Creating a New World
- Thread starter Laura
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shellycheval
The Living Force
dannybananny
I agree there most likely are psychopathic persons on our forum who are next to impossible to detect from only their words--like we have heard many times it is "by their actions that you shall know them." So until actions can be observed, like in the case of Esoquest or if we were all out in the woods together, then some smooth talking members with psychopathic behaviors are likely to go unnoticed by all but the more experienced SOTT members.
shellycheval
I agree there most likely are psychopathic persons on our forum who are next to impossible to detect from only their words--like we have heard many times it is "by their actions that you shall know them." So until actions can be observed, like in the case of Esoquest or if we were all out in the woods together, then some smooth talking members with psychopathic behaviors are likely to go unnoticed by all but the more experienced SOTT members.
shellycheval
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
Leo40 said:
I understand, and if you think about it, why would we be figuring out how to create a new world if we weren't the ones who would be doing it? But, as I said, the same issues exist for our group in the forest, whether they're all forum members or not (though there might be some subtle dynamic differences), I was just trying to get your mind turned in a slightly different direction and make it more personal so you'd not throw in the towel so quickly. It seems I've taken things on a bit of a tangent
by doing that, so apologies!
First, I thought like many other that the group of 200 was a random group an not specifically all forum member.
then as Shijjing said:
To that I can only answer that again knowledge protect and that the devil is in the details. So observation is still the first tool at our disposal. ;)
Smallwood
Jedi Master
A thought came to me in relation to the problem of psychopathy these 200 human beings may have. Perhaps they need to have one or two psychopaths around (restrained of course)? To provide a living lesson in just how mind-bending they can be? The up-coming generation would have to have some experience recognizing just how persuasive some of them can be it or else they might not know how to protect themselves in a live event.
Or perhaps the Universe would bless the group with a few pathological kids anyway? It would just seem to me that verbal knowledge might easily be turned into mechanical scripture, if it is not backed by real experiences. Perhaps the Work that the group practises that would be teached to the children would solve that problem?
It's a fascinating thread I must say, and pretty much everything that I can think of for now has been said. I'll return when I have something relevant to say.
Or perhaps the Universe would bless the group with a few pathological kids anyway? It would just seem to me that verbal knowledge might easily be turned into mechanical scripture, if it is not backed by real experiences. Perhaps the Work that the group practises that would be teached to the children would solve that problem?
It's a fascinating thread I must say, and pretty much everything that I can think of for now has been said. I'll return when I have something relevant to say.
shijing
The Living Force
Smallwood said:
A couple thoughts on this -- another assumption I have right now is that outside of our own 200-person community, there are probably other communities elsewhere. Given the percentage of psychopaths in the general population, I think there would be some case studies out there that would be sufficient for real-life lessons without having to 'keep' some psychopaths at home in the camp. This makes me think of Lost (apologies if you haven't seen it -- I myself haven't seen the most recent season yet). Do you know Ben Linus, the arch-antagonist? There have been a couple examples where the main characters kept Ben as a prisoner in one environment or another thinking that they could contain him, but in the end he always ends up messing with their heads, dividing the group, and even getting perks. I think you might be playing with fire if you decided to keep an already-identified psychopath around solely as an object lesson.
Smallwood said:
Interesting view -- maybe not off from the cosmic perspective of learning lessons, but personally, I wouldn't want to be the parent ;)
dannybananny
Jedi Council Member
Then it's even harder to create community without psychopaths because if we are in minority it's better for us to run because psychos will turn other "normal" people against us or wouldn't need to do so because they would think we are crazy saying them the truth or they wouldn't belive that some nice dude is psycho. And you have a new crusade. Divide et impera. If we are majority we stand a chance but not without a conflict. ;)
I don't think that's possible if both parents are with soul(because of genetic material), maybe it would be possible if one parent is with soul and another is OP!
Peam
Jedi Council Member
anart said:I understand, and if you think about it, why would we be figuring out how to create a new world if we weren't the ones who would be doing it? But, as I said, the same issues exist for our group in the forest, whether they're all forum members or not (though there might be some subtle dynamic differences), I was just trying to get your mind turned in a slightly different direction and make it more personal so you'd not throw in the towel so quickly. It seems I've taken things on a bit of a tangent
Yeah. I get the impression from this subject that a part of the C’s/Laura’s ‘mission’ and ultimate aim might be to wake enough people up to this forums concepts and the work, that if or when everything goes belly-up, and there are pockets of survivors here and their across the planet, hopefully there just might be one or two or several people in each survivor group with enough knowledge and awareness of STO concepts so that each group has a better chance of going in an STO direction from the start.
Eventually by the growth and expansion and contact with other groups, a better world, STO in nature, could by made.
This could take a long ‘time’ though. Could this be what the C's meant about the thousand years / millenium? One wouldn't be STO straight away, and it could take longer for some than for others depending on their level of being.
shijing
The Living Force
dannybananny said:
Well, there could be any number of OP's here on the forum for all we know -- we really don't. Not that OP automatically equates with psychopath, which in most cases it doesn't, just to susceptibility to manipulation (or that's my present understanding). Also, we have been told that the soul 'marries to genetics when present', but that implies occasionally that it isn't possible -- meaning that, for all we know, a souled member could carry the genetic potential for psychopathy in their children. So I don't think you can make any absolute assumptions here.
Smallwood
Jedi Master
Well, it would be one way for them to do some community service, if they'd wish to treat them humanely. Then again, a psychopath does have mind directed towards one purpose only - destruction of order. A pretty close guard would have to be kept. Really cunning ones would probably have to be sent into the wilderness immediately when discovered.shijing said:
knowledge_of_self
The Living Force
FWIW, I also did not think this 200 people scenario was specifically forum members. I have to admit, I did think it would be somewhat easier to make this community out of forumites than regular people. Since at the very least, most forumites are familiar with STO/STS concept.
However, thinking about the “psychopath” within the group idea is a bit difficult. Because it comes back to.. ok let’s say you figure out someone in this community is a psychopath. And I’m thinking strictly essential psychopath, because most if not all those 200 people are narcissistic in some way or another, due to their ‘previous’ life outside this community. Let’s say, after “observing” we find out someone or few people are essential psychopaths. We can’t really ‘ban’ him/her/them from this community can we? They will go and make their own community of psychopaths somewhere else and come back and wage war on us, having been found out. And we can’t really kill them, because that’s extreme STS, osit. So it comes back to, what are we supposed to do with these people, once we find out they are amongst us… and I’ve thought long and hard about it, but there is just no simple answer. Because imo, if someone is narcissistic, maybe they wana change themselves, so they should be give more chances through mirroring, etc… And they have the potential to get rid of their narcissism. But if someone is an essential psychopath, i.e. BORN without empathy and hiding within this group… I really don’t know what we can do to get rid of him/her without harming ourselves/the group and our struggle to become an STO society.
Just some thoughts…
However, thinking about the “psychopath” within the group idea is a bit difficult. Because it comes back to.. ok let’s say you figure out someone in this community is a psychopath. And I’m thinking strictly essential psychopath, because most if not all those 200 people are narcissistic in some way or another, due to their ‘previous’ life outside this community. Let’s say, after “observing” we find out someone or few people are essential psychopaths. We can’t really ‘ban’ him/her/them from this community can we? They will go and make their own community of psychopaths somewhere else and come back and wage war on us, having been found out. And we can’t really kill them, because that’s extreme STS, osit. So it comes back to, what are we supposed to do with these people, once we find out they are amongst us… and I’ve thought long and hard about it, but there is just no simple answer. Because imo, if someone is narcissistic, maybe they wana change themselves, so they should be give more chances through mirroring, etc… And they have the potential to get rid of their narcissism. But if someone is an essential psychopath, i.e. BORN without empathy and hiding within this group… I really don’t know what we can do to get rid of him/her without harming ourselves/the group and our struggle to become an STO society.
Just some thoughts…
shijing
The Living Force
Deedlet said:
I agree this is a tough problem -- for now, I tend to think that exile may be the best alternative for the following reasons. First, I agree with you and GotoGo (earlier in this thread) that taking a life should be a last resort at best, if not absolutely prohibited. If sent into exile, its true that we wouldn't know what alleged psychopaths were up to, but there is no reason to believe they would automatically return to attack us. They might -- and if so, we would presumably defend ourselves on the principle that we would 'not be fighting against them, but for our own destiny'. Such a confrontation may be the one acceptable place to kill, if it was in self-defense and not punitive. The prospects of fending off a physical attack from the outside seem a bit better than trying to contain the poison on the inside. This is a difficult problem, though, and the above is merely where I stand for now.
One lesson from the past, and from the fall, is not to underestimate the psychopaths and the entropy masters. We are not necessarily smarter then our STO-aligned "ancestors" (we, luscifer..).
A community must organize, care of each other, but be careful and observe its dynamics with great attention.
What I would suggest maybe is that the psychics and psychologists join the medics. A multilayered care where the spirit is not separated from the body.
Also, such a community must protect from external attacks. Psychic attacks by the psychics (shamans?), and physical by warriors/hunts/engineers. Nobody wants to fight, but in order to protect those you value and love, you must be ready to sacrifice, to give yourself for others.
A 200-persons community must also heal from the trauma that put it into this situation, the work of psychologists and and psychics, as well as any cheerful and careful person. That's no difficult, but it cannot be done outside a family-like ambiance. If you give you're given, but do not take.
Food and water and shelter have been mentioned for physical survival, but keeping warm is also important, and that's an engineers/builders task. How to keep everybody warm, without beathing toxins, without spending too much energy, and without attracting predators?
A community must organize, care of each other, but be careful and observe its dynamics with great attention.
What I would suggest maybe is that the psychics and psychologists join the medics. A multilayered care where the spirit is not separated from the body.
Also, such a community must protect from external attacks. Psychic attacks by the psychics (shamans?), and physical by warriors/hunts/engineers. Nobody wants to fight, but in order to protect those you value and love, you must be ready to sacrifice, to give yourself for others.
A 200-persons community must also heal from the trauma that put it into this situation, the work of psychologists and and psychics, as well as any cheerful and careful person. That's no difficult, but it cannot be done outside a family-like ambiance. If you give you're given, but do not take.
Food and water and shelter have been mentioned for physical survival, but keeping warm is also important, and that's an engineers/builders task. How to keep everybody warm, without beathing toxins, without spending too much energy, and without attracting predators?