Depression As A Stepping Stone (to Soul Growth)

kenlee

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The First Victory. Comments on LKJ's "Depression as a Stepping Stone?"

Here is something that I found on the Sojourner-Institute site that I think says some interesting things relating to the proper attitude towards suffering. This also reminds me of what Don Juan said about using death as our advisor and of Emery's experience in the movie 'V for Vendetta' where she faced her death and then lost her fear.

http://www.sojourner-institute.com/archives/identification/salvation/workprayer/acedia/suffering.html
http://www.sojourner-institute.com/smwplussojourner_syn/index.html

EXAMPLES OF FOURTH WAY ATTITUDE TOWARDS SUFFERING:


LIFE

IS A SERIES OF

TROUBLES

AND

DISAPPOINTMENTS

INTERRUPTED

PERIODICALLY

BY

DISASTERS


Going to School to Pain

Pain says. If one would teach, he must first get the student's attention. I am an excellent attention-getter.

I am deep. If you would not fear me, be deep like me.

I come from the center. A point is my sign. A stab from me is the Cosmic Goad.

If you would not fear me, live each Present Moment with the same intensity that you experience me.

I am the great Valuer. All values come from me and my partner, Death.

I am the Gateway to Mysteries. An image of me is your highest concept of the Sacred. I am the quintessential Now. I lie in ambush for those who miss their daily dose of life. This elixir, unconsumed, accumulates and overspills its little vial, raining its concentrated torrent on the negligent soul.

I am the angel of annunciation for the awesome now.

Time is a gliding serpent bearing precious jewels upon its back - each jewel a present Moment.


IF THOU HADST KNOWN HOW TO SUFFER

THOU WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO NOT TO SUFFER

LEARN THOU TO SUFFER AND

THOU SHALT BE ABLE NOT TO SUFFER.

JESUS
ACTS OF JOHN
 

Tigersoap

The Living Force
The First Victory. Comments on LKJ's "Depression as a Stepping Stone?"

Thanks arT (;)) and all the others for the sharing of experience.

Art said:
Tigersoap said:
I think this is very important for me to be able to make the difference between shutting out the emotion and shutting out the emotion without denying it.
Can I ask you: How do you think this differentiation would be possible to make? Can you come-up with some sort of plan or strategy or scheme to that end? How do you think this could be possible to attain?
I can't devise of anything that would not be just an intellectual construct that would try to control the experience.
I have to build up more presence because it can be done all the time, not just when you're angry for example.

Manitoban said:
the 'gap' I feel is when I have sort of stopped the program thats running in me and I feel empty without it. I am so used to running some kind of program all the time that I am somehow uncomfortable when its not there... It was almost like when the negative emotion program was inactivated by me, some other anticipation programme quickly arose to take its place. Like I automatically had to fill the gap, I couldn't just be.
I do also 'see' this inner talking and how it subtely takes over the brief gap where you realize it's there. It's active all the time, in positive and negative thoughts imho.
I did not realize that in a way it is already a big step towards being present and to recognize our inner programs.
 
D

dhess31

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The First Victory. Comments on LKJ's "Depression as a Stepping Stone?"

Hi Art, Ken, all
This has been a very imformative thread, or so I think.

Like Allen, this has been a rough month for me.

Ken wrote "LIFE IS A SERIES OF TROUBLES AND DISAPPOINTMENTS INTERRUPTED PERIODICALLY BY DISASTERS".

As I was walking to my car from the funeral home Tuesday, almost those same exact thoughts were running through my head. I remember adding to these thoughts "Where the hell is all the good? This (life) is f'n pointless". I was wallowing in ym own misery, mostly self-created I might add.

Now, I seem to be a perfect example of what Gurdjieff talks about with the little "I's". I keep catching myself changing. I am mechanical.

I keep "fogetting" to remember. But when I do, as I noted in my previous post in this thread, it IS remarkable.

So, the techniques of Gudjieff and Mouravieff DO work.

And yeah, it isn't easy but there IS hope. The "General Law" seemed to leave me alone until I started with the three volumes of "Gnosis".

It's been downhill since then :)

But you can't gain anything without struggle. And when it comes time to stuggle, that's when many of us lose our way...

A lot of us, the people here on SOTT or our in the world for that matter, seem to have lots of development of thier intellectual center. So we can sit around all day and "THINK". We can sit around all day and "analyze". But when it comes to DOING, our other centers our so whacked-out it seem our entire being rebels on us.

It's what we DO when that happens that is important.

I almost betrayed everyone here to go and follow EQ. Because he offered more new ways to "THINK" and "ANALYZE". Oh, the things I would learn!

But, it was nothing but an STS ploy on my part that I couldn't even SEE. All because I wanted stuff (powers) that wasn't being bestowed upon the "GREAT DON"! by the SOTT.

When I DID see it, and only with the help of Henry and a few others, it was a huge shock to the system.

Here I was a disciple of Gurdjieff and Ousepensky (or so I saw myself) with all the answers going to find even more answers!

Talking about a black magnetic cetner. That was where I was heading.

But the important part was that I STILL have a long way to go. I thought I was making progress, but I wasn't really "getting" what I was seeing.

So we are all in the same boat here. we all have periods of "bad" times. We all have depression. And it CAN get better, but it takes time and we have to DO.

Don
 

Fifth Way

Jedi Council Member
The First Victory. Comments on LKJ's "Depression as a Stepping Stone?"

Wow. This thread is really taking off. Pennies just keep dropping.
Art said:
I also "closed in my self" to the extent there are WHOLE YEARS I cannot say what was it that I did, or what was it that I was thinking... Just lost. And it was preciselly at secondary school time as well.
Same here! God! I really have to revisit this whole schooling subject in regards to my children. Thank God they are not quite there yet!
Art said:
What was that? Was it not a ponerization process?
I think yes!

But then again - same here, as well:.
allen said:
Suddenly, my depression is feeling a bit like a gift.
I belive now it really is a gift! After all it can be the big Steppingstone!
I just read again the entire "Depression as a Steppingstone" essay and all comments and I did this too, real slow. http://www.quantumfuture.net/qfs/qfs_depression1.htm Laura's commentary at the end is a revelation and I think it can only be really understood when you are really feeling the depression as I feel it still (even though it is slightly lifting - due to this group's work). Because the final sentence is the one that transcends Faith. And faith being the first step of the very first step.
laura said:
And so it is that we see this low-level, thread of depression that manifests as a consequence of SEEing might actually be necessary to fuel the desire to ascend.
Indeed.
And in order to deal with the depression that manifests as a consequence of SEEing the reality of our world, as a consequence of piercing the vail of the matrix the "I" connected to the higher centers need to be able to SEE the "Is" that are connected to (or fed by) the lower.
jOda said:
And there is curious thing about this grief..and I'd like to know your thoughts about it, forumites. I sense some part of me likes this emotion, like it would be very satisfied with just wallowing in grief. Why is that or what is that? Is it because I'm letting myself to feel it, instead of escaping or overlying it with another emotion or activity?
Laura recently explained it this way (I shortened it a bit and emphasized the section that I think may relate to your question jOda):
Laura said:
Grief is also the normal response when you "lose" anything, including
a cherished belief or worldview. [...]The textbooks will tell you that grief has certain stages or facets
since it is a process and not just a momentary emotion. These stages
are usually listed as anger, sadness, denial and acceptance. People
can go through all of them or some of them, in any order, and repeat
some stages again before reaching the final acceptance stage. [...]people experience
depression at various points during the grieving process when whatever
they're trying to process is just too much for them. They shut down
emotionally and put all the too-painful-to-deal-with stuff out of
sight.[...]Simple as that. It's a protective device.[...]The hard part[...]
is to recognize when you're in that state and figure out how to
separate from it enough to have a part of you become psychologically
functional again.
You have to have a little bit of you somewhere that
can be objective, look at what you're going through, and realize that
depression needs to be just temporary and that you do, eventually,
have to move out of it.[...] I have joked that there are two of me --
the one that surfs the emotions and the one that watches, making sure
nothing terribly bad happens. The one that watches is the one that can
take an overview that can help me process out of depression.
The way I understand it is; wanting to wallow is to surf the emotion. The "I" that watches is the one that performs the self-observation. So jOda who SEEs himself wanting to wallow in grief activated that watching "I" that is connected to the higher center, just like Manitoban did when he was SEEing himself filling the gap. That infect is what Art pointed out as S2&S3:
Depression as a Stepping Stone? said:
(S2) By persistent introspection, the individual can observe the rise of the negative emotions and can disconnect them from intellectual or moving center usurpation and, understanding the origin of the reaction, will shed light on the inner darkness. (S3) The individual is then in a position to perform an act of primary importance: the liberation of the energy of the negative emotion for positive use.
OSIT. So: Congratulations on your observations!!
 
A

Art

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The First Victory. Comments on LKJ's "Depression as a Stepping Stone?"

Tigersoap said:
Art said:
Can I ask you: How do you think this differentiation would be possible to make? Can you come-up with some sort of plan or strategy or scheme to that end? How do you think this could be possible to attain?
I have to build up more presence...
!!!

Tigersoap said:
it can be done all the time, not just when you're angry for example.
Like when youre happy? I think I understand you now. Yes, I guess it can be done all the time, that is, with all types of emotions (I got you right on this part, "all the time" = "all the types"? Or perhaps you mean "all the time" as in "a constant state of vigilance", aka, self-observation?). But, what would be the point on not expressing the positive emotions? I think that, by expressing the posive emotions, you spread to all those around you, your luminosity: A "kick" of positive energy which provokes enthusiasm, lifting-up the general level of energy as you input a stream of joy (even casting away bad vibes): This is perceived by the others even as Hope... and darkness steps back!

By expressing the positive emotions, you sintonize your self, and those at your reach, with higher frecuencies, higher aims, higher thoughts.

I am thinking, for exmaple, in a couple of kids laughing away at the park.

I am thinking on you jumping away on some success you have got.

And I am thinking: What a shame it would be, the lack of this expressions!

It seems the idea we are discussing should work too with the positive emotions, but I do not know if the positive emotions are originated in the lower emotional center, bearing the high frecuency they portray. I think positive emotions comes directly from the higher emotional center, and actually are an expression of the real "I", don't you think?

So, how to difference between shutting out the emotion, and shutting out the emotion without denying it?: Maybe the terms are not correct, Tigersoap? It appears to me that, first, it is not to "shot-out" the negative emotion, but to contain it. You most let it be (not denny it). But this does not means to "swallow" it (and this is the trick), but to cut the expression of it by being able to behave in a calm manner on the arrival of a negative emotion: Not to express the negative energy. Second: You cannot do this if you denny the negative emotion, since it is precisely the awareness of it, what would allow you to recognize it as the such. So, more than dennying it, you most accept it, recognize it and, effectivelly, "allow" it to "remain" in its place (lower emotional center), and not, for example, in your inyected eyes, on in your crisped hands, on in your stiff neck, or in your "cry of war" or in any visible characteristic of those who appear to be "angry" or "sad", etc.

Am I confusing you????

But, most definetelly, at any extent, to build-up more presence is certainly the key that will differenciate this (apparently) paradoxical distinction. And this is precisely what all this is about: To build-up more presence.

I hope I was clear somewhere :)

dhess31 said:
It's what we DO when that happens that is important.
Thank you for that post, Don. I trully appreciate your sincerity, and I hope times will fortunatelly start to smile to you very soon.

I notice on your lines a few signs of the Work: You realize of the key emotional states. You keep catching your self changing. You realize you are mechanic. You "keep" forgeting to remember (you know you don't remember, and I bet you even know when is it that you forget to remember): You are DOING.

dhess31 said:
The "General Law" seemed to leave me alone until I started with the three volumes of "Gnosis". It's been downhill since then. But you can't gain anything without struggle. And when it comes time to stuggle, that's when many of us lose our way...
Please check the quote by Don Juan I add ahead.

dhess31 said:
So we are all in the same boat here. we all have periods of "bad" times. We all have depression. And it CAN get better, but it takes time and we have to DO.
True! As FW sais, congratulations on your observations, Don!

Hey, what about spinning for a little while, ah?
 
A

Art

Guest
The First Victory. Comments on LKJ's "Depression as a Stepping Stone?"

Schriss started a thread on DNA Activation.

http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2916

Moonwalker quoted the next:

C's:

941028
Q: (L) "Bringers of the Dawn" advised spinning, is this
advisable for all of us?
A: Major yes.
Q: (L) How many times a day?
A: 3
Q: (L) How many times?
A: 33
Q: (L) Is it ok to do it in the pool?
A: Okay.

Bringers of the Dawn:

Another activity we recommend for those of you who wish to move into a vast acceleration of energy is spinning. Move from left to right, spinning around and focusing your vision on your thumb, counting and spinning. We recommend that you spin thirty-three times at least once a day. You may build up to the thirty-three spins very slowly. If you are able to work up to thirty-three spins, three times a day, so that you are spinning ninety-nine times, well, we will see how long you stay on the planet-or at least in this dimension. When you complete spinning, however many times you spin, bring your palms together at chest level. Press them together, keeping your eyes open, and balance yourself with your feet a shoulder's width apart so that you feel anchored and still feel the spinning at the same time. This tremendously accelerates the spinning of the chakra systems inside your body, which tremendously accelerates the rate at which you can interpret and receive data.
I underlined the part where we are to bring our palms together. This reminded me of an excercize Florinda Donner showed during a conference I attended here in Mexico City in 1995: After movements designed to gather energy, one would bring the palms together and, hands pointing out, pretend to "insert" them in the chest, holding this tension in this manner for some moments. This would provoke the chest, shoulder blades and ribs to get open a bit, allowing a inflow of energy.

It seems Bringers of the Dawn quote suggestion to bring palms together, this would be pointing up, as if preying. I feel this is to be done by pressing the palms together, provoking the showlder blades to get open while feeling the spinning effects, to "tremendously accelerate" the rate at which one can interpret and receive data (if this thingy of bringing the hadns togethers actually means something significative, that is!)

Part of Gurdjieff's movements system seems to consist on "dancing" like this. This, as we know, comes from Derviche ritual dances: They spin to achieve a state of trance. And as we know, derviche religion might have been one of the sources for Gurdjieff's knowledge.

I think to spin 33 times takes you approximatelly x amount of time, and this is the recommended "dosis" -and not because to spin 33 or 99 times encloses in it's self some "key". But this is a detail.

The thing is, at the end of the essay, it is said:

Depression as a stepping Stone? said:
Suffering activates neuro-chemicals which turn on DNA receptors.
Which bring us to our courrent discussion, after a very interesting spin of the information.

I wonder, what would be the effect of spinning as described, on the vibration of the lower emotional center and on the further estimulation of the higher emotional center, and thus, on the release from this last, of a "inflow of joy"?

kenlee quoting Sojourner Institute said:
This elixir, unconsumed, accumulates and overspills its little vial, raining its concentrated torrent on the negligent soul.
I wonder about the conection between spining and depression.

I wonder about the function of spinning on the general process of the fusion of the magnetic center.

What do you think?
 
A

Art

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The First Victory. Comments on LKJ's "Depression as a Stepping Stone?"

From S.C., QFS, quoting Don Juan from Journey to Ixtlan:

"It is getting dark. The world is very strange at this time of the day. We are very noticeable here and something is coming to us. It may seem to be wind to you, because wind is all you know. Here it comes. Look how it is searching for us. It's something that hides in the wind and looks like a whorl, a cloud, a mist, a face that twirls around. It moves in a specific direction. It either tumbles or it twirls. A hunter must know all that in order to move correctly.

To believe that the world is only as you think it is, is stupid. The world is a mysterious place. Especially in the twilight. This can follow us. It can make us tired or it might even kill us. At this time of the day, in the twilight, there is no wind. At this time there is only power.

If you would live out here in the wilderness you would know that during the twilight the wind becomes power. A hunter that is worth his salt knows that, and acts accordingly. He uses the twilight and that power hidden in the wind. If it is convenient to him, the hunter hides from the power by covering himself and remaining motionless until the twilight is gone and the power has sealed him into its protection.

The protection of the power seals you like in a cocoon. A hunter can stay out in the open and no puma or coyote or slimy bug could bother him. A mountain lion could come up to the hunters nose and sniff him, and if the hunter does not move, the lion would leave. I can guarantee you that.

If the hunter, on the other hand, wants to be noticed all he has to do is to stand on a hilltop at the time of the twilight and the power will nag him and seek him all night. Therefore, if a hunter wants to travel at night or if he wants to be kept awake he must make himself available to the wind.

Therein lies the secret of great hunters. To be available and unavailable at the precise turn of the road.

You must learn to become deliberately available and unavailable. As your life goes now, you are unwittingly available at all times. To be unavailable does not mean to hide or to be secretive but to be inaccessible. It makes no difference to hide if everyone knows that you are hiding.

We are fools, all of us, and you cannot be different. At one time in my life I, like you, made myself available over and over again until there was nothing of me left for anything except perhaps crying. And that I did, just like yourself.

You must take yourself away. You must retrieve yourself from the middle of the road. Your whole being is there, thus it is of no use to hide; you would only imagine that you are hidden. Being in the middle of the road means that everyone passing by watches your comings and goings.

The art of a hunter is to become inaccessible. To be inaccessible means that you touch the world around you sparingly. You don't expose yourself to the power of the wind unless it is mandatory. You don't use and squeeze people until they have shriveled to nothing, especially the people you love.

To be unavailable means that you deliberately avoid exhausting yourself and others. It means that you are not hungry and desperate.

A hunter knows he will lure game into his traps over and over again, so he doesn't worry. To worry is to become accessible, unwittingly accessible. And once you worry you cling to anything out of desperation; and once you cling you are bound to get exhausted or to exhaust whoever or whatever you are clinging to.

I've told you already that to be inaccessible does not mean to hide or to be secretive. It doesn't mean that you cannot deal with people either. A hunter uses his world sparingly and with tenderness regardless of whether the world might be things, or plants, or animals, or people, or power. A hunter deals intimately with his world and yet he is inaccessible to that same world. He is inaccessible because he's not squeezing his world out of shape. He taps it lightly, stays for as long as he needs to, and then swiftly moves away leaving hardly a mark."
 

Pierre

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The First Victory. Comments on LKJ's "Depression as a Stepping Stone?"

Thank you Art for this very useful and clear analysis.

To start observing negative emotions dynamics, here are some tips that I have found useful :

* try to start with frequently occuring negative emotions / situations. Thus, with this 'familiar" stuff, you will be less surprised / emotionally overhelmed by what is going on.
* try to start with not-too endangering situations. Thus the survival belief/ reflex will be less powerful
* try to grasp the emotional dynamics earlier and earlier. The earlier it is caught the less powerful / overhelming it is, and the closer to the external triggers you get.

For the exercices (spinning for example), appropriate timing can reinforce the outcomes :
* find the appropriate time in the day / night when you are/feel the most efficient with those exercices (sunset, sunrise, night, ...)
* once you have found a suitable time, try to always practice days after days at this specific time (time cycle catalysator)

For centers transfert monitoring, some parameters might be helpful :
* breathing is essential (in the beginning try to keep it peaceful, natural, deep and slow)
* body position and orientation can help (relax, comfortable and straight back bone)
* chakras monitoring can help to follow / support energy transferts
 
D

dhess31

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The First Victory. Comments on LKJ's "Depression as a Stepping Stone?"

Art said:
Hey, what about spinning for a little while, ah?
Thanks for the thoughts Art.

BTW. I dunno about the spinning LOL. Seems a bit easy to me :)

Don
 

seek10

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
The First Victory. Comments on LKJ's "Depression as a Stepping Stone?"

Art said:
It sounds incredible that, by remaining calm when negative emotions arise, something "powerful" can occur. In .
This is very good Post and came up at a time when many of us going through -ve emotions.

I am trying to correlate this to what I do. Every day I get lot of -ve emotions which immediately lead to question why it is happening. Most of the time I see some reason like narcistic behaviour or inability to accept on my part or on the part of the person whose adverse remark created -ve emotion etc. Some times mind calms down, as I have habit repeatedly telling my self let it GO.
Some times, the impact of emotion disappear once I recognize the cause or forget about it in every minute priorities but comes back at a later time in the form of day dream etc.

I am still not in habit of self observe continuously while doing every minute duties .
If I use this approach, I recognize the -ve emotion( which I do) but how long to keep observing this emotion to keep it to its location. Of course this is not possible to quantify. I am just looking for some general guidelines . If the emotion disappear does it means it is not a -ve emotion at all ? . Since I didn't resolve the cause of it, I will remember it later and remaind my self of -ve emotion, the pain involved in it.

Paul
 

Fifth Way

Jedi Council Member
The First Victory. Comments on LKJ's "Depression as a Stepping Stone?"

Sorry but what are "-ve emotions"?

Spinning: Simple or not simple - I just tried it and it left me with an instant feeling of fun and also joy! Definitely uplifting. I will immediately include this in my daily routine. :D
 

manitoban

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The First Victory. Comments on LKJ's "Depression as a Stepping Stone?"

Hi Art and all, and thanks to the group for all the feedback and comments - it's really appreciated! It's so interesting to see how the group/networking thing really accelerates the learning process. Reading about the benefits of networking is one thing , but this thread is SEEING it in action.


Art said:
What was it that you did, as for the things that used to frustrate you, don't frustrate you anymore? How did you stopped that effect
I want to emphasize here, that I am speaking about really minor things - situations that in retrospect it's hard to imagine why I would get so frustrated. Things like when I 'm on the subway and someone pushes me out of the way to get a seat - that type of thing. Or when I find that my son has put crayons in the DVD player (again). Or even things like I used to get angry reading stuff in the papers that I didn't agree with.

With these type of things, and this is before I'd even heard about the Work, but it was after I had learned a little bit about the 4D STS feeding off us - I remember thinking "I'll be damned if I'm gonna get angry over (situations like I described above) and feed those creeps." And I would stop getting angry right then and there. I wasn't observing myself or anything like that, I think I was in my own way just trying to" fight back". I didn't feel any sweetness, I wasn't doing the Work, all I was doing was staying calm . And keep in mind, at that time, I still thought I had good reason to be annoyed in these situations, I could only see that I wanted to deprive the STS crew of food. It was a new idea to me that I had a choice as to whether or not I got angry. But gradually I noticed that I didn't get angry at these situations anymore, and I wasn't even thinking about "fighting back," just the annoyance didn't arise. Later on , as I began to learn about the Work, I began to see that I was/am a pretty easily offended person, easily frustrated, full of self importance - not a very nice person, actually. This was when I think I did start to begin the Work for real.

And I still get annoyed at many other things, thats for sure, but now I understand what to do, even if I find it hard to do it. And I am sure I will have to face much more serious situations if I am to keep going on the Path.

jOda - your insightful post has reminded me very clearly of the 'shutting down' process or ponerologization in the schools. It happened to me too, and like FW, I fear for my son when the time comes for him to go to school.

Dhess31 said:
So we are all in the same boat here.
So true. I was also thinking of the boat as the Truth Seekers Boat floating in the sea of lies, with Laura and Ark at the helm. The waters are choppy, all kinds of elements are trying to sink the boat, and there are even characters like EQ attempting to pull people overboard. But remember, the boat is still afloat, EQ did not succeed, and we are still onboard!
 

Fifth Way

Jedi Council Member
The First Victory. Comments on LKJ's "Depression as a Stepping Stone?"

manitoban said:
Things like when I 'm on the subway and someone pushes me out of the way to get a seat - that type of thing. Or when I find that my son has put crayons in the DVD player (again). Or even things like I used to get angry reading stuff in the papers that I didn't agree with.

With these type of things, and this is before I'd even heard about the Work, but it was after I had learned a little bit about the 4D STS feeding off us - I remember thinking "I'll be damned if I'm gonna get angry over (situations like I described above) and feed those creeps." And I would stop getting angry right then and there. I wasn't observing myself or anything like that, I think I was in my own way just trying to" fight back". I didn't feel any sweetness, I wasn't doing the Work, all I was doing was staying calm . And keep in mind, at that time, I still thought I had good reason to be annoyed in these situations, I could only see that I wanted to deprive the STS crew of food. It was a new idea to me that I had a choice as to whether or not I got angry. But gradually I noticed that I didn't get angry at these situations anymore, and I wasn't even thinking about "fighting back," just the annoyance didn't arise. Later on , as I began to learn about the Work, I began to see that I was/am a pretty easily offended person, easily frustrated, full of self importance - not a very nice person, actually. This was when I think I did start to begin the Work for real.

And I still get annoyed at many other things, thats for sure, but now I understand what to do, even if I find it hard to do it. And I am sure I will have to face much more serious situations if I am to keep going on the Path.
I can relate 100%! To all you said above.

However I disagree that the little things are little! I think they are in fact mayor. They are as Art described it (I think it was Art) that tiny little deviation of the course of the ocean-liner that will bring you in the end to an entirely different land.
Thinking of LAND:
I love your analogy of the Truth Seeker Boat.
Think of the beautiful land that boat will reach some day!!!!!!!!
 

dantem

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
The First Victory. Comments on LKJ's "Depression as a Stepping Stone?"

Whoa, I really appreciate your email Art!

Maybe I've read Mouravieff's books too long ago, and I really needed a refresh course. Grasping those concepts and feel this energy actually arising from your belly up, it's kind of the greatest victory of all. I felt that sensation in only two occasions and it was really something, to say the least.

The problem arise when the pressure over you is so hard that you begin to loose memory of it all, and if a big emotional burst occurs in this period you may loose it all. You reread what you've read before and it takes months of re-reading to came up with the real realization about how and how it works/has worked.

The same vibration actually happens also when you're tuned and colinear with other persons that feels and thinks exactly like you. In those occasions you may have a glimpse of it, but not the whole "banana".

Actually i find it difficult because I started again anticipating things, and furthermore, I do not still realize what's the difference between negative emotions that are useful to express to receive feedback, to being able to give mirrors to others, and negative emotions to be kept where they originate to let the lower emotional center vibrates together with the higher emotional center. Maybe I'm a bad reader, can anyone help?
 
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