Do-it-yourself liposomal nutrients

[Mr.Cyan]

I'll do the month of detox and then take it when I feel I need it. Good to know that it may also help if I'm very tired. I cut out coffee a number of years ago but still drink black tea. However, I can feel that it's not good for my system and am getting ready to it as well. Maybe the vitamin C will come in handy there?

Oh yes. Be careful to not take too much vitamin C before going to bed. It might give you insomnia due to its energizing effect. I have made this mistake a couple of times and always regretted the missed opportunity to sleep well.

Thanks Gaby for the advice on Vitamin C, actually I have been taking most of my vitamin C supplements at night ! - Im definitely going to change the timing of taking them, and see if my sleep is better :)

 

[patty2292]

After making several successful lipo vit-c's using the ingredients and method Laura suggested at the start of this post, im now unable to make it with a decent consistency.

Im following the exact process the same, but its coming out with bits of lumpy gooey lecithin in.

The only alteration is that i am now using a hand/immersion blender instead of my old proper blender. Is it vital for the use of a blender to get the lecithin properly mixed in? Or is it something else, i.e not heating up my lecithin to a high enough temperature or simply not hand blending it for a longer period of time. But that being said ive blended it for minutes on several occasions before putting it in the ultra sonic cleaner. So it does look as if its the use of a hand blender. Has anyone else had any similar problems?

Ive still been drinking it with the clumpy bits of lecithin, as im guessing its better than nothing, but its still not the same from when i first started making it. And it doesnt taste as 'mixed' together and full bodied as it normally did.

When i make the next batch this week, im going to leave it on heat a little longer and if it doesnt solve the problem, re-purchase a blender.

Another method i have tried is leaving the lecithin in cold water for 24+hours in the fridge to let it slowly dissolve and turn to pretty much orange water where it can be easily blended. But even this is now backfiring and it doesnt seem to work.

 

[trendsetter37]

I'm a bit skeptical that the liposomal vitamin C has to be kept below certain temperatures during the ultrasound process in order to reduce degradation. How is it that the violence of the ultrasound, necessary to create liposomes, is ok but that the side effect of the violence, heat and increased temperature, is not ok?

I know this is late...

Ultrasound is not always just violent it can also setup areas of calm (small to no displacement) nodes (where things will coalesce into spheres) when thinking about standing waves and such. Liposomes are spheres and anything that will contribute to making "spheres" would aid in the creation of said liposomes.


Standing wave

Example of ultrasound creating spheres.

http://<iframe width="560" height="...sY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Note that water takes the shape of its container. So in this video you can observe the shape a liquid would take-on within the nodes of an ultrasonic standing wave.

Heat on the other-hand can act as the antithesis to any form of coalescent action (there are exceptions to this but not for liposomes or emulsions AFAIK). Or in other words it tends to undo the action of applying ultrasound to the lipo-c mixture. Creating liposomes increases order adding heat decreases order (increase in entropy) which would inhibit order and the creation of liposomes to a certain extent. At least that is how I understand the process.

Edit:

Another method i have tried is leaving the lecithin in cold water for 24+hours in the fridge to let it slowly dissolve and turn to pretty much orange water where it can be easily blended. But even this is now backfiring and it doesnt seem to work.

Are the ingredients still the same? As in same original packaging or have you had to re-up your supplies and the new batches are not coming out the same...just brainstorming here.

 

[patty2292]

Another method i have tried is leaving the lecithin in cold water for 24+hours in the fridge to let it slowly dissolve and turn to pretty much orange water where it can be easily blended. But even this is now backfiring and it doesnt seem to work.

Are the ingredients still the same? As in same original packaging or have you had to re-up your supplies and the new batches are not coming out the same...just brainstorming here.

I have changed the ascorbic acid to another brand, but the lecithin has stayed the same since I started. And that's what seems to be the problem

 

[trendsetter37]

Another method i have tried is leaving the lecithin in cold water for 24+hours in the fridge to let it slowly dissolve and turn to pretty much orange water where it can be easily blended. But even this is now backfiring and it doesnt seem to work.

Are the ingredients still the same? As in same original packaging or have you had to re-up your supplies and the new batches are not coming out the same...just brainstorming here.

I have changed the ascorbic acid to another brand, but the lecithin has stayed the same since I started. And that's what seems to be the problem

If the lecithin has remained constant from the beginning and you were able to make a successful batch of lipo-c with it in the past then I would say the new brand of ascorbic acid could be an issue. Or am I overlooking something?

 

[patty2292]

Another method i have tried is leaving the lecithin in cold water for 24+hours in the fridge to let it slowly dissolve and turn to pretty much orange water where it can be easily blended. But even this is now backfiring and it doesnt seem to work.

Are the ingredients still the same? As in same original packaging or have you had to re-up your supplies and the new batches are not coming out the same...just brainstorming here.

I have changed the ascorbic acid to another brand, but the lecithin has stayed the same since I started. And that's what seems to be the problem

If the lecithin has remained constant from the beginning and you were able to make a successful batch of lipo-c with it in the past then I would say the new brand of ascorbic acid could be an issue. Or am I overlooking something?

I don't don't think it's a problem with the ascorbic acid directly. That is disolved in water fine prior to adding it. From what I'm seeing, it's a problem with the actual lecithin dissolving and turning into that whole smooth creamy colour. So the problem is the little bits of un-dissolved/ blended lecithin.

But saying that; maybe I'm overlooking something! Either way I'm going to try afew alterations with heat and blending time, and purchase the original ascorbic acid for safety.

 

[fabric]

I've never applied heat when making lipo-C. At what stage do you heat it? What I do is soak the lecithin overnight in the fridge. Next day I mix ascorbic acid and baking soda as per Laura's recipe, slowly to keep up with the fizz. Once that's all blended I pour in the lecithin and blend it again until it's mixed well. Then it all goes into the ultrasonic cleaner and I process it for about 30min. Mine has a heater option but I never use it. Haven't had any issues doing that way and it seems to come out pretty well.

 

[patty2292]

I've never applied heat when making lipo-C. At what stage do you heat it? What I do is soak the lecithin overnight in the fridge. Next day I mix ascorbic acid and baking soda as per Laura's recipe, slowly to keep up with the fizz. Once that's all blended I pour in the lecithin and blend it again until it's mixed well. Then it all goes into the ultrasonic cleaner and I process it for about 30min. Mine has a heater option but I never use it. Haven't had any issues doing that way and it seems to come out pretty well.

Heat one cup of distilled water in a ceramic coated or stainless steel pan on your stove (do not heat it in a microwave oven) until almost boiling.
Pour the water into your blender and add three level tablespoons of lecithin and blend until all of the lecithin is totally dissolved in the water.
In one cup of cold distilled water, dissolve one level tablespoon of ascorbic acid. Make sure it is totally dissolved, very important!
Add the ascorbic acid mixture to the lecithin mixture and blend well.
Pour the mixture into the ultrasonic cleaner and turn it on. Stir frequently.
The cleaner will turn itself off about every two minutes or so. You continue to stir frequently and turn the cleaner back on until ALL of the foam is gone. Repeat: Continue to stir and turn the cleaner back on until ALL OF THE FOAM IS GONE!! This will take about 30 minutes or so. When done you will have a mix that is about the color of milk. There will be some settling but shouldn't be much, less than 5% of the mix or so.

I have tried it the way you do it fabric, and it has worked also for me in the past! I think the heat is to just disolve the lecithin in a quicker time frame for blending.

 

[hlat]

Heat one cup of distilled water in a ceramic coated or stainless steel pan on your stove (do not heat it in a microwave oven) until almost boiling.
Pour the water into your blender and add three level tablespoons of lecithin and blend until all of the lecithin is totally dissolved in the water.
In one cup of cold distilled water, dissolve one level tablespoon of ascorbic acid. Make sure it is totally dissolved, very important!
Add the ascorbic acid mixture to the lecithin mixture and blend well.
Pour the mixture into the ultrasonic cleaner and turn it on. Stir frequently.
The cleaner will turn itself off about every two minutes or so. You continue to stir frequently and turn the cleaner back on until ALL of the foam is gone. Repeat: Continue to stir and turn the cleaner back on until ALL OF THE FOAM IS GONE!! This will take about 30 minutes or so. When done you will have a mix that is about the color of milk. There will be some settling but shouldn't be much, less than 5% of the mix or so.

I think the heat is to just disolve the lecithin in a quicker time frame for blending.

I think the above quoted procedure is an earlier iteration, and not as good as the latest procedure which incorporates more understanding like letting the lecithin mixture sit overnight and using sodium ascorbate. I do not think you should be using heat when you are close in time to using the ultrasound, since heat may prevent liposomes from forming.

I've never applied heat when making lipo-C. At what stage do you heat it? What I do is soak the lecithin overnight in the fridge. Next day I mix ascorbic acid and baking soda as per Laura's recipe, slowly to keep up with the fizz. Once that's all blended I pour in the lecithin and blend it again until it's mixed well. Then it all goes into the ultrasonic cleaner and I process it for about 30min. Mine has a heater option but I never use it. Haven't had any issues doing that way and it seems to come out pretty well.

I have tried it the way you do it fabric, and it has worked also for me in the past!

I think this is in line with the latest procedure.

Are you using ascorbic acid alone without any baking powder?

 

[Laura]

The early recipe was using liquid lecithin. To use lecithin granules, you must put them in the water and let them sit overnight in the fridge.

Here is the info extracted from several posts back in the thread:

I made a first batch today and did it this way and it turned out beautifully.

I put 3 tablespoons of non-GMO lecithin in a cup of distilled water and let it soak for about 4 hours.

Then, I put 3 tablespoons of ascorbic acid powder in another cup of distilled water and dissolved it.

Next, I poured both into the chamber of the ultrasonic thing and set it on 25 minutes. It was done in about 12 minutes, so will not set it so high next time. It was slightly thickish and creamy and all the foam was gone though you can get it foamy again by shaking it.

Because we are really interested in the product crossing the BBB efficiently, I decided this morning to see if the dehydroascorbic acid would make up in solution as well. If you recall, this form of vitamin c is the one that crosses the BBB very well and also goes directly into the mitochondria. See the following links for more info and also do some searching on your own:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehydroascorbic_acid
http://www.pnas.org/content/98/20/11720

So, I began with three cups of water (709 ml) and put in 9 tablespoons of ascorbic acid (126 ml). I stirred until it was dissolved.

Then I began adding sodium bicarbonate in half teaspoon increments, stirring, letting the foaming and bubbling work out from each addition before adding another. It was probably about 6 teaspoons total (or a bit more) before there was no further reaction.

Then, I took the three cups of distilled water (I'm always using distilled water here, so assume that if I don't mention it) with 9 tablespoons of lecithin granules that had been soaking in the fridge overnight, and poured it into the ultrasonic chamber followed by the 3 cups of dehydroascorbic acid I had just produced. Turned the unit on for 12 minutes. It acted exactly as the acidic vitamin C mixture, becoming creamy and slightly thickened, so I'm assuming that the process works as well with the DHA as it does with the plain ascorbic acid.

I decanted the solution into glass bottles and we sat around with the shot glass to try it. As one of us said: "That's ten times easier to swallow than the other stuff." It is true. The intense sourness is gone and it tastes more salty and nutty.

So, we decided to try to flavor it. Using PURE vanilla extract, we put in about 5 drops and it made it taste just a bit like rice milk. (We added this one drop at a time to about a cup of solution and tasted after each addition.)

Note that you cannot make it sweet because the vitamin C and sweetness vie for the same cell receptors (it may be just sugars, and not sweetness per se, but I'm not taking chances) and you don't want to put any blocks in the way of getting the fullest load of vitamin C into the cell.

Laura, would you be able to post the exact recipe on how you prepare this particular mixture? Sounds very interesting ...
Thanks!

It's a few posts back. Here:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,13208.msg392905.html#msg392905

The only change is that after dissolving the ascorbic acid in water, I then began adding sodium bicarbonate in half teaspoon increments, stirring until foaming stopped between each addition. When the solution was finally just barely reactive, I called it done. Then, added it to the lecithin solution in the ultrasound chamber and put it on for 10 to 20 minutes. Each batch seems to be slightly different but usually 12 to 15 minutes is about right.

This morning I decided to double the vitamin C concentration so I put 18 tablespoons in the distilled water. It took awhile for it to all dissolve with frequent stirring. Finally, it was mostly dissolved and then I began adding the sodium bicarbonate in full teaspoon increments. Probably about 10 or more. LOTS of reaction so I moved it to a large glass mixing bowl. Finally, reaction diminished, so I added it to the normal lecithin solution (3 cups water, 9 tablespoons lecithin left soaking in the fridge overnight and then hit with the immersion blender for a minute). It took longer for this batch in the ultrasound chamber - about 20 + minutes. But it seems to have made up just fine even with double the amount of Vitamin C.

So, a solution that is doubled in vitamin C, that's 192 grams in 6 cups. That's 4 actual grams per ounce of liquid 20 effective grams.

 

[patty2292]

I think the above quoted procedure is an earlier iteration, and not as good as the latest procedure which incorporates more understanding like letting the lecithin mixture sit overnight and using sodium ascorbate. I do not think you should be using heat when you are close in time to using the ultrasound, since heat may prevent liposomes from forming.

Are you using ascorbic acid alone without any baking powder?

I was not using any baking powder, only abscorbic acid and lecithin. I found this before i was participating on the forum years ago, so just read it and jumped in without reading any further into the thread or the procedure. Just kind of stuck with it without any further questions.

The early recipe was using liquid lecithin. To use lecithin granules, you must put them in the water and let them sit overnight in the fridge.

Thank you for the simple clarification, i was unaware of any other form of lecithin! The extracted quotes helped, as sometimes it took me 1-2 hours of the ultrasound for the foam to be gone. This length of time caused the ultrasound to heat up itself quite abit, adding further to the dangers hlat mentioned above about the prevention of liposomes.

 

[lifeissweet]

Hello Folks,

I followed a recipe and successfully made a liposomal vitamin C, curcumin and resveratrol mixture. It blended very well, no foam. I want to make liposomal milk thistle, glutathione, and GABA (the GABA would be in its own container). I have the powders and am ready to go.

However, I haven't a CLUE how to measure out the powders in order to have the correct ratio to the sunflower lecithin. How much glutathione to lecithin, for example? How much water? Then, I don't know how to dose. I'm tempted to hire a high school student who is good at math to help me figure this out.

Can anyone give me a mathematical formula to help me determine ratios for mixing and dosing? I am bedridden with severe CFS and my brain fog is getting the best of me. Any help would be enormously appreciated!! I'll pay it forward.

GABA - single serving
1/4 teaspoon (750 mg)

Milk Thistle - single serving
450 mg (I don't know how much that is - a little more than 1/8 tsp?)

Glutathione - single serving
1/2 teaspoon (approx. 1 g)

 

[Divide by Zero]

I'm not sure what the correct ratios are.
You may also want to check out the iodine thread here to help with your ailment:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,13371.0/topicseen.html
It's a lot of reading, but well worth it.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tU0VnKLYJ4vxdfS7aaDLdJTeWROsAcBxZVTQVm5BVLY/edit
A document that summarizes a lot of key points from the thread.

 

[Monnom]

Hello ! I am new to this forum and came across this extremely instructive discussion while researching making my own liposomal vitamin C - as buying it is starting to become really too costly given how much my family and I consume.

I have a question that I have not seen addressed, maybe I missed it in which case can you just direct me to the relevant page ? It is discussed at one point that the solution needs to be poured directly into the chamber of the ultrasonic bath in order to allow the ultra-sounds to work properly to form the liposomes. Someone has mentioned it but it did not have answers or reactions. I am kind of concerned about the fact that the vitamin C could react with the metal of the chamber (as vitamin C typically corrodes metal, which is why it is usually advised to use a non-reactive stirring tool like a plastic straw).

I read here : https://www.quantumbalancing.com/liposomalC.htm the following :

"When the lecithin-ascorbic acid mix is poured directly into the steel well of the ultrasonic unit the ultrasonic vibrations will cause nanoparticles of metal to migrate into the liposomal vitamin C solution. Therefore it is better to use borosilicate glass as the receptacle to hold the lecithin-ascorbic acid solution. The ultrasonic waves pass from the metal bottom of the ultrasonic unit directly through the borosilicate glass flask and into the fluid."

This other person here : http://www.qualityliposomalc.com/process/index.html says he uses a glass beaker that he suspends in water that is in the chamber using some carboard (you can see the picture on his page) :

"I use a cardboard form to keep the beaker from touching the bottom of the ultrasonic tank. I have a stainless steel basket as well, however, the ultrasonic power is noticeably less when I use the basket instead of suspending the beaker in the water with the cardboard."

All this information is quite confusing - I would love to hear your thoughts and recommendations on this. Thanks !

 

[Divide by Zero]

I use a good quality ziplock bag inside the ultrasonic cleaner.
Ziplock brand does not use BPA in their plastics.
http://www.bag-e-wash.com/leaching.html

It blocks less of the ultrasonic waves than glass/paper/cardboard.

It also makes cleaning up a snap!