District 9

[Turgon]

Quote from: DanielS
My friend and I thought that it was most definitely a take on prejudice and segragation and a very accurate representation of pathology in action.


_http://io9.com/5341120/5-things-you-didnt-know-about-district-9

District 9 was inspired by Neill Blomkamp's short film Alive In Joburg. But what many people don't realize is that he created Alive In Joburg's footage of people being interviewed about aliens, by using real interviews.

Thanks for the link. A very interesting read, some of the interviews in District 9 itself seemed so realistic, I couldn't help but think he was taking actual interviews and putting them into the movie. Yet changing the theme being people to aliens. Did you happen to read that article link 'Is District 9 Racist?'

It may be an alien-disguised apartheid allegory according to some (Okay, many), but does that mean that District 9 isn't racist itself? And no, this is more than metaphor.

Blogger Nicole Stamp risked the wrath of the internet by writing an essay called, bluntly, "District 9 is racist." Her reasoning, however, goes beyond the portrayal of the aliens in the movie - although she has problems with that, too:

The aliens are loathsome, trash-eating vermin who fight endlessly, destroy property for no reason, and piss on their own homes, which isn't a truthful or flattering allegorical comparison for actual black South Africans under apartheid. Apartheid is terrible because humans were denied rights. The "apartheid" of these aliens isn't that terrible — it's kind of justifiable, because they're actually dangerous, violent and destructive. I think it would be a better allegory, and a more sophisticated movie, if the aliens weren't unpleasant. If they were peaceful and kind, but the humans still demonized them, the film would be much more chilling; the horror would be "man's inhumanity to lobster-man", not "eew gross they eat pig heads!

But the allegory has little, if anything, to do with why she's convinced that Neill Blomkamp's critically-acclaimed movie is racist. No, that comes from its treatment of the humans in the movie:

The Nigerian gangsters are bloodthirsty, dishonest thugs, which is not a big deal — they're gangsters, I get it. They see the aliens as mere cockroaches with money, so they don't treat them well, and that makes perfect sense. They're just cruel, self-interested mercenaries, and in this, they're no worse than the film's (mostly white) government officials, who cold-bloodedly torture and murder the aliens. So far no racism, just characters with motivations.

But!

The Nigerians have a wailing "witch doctor". Who instructs them to eat the aliens. And they do it. Bloody, wriggling, and raw, of course. We're told that the black prostitutes "service" the aliens sexually. ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME??! And when Wikus' arm grows a claw, the Nigerian gang boss starts licking his chops, eager to commit cannibalism.

Yup, that's Hollywood's Africa the Africa we get from the media, isn't it. Black Africans shown as degenerate savages who'll have sex with non-humans and are pretty damn eager to eat people.

Disgusting.

The blog's readership is split between those who agree, and those who don't, even for the most random of reasons ("The director is from South Africa and is not racist, just an FYI," being my favorite).

The Nigerian gangsters are bloodthirsty, dishonest thugs, which is not a big deal — they're gangsters, I get it. They see the aliens as mere cockroaches with money, so they don't treat them well, and that makes perfect sense. They're just cruel, self-interested mercenaries, and in this, they're no worse than the film's (mostly white) government officials, who cold-bloodedly torture and murder the aliens. So far no racism, just characters with motivations.

What gibberish is this woman talking about? She is offended by the fact that the Black Gangsters are cannibalising aliens because they somehow believe it will give them power, and is declaring this to be racism in the movie, yet in the blog, she states that treating the alien race as mere cockroaches with money makes perfect sense, and that the White MNU Officials using them for torture and murder is just character motivation and no trace of racism is involved in these actions what-so-ever.

The aliens are loathsome, trash-eating vermin who fight endlessly, destroy property for no reason, and piss on their own homes, which isn't a truthful or flattering allegorical comparison for actual black South Africans under apartheid. Apartheid is terrible because humans were denied rights. The "apartheid" of these aliens isn't that terrible — it's kind of justifiable, because they're actually dangerous, violent and destructive.

She also seems to be offended by the fact that they piss on their homes and destroy property for no reason, which isn't a truthful or flattering allegorical representation of Apartheid. Now unless I'm mistaken, those houses were REAL, and maybe I'm wrong in my observation, but I didn't see those houses with the potential for properly running bathrooms or indoor plumbing or anything of that nature, so where exactly would they go to the bathroom? Maybe it's not a flattering representation, but people living under subjugation or poverty don't exactly have the luxury of indoor plumbing, and don't often respond to this type of oppression in peaceful ways.

I find it utterly incredible what she believes to be okay, tolerable and justifiable in this movie, as opposed to what she finds offensive, distasteful and out-of-line.

 

[Erna]

[quote author=DanielS]
Thanks for the link.
[/quote]

Sure. :)

[quote author=DanielS]
Did you happen to read that article link 'Is District 9 Racist?'
[/quote]

I did notice the link in one of my searches, but skipped it.

It may be an alien-disguised apartheid allegory according to some (Okay, many)

It is an alien-disguised apartheid allegory. But I think I should maybe just see it now first. I am intrigued by all the diverse reactions towards it, and the controversy surrounding it.

But from what I understand thus far (at least one of the messages), it looks like the director took his inspiration from the xenophobic clashes, and brought in the horrors of apartheid as if to say; just the other day people were perpetuating these crimes against you, and now you have become them...

But like I said, it might just be one element of the movie.

The director is from South Africa and is not racist. Just an FYI.

Impossible!

 

[Beau]

My feeling is that the lady claiming the movie is racist is just trolling and looking for a way to stir up controversy. She is being rather broad in her claim about racism. Their was only 1 Nigerian in the film who attempted to eat flesh, and that was the gangleader. It's pretty ridiculous to claim "This is Hollywood Africa" when the movie was independently financed and flimed on location in Johannesburg with all South African actors and extras. And, it's not too far out there to think that anyone seeking power, like the Nigerian warlord was, would try any and all means to achieve such power. I don't think race had anything to do with it. But maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Erna]

[quote author=go2]
Thanks to “E” for providing the Joburg background. It added a depth and understanding of Bollenkamp and District 9.
[/quote]

You're welcome. :)

I was listening to the radio breakfast show when they were discussing the movie. It's the 'Rude Awakening' show where everything is a joke and nothing is sacred, so no philosophical exchanges.

They were discussing the aliens in the movie being called prawns, and I just want to add that it's not the prawns you find in the ocean. It's these cricket type creatures we have here in Joburg called Parktown Prawns (Parktown is a Joburg suburb).

They're only found here, but apparently in New Zealand there's a similar type creature with the same genetic makeup which they call a veti (hope it's the right spelling).

 

[Vulcan59]

They're only found here, but apparently in New Zealand there's a similar type creature with the same genetic makeup which they call a veti (hopes it's the right spelling).

Yeah it's called a weta. Looks very similar to it's Joburg cousin.

 

[Erna]

Q&A with Neill Blomkamp:

_http://www.channel24.co.za/Content/Movies/Features/654/2326d84339bc4f2c8332adf33d1f771b/26-08-2009%2002-08/QA_with_Neill_Blomkamp

The movie's only starting here tomorrow (we're always a bit behing it seems). Neill Blomkamp is a bit ... too negative ... or too cynical for my taste. Maybe he's just realistic, I just pick up a strong expat (maybe) bitterness or something in his answers. I might be wrong though, I'm bias. He's has achieved something major though. Doesn't sound like it was easy, but I found this interview bothersome - not feel good...

This is a bit odd though:

Q: A bit off-topic, but in other interviews you've said you believe humanity will achieve Singularity [a period in which we stop being humans and transcend]?

Neill: Wow, you really did your research...


Q: I know. This is why you should offer me a job.

Neill: [laughs. Cruelly. Sound of journalist's heart breaking] I think Raymond Kurzweil (future theorist) was probably accurate. You'll get a crossover between man and machine merging into the post-human. Where he was inaccurate, I think, was that his predictions were based on a fairly stable world. You'll get something like Joburg first. And out of the ashes 200 years from now, we'll enter the trans-human phase.

 

[Cyre2067]

Below be spoilers in comments.........

Wow. That's interesting. ;) Don't you like to think about things? I mean, without having every variable given to you? Isn't that what research is about?
Being a writer as a hobby, I really like movies and stories that require me to think and figure things out, and District 9 was good that way...it didn't just hand me answers, I had to pay attention and look for images, themes, and ideas everywhere I could in the story.....and I didn't get to see the whole thing. :D

Sure, but not for entertainment. When I see a movie I enjoy character development, plot, cinematography, acting, and special effects. The character development was really isolated to one character, which is fine, but the plot makes little to no sense. I mean, I guess if that's your shtick and you like that then it's a much more entertaining movie. I see the plot as the backbone of a story, and here we have one which is incomplete.

Ah, I didn't recall that part. It just seems like the writers had to invent some reason that the aliens didn't integrate. Logically, if it were only a few 'bad apples' then those would be removed. I just find it hard to believe that none of the aliens would have been integrated, employed using their technology or know how by corporations who were interested. I guess I find the concept of 'dumb aliens' a little ass-backward.

I think it's a bit naive to ask why they didn't integrate. Did the North Vietnamese integrate well with the South? Does any foreign language speaking group integrate well with a native population when they are looked down upon and seen as an anvil around the neck of society? Look at all the issues with immigration in the US. Other countries as well. People just don't want foreigners coming in and using their natural resources and taking away jobs from locals. Their is no reason to think every alien species, especially one created within a fictional universe, would be any more intelligent than a human is, and look at all the examples from our world of exactly what occurred in the movie happening. I don't think it's all that illogical.

Okay, but we're not talking about just any foreigners. We're talking about aliens with advanced technology and know-how. They may not have been any more intelligent then humans, but their technology and knowledge of how to use that technology, how to build it, the concepts behind it - are lucrative. To think that those skills and knowledge were left to rot in a concentration is just silly, imho.

This brings me back to my point - while the whole alien thing is a great way to get attention to human social issues it just doesn't work in this framework and leaves the viewer wondering - 'what the hell?'

[quote author=Heimdallr]
[quote author=Puck]
My complaint is that it wasn't explained and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I work in genetic research, so how any sort of genetic material could function as a fuel - at least in the way we think of it - is beyond my current level of comprehension. [/quote]

I think on that point you need to suspend belief and allow yourself to be lifted into an alternate universe. I've read some interesting theories on the fuel liquid. I think that's a lot more interesting than just being told what everything means/is by the creators. [/quote]

Heh okay, but you're missing the point that it doesn't make sense. "Fuel genetically alters man into Prawn" = huge plot hole.

[quote author=Heimdallr]
[quote author=Puck]Using humans as a reference point, anyone of us can use a gun, or a power tool. They have an almost intuitive design, and we've seen them used at least once. The only explanation in this case would be that they never saw or used their own technology before - and imho, that doesn't make any sense. Sure you could conjecture reasons why - but that's the writer's job, not ours. [/quote]

Not if the writer wishes to leave some things up to the viewer to come to conclusions. I personally see that as a quality that more people should possess in mass media today.[/quote]

Okay, but you see where that'd fail applying it to any other story? Like take a bunch of the background out of the Matrix, or Watchmen, or Xmen for example and you get a loosely connected series of events which lacks a coherent plot. That's how i feel about D9.

[quote author=Heimdallr]
[quote author=Puck]Sure, that's logical. Or perhaps their nervous systems required a nutrient that wasn't available on earth, but again this is all conjecture that we're doing. That's not really why I see a movie, I feel like D9 was more like half a movie, with the other half being filled in by guesswork. [/quote]

Well, I happen to love movies that don't spoonfeed me everything. It shows that the creators actually respect people and want them to come to their own understanding of what it all meant. Their are plenty of other filmmakers who do this as well, David Lynch comes to mind. It seems people like that tend to be really polarizing. [/quote]

That's probably why you liked D9 and I thought it was kinda lame. I think you and Gimpy may be misreading me, and I apologize if that's so. My main complaint is that it lacked a coherent plot, the background was flimsy at best, and the story arch itself made little sense. I get that you like that, and find it admirable, but it's not what I've come to expect or enjoy in a story. I like the plot to be full, for it to make sense, and for the writer's to have the creativity for making it believable - none of which I saw in D9.

 

[Erna]

Saw it! Loved it! The camera work didn’t bother me, it made it very real, as if you’re running alongside them. I think Sharlto Copley was superb. He's a typical apartheid bureaucrat who's eyes are opened. Only a South African could play this role. Leonardo diCaprio was not a convincing South African in Blood Diamond at all, from his attempted accent to his supposed ‘hatred’ of the continent and his racism.

I think you are failing to grasp the overall theme of the movie and its allegories to the American empire and its occupation of numerous territories throughout the world.

I agree. The covert ‘endorsement’ the then apartheid government (MNU and it's operators in the movie) had from Western powers is never explicitly stated in the movie, although it's not nessecary.

The bad guys were the mercenaries and their corporate bedfellow Multi National United, not humans as a whole. I took that as as much social commentary than plot design.

I agree.

This is not so much a film about aliens as it is a social commentary on racism and pathological behaviour. It is important to know, and this is a point that Blomkamp (the director) stresses as well, that South Africa has had a large influx of Zimbabwean refugees, and that in spite of the countrys past racism between blacks and whites, there is now similar views from the black community towards the refugees. This lack of understanding, repeating history, is one major part of the point he is trying to make, it seems to me.

This was definitely one of the messages conveyed by Blomkamp.

My feeling is that the lady claiming the movie is racist is just trolling and looking for a way to stir up controversy.

Either that or she’s just ignorant and lacking scope.

 

[Erna]

plot makes little to no sense

I see the plot as the backbone of a story, and here we have one which is incomplete

The audience isn’t given closure which leaves a feeling of hopelessness. This was deliberate and intentional. Blomkamp despondency with the aftermath of apartheid, and his bleak view of the world in general, makes the hopeless ending he created come as no surprise.

The character development was really isolated to one character.

Wikus never really wakes up to the deplorability of the atrocities being committed in which he has a hand. That’s typical. His direct involvement with Christopher and his son, only slightly confronts him with his own deadened sense of morality, but his motivation and ensuing actions stays selfish – his social programming is too strong. Where he tells Christopher that the tents at District 10 is even smaller than Christopher’s shack, is another example of his awareness of the hand he had in the oppression, yet he still doesn’t really confront it.

He’s a moral man, and the director cleverly introduced the scene where he throws cat-food at the aggressive aliens to distract them, instead of shooting them, to make the viewer aware of this fact.

This movie really isn’t about aliens. It is a clever infusion of aliens (instead of blacks) to bring the reality of those days to people’s attention. The lines included in the script were so typical of those days - “they derail trains and burn down schools for their own recreation” etc.

His disgusting portrayal of the aliens is accurate of the general white consensus in those days, because we were only ever confronted with scenes on tv of burning tyres, riots, necklacings and mayhem. That’s why I say Nicole Stamp is ignorant, because the typicalness and accuracy of it is something she’s unaware of, together with her ignorance of muti.

The townships were filthy like that, with no electricity or running water or rubbish removal – some still are.

This movie is just loaded with so much symbolism and messages. Moral people (the majority anyway) being made complicit in the oppression of others, due to social programming. A climate of fear and programming, justifying the extreme measures taken to ensure our own survival. The 'threat' justified the means, as one can see today as well with the US and their wars...

When I was little, it was common to have black convicts come work in the garden, under armed guard. My mother once asked one of them why he was in jail, and he answered “cause I didn’t have my pass book with me, miesies”. Miesies was their pronunciation for missis. Everybody had these little reminders along the way that something is not right with this picture. Opportunities to recognize their own programming, yet was unable to, still are.

I was unaware of the craziness of it all growing up. I was too consumed in my personal life. When I was 10 or thereabouts, our domestic worker asked me to teach her how to read. I was excited about this, I got the blackboard and the chalk and ‘all systems go’, and we started with A. I drew the big A and the small a, and she couldn’t understand why there must be 2 symbols for the same thing. I said there is a purpose for it, but we’ll get to that later. She kept joking and pursuing the point of how stupid it is, and I became impatient and started laughing and said “this is going to be more difficult than I thought” and she walked out. I said to her a couple of days later we can proceed if she wants, and she said she doesn’t want to learn to read anymore… I still read her bills and her letters for her today.

A previously persecuted people is a dangerous thing. Wee see it with the Jews, and we saw it with the Afrikaners.

From The State of Africa – A History of Fifty Years of Independence – Martin Meredith:

In the concluding act of the partition of Africa, Britain, at the height of its imperial power, set out to take over two independent Boer republics, the Transvaal and the Orange Free State, and incorporate them into the British Empire, assuming that a war of conquest would take at most a matter of months. It turned into a gruelling campaign lasting three years, requiring nearly half a million imperial troops to finish it, and left a legacy of bitterness and hatred among Afrikaners that endured for generations.

Faced with guerrilla warfare for which they were unprepared, British military commanders resorted to scorched-earth tactics, destroying thousands of farmsteads, razing villages to the ground and slaughtering livestock on a massive scale, reducing the Boers to an impoverished people. Women and children were rounded up and placed in what the British called concentration camps, where conditions were so appalling that some 26 000 died there from disease and malnutrition, most of them under the age of sixteen. All this became part of a Boer heritage passed in anger from one generation to the next, spawning a virulent Afrikaner nationalism that eventually took hold of South Africa.

I sometimes wonder what the Palestinians will turn into if they ever get their freedom…

History will keep repeating itself until we learn to ‘know thyself’, and until we recognize the xenophobic programming we are exposed to.

Q: You're being asked to comment on Apartheid and South Africa's political history in international interviews. Do you feel a sense of responsibility to the country?

Neill: People keep asking the wrong questions. The movie wasn't crafted to be a political movie. Sure, I have some experience with it. In the 80s, you would see yellow Casspirs drive by. It's just the -shite- you grow up with, y'know? But I do feel some sense of weight on me. That's becoming more apparent.

"Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race.”

 

[genero81]

I saw it and was entertained. There was the missing piece that made it impossible for us to determine the level of technology. They had fancy looking guns, but they did look like "bottom feeders," and had lost all direction. The way they were treated makes perfect since, given the circumstances. We would want them isolated, while waiting to extract technology from them. They turned out as intelligent and humane as us.

But the main reason I appreciated it was because it was original. Not just a different version of something already done several times over.

 

[genero81]

When I say "we," I mean the Military Industrial Complex.

 

[RedFox]

Have just seen this (only came out here this week) and thought it was great. It was also quite traumatising in places, and until reading this thread I couldn't name it, but yes there was quite a sense of hopelessness.

I actually found the end quite hopeful, even if it was open (which I liked a lot). Having the film open from the beginning was new, and I can see why it may cause people to be confused.
I think knowing some history of Africa and apartheid is also helpful....but even as just a stand alone sci-fi film it was really good. Especially if you like things that aren't your standard film.

*****spoiler alert*****

I actually found myself laughing at the absurdity of the MNU and the War Lords fighting over the aliens guns and then each other for control of it.....that they would distroy it(unintentionally?) to control it.

I actually liked the documentary style, because when I watch documentaries (for example I watched The Shock Doctrine on TV recently) I always watch with a critical eye and the thought of, what am I watching? what are they not telling us? where am I being led? what are they trying to say that they can't say on this medium?
Applying this to the film, it became really quite rewarding...

To say that too much was missing.....imagine it had happened and all we got was the news? Then this documentary comes out after the events.....would we be able to fill in the peaces (that the film actually shows us)?? I actually found myself thinking of 9/11 documentaries...

I laughed pretty loud when the TV news declared a 'terrorist attack'

It would be interesting to know if the style and the seeds it may plant, may make people look at documentaries and news differently?

I think part of the reason it was so shocking (and deliberately so violent, both in language and bloody chunks) was because it held up a mirror to pathology (in its extremes) and brought it home. But it did it in a way that was alien (the shock) and familiar (the docu style/news clips)....so in that respect one can hope it shakes some social programming loose in those that watch it.

fwiw I was a lot more critical/vocal towards the news that happened to be on TV (my mum was watching) when I got in from the film. Just my 2 cents :)

 

[Franco]

I saw this movie yesterday and I didn't care much for it at all.

Spoiler Alert!

I realize that the movie is a social commentary on aparthied, racism and corporatism but I don't think it was done very well. The writer portrayed the aliens as stupid, garbage eating, cat food addicted, illegal weapons making, murdering, useless creatures. I wonder if that is what he thinks of the people in the slums of S. Africa or refugees in general? The one alien who garnered any sympathy saved himself and his son and left all his fellow aliens behind!
And why demonize the Nigerians on top of it by making them sick cannibals? Could he have made the bad guys some generic group of thugs? Members of all groups exploit others, naming the Nigerians specifically makes me question what the writer was thinking.
The focus on the nefarious activities of the MUN was too brief to really make a statement on the evils of corporations.
The gore and violence was over the top and quite drawn out.
Overall, I don't think the movie did a good job making the point that it was attempting to make. At several points during the movie I wondered exactly what the point was.

A portion of Nigerians that live in South Africa are involved in heavy crime here so it's quite a big stereotype here, they are refered to The Nigerians as a gang of organised crime a lot as apposed to people from Nigeria so I guess it would look like a cheap shot at the Nigerians as a whole.



I dont honestly believe the movie was trying to make too much of a point as it was quite comical most of the time, everyone will likely just find their own meanings to it anyway.

I thought at least it was something different to the typical dramatised American flavour of ET movies and also they were stereotyping other races here too including the white main character who would be considered something akin to a Redneck in America, I'm curious if a lot on non South Africans struggled with his heavy Afrikaans accent?

 

[Alana]

Hey all.

I watched the movie few weeks ago, after a friend who loved it recommended it.

Reading all your comments in this thread, i can see both why those who liked it did (the message is powerful, the way the film was made and presented is shocking to the core) but i understand those who didn't as well. Personally, i felt like getting up and leaving midway. I felt a huge need to cry/throw up/and scream all at the same time, but the aisles both to my right and left were full (note to sit at the edge next time in the theater, just in case!), so i stayed to the end and at one point all those emotions came out as uncontrollable laughter.

The other female who was with me later said that she found the movie as disturbing as i did, though the two males who accompanied us liked it a lot.

I have watched movies and documentaries that make excellent points and presentations of the psychopathic dominated world of ours without using as much gore. This was what bothered me the most. All those gory details and violence. It actually hurt all over me to watch it. And it was a waste of hurt imo, because it was about a movie.

Those who read the news on a daily basis, do feel heartbroken each day for real, living, feeling human beings subjected to the psychopaths' sadistic tortures. The reality in Gaza, Darfur, Iraq, Afghanistan, Rwanda... the list can cover all continents and most countries, is sadder than any movie can ever portray, realistically (as possible) or allegorically. One might say that it might have gotten people thinking... Perhaps. But if there are people capable of thinking out there and are waiting for some gore-full, cannibalistic, violent movie to make them realize that apartheid is still alive, that those in power use us and dispose us at will, while they didn't get it from their evening news, their personal lives and just looking at every aspect of their reality, well, i don't know what to say.

FWIW...

Disclaimer: These are my personal thoughts and emotions, which don't say much about the movie, many people i know and some here, did find enjoy watching it. I tend to get too into the movie i am watching

 

[T.C.]

But if there are people capable of thinking out there and are waiting for some gore-full, cannibalistic, violent movie to make them realize that apartheid is still alive, that those in power use us and dispose us at will, while they didn't get it from their evening news, their personal lives and just looking at every aspect of their reality, well, i don't know what to say.

I don't know if you've always been able to get it from your evening news and personal life, or if you always looked at every aspect of your reality, but many people don't. How do you reconcile what you wrote above with what you know about mass brainwashing, propaganda, media control?

Remember, the C's said there are a bunch of beings forming something called Thor's Pantheon, and they are in charge of Project Awaken, which uses movies as at least one of their tools. There wouldn't be a need for Project Awaken if people weren't asleep.