Dental Health

[Voyageur]

I recently finished "Cure tooth decay: heal and prevent cavities with nutrition" by Ramiel Nagel. Another forum member had already written a resume on this book (based on a promo web site) http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,10754.msg76723.html#msg76723, so I just want to pinpoint some ideas.

I'm halfway through this book at the moment, and so far I think it's got some good information -- it's a great compliment to other books like Primal Body, Primal Mind, Deep Nutrition, and The Vegetarian Myth. I like the fact that Nagel is anti-Pasteur and pro-Bechamp, which means he doesn't subscribe to the bacterial theory of tooth decay. If you visit curetoothdecay.com, you receive an offer to download a free PDF of the first chapter of the book, which I've also attached here. There are also a few videos with Nagel out there, one of which is this:

Two other books which I'm also looking forward to reading are Whole-Body Dentistry, mentioned previously by Gertrudes, and Uninformed Consent.

Very timely for people I know facing these things, with many good references and examples - explanations of Phytic Acid etc. was interesting. Thanks Shijing.

 

[Oxajil]

Hi everyone,

I would like to ask for feedback on this issue.

My mother went to the dentist in December 2013 for a regular check up. At some point my mother said that one of her teeth would hurt a bit when she would chew. The dentist then made a picture, and suggested to her to have a root canal surgery to get the problem fixed. So, right then she signed the contract.

She had the surgery on 10 December 2013. Afterwards her right cheek was swollen and she was in a lot of pain. After about two weeks the cheek wasn't swollen anymore and for a week she was able to eat a little. The week after, an abscess appeared on the gums between the tooth that got the canal treatment and the tooth in front of it.

The dentist said that the inflammation was not because of the tooth that got the treatment, but that it was because of the tooth in front of it, with no explanation. That tooth in front was never a problem for my mother, so she doesn't understand how this tooth suddenly caused this abscess to form.

Then the dentist gave her antibiotics for her to take for two weeks. During these two weeks of antibiotics she didn't experience any pain anymore and the abscess decreased a bit. The two weeks after the antibiotics treatment she was doing fine. (Fine as in, could eat, not much pain, but eating hard things like an apple would be painful).

Then, the abscess started to increase in size like before and started to hurt. Afterwards she got antibiotics again for about one week. Abscess then decreased a bit and pain started to reduce. After the antiobiotics the abscess started to increase in size again.

Next problem:

On January 6th, the dentist decided to refill (my mom is not sure what exactly he was doing) two teeth in the back and on the left side. After this, my mother was in extreme lots of pain. Mind you: these two teeth never ever hurt before. At this point, she could not drink/eat cold/hot food/drinks.

After a couple of days of lots of hurt, she went to the hospital during the weekend because the pain became unbearable. At the hospital the doctor suspected inflammation and gave her ibuprofen which helped a lot. They told her to go to her dentist as soon as she can.

Two days after the hospital visit (in the meantime, ibuprofen had helped), she went to see the dentist and he said that one of the two teeth (the ones he ''refilled'') should have a root canal treatment (Go figure!!). My mom said she doesn't want that.

The dentist said she can think about it. He then had put something in her teeth (my mom isn't sure what it was) in order to relieve the pain for now. He said that if this works, then all is well, but if the pain comes back or whatever, she could come back for the root canal treatment.

After that visit she was able to drink cold and hot drinks. But eating hard stuff like an apple is still not possible.

--

So right now, the abscess hurts, as well as her left cheek where he did something to two teeth that were fine before! The state my mother's teeth were in before any of this dentist's treatments were fine compared to how it is now.

I got her the DMSO cream (70% with aloe vera/rosescented one) and she has been using it for three days now. About once a day she puts some of it on both of her cheeks, leaves it for a couple of minutes and then washes it off. I've read in the other threads that DMSO helped to relieve pain. For now, my mother hasn't noticed an improvement yet.
What is clear is that when she used the antiobiotics things did get better, so I'm thinking of bacterial infection, and a dangerous one at that, maybe she could ask for antibiotics again and mix them up with DMSO? Or would that be risky?

Is there anything else we could do to help her? Do you have a similar experience and what helped you?

I've read Dr. Mercola's article on root canal treatments, and I'm just really sick of how evil the medical system can be and fails in so many aspects. The goal should be to help people get better, not screw them up. After some searching around, I found one dentist about a 40 min drive from us who's against fluoride, amalgams and root canal treatment, so we'll see if we can have him look at the teeth.

Right now my mom is doing okay, still some pain and difficulty with eating, so she's taking it easy with food/drinks.

Thank you for reading, any feedback is welcome!

 

[Gaby]

I have had 4 root canals or so... In the X ray, you can tell which teeth potentially need root canals. So if your mom can recover the X rays, she can get a second opinion. It can be entirely possible that two of them needed root canals.

I have read the root canal controversy and how many diseases started afterwards. In the end, if you can't control an abscess, pain or infection with alternative treatments, I think it is understandable to opt for the root canal. Specially if you can't afford a more sophisticated treatment. Dietary changes are a plus, as any problem will more likely be prevented.

Since I changed my diet, tooth problems are no longer an issue. And although I know that one tooth potentially might need a root canal, so far it hasn't given me any more problems. On the contrary, the pain subsided and it seems to have healed by itself with dietary changes alone. In my case, cutting on carbs made the whole difference as I was already gluten and dairy free.

I think it is possible to heal these things with diet and suggested treatments, but the diet seems like the most important thing. Some have mentioned oil pulling, there is the DMSO mixed with antibiotics which helps with the pain and infection and a number of other things. But I don't think it works in all cases despite the good results some have had.

If your mom has had antibiotics + ibuprofen, that means a guaranteed leaky gut issue. There are some probiotics called lactobacillus rhamnosus which are pretty good, they promote a friendly neighborhood. They should be available in pharmacies. That should help her deal with the infection better, but also help heal her gut.

Here are a couple of articles from a search of "oil pulling, root canal prevention":

Need root canal, will oil pulling help?
_http://curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=1220079

How Coconut Oil Might Combat Tooth Decay
_http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/12/08/coconut-oil-combats-tooth-decay.aspx

My 2 cents! :)

 

[LQB]

I've read Dr. Mercola's article on root canal treatments, and I'm just really sick of how evil the medical system can be and fails in so many aspects. The goal should be to help people get better, not screw them up. After some searching around, I found one dentist about a 40 min drive from us who's against fluoride, amalgams and root canal treatment, so we'll see if we can have him look at the teeth.

I think the second opinion from the alternative dentist (like Gaby mentioned) is a good idea.

I do know that the WAPF folks are dead set against RCs because of the likelihood of post-RC chronic infection and they have some dietary protocols that they prefer. I think there is a homeopathic path as well (Joette Calabrese - WAPF Journal contributor). You might have a look/search of westonaprice.org for past articles on RCs.

 

[Oxajil]

I have had 4 root canals or so... In the X ray, you can tell which teeth potentially need root canals. So if your mom can recover the X rays, she can get a second opinion. It can be entirely possible that two of them needed root canals.

I have read the root canal controversy and how many diseases started afterwards. In the end, if you can't control an abscess, pain or infection with alternative treatments, I think it is understandable to opt for the root canal. Specially if you can't afford a more sophisticated treatment. Dietary changes are a plus, as any problem will more likely be prevented.

However in this case, it was the root canal that in some way or another caused the infection. The infection only happened after the root canal treatment. But it's reassuring to know that not all root canal treatments are harmful as you've had them and they haven't bothered you. We will go for a second opinion and see what the dentist says. Thank you also for the links!

If your mom has had antibiotics + ibuprofen, that means a guaranteed leaky gut issue. There are some probiotics called lactobacillus rhamnosus which are pretty good, they promote a friendly neighborhood. They should be available in pharmacies. That should help her deal with the infection better, but also help heal her gut.

Will definitely get the probiotics. I also told my mom about the diet, but I don't think she'll do it (which may be a reason why the infection might've been hitting hard). In any case thank you for your input Gaby!

I think the second opinion from the alternative dentist (like Gaby mentioned) is a good idea.

I do know that the WAPF folks are dead set against RCs because of the likelihood of post-RC chronic infection and they have some dietary protocols that they prefer. I think there is a homeopathic path as well (Joette Calabrese - WAPF Journal contributor). You might have a look/search of westonaprice.org for past articles on RCs.

Thanks LQG! I'll have a look.

 

[Chrissy]

Hi Oxajil, sorry to hear your mom is having these problems with her teeth and experiencing so much pain. Did you happen to try some liposomal vitamin C? I have a tooth that's been giving me some trouble and I found taking the vitamin C helps alleviate the pain in about a day. When I discussed root canals with my dentist, he said sensitivity to cold was ok, but if it was sensitivity to hot, I was in trouble. So maybe if she is tolerating hot drinks, it is a good sign. I hope she is feeling better soon.

 

[Hildegarda]

The dentist said that the inflammation was not because of the tooth that got the treatment, but that it was because of the tooth in front of it, with no explanation. That tooth in front was never a problem for my mother, so she doesn't understand how this tooth suddenly caused this abscess to form.

Something like this has happened to me in the past. A new dentist I went to has told me that a large filling needs to be replaced in my tooth. He did it. The next day, a tooth next to it that was completely fine before started hurting like the dickens. I went to him again, and he said I needed root canal in that tooth. He did the root canal and it failed. Three months later I was still in pain. I ended up removing that tooth and getting an implant. I think I have developed some nerve damage from that procedure; I always develop neuralgia on that side of a face when I have a head cold. But other than that, it's been fine.

I have learned two things since than. First, any dental procedure carries a risk of structural damage or infection to adjacent teeth, resulting in the necessity for a crown, a root canal, or treatment for dental abscess. They do not tell you that. The more they mess with it, the more chance there is for things to get messed up. Second, people who have TMJ syndrome (neuromuscular pain in the jaw joint) have particularly poor outcomes with the root canal procedure. That has something to do with the reduced blood flow to the jaw tissues. I do have TMJ after wisdom teeth removal. That could have been either due to the jaw joint damage: my teeth were partially impacted, but the surgeon have wrestled those teeth out of their bone sockets without cutting into the bone. It was less invasive but possibly more destructive ultimately. Or, it could be due to jaw misalignment after the surgery.

I hope your mother finds some relief. Unfortunately, a root canal may indeed be necessary; yet, there is no guarantee that it would work. Extraction and implants are another option, if you think that having titanium in your mouth is a lesser evil.

I wanted to share another book about dietary healing of dental problems. It is called Cure Tooth Decay by Ramiel Nagel. It is primarily geared towards parents of children with tooth decay, but is applicable to grown-ups as well. It is very paleo and WPF-based and easy to read, with menu options. He also is very skeptical about root canals. For acute pain, he suggest a few days of no grains and sweets of any kind, with bone broths and fish stews and plenty of fish oil and yellow butter. Supplementing with certain essential oils is a bonus. A particular blend called Thieves Oil (clove, lemon, cinnamon, eucalyptus, and rosemary) is said to be very good for painful teeth.

 

[daddycat]

Hi Oxajil, it does sound like your mother needs another opinion from another dentist. I don't think she should have any more treatment from the original dentist until you can figure out what her current status is. It may be a good idea to get a copy of your mother's full medical records from the original dentist and bring it to the second dentist. Also, it would be a good idea to make sure the second dentist does not use and is against known bad substances like amalgam and fluoride. I found my diagnostic dentist through International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology (IAOMT), and I would recommend him to anyone who wants to travel to Los Angeles to see him.

From what I've read, root canals are very bad because the procedure basically results in a dead tooth that serves as a receptacle for bacteria and viruses. I think I would choose an extraction and implant instead of a root canal, though I would do further research if I had to make the choice.

 

[shijing]

I wanted to share another book about dietary healing of dental problems. It is called Cure Tooth Decay by Ramiel Nagel. It is primarily geared towards parents of children with tooth decay, but is applicable to grown-ups as well. It is very paleo and WPF-based and easy to read, with menu options.

There are a few members now who've mentioned this book, and after having finished reading it last week, I just want to recommend ordering it and reading it before making any major decisions about tooth procedures. As Hildegarda mentioned, there's a section on root canals that may be very helpful to you in this situation, and it's another good reason to get a second opinion.

 

[manitoban]

The dentist said that the inflammation was not because of the tooth that got the treatment, but that it was because of the tooth in front of it, with no explanation. That tooth in front was never a problem for my mother, so she doesn't understand how this tooth suddenly caused this abscess to form.

I have learned two things since than. First, any dental procedure carries a risk of structural damage or infection to adjacent teeth, resulting in the necessity for a crown, a root canal, or treatment for dental abscess. They do not tell you that. The more they mess with it, the more chance there is for things to get messed up. Second, people who have TMJ syndrome (neuromuscular pain in the jaw joint) have particularly poor outcomes with the root canal procedure. That has something to do with the reduced blood flow to the jaw tissues. I do have TMJ after wisdom teeth removal. That could have been either due to the jaw joint damage: my teeth were partially impacted, but the surgeon have wrestled those teeth out of their bone sockets without cutting into the bone. It was less invasive but possibly more destructive ultimately. Or, it could be due to jaw misalignment after the surgery.

I hope your mother finds some relief. Unfortunately, a root canal may indeed be necessary; yet, there is no guarantee that it would work. Extraction and implants are another option, if you think that having titanium in your mouth is a lesser evil.

Fwiw, I've recently been through my own dental problems, and have had similar experiences to Hildegarda. I have just gone through a series of oral surgeries, including an extraction, and I too, developed TMJ. I opted for an extraction instead of a root canal, simply because the tooth was nonfunctional (had no opposing tooth), and wasn't in good enough shape to make it worth while. I do have an alternative dentist,(anti fluoride, mercury etc ) and that was his recommendation. You really do have to weigh the pros and cons of having a root canal, it may be worthwhile, IF the tooth is functional and can be saved.

Although you don't hear too much about it, it is so true that the more they mess with it, the more potential for further trouble. And it seems that TMJ is quite common after these dental procedures, and it sure can be painful. I've also discovered that it isn't unusual to have nerve pain from the freezing and pain from the needles that can last for some time. It can be difficult to even pinpoint where exactly the pain is coming from as so many areas are traumatized from the dental procedures.

All in all, I sure sympathize with your mother, I hope she feels better soon.

 

[Oxajil]

Thank you all very much for sharing your experiences and advices. I will take them into account.

 

[H-KQGE]

I thought I'd post this here rather than the bleeding gums thread, (still not sure) since this topic is overall dental health, & it has morphed several times over the years.

http://newsroom.cumc.columbia.edu/blog/2014/03/21/genetic-signature-reveals-new-way-classify-gum-disease/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=genetic-signature-reveals-new-way-classify-gum-disease

The paper is titled, “Gingival Tissue Transcriptomes Identify Distinct Periodontitis Phenotypes.”

Gene Expression Signature Reveals New Way to Classify Gum Disease
May allow for earlier diagnosis and personalized treatment of severe periodontitis

March 21, 2014
Posted in: Dentistry, Genetics, Personalized Medicine, Research
NEW YORK, NY (March 21, 2014) — Researchers at Columbia University Medical Center (CUMC) have devised a new system for classifying periodontal disease based on the genetic signature of affected tissue, rather than on clinical signs and symptoms. The new classification system, the first of its kind, may allow for earlier detection and more individualized treatment of severe periodontitis, before loss of teeth and supportive bone occurs. The findings were published recently in the online edition of the Journal of Dental Research.

Currently, periodontal disease is classified as either “chronic” or “aggressive,” based on clinical signs and symptoms, such as severity of gum swelling and extent of bone loss. “However, there is much overlap between the two classes,” said study leader Panos N. Papapanou, DDS, PhD, professor and chair of oral and diagnostic sciences at the College of Dental Medicine at CUMC. “Many patients with severe symptoms can be effectively treated, while others with seemingly less severe infection may continue to lose support around their teeth even after therapy. Basically, we don’t know whether a periodontal infection is truly aggressive until severe, irreversible damage has occurred.”

Looking for a better way to classify periodontitis, Dr. Papapanou turned to cancer as a model. In recent years, cancer biologists have found that, in some cancers, clues to a tumor’s aggressiveness and responsiveness to treatment can be found in its genetic signature. To determine if similar patterns could be found in periodontal disease, the CUMC team performed genome-wide expression analyses of diseased gingival (gum) tissue taken from 120 patients with either chronic or aggressive periodontitis. The test group included both males and females ranging in age from 11 to 76 years.

The researchers found that, based on their gene expression signatures, the patients fell into two distinct clusters. “The clusters did not align with the currently accepted periodontitis classification,” said Dr. Papapanou. However, the two clusters did differ with respect to the extent and severity of periodontitis, with significantly more serious disease in Cluster 2. The study also found higher levels of infection by known oral pathogens, as well as a higher percentage of males, in Cluster 2 than in Cluster 1, in keeping with the well-established observation that severe periodontitis is more common in men than in women.

“Our data suggest that molecular profiling of gingival tissues can indeed form the basis for the development of an alternative, pathobiology-based classification of periodontitis that correlates well with the clinical presentation of the disease,” said Dr. Papapanou.

The researchers’ next goal is to conduct a prospective study to validate the new classification system’s ability to predict disease outcome. The team also hopes to find simple surrogate biomarkers for the two clusters, as it would be impractical to perform genome-wide testing on every patient.

The new system could offer huge advantages for classifying people with different types of periodontitis. “If a patient is found to be highly susceptible to severe periodontitis, we would be justified in using aggressive therapies, even though that person may have subclinical disease,” said Dr. Papapanou. “Now, we wait years to make this determination, and by then, significant damage to the tooth-supporting structures may have occurred.”

There's a grainy colour graphic thing at the bottom, in the link. For those who can make sense of such things. :D

 

[Nancy2feathers]

Today I took off work and drove just under an hour to go to my dentist appt. I have dental insurance through the ex`s work, and thought I would use it before the divorce is settled. I had my teeth cleaned and a check-up, no x-rays at the same office and dentist about 1 1/2 years ago. So I thought, okay, I`ll do the same this time. I filled out the required paperwork and handed it to the receptionist and mentioned to her that I didn`t want x-rays. She told me I could not have teeth cleaning and exam without having x-rays. I mentioned that I had the same done a year and a half ago. At that point the dentist came out and announced "What is the problem here?"(he had been waiting in the exam room for me). The receptionist told him I didn`t want x-rays. He asked me why? So I told him I didn`t want to be exposed to the radiation. To that he responded " You would get more radiation walking down the streets of NYC or being scanned at the airport. You don`t come in here and dictate what you want done. That`s not how I work things here." I said "Thank you" and left the office. On my way home I thought about Laura`s post of using the water pic and decided to buy one. I haven`t had cavities or any problems with my teeth for years, so it`s all about preventative maintenance for me (I hope. Knock on wood!). I`v been brushing twice a day with baking soda and hydrogen peroxide and coconut oil pulling a couple times a week.

The dentist acted like a jerk. He seemed like he needed to be in charge and there was no room for what I had requested (even though he did act on my request 1 1/2 yrs ago).

 

[daddycat]

That dental office sounds like it is run by idiots. Good job getting out of there. Maybe post a negative review on yelp to warn others?

 

[H-KQGE]

Good on you Nancy2feathers. Reading that was like a slap "around the chops." I imagined him looking at you head-to-toe then gesticulating all over the place! I bet he knows next to nothing about the differences in radiation levels. So he thinks that patients should arrive then shut up and do as they're told?

I think the waterpik (never heard of it before the post on the other thread) and coconut oil pulling are good ideas. Just wondering, does anyone use clay or/and salt as part of their toothpaste - homemade or like this http://www.amazon.com/Redmond-Earthpaste-Wintergreen-4-Ounce/dp/B0080L9FHA

That dental office sounds like it is run by idiots. Good job getting out of there. Maybe post a negative review on yelp to warn others?

Definitely deserves one IMO.





Added:quote from hlat