Dear Laura, whats going on?
- Thread starter kryon
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D
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Joe said:
yes thank you Joe, no I didn't wanted to discuss STO here, just wanted to say that if STO orientation is someone personal intent, and we know that, no matter how much or how long someone is on that path, than we shall be less rigid to each other, specially to those who committed as moderators, but as well as to Menna ... but yes thank you for giving me your view, as I do have problems of condensing my main point in single sentence or so, and it is not just on Forum, but in general I shall focus to "less", in order not to generate confusion, what is happening to me often, and honestly I am usually taking things literary as they are said, so in Menna writings I didn't even thought that he might refer to sessions ... it is off the topic again, so ... thank you one more time, I'll work on it ...
D
Deleted member 11729
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bjorn said:
I think that the intent behind the people reacting was good. But even than it's possible to take the wrong approach at times. That's all and it can happen to the best of us.
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Thank you Bjorn, that is exactly what I wanted to say :)
John G
The Living Force
c.a. said:
Yeah we including the lurking people like me are making our best guess using very limited data and the guesses not surprisingly don't agree. Given the limited data we can easily change our guesses at different times. Internet communication in general has always been open to misinterpretation hence the invention of emoticons/emojis. Texting-like quick one-liners make this even more difficult. Where are you Menna, your profile seems to indicate that you like me have been lurking though maybe you are somehow missing this ongoing topic? See how easy it is to throw out wild guesses!
BrendaH
Jedi
I've been thinking about why I overreacted with Menna's thread and if I was in reality projecting, and I came to the conclusion that I saw in Menna's thread an attitude that I hate in some members of my family and why we have argued many times. What I'm referring to is when someone wants something and instead of asking for it directly they complain or say something indirectly regarding what they want, etc. I used not to do or give them what they wanted until they said "I want this or that", or "can you do this or that?". Now I say to them why don't you ask directly what you want? And they simply laugh, this gets my nerves, because they think is funny or I don't know. And for some reason Menna's thread triggered the same response on myself. And when some members wrote about taking Menna's thread from a different angle I thought "well, clearly we are having two completely different points of view and I overreacted and this is a fact" and I thought about it and it was very clear Menna's thread could have been taken from a conpletely different point of view and I reached the conclusion that I've already explained.
I'm still thinking the same about Menna's thread, at least until Menna give us an explanation. But it is true that I overreacted and I could have said things in a better way and that would be starting with the proper questions that I mentioned in one of my posts in this thread. I just wanted to clarified some things regarding my overreaction, I reached this conclusion today and I wanted to share it with all of you, maybe it is a realization of a new program too.
Another thing, this is not, in anyway, a justification. I mentioned this just in case someone is thinking about it, it is nomal to think so when someone "explains" their own reaction. I'm only sharing my conclusion not jusificating anything because I could have reacted in a different way if I had stopped to think a little more before posting. That's all :)
I'm still thinking the same about Menna's thread, at least until Menna give us an explanation. But it is true that I overreacted and I could have said things in a better way and that would be starting with the proper questions that I mentioned in one of my posts in this thread. I just wanted to clarified some things regarding my overreaction, I reached this conclusion today and I wanted to share it with all of you, maybe it is a realization of a new program too.
Another thing, this is not, in anyway, a justification. I mentioned this just in case someone is thinking about it, it is nomal to think so when someone "explains" their own reaction. I'm only sharing my conclusion not jusificating anything because I could have reacted in a different way if I had stopped to think a little more before posting. That's all :)
tohuwabohu said:
tohuwabohu, this entire admonition of the mods comes across as quite self-important in and of itself, whatever the reasons others had for criticizing menna. You also say you felt cranky when you responded. That doesn't seem like the best condition under which to give an externally considerate response.
BrenXHkm said:
I think you've reacted like this because you spotted here that manipulation (based on an assumption) Joe wrote about earlier, an assumption ("Laura must be busy") instead of a direct question about the matter, without expectations. Your experience with your family is a good example of this type of manipulation and draining of energy, OSIT.
solarmind said:
Thank you Bjorn, that is exactly what I wanted to say :)
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To me the intent was well meant, so I didn't saw the purpose of bringing a STS/STO dynamic to this discussion. It was a bit unclear for me what you tried to tell. Perhaps you over-analyzed the whole situation, best to say at the topic at hand
Re: Next C'ssession
I find it so bizare coming from Mena to throw such a laconic message out in the air. There is also the full stop missing there, like he didn´t have time to end it, or pressed the wrong keyboard, and posted it instead of saving his post until he could further completed it accordingly.
These were my thoughts as I first read it. I also miss his explanation after a week went by, so I took a glimpse at his later posts where it roughly shows a rate of one message each 15 days. Maybe he isn´t aware of the psychological stuff he has brought forward for us all to refine? Well, I dearly hope nothing bad happened to him besides all my presumptions, and that he will soon give us some sign of life.
Menna said:
I find it so bizare coming from Mena to throw such a laconic message out in the air. There is also the full stop missing there, like he didn´t have time to end it, or pressed the wrong keyboard, and posted it instead of saving his post until he could further completed it accordingly.
These were my thoughts as I first read it. I also miss his explanation after a week went by, so I took a glimpse at his later posts where it roughly shows a rate of one message each 15 days. Maybe he isn´t aware of the psychological stuff he has brought forward for us all to refine? Well, I dearly hope nothing bad happened to him besides all my presumptions, and that he will soon give us some sign of life.
Alada
The Living Force
BrenXHkm said:
What you described sounds as if it may be passive-aggressive programs running. Maybe there was a touch of that in Menna’s post, or at least it was perceived as such.
BrenXHkm said:
Well that can be done in passive-aggressive ways, it’s hard to say without specifics. But let’s say for the minute that it is the case, there are some important questions to consider then I think. What can be the cause or root of this habit in the other person? And when that has been considered, what could my best, most helpful action be?
BrenXHkm said:
Which you you think about it, can be a passive-aggressive habit itself! Same thing, different flavour, but we tell ourselves that it’s everyone else running programs not us! I’ve caught myself doing that a time or two with family members, what we miss then by running our own such programs in response is the chance to think much about and observe what is being triggered in us and why in the first place.
BrenXHkm said:
Well there can be different reasons why the other person might laugh. Depends on why they said whatever they said in the first place, and depends on how you put your reply, in tone and manner.
Maybe the other person thinks we’re silly and are laughing at us, maybe they don’t know how to react to someone pointing out that it’s okay to just ask for what you want, so it’s a kind of unconscious deflection then from having to have that uncomfortable moment of realising that you don’t know how to ask. But if the latter is the case, is that their fault, should we be angered by that?
I think if any of that fits with what we think we see in our own families, it’s up to us to take the responsibility to be more considerate in our responses and actions. If others have problems asking in a straight forward way, be more attentive to the reasons why that might be so. Within the context of family especially, these things just get passed on down the line from generation to generation. If properly observed and understood though, that no longer need be the case, we can choose to not let the programs run when we observe they have been triggered.
For the last couple days I've been thinking about my previous post in this thread, and seems to me I reacted overprotective and even harsh, and for that I'm sorry. 
Whenever I have doubt in my own decisions and attitude, threads on this forum from the peeps, moderators and elders help me in many ways. One of them is to be able to see when I make mistake, and for that I'm grateful.
Related to the Menna's post. It would be nice if Menna could find time and energy and give us some explanation. That would clarify some things and help all the peeps involved in this thread to learn something new. Without Menna's clarification more questions are popping up.
Whenever I have doubt in my own decisions and attitude, threads on this forum from the peeps, moderators and elders help me in many ways. One of them is to be able to see when I make mistake, and for that I'm grateful.
Related to the Menna's post. It would be nice if Menna could find time and energy and give us some explanation. That would clarify some things and help all the peeps involved in this thread to learn something new. Without Menna's clarification more questions are popping up.
tohuwabohu
Jedi Master
This is STO forum and STO community. We are like a family.
So do you think that it is OK to beat someone up only because he was curious and stated his belief?
BTW it can be easily interpreted as "There was no session for a long time I am wondering how is Laura doing, is she OK?"
Question can be asked in many ways but it is still a question. It might or might not be answered.
If I or someone on the forum asks a question in some way that is not in accord with expectations of the mods will we be beaten up?
What happened has serious implications. Participants on the forum are clearly confused and do not know what to make of it. This needs to be clarified.
If we are talking about external consideration then it doesn't mean only taking into account the needs and feelings and beliefs of others, but also the AIM of all of us as a group. And the ultimate goal, if my memory serves me well, is to gain enough light, knowledge and strength so that we can battle the forces of darkness.
Anyone who has two firing neurons can see that because of what happened we have lost light, lost understanding and lost strength. Only if we unite we stand a chance against darkness.
In STO worlds there is no "chain of command". Laura doesn't need to be protected from forum members. She is one of us.
Forum and STO community has to be protected from trolls, agents of darkness, STS leeches, spies and all other impurities that are NOT LIGHT.
And as can be seen if we do not know whether Laura is OK and what she is up to we get unsettled rather quickly especially now when everything goes kaoofley. Some updates could perhaps make it better. And so that someone doesnt say I am demanding I state here that I am just asking. And to ask without anticipation is the nature of the STO.
So do you think that it is OK to beat someone up only because he was curious and stated his belief?
BTW it can be easily interpreted as "There was no session for a long time I am wondering how is Laura doing, is she OK?"
Question can be asked in many ways but it is still a question. It might or might not be answered.
If I or someone on the forum asks a question in some way that is not in accord with expectations of the mods will we be beaten up?
What happened has serious implications. Participants on the forum are clearly confused and do not know what to make of it. This needs to be clarified.
If we are talking about external consideration then it doesn't mean only taking into account the needs and feelings and beliefs of others, but also the AIM of all of us as a group. And the ultimate goal, if my memory serves me well, is to gain enough light, knowledge and strength so that we can battle the forces of darkness.
Anyone who has two firing neurons can see that because of what happened we have lost light, lost understanding and lost strength. Only if we unite we stand a chance against darkness.
In STO worlds there is no "chain of command". Laura doesn't need to be protected from forum members. She is one of us.
Forum and STO community has to be protected from trolls, agents of darkness, STS leeches, spies and all other impurities that are NOT LIGHT.
And as can be seen if we do not know whether Laura is OK and what she is up to we get unsettled rather quickly especially now when everything goes kaoofley. Some updates could perhaps make it better. And so that someone doesnt say I am demanding I state here that I am just asking. And to ask without anticipation is the nature of the STO.
tohuwabohu said:
No it isn't. It's an STS forum and an STS community, because we are stuck in a 3DSTS realm.
We're trying to learn what it means to be STO, and one of the points that is coming out in this thread is that without knowing where Menna was coming from, his post seemed very self-serving.
That's a bit presumptuous. I'd say there are people here who are like family and people who aren't. And then it depends what you mean by family - since most families in our realm are dysfunctional to one degree or another. So again, I think we're striving to be a family - an ideal family - and part of being in an ideal family is honest and open communication. Menna's contribution isn't an example of that yet.
No one beat anyone up. And I personally didn't think the feedback Menna got was overly harsh. I just think it was a situation that those who did give that feedback can learn something about themselves.
But that's not what Menna said, and what he did say didn't have that flavour to it. To me, it was manipulative: it was a loaded comment; it was a way of using language that is designed to get something.
And part of learning to be STO is learning the difference between when someone is asking and when someone is demanding. We try to give all to the former and resist against the latter.
No.
Yep. And we're still waiting, Menna.
That's all very high-sounding, but then the question becomes, how do we do all of the above? Well, we do exactly what we're doing now. Interacting in an open, critical way that is designed to bring as much truth and learning to those involved as possible. Nothing that has happened so far in this thread goes against the aim of the group. Quite the contrary.
I don't think there's any evidence that any of that is true, whatever you mean by light, understanding and strength.
That's what we're trying to do.
First of all, that's just wrong. Laura does need to be protected from forum members. But in this case, I don't think what Menna said posed much of a threat. What threatens Laura and the group most is when people fall into black and white thinking, projection, manipulative self-interest: Basically, when people forget themselves and just run programmes.
I think you need to read, or reread, The Wave to gain a better understanding of the terms your using and how they apply to interactions between people, and how all of us have, can and do serve the function of "trolls, agents of darkness, STS leeches, spies and all other impurities that are NOT LIGHT." Because if you want to be STO, you need to understand how those things work through yourself. First, do no harm.
Until I hear back from Menna, I'm going to assume that he was more bothered about when there was going to be another session, rather than how Laura's doing. And I'll be more than happy to find out that I'm wrong about that.
Here's a real-time example, then. In this last sentence, nowhere did you state a question. Before you can learn to ask without anticipation, you have to learn to actually be able to ask.
