Dear Laura, whats going on?

[nature]

Dakota, when you say "Regarding Menna, also there is possibility that he didn't see this post. Maybe you should change the title of the thread to "Dear Menna, what's going on?" " Are you really serious? You want the mods to run after a selfish guy? You really think he doesn't read this thread? Can you envisage the possibility he's laughing behind his screen?

Yes, I can, but I still think that getting the truth and learn from it is much more important than his, eventually, gloat.

This situation is rather common in my everyday situation and I rarely get a chance to actually receive explanation why people did or said something why they did it/say it. Also, it bugs me how easily my point of view could be switch from one point to another. Rarely I could make some conclusion that could resolve the issue that some form of conflict or discussion bring up.

Yes! And here, you won't have the truth. If he was honnest, he won't be absent like that. He's making a remark or a demand and is going away (even if he is busy, because when you say something, you have to assume your statement, be here to give the feedback). Untill you don't have the truth, why apologize or why asking for the others to go and bring him here? If he wants apologies, he must come here and say his intentions.
"This situation is rather common in my everyday situation and I rarely get a chance to actually receive explanation why people did or said something " And you apologize at this stage?
I'm not against apologizing in itself, I disagree to apologize when there is no fault. And here, I don't see anyone beeing insolent with him. Shall people put the red carpet at Menna's feet, being submitted and be very carefull to what they say when they adress to him? We can't speak freely?
If there is one person who must apologize, it's Menna: making an assumption without any clarifying or explaining what is the issue.

 

[tohuwabohu]

What do you call "reacted negative"? Enlighten me and I'll answer to your question, tohuwabohu. (because I've seen nowhere an agressive post against Menna)

Dakota, when you say "Regarding Menna, also there is possibility that he didn't see this post. Maybe you should change the title of the thread to "Dear Menna, what's going on?" " Are you really serious? You want the mods to run after a selfish guy? You really think he doesn't read this thread? Can you envisage the possibility he's laughing behind his screen?

Menna was attacked and beaten on energetic level. Can't you see that nature?

No, I don't see that.
By the way, you don't answer my question, can you show me the post(s) were he "was attacked and beaten"?

edit: quotes

I guess some of us see only what they want to see.

 

[tohuwabohu]

What do you call "reacted negative"? Enlighten me and I'll answer to your question, tohuwabohu. (because I've seen nowhere an agressive post against Menna)

Dakota, when you say "Regarding Menna, also there is possibility that he didn't see this post. Maybe you should change the title of the thread to "Dear Menna, what's going on?" " Are you really serious? You want the mods to run after a selfish guy? You really think he doesn't read this thread? Can you envisage the possibility he's laughing behind his screen?

Menna was attacked and beaten on energetic level. Can't you see that nature?

No, I don't see that.
By the way, you don't answer my question, can you show me the post(s) were he "was attacked and beaten"?

edit: quotes

Try to discover on your own. Read the thread from Menna's post (threads have been merged). See what others say.

 

[Jenn]

What do you call "reacted negative"? Enlighten me and I'll answer to your question, tohuwabohu. (because I've seen nowhere an agressive post against Menna)

Dakota, when you say "Regarding Menna, also there is possibility that he didn't see this post. Maybe you should change the title of the thread to "Dear Menna, what's going on?" " Are you really serious? You want the mods to run after a selfish guy? You really think he doesn't read this thread? Can you envisage the possibility he's laughing behind his screen?

Menna was attacked and beaten on energetic level. Can't you see that nature?

No, I don't see that.
By the way, you don't answer my question, can you show me the post(s) were he "was attacked and beaten"?

edit: quotes

Everyone, try to find alternative answer to Dakota's question: "what would happened if nobody reacted 'negative' on Menna post?" Can you see the alternate reality??? Post here what you see. We are STO we can have fun.

I guess some of us see only what they want to see.

Fwiw making comments like the one bolded above don't help anyone. If you actually want a discussion, as you claim, then it would be helpful and considerate to post examples in order to reduce further misunderstandings.

 

[whitecoast]

What is WRONG with you supermoderators, ambassadors, moderators and whatever. Menna didn't do anything wrong just stated the obvious. Is it a crime? Perhaps you should get in check your selfimportance.
Sorry but feel a little bit cranky myself :P

tohuwabohu, this entire admonition of the mods comes across as quite self-important in and of itself, whatever the reasons others had for criticizing menna. You also say you felt cranky when you responded. That doesn't seem like the best condition under which to give an externally considerate response.

I didn't initiate the attack, they did. The security of the STO community was compromised and thus I have all the right to defend us by any means necessary. And I did that rather gently. This is my home now.

The bolded sentence strikes me as particularly odd, given the context of the exchange. Menna said something. People (including mods) chastised him. Laura said she wasn't offended, and that maybe the censure against menna was unwarranted. People (including mods) came to apologize. Then you show up and ask "what is WRONG with you" (which you saw as "gentle", for some twisted reason). The understanding and consensus has changed since then, and in that context your response was overtly harsh and judgemental and self-important (like I said). Something tells me that you wouldn't have said anything at all had Laura not stepped in and gave her two cents, after which people did change their minds (at least partially). It seems like you were using the gulf in understanding between Laura and some others at the time to lash out at the mods.

We are nearing the end and thus it is pretty much expected that the STS forces will not just sit and wait but they will try to infiltrate and decompose us from the inside by corrupting our values. Be aware of this fact and be vigilant. If in doubt, network. That is what STO does.
I know that we can make mistakes, but we should LEARN from them so that we will never do the same mistake again.
And I am not big fan of excuses and "allowances". Police in the USA is.

Yes, you should learn from your mistakes. When others in this thread were open to the possibility of being in the wrong, they promptly apologized and discussed their reasoning and feelings in simple language. When you were called out, instead of apologizing and trying to simply see what is being pointed out to you, you immediately began spinning narratives about STS/STO and other high-falutin' concepts (making the "excuses and "allowances" you purport to oppose) to justify behavior that comes across as quite human and elementary. Maybe it would be helpful for you to re-read everything you've written and has been said to you as if someone else was writing it instead of yourself.

What do you call "reacted negative"? Enlighten me and I'll answer to your question, tohuwabohu. (because I've seen nowhere an agressive post against Menna)

Dakota, when you say "Regarding Menna, also there is possibility that he didn't see this post. Maybe you should change the title of the thread to "Dear Menna, what's going on?" " Are you really serious? You want the mods to run after a selfish guy? You really think he doesn't read this thread? Can you envisage the possibility he's laughing behind his screen?

Menna was attacked and beaten on energetic level. Can't you see that nature?

No, I don't see that.
By the way, you don't answer my question, can you show me the post(s) were he "was attacked and beaten"?

edit: quotes

Try to discover on your own. Read the thread from Menna's post (threads have been merged). See what others say.

Telling him or her to effectively "go and find it yourself" is just deflection, "excuses and allowances". If you are sincere about wishing to be an STO candidate, one of the most important lessons is learning to give what is asked for openly. nature asked you for specific instances of "attack and beatings". Will you give what is asked for?

Edit: also, what Jenn said.

 

[zak]

What is WRONG with you supermoderators, ambassadors, moderators and whatever. Menna didn't do anything wrong just stated the obvious. Is it a crime? Perhaps you should get in check your selfimportance.
Sorry but feel a little bit cranky myself :P

tohuwabohu, this entire admonition of the mods comes across as quite self-important in and of itself, whatever the reasons others had for criticizing menna. You also say you felt cranky when you responded. That doesn't seem like the best condition under which to give an externally considerate response.

I didn't initiate the attack, they did. The security of the STO community was compromised and thus I have all the right to defend us by any means necessary. And I did that rather gently. This is my home now.
We are nearing the end and thus it is pretty much expected that the STS forces will not just sit and wait but they will try to infiltrate and decompose us from the inside by corrupting our values. Be aware of this fact and be vigilant. If in doubt, network. That is what STO does.
I know that we can make mistakes, but we should LEARN from them so that we will never do the same mistake again.
And I am not big fan of excuses and "allowances". Police in the USA is.

I see that you chose a square STS to enter it in a triangular STS, thinking that it is a circle STO, tohuwabohu !
The security will be less compromised in reading or reading again this:

Good manners are a set of behaviors which mark someone as a civilized and cultured member of a society. Manners are usually taught from a very young age, with some people receiving additional training in etiquette, formal rules of conduct which apply to a variety of situations. Someone who lacks good manners may be considered boorish or inappropriate, and he or she may be at a disadvantage in many social situations.

The precise behaviors involved in good manners vary from place to place. Cultural traditions play an important role in manners, as do religious beliefs, social status, and economic class. What may be good manners in the White House may be considered grossly inappropriate in the Kremlin, while a standard of behavior which is perfectly acceptable in rural Greece might not be considered appropriate in a meeting with the Queen of England. As a general rule, people learn the manners which pertain to their particular social, economic, and cultural situation, and travelers must learn specific rules of conduct to fit in as they visit other societies.

Manners pertain from everything from how to introduce people to how to eat. While the precise nature of good manners may vary, the underlying principles do not. Good manners involve treating people with respect and courtesy, and in making sure that other people feel comfortable in a variety of situations. The old Biblical rule of “do as you would be done by” is sometimes used as an illustration of how manners are supposed to work.

Someone who has been properly trained will usually show more respect and deference to people who are older, as well as people who hold senior positions of authority. Good manners usually involves using respectful forms of address, such as formal titles, and being attuned to social situations to use the activities of others as behavioral cues. For example, someone who has never eaten a formal dinner can still demonstrate good manners by following the examples of others around the table.

Good manners go a long way in most societies. Mannerly people are more likely to get ahead in the world of business, and they also find themselves more commonly invited as guests and welcomed in society. In tense social situations, an awareness of good manners and social rules of behavior can help to diffuse tension, or at least to avoid a serious incident, and someone's attention to proper codes of conduct will be remembered. Travelers who take the time to learn about the codes of conduct in regions they are visiting will often find their way smoothed, and they will be welcomed back in the future.

Good manners are a courtesy to others
In essence, good manners mean you don't make others uncomfortable around you. It's not just eating quietly and neatly, it's paying attention to the person who is talking to you, not gossiping, laughing even if the joke isn't funny (as long as it is not crude). Good manners are a form of caring.

They are also a bridge between cultures and lifestyles. Knowing the protocol of the other culture is a form of good manners. Allowing others to have the spotlight is a form of good manners.

If, by good manners, you are simply referring to table manners, put your napkin in your lap, use your silverware from the outside in, tear your bread in bite size pieces before you butter it, one piece at a time, and don't gulp. Chew with your mouth shut and wait until it is empty to talk. Eat small pieces at once so you are not looking like a cow chewing cud.

It's just a matter of making sure others are not uncomfortable around you. That's really the whole thing

.

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,32518.0.html

 

[Laura]

Menna was attacked and beaten on energetic level. Can't you see that nature?

Actually, that is NOT what happened. However, that is what YOU are attempting to do. And frankly, I don't think we need any "tohuwabohu" (usually translated as "waste and void," "formless and empty," or "chaos and desolation") on this forum which it seems, you are bound and determined to produce all the while parading "in sheep's clothing." I've had about enough.

 

[Anamarija]

Dakota, when you say "Regarding Menna, also there is possibility that he didn't see this post. Maybe you should change the title of the thread to "Dear Menna, what's going on?" " Are you really serious? You want the mods to run after a selfish guy? You really think he doesn't read this thread? Can you envisage the possibility he's laughing behind his screen?

Yes, I can, but I still think that getting the truth and learn from it is much more important than his, eventually, gloat.
This situation is rather common in my everyday situation and I rarely get a chance to actually receive explanation why people did or said something why they did it/say it. Also, it bugs me how easily my point of view could be switch from one point to another. Rarely I could make some conclusion that could resolve the issue that some form of conflict or discussion bring up.

Yes! And here, you won't have the truth. If he was honnest, he won't be absent like that. He's making a remark or a demand and is going away (even if he is busy, because when you say something, you have to assume your statement, be here to give the feedback). Untill you don't have the truth, why apologize or why asking for the others to go and bring him here? If he wants apologies, he must come here and say his intentions.

I presumed that his first post will be insulting for Laura and it didn't.
I presumed that everyone else will see how his first post is wrong and totally lack of external consideration.
I presumed that this discussion will stop after Laura said what she mean about his post.
I presumed lot of things, and I was wrong.
I will try not to presume more, especially why Menna is not answering on this thread.

"This situation is rather common in my everyday situation and I rarely get a chance to actually receive explanation why people did or said something "

And you apologize at this stage?
I'm not against apologizing in itself, I disagree to apologize when there is no fault. And here, I don't see anyone beeing insolent with him. Shall people put the red carpet at Menna's feet, being submitted and be very carefull to what they say when they adress to him? We can't speak freely?
If there is one person who must apologize, it's Menna: making an assumption without any clarifying or explaining what is the issue.

I didn't apologize just for sake of apologizing, I wanted to express my change of point of view because I was among the people that reacted on Menna's post. And I was confused trough all the development of
discussion. Also, I have apologize when I felt that something change in my thinking and when I fought that is sincere.

IMO, this is not about Menna, it is about our easily fired reaction on presumption what others think. And this is not like I, suddenly, support this kind of behaviour, I just like to learn from this instead of stubbornly think that I'm right.

 

[nature]

Thank you, Dakota for your clarifications :)

Tohuwabohu, thank you for showing who you are: speaking a lot, moralizing and unable to actually answer a single question. You remind me of my ex
Thank you very much for this moment of lauthing.

Menna was attacked and beaten on energetic level. Can't you see that nature?

No, I don't see that.
By the way, you don't answer my question, can you show me the post(s) were he "was attacked and beaten"?

I guess some of us see only what they want to see.

and

Try to discover on your own. Read the thread from Menna's post (threads have been merged). See what others say.

 

[Alada]

Menna was attacked and beaten on energetic level. Can't you see that nature?

No, I don't see that.
By the way, you don't answer my question, can you show me the post(s) were he "was attacked and beaten"?

I guess some of us see only what they want to see.

I see a deflection. Which does not sit so well with the STO principle "all to those who ask".

 

[tohuwabohu]

Why giving nature a fish when he can learn how to fish. Learning opportunity for him.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= tohuwabohu]Try to discover on your own. Read the thread from Menna's post (threads have been merged). See what others say.[/quote]

How about you refrain from posting for a few days and read everything again after. Hopefully than things will be more clearly to you of what has actually transpired. Unless you keep insisting on trying to feed the nonexisting flames. People sincerely apologized and still you insist on starting a riot, which makes you a provocateur. Or is this just simply your intention?

 

[mkrnhr]

Why giving nature a fish when he can learn how to fish. Learning opportunity for him.

tohubohu,
It's a learning opportunity for you, nature sees exactly through your manipulations. Whether you're able to see them is another story, but it certainly appears that it's not the case.

For example, when you say:

I guess some of us see only what they want to see.

you guessed right, you're seeing only what you want to see. And you are wasting everybody's energy and time with all this nonsense.

Are you (and/or your predator mind) afraid of Menna's return to clarify the context of his latest post and diffuse further the misunderstanding so that it reveals your motivations? Is that why you paint a simple semantic misunderstanding as some imaginary "energetic beating" so to reduce him to a helpless victim? No answer required, your actions speak for themselves. What you can do is to examine your behaviour and see if you want to change or stay as you are.

 

[tohuwabohu]

Menna was attacked and beaten on energetic level. Can't you see that nature?

No, I don't see that.
By the way, you don't answer my question, can you show me the post(s) were he "was attacked and beaten"?

I guess some of us see only what they want to see.

I see a deflection. Which does not sit so well with the STO principle "all to those who ask".

To those who ask, not command. What is the definition of asking?
I cannot help those who do not see. Perhaps someone else can. Hopefully I am here not alone.

 

[Hesper]

Why giving nature a fish when he can learn how to fish. Learning opportunity for him.

tohubohu,
It's a learning opportunity for you, nature sees exactly through your manipulations. Whether you're able to see them is another story, but it certainly appears that it's not the case.

For example, when you say:

I guess some of us see only what they want to see.

you guessed right, you're seeing only what you want to see. And you are wasting everybody's energy and time with all this nonsense.

Are you (and/or your predator mind) afraid of Menna's return to clarify the context of his latest post and diffuse further the misunderstanding so that it reveals your motivations? Is that why you paint a simple semantic misunderstanding as some imaginary "energetic beating" so to reduce him to a helpless victim? No answer required, your actions speak for themselves. What you can do is to examine your behaviour and see if you want to change or stay as you are.

tohuwabohu you've said in another thread

'Sorry I could not support the group more with the donations but I lost my job. Fortunately saved some money. Nevertheless I am reluctant to work for some pathological individuals so right now I am in a tight spot. So writing this post and asking for some help seems like a good idea (you are the only normal people I know who understand what STO means).

As you are a relatively long-time member you should know that this work, and being part of an aspiring STO community, does not begin below the level of an obvyatel, of someone who has their affairs in order. It would be best for you if you mastered the simple things, like 'working for some pathological individuals,' before aspiring to tell others how an 'STO community' should or should not behave.