Documentaries on psychopathy

[Laura]

This guy, he says all the right things about psychopathy and makes these seemingly accurate observations about his son. Until one sees that his writing is not real-time and not sequential. At the time when he started writing his blog, he already threw in the towel; so now he is using this information to dissociate himself from his son by presenting him in a certain way.

This is always very sad to see.

Yes, very sad because we don't know if his version is actually true. A soul in struggle can sure act psychopathic sometimes.

 

[realitybugll]

The reasonings this husband and wife had for adopting a child are concerning to you all. I guess to me too.


Both parents seem to not be the "feely" type. or very emotionally expressive. The wife does not seem like the "motherly" either because she did not want to raise a baby.

here is one quote that comes to mind from the blog:

"My wife, who is one of the strongest people I know, started crying and screaming. She took off down the hallway towards the courtroom, ready to strangle the first probation officer she saw. I caught her and held her. I tried to quiet her, but I’m sure they could still hear her rants of hatred through the closed courtroom door.

the background for this instance is that both the parents are viewing Lucas in shackles --about to be locked up for at least a couple of days.

so its interesting the husband is implying that his wife probably does not cry often. in this way she is "strong". in this instance however she does breakdown. at this instance the husband does not cry at all. my inference is that he is even "stronger" than her. if she is strong...then he is "stronger"... in the sense that he doesn't show his emotions or repress's and doesn't feel them.


At the same time my impression after reading the entire blog is that the husband is a "good person". I do not think the husband or wife inflicted any damage to lucas except through the initial adopting process--lucas being separated from his foster parents. unfortunately by the time the husband is writing the blog --as someone noted--he has already given up playing with lucas. we don't get a good sense of lucas's life with his parents age 5-11.



To me it seems like Lucas is an extreme psychopath or "super psychopath" is what I mean. maybe like genetic predisposition to being a psychopath combined with neglect from his birth-mother and abuse in the extremely formative parts of his life. maybe it is not genetics but just the abuse at an extremely early age which induced psychopathy. I could not fathom that 1/5 children I interact with, (C's figures) are similar to Lucas. I would not think that most psychopaths have the level of sexual deviency lucas displays.

I think you guys bring up good points considering the initial adoption and what this says about Harry and his wife. At the same time I am not opposed to Harry's dissociation from his child. I think this is the right course of action to take if your son is a psychopath. I think harry has done the research to determine to a very high degree that his son is a psychopath.

]Yes, very sad because we don't know if his version is actually true. A soul in struggle can sure act psychopathic sometimes.

i do not find much evidence that lucas is in struggle. perhaps a tiny bit with his sexual deviancy. his father mentions that he cries--in shame i think when it is discovered what he does to the stuffed animals. maybe the father is inaccurately portraying his child to a high degree. I don't think so. maybe a small degree, yes.

I have some questions concerning Lukes behavior... especially his sense of time, the way he lives "in the moment" and his inability to be bored. I think I'll hold off for now... I didn't expect such a reaction to his dad Harry. there is some things he wrote and some impressions I got of Harry that are "questionable" I might go back and look. Also, it's funny before reading the comments here, I actually really understood the decision to adopt. you guys give me some food for thought.

 

[Hildegarda]

At the same time my impression after reading the entire blog is that the husband is a "good person". [..] We don't get a good sense of lucas's life with his parents age 5-11.

He probably is an upstanding person in personal life, and a valued employee. He just has low emotional affect, poor understanding of what he is getting into, and now also compassion fatigue on top of that.

I do not think the husband or wife inflicted any damage to lucas except through the initial adopting process--lucas being separated from his foster parents.

The adoptive parents were willing to take credit for the boy’s initial strides, when he was doing well. Yet, when he started having problems, that’s all hard-wired.

Even a psychopath is a product of both genes and environment. And of all environmental influences, parenting challenges especially brings out both the parent’s strength and weaknesses.

In addition, it’s a two-way street. While they influenced the kid, he influenced them too as people (and the father does acknowledge it). A sobering thought, that.

To me it seems like Lucas is an extreme psychopath or "super psychopath" is what I mean.

Is he really this “extreme” of a psychopath? He lies, he steals, he shows sexual deviance, yes. But even though he is glib and charming, but lacks intelligence and motivation for elaborate deceptions. He also isn’t that aggressive – he didn’t torture animals, commit arson or pull knife on people. His prospects are bleak, but he isn’t an evil superman who will definitely either sail through life raking millions or waging wars, or beat serial killer records. Not yet anyway. But his father thinks him a monster, and after turning 11 he practically lived either in solitary confinement or in a facility.

For any difficult child, at preteen age the battle is just beginning. But I know some people still find it realistic to say at this point, “yes, my kid is messed up and probably cannot be fixed, and it’s a tragedy, so I’ll totally downgrade my expectations and goals for him and shoot for independent living and life free of crime, using whatever help I can get”. It has a very different feel from what this father is doing.

At the same time I am not opposed to Harry's dissociation from his child. I think this is the right course of action to take if your son is a psychopath.

Neither am I. I started reading the last posts and then re-started from the beginning of the blog. For a while, all I thought was, respect to these parents for sticking with the adoption and keeping their marriage intact. It is not often mentioned, but 1 adoption out of 100 is dissolved or disrupted, and for children who were older at the moment of adoption it can get as high as 20%, due to just these sort of issues.

But then I began to wonder whether it would have been better for all to disrupt the adoption earlier, so the child had a chance with a different caregiver or state-run services before. When one reads stories of RAD or other adoption difficulties, there is a small but noticeable group of cases in which kids did better after leaving adoptive families. It could be due to a simple change of scenery or better personality match with the caregivers. Another theory is that for some reason these kids project all the trauma on the first people who try to bond with them – “the designated villains” -- act it out and then do not transfer it on others as much. Impossible to say what’s better, and it’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

I do want to thank you for the link. This is some of the most thought-provoking stuff on psychology that I read for a while. Tons of questions and no definitive answers for anything. The blogosphere’s reaction too is all over the place, nobody who reads it remains indifferent.

 

[Laura]

He lies, he steals, he shows sexual deviance, yes. But even though he is glib and charming, but lacks intelligence and motivation for elaborate deceptions. He also isn’t that aggressive – he didn’t torture animals, commit arson or pull knife on people.

Except for sexual deviance (and I didn't read that part so don't know what they mean by it), the above sounds like your average troubled young person cast adrift in today's world, raised by narcissists, in a society that has gone mad.

 

[Guardian]

The reasonings this husband and wife had for adopting a child are concerning to you all. I guess to me too.

Good guess. These people, like many who adopt for similar reasons, view the child a POSSESSION. He's not their creation, he's not a part of them, he is OWNED by them. They "love" him like they "love" their house and their car.

Most Adoptees are stripped of their identities at birth, and then expected to become what the people who bought them want them to be...an accessory to an illusion.

Maybe the kid's not psychopathic at all, maybe he's just really angry?

 

[Nević Nenad]

He lies, he steals, he shows sexual deviance, yes. But even though he is glib and charming, but lacks intelligence and motivation for elaborate deceptions. He also isn’t that aggressive – he didn’t torture animals, commit arson or pull knife on people.

Except for sexual deviance (and I didn't read that part so don't know what they mean by it), the above sounds like your average troubled young person cast adrift in today's world, raised by narcissists, in a society that has gone mad.

That could be this:

Two weeks ago we did finally get to see where he lives. They brought us in the back door and we had to go straight to his room. The other kids were kept in a different part of the house. We searched his room and found several ‘issues’ including gansta-rapper Fat Joe lyrics, notes for how to draw graffiti, a drawing of a penis, the start of a hole right in the center of his brand-new mattress, about 30 used tissues (that he used to masturbate) strewn all over and under his bed, curse words and a swastika written on his bed, and several other pairs of shoes that he had ‘borrowed’ from other kids in the house.

Interestingly he couldn’t decide what to have for dinner. We had to pick something for him. He had the same problem the next morning picking something for breakfast. He has always had a problem making decisions. But now he has become so used to other people making decisions for him that he simply couldn’t do it himself.

But that’s minor. The important thing is that all three of us were happy. We enjoyed being with each other. We didn’t want to take him back and we were saddened when we left the facility without him.

We came back home and checked the video tape. Remember the video system we installed? Yeah, we had it on. And he knew it.

Our camera was set up to look down the hallway past his bedroom and bathroom door. I left the light on in the hallway so the camera could record all night. The video showed me go into his room to kiss him goodnight and then head upstairs to bed. A minute later it showed Lucas come out of his room, look directly at the camera, turn the hallway light out and go back into his room. He knew exactly what he was doing.

A few minutes later the video showed my wife go into the bathroom. The light in Lucas’ bedroom was still on and it spilled out into the hallway, so the camera picked this up. The camera also picked up Lucas coming out of his room, getting down on his hands and knees, and looking under the bathroom door. A few minutes later Lucas hurriedly got up and ran back into his room, just as my wife exited the bathroom, completely unaware of what had just happened.

The camera showed my wife saying goodnight to Lucas and turning out Lucas’ bedroom light.

A few minutes later, after my wife had gone to bed, the light in Lucas’ closet turned on. I could tell it was the closet light because that light is fluorescent and looks blue on camera. That light turned off 25 minutes later and the camera recorded nothing more.

We investigated his closet and found one of his previously clean bed sheets and a T-shirt crumpled and hidden under his other clean sheets. They were both soiled with a variety of fluids. We called him at the facility and asked him what he was doing in the closet after we had gone to bed. He admitted to masturbating, but wouldn’t admit to leaving a soiled sheet and t-shirt where they shouldn’t have been.

That he was masturbating, even in his closet, is no big deal. This is completely normal behavior for a 13-year-old boy. That he used a lubricant is also no big deal. However the fact that he did so shortly after peeping at my wife in the bathroom does raise some concerns. The fact that he also urinated and defecated on the sheet and t-shirt, and then hid the soiled linens under the clean ones, raises even more concerns.

But the most concerning thing to us is that he’s learning to blend in. As long as we were with him he was great to have around. He has learned to control his behaviors when other people are watching. Good! But he is plotting and waiting, and the INSTANT nobody is watching, he acts.

1) Lucas cut a hole in another stuffed animal and used it to masturbate.

2) Lucas used the handle of a plunger to experiment with anal sex on himself. He them smeared the blood from this experiment on the bathroom wall.

3) Lucas poked several holes through the shared wall between his bedroom and our guest bathroom so that he could spy on his babysitter.

Yesterday morning I walked into Lucas’s room to tell him it was time to go school. I noticed a lot of stuffing, like from a pillow or stuffed animal all over his floor. I asked him where it came from. He said it was stuffing from a stuffed animal. He said he wasn’t sure which one. I told him to find out and give me that animal.

I returned about 10 minutes later and asked for the animal. He said he still wasn’t sure which one. I told him that I knew he was lying. He denied it. I insisted that he really does know which one. He admitted that he did and reluctantly handed over ‘Tiger’ a stuffed Pit Bull, his favorite. I put Tiger upstairs and we left for school.

At about 5pm I picked him up and we talked a bit more about Tiger and the stuffing. I asked him why he was destroying his favorite toy. He insisted he was not destroying it. I explained that obviously he was because while beans will just fall out of a stuffed animal through a little hole, fiberous stuffing will not. It needs to be pulled out. He started to cry (in an angry way) and insisted that whatever he told me I wouldn’t believe, so why say anything. I asked him to tell me his side of the story and he said he could PROVE it to me. He suggested I go get her and see for myself that the hole was big enough that stuffing would just fall out of her.

This was the first time I had heard Lucas refer to Tiger as a ‘her’, and the fact that he emphasized the ‘her’ twice in the conversation struck me as a bit odd.

When we got home I sent Lucas to a corner and went upstairs to examine Tiger. Tiger had a large hole between her hind legs, large enough for stuffing to fall out of, if properly manipulated.

I sat Lucas down and told him that, yes, the whole was big enough for stuffing to fall out. Then I asked him to explain how the hole got there in the first place. He told me that he was angry at us so he took a pencil and some thumb tacks and stuck Tiger several times. After doing this repeatedly, and on several occasions, the hole formed and grew. He also admitted to sticking pencils and thumbtacks into the neck of another of his stuffed animals, because he was angry at us. This fact he had no problem telling me.

I focused on Tiger and asked him why the hole was where it was, why wasn’t the hole in Tiger’s side or in her head? He said that part was just closest. I asked him if he stuck anything else in Tiger. He was silent for a long time. I asked if he stuck his fingers into Tiger. He nodded. I asked if he stuck anything else into Tiger. He started crying and admitted that he stuck his penis into Tiger.

I asked how often he did this. He admitted to doing this once or twice a week for about two months. I asked him again why the hole was located where it was. He finally admitted that he made the hole there because that is where the hole on a girl is.

I understand the sex part. He was acting out things that he has seen. It's the violence that concerns me. Stabbing, ripping, especially in this particular part of the body, all done while angry at us. This is something new.

And on one occasion he broke at the neighbors house, masturbate over neighbors lingery and filmed it with their video camera, but I cant find that at the moment. That as far as I can find.


Hildegarda

He probably is an upstanding person in personal life, and a valued employee. He just has low emotional affect, poor understanding of what he is getting into, and now also compassion fatigue on top of that.

And a perfect example of psychopathic society, and possible OP. I'm not finding a slight glimpse of a emotion in his writings, only whining and desperation because they didn't get the golden child that they dreamed of (damned Hollywood lied again) just a problematic and stupid kid. I can see "Harry" (if I remember the name exactly) as a socially perfectly acceptable facade, but there is nothing behind that facade.

Actually I think that this is very good illustration of psychopathic and OP world. Narcissists raising a psychopath. Maybe the child is not psychopath (sounds more like retarded) but thanks to that kind of "parents" and the overall treatment that he gets, he sure will be.

Interesting is that child begins with that behavior only after arriving at their house, seems that he was normal before that. And his first foster parents didn't want him just because he was wetting in the bed at night at the age of 6.

 

[Guardian]

Interesting is that child begins with that behavior only after arriving at their house, seems that he was normal before that. And his first foster parents didn't want him just because he was wetting in the bed at night at the age of 6.

Or so they say. In addition to being abandoned, repeatedly ... I think it's pretty obvious the child has been sexually abused, repeatedly.

#1 way psychopaths procreate.

 

[JonnyRadar]

IMO, that blog is chilling. The son's behavior is messed up, to be sure, yet each entry is ended with a sort of "cliffhanger" as though the author were writing a novel. Not to mention the headline "I feel a lot like Harry in the TV series “Dexter”. I know for a fact that my adopted son is a psychopath." It sounds to me like they would take their adopted son on the talk show circuit if they could. As if the whole thing were a performance of some kind...

 

[Buddy]

IMO, that blog is chilling. The son's behavior is messed up, to be sure, yet each entry is ended with a sort of "cliffhanger" as though the author were writing a novel. Not to mention the headline "I feel a lot like Harry in the TV series “Dexter”. I know for a fact that my adopted son is a psychopath." It sounds to me like they would take their adopted son on the talk show circuit if they could. As if the whole thing were a performance of some kind...

Yep, I agree. The whole thing just hurts my heart because now that the kid has been categorized and seen as a 'thing' even though every aspect of his being is (most likely) connected to all other influences that came before the present moment, he can be distanced from without much empathy and all while avoiding any blame and/or responsibility for the kid.

I'm also wondering if Lucas is aware of all this information being posted to the web and if not, how he will react once he finds out.



Edit: for clarity of meaning.

 

[NormaRegula]

Or so they say. In addition to being abandoned, repeatedly ... I think it's pretty obvious the child has been sexually abused, repeatedly.

The situation with Lucas anally abusing himself, then smearing the blood and feces on the wall is a big fat clue in that regard. Wonder why this possibility has not been fully explored...or at least mentioned in the father's blog? Maybe I missed something.

Spent much of last night reading the blog posts. Very sad, chilling and puzzling.

 

[Laura]

My god, sounds like a kid being driven mad by psychopaths if you ask me.

 

[Hildegarda]

Actually I think that this is very good illustration of psychopathic and OP world. Narcissists raising a psychopath. Maybe the child is not psychopath (sounds more like retarded) but thanks to that kind of "parents" and the overall treatment that he gets, he sure will be.

Bluntly and accurately put, I agree.

 

[Buddy]

Actually I think that this is very good illustration of psychopathic and OP world. Narcissists raising a psychopath. Maybe the child is not psychopath (sounds more like retarded) but thanks to that kind of "parents" and the overall treatment that he gets, he sure will be.

Bluntly and accurately put, I agree.

And that feels like the impression I was picking up on. Thanks for putting it into words.

 

[realitybugll]

I feel like since I started this discussion I have an obligation to respond to everyone. I am so overwhelmed. I am almost crying at this point I think. or was almost. I have probably written 5 pages on different text documents, and I feel like I have to get it up now. some strange things are going on with me...


think I might to do e.e tonight.

I'll quote some of my "overwhelmed-ness" below... maybe get some responses up later. then again it seems really strange to post things that you wrote up previously. cause I am always thinking new thoughts. I'm quoting but I would shrink the size etc. just to distinguish it was written previously but also cause it doesn't pertain to the topic. but after all my writing i feel like a need to put something up.

Hildegarda, you kind of saved me thank you...

i stumbled onto the last end of your post ~30 mins ago.

I do want to thank you for the link. This is some of the most thought-provoking stuff on psychology that I read for a while. Tons of questions and no definitive answers for anything. The blogosphere’s reaction too is all over the place, nobody who reads it remains indifferent. "

your very welcome. this calmed me down a lot.

After reading all this discussion I feel like downloading the blog. going through it again, highlighting it and examining it closer and taking notes. what would be the point to that though.

I stumbled upon this blog I think querying for child psychopathy. I saw my 13 year old cousin recently and have had a neighbor for almost 2 years now, a six year old at the moment, which lead me to thinking thinking about psychopathy a bit more, in the context of children though. both (cousin & neighbor) i think are narcissistically wounded. Also I am not an adult yet so the topic I think interests me at a self-introspective level. after all I have narcissistic behaviors. the topic too is semi-related to some research and thinking I was invigorated to do on the topic of "greenbauming"/"satanic ritual abuse".

To be honest I read the blog as a fun and exciting story. at the same time "grieving" for the parents. I read the blog kind of how I read the wave series: "fun and exciting story". I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. its how learning occurs for me a lot.

here is what I am thinking: I am grateful and overwhelmed at the replies I received on the thread. I am grateful because i view the response as an affirmation of the significance of my thoughts so sometimes I won't even take the time to read a response thoroughly or engage in a discussion. I am just happy I got a positive response.

this is what I said

have some questions concerning lucas's behavior... especially his sense of time, the way he lives "in the moment" and his inability to be bored. I think I'll hold off for now... I didn't expect such a reaction to his dad Harry.

I'm not sure this is true. I do not want to discuss harry, and neither Lucas's behavior. though I am probably more interesting in discussing the latter. the first posts I did in the topic, I was kind of like sharing what I found. I didn't expect such a feedback. A lot of it I understand was to help me in the way I viewed the material? that is very nice… I didn't mean to waste anyone's time. but I fee like I did.

I'm really struggling the last few months (a lot of us are) I wanted to share what I was reading, I found it interesting. but then I feel like I don't want it discuss it anymore.. I don't get this ?

I think the whole forum-communication is rough on me. I am actually more "confident" on forum, then talking in person. but the whole thing about the forum is that real effort needs to be devoted in this kind of communication. thats what I think. and this "effort" is hard for me.

I composed replies to some of your responses. but I feel like somehow I am not communicating just responding, and FOR WHAT? to waste other people's time on a subject that I feel isn't connected to life at the moment. one moment this subject "child psychopathy" is relevant and interesting to me. now it is pointless and a waste of time.

I think a lot of what this comes down to is my self importance. but also this feeling of being worthless.

edit: to sum up:

there is so much material. so much to think about. but then why post anything at all. and first i have to respond to everyone's responses. oh... this is so strange.

idk does that make my thoughts clearer. hopefully....

 

[Hildegarda]

Hi wetroof,

What you describe is rather common. That's what it feels like when one are too identified with a topic. This happens when one connects a topic with personal experience (i.e., here, something that's going on in your life, your friends, and other research), and bases his interpretation on the whole package. When others provide an alternative interpretation, one feels personally rejected.

I've been there, and so have many others. It is always easy to see in another, but very hard to acknowledge in oneself. Yet, doing that can really help to get to the bottom of deeper issues.

One thing I want to emphasize is, please do not stop communicating, contributing, responding etc, even if you feel stung. Aside from everything else, it keeps your energy flowing and helps you process everything better. It will further help if you remove from yourself the pressure over having to respond to everyone and everything. In the first place, the need to frantically type answers to every message, endlessly clarifying yourself on points that people, you feel, misunderstood you, is a sure sign to be identified with the topic enough to be blinded by an emotional rush. This is a time to stop and breath calmly until a different understanding emerges. And second, even if you brought something up, it's not like you <i>own</i> the discussion, and other people are only supposed to clap -- at least it doesn't work this way here on this forum. People will often pick up the ball and run with it, and that's ok; it doesn't mean that you are excluded, everyone is part of the game, it's a given.

Bottom line is, nothing bad happened: everybody was interested and learned stuff, and you too, so that's great.

Thank you again for the topic,