James Corbett weighs in on Coronavirus and the problems with case numbers

Yep, Corbett's report was very good. The only thing I'm not sure about is related to the spike of around 15,000 cases. I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I read that China only changed its diagnostic criteria for that single day or so, and then reverted to using blood tests to (presumably) test for the actual virus. So while it's true that those in the spike hadn't actually been tested, I'm pretty sure all the cases before and after were. Of course, even that isn't a sure thing, as you point out (false negatives and positives) - the reliability of the test itself has to be taken into account.

Yes, perhaps it was just that one day; it's unclear.

Let's say it was as James reported re the new one day new diagnostic systems of CT Scans. This resulted in that reported spike of 15,000 cases in a 24 hour period. So, at 0.5 hours per scan (read that as an avg), that is 312 CT scanners humming along for 24 hours (and the diagnostic technicians to provide the positive Coronavirus cases, tabulate and report). :whistle:

To be fair, with speedy patient care arrangements, China has the capacity as at 2015 to lower the number:

The numbers of CT and MRI scanners in secondary and tertiary hospitals in China were 12,888 and 6762 respectively in 2015 according to statistics from the Chinese Medical Doctor Association (CMDA).

All the same, those were funny reported diagnostic positive readings, though.
 
The longer this obvious craziness continues the more I'm leaning towards the idea that the Powers-To-Be (at least in western countries) are ruthlessly using this "non-issue" as an excuse to test out how far they can go in controlling, scaring and managing people. A dry run, so to say. Sadly, so far it seems to work out just fine. It is actually kind of scary how good it seems to work out. The C's phrase "the programming is complete" comes to my mind regularly recently.

I mean, if that Virus would even slightly approach other mundane Viruses/Infections/Illnesses or Pandemics in terms of numbers and effects, I could sort of understand why so many fall for it, go crazy about it and say "yes" to everything that those on top demand as "counter measure"; but this one is so very obviously (in your face!) hugely over hyped in every way you look at it, that you really have to wonder about the state of our society as a whole.

If people can be so easily panicked by a non-issue like that and say "yes" to all the measures implemented by our "benevolent leaders", how do you think they would react if the PTB really step up the game and demand more outrages stuff? I'm afraid that our society has seldom before been as susceptible (and willing to follow) authoritarian nonsense by Psychopaths as today, globally speaking.

This all leaves a very bad taste in my mouth, to say the least. Doesn't look good IMO. Brave new world.

You've read my mind Pashalis, I had the same thoughts. Though on a different note I was thinking that this whole coronavirus situation may be a great opportunity for the people to see what's really going on here and act and make a choice, to let themselves be manipulated and fall under the control of the entropy or open their eyes and have an objective glimpse at the reality. Had this thought in my mind recently...
 
Yesterday in Poland before midnight a new law was adopted introducing mandatory hospitalization, the possibility of introducing mandatory quarantine for everyone, even if the person is not sick for 21 days, if someone refuses the mandatory treatment, it can be done by force or even the army. The Minister of Health can order, by means of an administrative decision, the takeover of any products for fighting the virus for the benefit of the State Treasury. The government can also limit the activities of private companies in the affected areas and introduce rationing of certain goods. The new law also provides for draconian penalties for pharmaceutical wholesalers who try to sell medical devices classified as strategic, in the event of a possible epidemic (not even the epidemic itself!) the army may be placed under the command of sanitary inspectors.
I am extremely affected by this news, Marek, even if I see what is coming.
 
You've read my mind Pashalis, I had the same thoughts. Though on a different note I was thinking that this whole coronavirus situation may be a great opportunity for the people to see what's really going on here and act and make a choice, to let themselves be manipulated and fall under the control of the entropy or open their eyes and have an objective glimpse at the reality. Had this thought in my mind recently...
People will start to see what is happening, think by themselves when they will put the tv in the garbage.
 
Good analysis, but bear in mind that the cruise ship population largely comprised the oldest age brackets, and thus the cohort most susceptible to this virus. If that sample reflected the population distribution in most countries, the number of those presenting symptoms and dying would be lower.

Then we have to factor in cases where people tested negative for SARS-Cov-2 (the virus) one day, and positive the next day - while remaining apparently free of COVID-19 (the disease) throughout. False positives, false negatives... why and when a virus activates or not... we really know so little about them and what they do when interacting with the human genome.

I mean, the first COVID-19 case in Europe and France was confirmed in Bordeaux on January 24th, 6 weeks ago. Bordeaux is just a two-hour drive away from us; we're smack in the middle of a transportation corridor between two major French cities.

If France is only now starting to think about maybe cancelling events at which large crowds gather, along with other 'containment measures', what do we imagine this virus has been doing in Bordeaux in the meantime? Sitting tight?! Waiting for the opportune moment?? Some of us have been to Bordeaux in the meantime - to a hospital! (for a friend)


Those are our thoughts on it. The numbers, even in highly monitored, controlled environments, are inherently unreliable.
The test accuracy is 30-50% means today you got it, tomorrow not...and next tuesday its back... ;)
 
This is a testimony or interview with a centenarian, Mrs. Edna Register Boone on her experience with the pandemic of 1918.
Thank you for this!

What I noticed is how from her story, the disease drawn the whole town closer together, people trying to help each other not because they have to but because it was a human thing to do.

Look at the situation today, completely reversed. People pretty much lynch infected ones, let alone they help them or bring food....

How the "hunt" for an infected girl began
.....
The Martyrs of Liberty square in Curtarol, Veneto, the province most affected by coronavirus after Lombardy, is empty, and the Shanti café next to City Hall is closed. In the sports center, only father and son play football. A tragedy happened in this small town 15 kilometers away from Padua.

On Valentine's Day, 16 former soldiers met at the Alpine headquarters (Army Order). Seven of them were coronavirus positive after that dinner. The health of the 67-year-old, who was hospitalized in Padua, is the most serious.

Members of his family were also screened.
The granddaughter, who is eight years old and goes to school in Limeni but lives in Curtarol, also tested positive for COVID-19, although she had no symptoms. Her mother and father were negative.
On the second day of the morning, a message was issued informing Mayor Martin Rocchio that three people were positive for the coronavirus, including a girl.
In the blink of an eye, her name and photos were published on all social networks.

After each chat the news of it spread like circles in the sea when a stone was thrown. In addition to photographs of that girl, some also took photographs of her class, others photographs of her family, grandfather…

A real “hunt” for this eight-year-old girl has began. The first one noticed what is happening was Limena City Mayor Stefano Tonazzo, a friend of the girl's father, and informed him about it.
The news of a girl who was positive for coronavirus but had no symptoms also came out on the pages of one portal. Tonazzo called Chief Curtarol and told her what she had done. Martina Rocchio knew nothing about it.

She immediately called the girl's father's friend and asked him if he wanted to send a city guard to his house, as journalists and those who were raving about the girl in his house were already surrounded by her, as if they wanted to lynch her. The whole family is in self-isolation, and there are those who call them over the phone and over the phone and harass.

"No thanks, with the guard at the door, we would be even more labeled as being plague victims," the girl's father, the mayor's father, replied, but then also filed a privacy complaint. He said everything turned into a witch hunt and hatred of an innocent girl. "We feel attacked and threatened by violence. I wonder what kind of people they can do, ”he said.

He explained to his daughter that the coronavirus under the microscope resembles a wreath of flowers with many small red petals.

"I told her not to be scared and worried and that these 'flowers' would do her no harm," said the worried father, not only for his girlfriend's health but also for accepting her at school when she passed. In addition, he is worried about his father, the girl's grandfather, who is currently in intensive care.

That's why patients' names should not be published.
 
Thank you for this!

What I noticed is how from her story, the disease drawn the whole town closer together, people trying to help each other not because they have to but because it was a human thing to do.

Look at the situation today, completely reversed. People pretty much lynch infected ones, let alone they help them or bring food....
Today I read two horrific stories: Marek with the law his country passed and now this one. This last story about the young girl reminds me the obscurity of the Middle Ages, the ignorance of people, how nasty one can become during war times. Because it is like war in the middle ages we are living, war made people with a Middle age mentality: obscurantism, fear, terror, etc. Really... today I feel very sad to see the road humanity is taking, and sorry for the rant but you are the only ones who understand.
 
The Washington state governor, has “recommended”, that the 2.2M residents of Kings county (that’s where Seattle is) should work from home, and people over 60 y/o “urged” stay inside.

The governor of Oregon, after getting the first “confirmed” by the CDC case of C-virus, has asked the Federal Government for 7 – 10 M dollars a month for assistance. (There’s a money train to this)

3 states have declared states of emergency: Washington, California, and Florida.

As of yesterday afternoon, my sparsely populated coastal area of Oregon, has be holding its own in staying normal.
 
Chu:

Thank you for clearing up the point about Sodium Bicarbonate. I did know what she meant, but I was fast a loose about writing it, and must make more of an effort to write specifically while writing on an international forum. Especially when discussing what someone is ingesting.

Thanks again
 
There are several strains of this thing going around now!

The case fatality rate in Italy is no joke.

South Korea is struggling big time. They have confirmed 60% of cases there are now from community spread.

10% of Iranian MPs have this thing.

Cases are exploding in Europe.

The US has spread across it.

China is lying.

I'm sorry, but this thing is not coming across as a nothing-bugger. It's coming across as a problem. A big one with the potential for exponential growth.
 
Yeah, I hadn't taken the age factor into account (thanks, Siberia, for finding that chart!). That WILL adjust the mortality and number of cases downward. Not sure by how much - that's beyond my math skills - maybe around a factor of 2 for people getting symptoms? (60-99+ year-olds account for 31% of cases, but make up just 18% of the Chinese population.)

I thought this article was pretty reasonable:


Some excerpts relating to the cruise ship figures (including the CFR I was wondering about):

This is where the Diamond Princess data provides important insight. Of the 3,711 people on board, at least 705 have tested positive for the virus (which, considering the confines, conditions, and how contagious this virus appears to be, is surprisingly low). Of those, more than half are asymptomatic, while very few asymptomatic people were detected in China. This alone suggests a halving of the virus's true fatality rate.

On the Diamond Princess, six deaths have occurred among the passengers, constituting a case fatality rate of 0.85 percent. Unlike the data from China and elsewhere, where sorting out why a patient died is extremely difficult, we can assume that these are excess fatalities — they wouldn't have occurred but for SARS-CoV-2. The most important insight is that all six fatalities occurred in patients who are more than 70 years old. Not a single Diamond Princess patient under age 70 has died. If the numbers from reports out of China had held, the expected number of deaths in those under 70 should have been around four.

The data from the Diamond Princess suggest an eightfold lower mortality amongst patients older than 70 and threefold lower mortality in patients over 80 compared to what was reported in China initially. But even those numbers, 1.1 percent and 4.9 percent respectively, are concerning. But there's another thing that's worth remembering: These patients were likely exposed repeatedly to concentrated viral loads (which can cause worse illness). Some treatments were delayed. So even the lower CFR found on the Diamond Princess could have been even lower, with proper protocols. It's also worth noting that while cruise passengers can be assumed to be healthy enough to travel, they actually tend to reflect the general population, and many patients with chronic illnesses go on cruises. So, the numbers from this ship may be reasonable estimates.

This all suggests that COVID-19 is a relatively benign disease for most young people, and a potentially devastating one for the old and chronically ill, albeit not nearly as risky as reported. Given the low mortality rate among younger patients with coronavirus — zero in children 10 or younger among hundreds of cases in China, and 0.2-0.4 percent in most healthy nongeriatric adults (and this is still before accounting for what is likely to be a high number of undetected asymptomatic cases) — we need to divert our focus away from worrying about preventing systemic spread among healthy people — which is likely either inevitable, or out of our control — and commit most if not all of our resources toward protecting those truly at risk of developing critical illness and even death: everyone over 70, and people who are already at higher risk from this kind of virus.
 
I'm keen to know, if it is new, how do you know it is a non issue?

Keen to know.

Niall pretty much summed up my thinking in that regard.

The case fatality rate in Italy is no joke.

Well, according to this latest article, there are 148 deaths out of a total number of 3,800 cases. Which means the fatality rate is currently at 3,89 % in Italy. Bear in mind though, as has been pointed out before, nobody knows how many people are actually infected in Italy (and elsewhere). Which means that the fatality rate is most likely quite a lot lower than this.

South Korea is struggling big time. They have confirmed 60% of cases there are now from community spread.

10% of Iranian MPs have this thing.

Cases are exploding in Europe.

The US has spread across it.

China is lying.

I'm sorry, but this thing is not coming across as a nothing-bugger. It's coming across as a problem. A big one with the potential for exponential growth.

Well, as of now the actual numbers don't convince me at all that there is a justification/need for panic.

As has been posted before, Corona is still very much low-key in terms of fatality rate compared to others. And there is also hardly any sign of that changing significantly and certainly not exponentially:

5e35c9a75bc79c7e8f421d82.jpeg


Source.
 
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