bad dream or reality. We know the sad answer by now.

As many of you I guess I‘m finding myself currently switching back and forth between sadness, disbelief, worrying, anger, exhaustion, depression and small doses of ecstasy on and ongoing basis. And in the face of it all the actual challenge/mission must be to be the best person you can possibly be, both at home and outside in zombie world. I feel a lot like people are sleepwalking right into disaster and actually asking for it currently. Hard to not feel sad and depressed about it. Maybe one of the big „carmic lessons“ right now is to realize that you are not in the position to alter lessons that need to be learned. Free will.

I think we really need to find a way to „sit back and enjoy the show“ constantly now even though that is a lot harder done than said. I would recommend everyone to meditate at least once a day for at least ten minutes. It makes a huge difference if you stick to it.
I can't believe my eyes and ears. The comedy show is beginning to turn into a horror movie!

Same here. It is becoming a horror movie. Since Sunday we are having a curfew from 21:00 to 6:00 am. But the zombies started to scream again that people can walk all day free. So from Today the separated people by age. These are the new measures

People older than 67 can only go out from 5:00 am to 11:00 am
People younger than 18 must stay at home from 21:00 to 12:00 the next day.
For all others, the curfew is from 21:00 to 5:00 am

And as I can see the zombies are so happy with this but they want now complete 24-hour curfew. I think if they give the authorization to shoot anyone that is suspicious to them, they will do it. Full Nazi creatures and propaganda go live now.

Army and police will secure all government facilities.
This last measure is obviously not meant to protect anybody or anything from the virus. They are afraid of people.

Very soon we will have a full lockdown here, and that will probably be the final blow on this fragile economy.

As I read some news, China experts in Serbia were proposing a full lockdown as it was done in Wuhan, and if Serbia starts with that, in a few days we will also have the same type of lockdown.

As many of you have said, it is very hard to control emotions. 24h propaganda on all national TV stations.
I am trying to keep my psychic hygiene at a high level. Don't watch those channels, I removed all pages, groups, and individuals from my FB page, that were brainwashed zombies while at the same time I try to share the truth about all this.
Sometimes, especially when I came home from work and I can't go out I feel depressed and angry but I am doing my best to not let those emotions become dominant.

The show goes on.

And I have to add this. One cargo plane landed yesterday at Skopje airport. The airport is closed but this plane landed anyway.
The plane departed from Vienna, Austria and to Vienna, he came from Birmingham-UK. From Skopje then it went to Zagreb.

According to this article
( which is translated with google translate ) the plane is a Hungarian property and it is a cargo plane. The company is known for cash transfer with their planes.
Something is going on in the background while they are scaring people to stay at home.
 
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Updated measurements as of this evening in the Netherlands - the Dutch PM is calling this an 'intelligent lockdown':

- Meetings are forbidden until June 1st (most measurements will last until June 1st if I understood correctly, though it can change again)
- Fines are given if the rules aren't followed (max 400 E for individuals and 4000 E for businesses)
- Mayors of each city will decide if certain areas will become forbidden (such as beaches or markets)
- Enforcers (I think that's what they're called) will be patrolling (though this was not so clear to me)
- When one family member is sick, the whole family needs to stay at home, unless one of them needs to buy groceries
- Only one person is allowed to do the groceries
- Clothing stores are still open, but if they don't adhere to the rules, they'd have to close and pay a fine (4k)
- People can still go outside for a walk, but preferably alone or otherwise with max 2 people as long as they keep a 1.5m distance
- For schools, other rules apply, they are not known yet (it's not known whether schools will open on April 6th or not)
- Unknown yet whether restaurants can open or not on April 6th

Bizarro World!

I can see how it is intelligent - it's not the government pushing for it. It's the people asking for it after the scare tactics.

The 1,5 meter distance rule was in place this weekend and people flocked to parks/beaches/nature. The people who stayed at home took to social media, and even some 'experts on TV' expressed the government does too little! there should be a total lockdown!


Also, given the story about 'strange pneumonia' being around in Lombardy, Italy since november (so before the China breakout) - I'm in the Netherlands and this is anecdotal, but I am remembered of two of my colleagues who both had pneumonia in november & the second since december. They share an office space.
Both experienced the same problems with recovery: the treatment they were given did not help (antibiotics). One of them recovered after taking about 6 weeks of rest. The other is also a diabetes patient and he only recovered recently, he was battling this on and off for almost 3,5 months.

Thanks everyone for this thread, I'm learning a lot. Wish everyone good luck with these restrictions being put everywhere.
 
Here is a small update from NRW, Germany
NRW issues a catalog of fines for violations of corona rules
Düsseldorf The state of North Rhine-Westphalia wants to punish violations of the nationwide corona rules with high fines. Prohibited picnics, hygiene violations and the like can therefore become really expensive.

North Rhine-Westphalia has issued a catalog of fines for violations of the nationwide corona rules with fines of up to 5000 euros. In the event of repetition, up to EUR 25,000 will be charged. The decree, which, according to dpa information, was sent to the responsible authorities on Monday evening, is before the German Press Agency.

For meetings of more than two people in public who are not directly related, 200 euros will be due by everyone involved. Forbidden picnics cost 250 euros per participant. Those who organize sporting events despite the ban pay 1000 euros. The consumption of meals outside the house closer than 50 meters to the restaurant or snack bar costs 200 euros. Additional fines are possible against companies that benefit from violations. Hygiene violations or violations of the ban on visits to facilities such as old people's homes are also becoming more expensive. The “Bild” newspaper had initially reported on the draft decree.

NRW Prime Minister Armin Laschet (CDU) said about the current measures and the catalog of fines: “The situation is serious. It's about life and death. The strict ban on contact will certainly help to quickly reduce the risk of infection. ” Laschet emphasized:“ Fortunately, most people stick to the rules and show solidarity. We don't have to monitor the sensible, we have to punish the senseless. Consistently and hard. The signals have to arrive. "

The zero tolerance principle was successfully introduced in North Rhine-Westphalia in combating crimes such as clan crime. "Zero tolerance also applies to lawbreakers in the fight against the corona virus," said Laschet.

Here is also list of what is allowed and what is not
No contact
NRW prohibits meetings of three or more people in public. Families and people living in a household are exempt from the ban. Wherever possible, a minimum distance of at least 1.5 meters must be kept from other people than those mentioned.
The way to work, emergency care, shopping, visits to the doctor, participation in meetings, necessary appointments and exams, help for other or individual sports and exercise in the fresh air and other necessary activities remain possible.

Curfews
There is therefore no complete curfew. The state government believes that an exit ban is at most another means of containing the coronavirus if people do not follow the call to keep social contacts to a minimum. Such a measure could also not be decided by a country alone, but only in consultation with the federal government and the other federal states, said Laschet on Tuesday.

Gastronomy
By law, all restaurants and inns are closed until at least April 19. This does not apply to the delivery and collection of meals for consumption at home.

Retail trade
Until further notice, grocery stores are also allowed to open on Sundays and public holidays from 1 p.m. to 6 p.m. to ensure supplies - Easter is the exception. This also applies to weekly markets, delivery services, pharmacies and wholesale shops. However, stores must ensure proper hygiene and avoid queuing by controlling access.

Celebrations
Groups of people celebrating in public places, in apartments and private institutions are unacceptable. Violations of the contact restrictions should be monitored by the regulatory authorities and the police and sanctioned in the event of violations.

Leisure and culture
All pubs, bars, cafes, clubs, discos, arcades and casinos must close. Cultural life also stands still: theaters, cinemas, museums are obliged to close. You also need to stay at gyms, saunas, swimming pools. Training in sports clubs or meetings in other leisure facilities fall flat. Music or folk high schools or other non-school learning venues must also remain closed. No people should come together outdoors: All playgrounds and football fields will be blocked from Wednesday. Leisure and animal parks have to close.

Service companies in the field of personal care
Hairdressers, beauty salons, massage practices, tattoo studios and similar businesses are closed because physical proximity is essential in this area. Medically necessary treatments remain possible.

Services
The churches and religious communities have committed to cancel their services, prayers and other gatherings. As long as the faithful stick to it, the state government sees no need to issue an official ban.

Educational institutions
For the time being, there will be no lessons in the schools until the end of the Easter holidays. Daycare centers and day care facilities are also closed - exceptions only apply to parents whose professional activity is essential for the functioning of the critical infrastructure and who can demonstrate that they have no other childcare options.
School Minister Yvonne Gebauer (FDP) called on teachers to provide students with tasks and learning material as digitally as possible. Flexible regulations and follow-up dates are intended to ensure that the Abitur exams can take place. The start of lectures at universities was also postponed until the end of the Easter holidays. Refectories are no longer open to the public, but are allowed to supply the staff.

Local transport
The S-Bahn, regional trains and buses roll, but in limited operation. People are also asked to avoid unnecessary journeys. Those who can should only travel after 9:00 p.m. to reserve the rush hours for commuters whose jobs are necessary to maintain the critical infrastructure.

Old people's and nursing homes
Visits to old people's and nursing homes in NRW are only permitted in urgent exceptional cases. Entering the nursing homes for returning travelers is completely prohibited. They are also prohibited from visiting hospitals or universities 14 days after their return.

The borders shared with the Netherlands and Belgium should not be closed, but should only be checked more closely. It is important not to hinder delivery traffic in particular, the state government said. In any case, unnecessary trips abroad should not take place according to the Chancellor's will.

Political events
According to Laschet, the democratic parties have agreed to suspend all political events until the end of the Easter vacation. This also applies to the list of municipal elections. So far, the country is holding on to the election date on September 13. Required legislative proposals by the state parliament are also to be pushed ahead.

****

I went yesterday to the local REWE store. It was a nice walk in the bright sun some 10-15mins.
There was no one out in the neighborhood, not even in their own backyards. I found this shocking because I know how many children live around us and they have houses with gardens - but no body was out! I saw only 2 elderly people watering their lawn.....

As I came to the shop there was quite a lot people there - I mean, not unlikely any other day before this.
I saw only 2 people wearing masks, one elderly woman and one man.
In the stores are plastic or glass "windows" installed between the cash-register and the customers.

There are no soaps and pasta. On soap shelves is a sign for customers to please take only one.
Not sure about toilette paper - I wasn´t in that row :)
People were trying to keep at least 1m distance.

At one point as I was walking towards the shop, there was an elderly woman coming towards me. When I was about 3m from her, she glued herself with her back to the wall - it looked like she´s about to get arrested :-D

So, all in all, it was a nice walk. :-)
 
I can't believe my eyes and ears. The comedy show is beginning to turn into a horror movie!

It is, but in a way I am relieved that it is out in the open now. for anyone with heightened awareness. And perhaps it is easier for people like me to comprehend what's going on, belonging to the first generations born after WWII when people still talked and thought about it. My primary school teacher read a few books to us dealing with the impact of it and I am now forever grateful that she gave us some historical perspective.

Having had to deal with government institutions in Holland also made me realise that fascism never really left us, and I have certainly felt that boot on my face.

My maternal family survived the Japanese concentration camps in Indonesia and my paternal grand-father survived a post-war concentration camp. It may sound strange, but now I am glad and grateful for having these experiences which played such a big role in my life.

Thank you for helping me fine-tune my thoughts, Keyhole. :flowers:
 
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