Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election


The Living Force
FOTCM Member

I am happy that people saw Trump differently because I was completely wrong.

[quote author= axj]Are you more interested in seeing yourself and the world objectively, or is it more about being right and disagreeing with everything I say on principle?[/quote]

I just don't get why you also defended Trump on what I consider his dumb moments. That's all.

[quote author= axj]What is childish is this passive-agressive mode you are in. You should really look at that.[/quote]

Ok, I will look at it.

But you saying that I pretend to know it all is just... Well, you really think so based on everything I said? It was all a learning experience for me and there where moments before that I agreed with you, and disagreed after.

Trump was a big mystery for me.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Regarding the question about the possibility of Trump being involved in sexual abuse, there was this in the latest Session from November 12. said:
Q: (L) Alright. This is something that's bugging me. Two people told me Trump was a pedophile because he was hooked up with this Jeffrey Epstein. Obviously, nobody is claiming that Trump is an angel or pure as the driven snow. Trump himself doesn't say so. But that kind of bothers me. Did he ever knowingly... How to ask that?

(Pierre) Did he knowingly have sexual interactions with an underage individual?

A: No

Q: (L) So, whoever is making these claims or charges or whatever... It's either a setup, or...

(Joe) You know who's actually leading the most recent one? He's been accused of having sexual whatever with a minor and the girl is being kind of "taken care of" or groomed by a former producer of The Jerry Springer Show.

(L) Oh, you're kidding?

(Joe) He's a diehard anti-Trump kind of guy. I mean, The Jerry Springer Show?!

A: Consider the source.
Q: (Joe) Is one of the main reasons that Trump and every other president who comes into power immediately goes and makes nice with Israel, has that got a lot to do with this Epstein guy and others like him who blackmail everybody? Essentially, does Israel control by blackmailing? It's not so much that Israel's our best friend, but...

A: Close. Watch closely for events that will reveal the "man behind the curtain."

Q: (L) And that is in the context of Jeffrey Epstein and Israel blackmailing people in power - literally everybody.

(Joe) Do they have anything on Trump?

A: Not much.

Q: (Joe) That gives him some leverage.


A Disturbance in the Force
Laura said:
This is the point I'm getting at: what if Trump is the catalyst for a LOT of misery and thereby jumpstarts the BIG CHANGES. Because, let's face it, it was going on as death by a thousand small cuts for years and years and people are just worn out. They would rather face the amputation than the constant fight against slow moving gangrene. And that is basically the choice that has been made, perhaps.


So, bottom line is: for good or ill, I think Trump is a catalyst, an accelerator of events and the relief I have been feeling is related to that more than anything else. Because, obviously, practically speaking, it's pretty much "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

Coming back to the "sign" of the death of Leonard Cohen and "hallelujah" ... well, as you noted, it was related to the destruction of Babylon.... and that was described in Revelation as cosmic.

Interestingly enough, Leonard Cohen's last album released three weeks before he died is called "You Want It Darker."


FOTCM Member
Laura said:
So yes, let's analyze where we went off-track, but be excellent to each other!


Laura said:
Now, ya'll taka a look at Peggy Noonan's piece for the WSJ:


Donald Trump doesn't know how to be president. He isn't a reader of the presidency. He's never held office. There's little reason to believe he knows how to do this.

The next president needs you. This is our country. Help him.

Thanks for sharing Laura, will post on social media.

*ADDED: This is a hopeful article calling for calm, reason, and unity and I especially appreciate her appeal to patriots at the end of the article, FWIW. Regardless of whether Mr. Trump turns out to be a hero, Hitler Jr. or something in between, Americans need to start taking some responsibility for the political situation in between elections. Appealing to their sense of patriotism seems like a good way to go about it.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Joe said:
JGeropoulas said:
The "people" are not with him - Trump lost the popular vote in the election (he just won through the US's quirky 'electoral college' system). So don't think this was a landslide.

The more I think about the claim that Hillary won the popular vote the more I think it's bogus, that the numbers were fudged. I mean, you have a male candidate who is lambasted primarily for being a sleeze and misogynist for the entire campaign, and his opponent is a woman, and yet a majority of women still vote for HIM?

From that I don't conclude that the women vote numbers were fudged in favor of Trump (after all, if anyone was gonna rig this one it was gonna be the Hillary camp) but that the Hispanic and African American votes were fudged against Trump.

Basically, I don't buy the perennial more or less 50-50 split in votes in Western countries. How is it that in most major votes, elections or referendums, the country is always divided down the middle? Is a large majority of the people never on the page on ANY major issue? That 50-50 split is pretty useful for the worn out 'left right' paradigm we've lived under for decades.

When one party gets 51% in an election, it's always plausible to have the other party get elected 4 or 5 years later because the last election was 'so close'. That way these bogus left/right parties can maintain control and pursue their identical policies forever.

If an outsider President or PM were ever elected in a Western nation with, say, 80% of the vote and if he/she performed decently enough, it would be pretty hard to justify why, in an election 4 years later, his/her support had plummeted and he/she was kicked out.

That's why "they" never want a truly populist and decent leader to get into power, with their left/right track record, they'd never be able to get him out, short of assassinating him. Russia is an interesting contemporary example of this, where Putin has been in power in some capacity for the last 16 years, and there's no sign of his popularity waning, and guess who really, really hates Putin and Russia.

Just to clarify, the quote Joe's referring to was not from my comments, but from a spam email quoted in Aragorn's post on November 11, 2016 (to which I was replying).


FOTCM Member
luc said:
Laura said:
Now, ya'll taka a look at Peggy Noonan's piece for the WSJ:
A Trump administration will be populated by three kinds of people: loyalists, opportunists and patriots.

The loyalists earned their way. "To the victor belong the spoils." Back a long shot for president, and you'll get a midlevel office in the Executive Office Building. The opportunists have a place in every administration — they spy an opening, have a friend who has a friend, wind up as undersecretary to the assistant secretary. That's life among the humans, especially the political humans.

It is the patriots who matter, many of whom kept away from Mr. Trump in the past. They are needed now. They have heft, wisdom, experience and insight.

Donald Trump doesn't know how to be president. He isn't a reader of the presidency. He's never held office. There's little reason to believe he knows how to do this.

The next president needs you. This is our country. Help him.

I thought a bit about the opportunists as well yesterday - I'm not sure if we can brush it off so easily as a necessary evil in politics. That may be true, but we know that power-hungry people who smell power and influence can quickly 'change' in order to get a piece of the cake, to the point of co-opting a party or movement, so I think it's important to watch out and distinguish the 'patriots' from the 'opportunists', which isn't always easy.

This seems especially important in Europe now. My guess is that the FN in France, the AFD in Germany, UKIP in GB etc. will see an influx of questionable characters, spellbinders and psychos who think they can get some office or even become leaders of these movements. These things are described in detail in Political Ponerology and we should keep this in mind IMO. I wrote a little about how this unfolded with the Green party in Germany here, which I think is really a textbook example of how this works.

ADDED: Fascinating article from the Wall Street Journal. Maybe real reconcilation and bridging the pointless ideological gaps (in other words, 'normal people') will prevail, after all? Oh my, such an epic 'wait and see' moment...

I agree. I fear the author is underestimating the potential influence of opportunists (establishment insiders) and the potential damage that can be done by those who "were not so benign or healthy" as she put it. The saker posted a pretty insightful article on this topic a few weeks before the election, on October 22nd: said:
The USA are about to face the worst crisis of their history and how Putin’s example might inspire Trump

Watching the last Presidential debate was a rather depressing experience. I thought that Trump did pretty well, but that really is not the point here. The point is this: no matter who wins, an acute crisis is inevitable.

Option one: Hillary wins. That’s Obama on steroids, only worse. Remember that Obama himself was Dubya, only worse. Of course, Dubya was just Clinton, only worse. Now the circle is closed. Back to Clinton. Except this time around, we have a women who is deeply insecure, who failed at every single thing that she every tried to do, and who now has a 3 decades long record of disasters and failures. Even when she had no authority to start a war, she started one (told Bill to bomb the Serbs). Now she has that authority. And now she had to stand there, in front of millions of people, and hear Trump tell her “Putin outsmarted you at every step of the way” (did you see her frozen face when he said that?). Trump is right, Putin did outsmart her and Obama at every step. The problem is that now, after having a President with an inferiority complex towards Putin (Obama) we will have a President with the very same inferiority complex and a morbid determination to impose a no-fly zone over Russian forces in Syria. Looking at Hillary, with her ugly short hair and ridiculous pants, I thought to myself “this is a woman who is trying hard to prove that she is every bit as tough and any man” – except of course that she ain’t. Her record also shows her as being weak, cowardly and with a sense of total impunity. And now, that evil messianic lunatic with a deep-seated inferiority complex is going to become Commander in Chief?! God help us all!

Option two: Trump wins. Problem: he will be completely alone. The Neocons have a total, repeat total, control of the Congress, the media, banking and finance, and the courts. From Clinton to Clinton they have deeply infiltrated the Pentagon, Foggy Bottom, and the three letter agencies. The Fed is their stronghold. How in the world will Trump deal with these rabid “crazies in the basement“? Consider the vicious hate campaign which all these “personalities” (from actors, to politicians to reporters) have unleashed against Trump – they have burned their bridges, they know that they will lose it all if Trump wins (and, if he proves to be an easy pushover his election will make no difference anyway). The Neocons have nothing to lose and they will fight to the very last one. What could Trump possibly do to get anything done if he is surrounded by Neocons and their agents of influence? Bring in an entirely different team? How is he going to vet them? His first choice was to take Pence as a VP – a disaster (he is already sabotaging Trump on Syria and the elections outcome). I *dread* the hear whom Trump will appoint as a White House Chief of Staff as I am afraid that just to appease the Neocons he will appoint some new version of the infamous Rahm Emanuel… And should Trump prove that he has both principles and courage, the Neocons can always “Dallas” him and replace him with Pence. Et voilà!

I see only one way out:

The (imperfect) Putin model

When Putin came to power he inherited a Kremlin every bit as corrupt and traitor-infested as the White House nowadays. As for Russia, she was in pretty much the same sorry shape as the Independent Nazi-run Ukraine. Russia was also run by bankers and AngloZionist puppets and most Russians led miserable lives. The big difference is that, unlike what is happening with Trump, the Russian version of the US Neocons never saw the danger coming from Putin. He was selected by the ruling elites as the representative of the security services to serve along a representative of the big corporate money, Medvedev. This was a compromise solution between the only two parts of the Russian society which were still functioning, the security services and oil/gas money. Putin looked like a petty bureaucrat in an ill fitting suit, a shy and somewhat awkward little guy who would present no threat to the powerful oligarchs of the semibankirshchina (the Seven Bankers) running Russia. Except that he turned out to be one of the most formidable rulers in Russia history. Here is what Putin did as soon as he came to power:

First, he re-established the credibility of the Kremlin with the armed forces and security services by rapidly and effectively crushing the Wahabi insurgency in Chechnia. This established his personal credibility with the people he would have to rely on to deal with the oligarchs.

Second, he used the fact that everybody, every single businessman and corporation in Russia, did more or less break the law during the 1990s, if only because there really was no law. Instead of cracking down on the likes of Berezovski or Khodorkovski for their political activities, he crushed them with (absolutely true) charges of corruption. Crucially, he did that very publicly, sending a clear message to the other arch-enemy: the media.

Third, contrary to the hallucinations of the western human rights agencies and Russian liberals, Putin never directly suppressed any dissent, or cracked down on the media or, even less so, ordered the murder of anybody. He did something much smarter. Remember that modern journalists are first and foremost presstitutes, right? By mercilessly cracking down on the oligarchs Putin deprived the presstitutes of their source of income and political support. Some emigrated to the Ukraine, others simply resigned, and a few were left like on a reservation or a zoo on a few very clearly identifiable media outlets such as Dozhd TV, Ekho Moskvy Radio or the newspaper Kommersant. Those who emigrated became irrelevant, as for those who stayed in the “liberal zoo” – they were harmless has they had no credibility left. Crucially, everybody else “got the message”. After that, all it took is the appointment a few real patriots (such as Dmitri Kiselev, Margarita Simonian and others) in key positions and everybody quickly understood that the winds of fortune had now turned.

Fourth, once the main media outlets were returned back to sanity it did not take too long for the “liberal” (in the Russian sense, meaning pro-USA) parties to enter into a death-spiral from which they have never recovered. That, in turn, resulted in the ejection of all “liberals” form the Duma which now has only 4 parties, all of them more or less “patriotic”.

That’s the part that worked.

So far, Putin failed to eject the 5th columnists, whom I call the “Atlantic Integrationists” (for details, including their names, see here) from the government itself.. Even the notorious Alexei Kudrin was not fired by Putin, but by Medvedev. The security services succeeded in finally getting rid of Anatolii Serdyukov but they did not have power needed to put him in jail. I still think that a purge will happen while Alexander Mercouris disagrees. Whatever may be the case, what is certain is that Putin has not tackled the 5th columnists in the banking/finance sector and that the latter have being very careful not to give him a pretext to take action against them.

Russia and the USA are very different countries, and no recipe can be simply copied from one to another. Still, there are valuable lessons from the “Putin model” for Trump, not the least of which that his most formidable enemies probably are sitting in the Fed. One Russian analyst – Rostislav Ishchenko – has suggested that Trump could somehow force the Fed to increase interest rates, which would result in a bankruptcy domino effect for US banks which might be the only way to finally crush the Fed and re-take control of US banking. Maybe. I honestly am not qualified to have an opinion about that.

What is sure is that for the time being the USA will continue to look like that:

American Patriotic Homeless Beggar

A homeless man, possibly a veteran, has built a “corridor of flags” to get people to give him money. Florida, October 2016.
Rich on cheapo patriotism and otherwise poor.

Hillary thinks that this is a stunning success. Trump thinks that this is a disgrace. I submit that the choice between these two is really very simple.

To those who are saying that there cannot be a schism in the AngloZionist elites, I will reply that the example of the conspiracy to prevent Dominique Strauss-Kahn from becoming the next French President shows that, just like hyenas, AngloZionist leaders do sometimes turn on each other. That happens in all regimes, regardless of their political ideology (think SS against SA in Nazi Germany or Trotskists against Stalinists in Boshevik USSR).

Of brooms and body parts

Leon Trotsky used to say the Soviet Russia needed to be cleansed from anarchists and noblemen with an “iron broom”. He even wrote an article in the Pravda entitled “We need an iron broom”. Another genocidal manic, Felix Derzhinskii, founder of the notorious ChK secret police, used to say that a secret police officer must have a “burning heart, a cool head and clean hands”. One would seek weakness, or even compassion, in vain from folks like these. These are ideology-driven “true believers”, sociopaths with no sense of empathy, profoundly evil people with a genocidal hatred of anybody standing in their way.

Hillary Clinton and her gang of Neocons are the spiritual (and sometimes even physical) successors of the Soviet Bolsheviks and they, just like their Bolshevik forefathers, will not hesitate for a second to crush their enemies. Donald Trump – assuming he is for real and actually means what he says – has to understand that and do what Putin did: strike first and strike hard. Stalin, by the way, also did exactly that, and for a while the Trotskyists were crushed, but in the years following Stalin’s death they gradually bounced back only to seize power again in 1991 (not Trotskyists in a literal sense of the word, but russophobic Jews who had nothing but contempt for the Russian people). I think that the jury is still out on whether Putin will succeed in finally removing the 5th columnist from power. What is sure is that Russia is at least semi-free from the control of these people and that the US is their last bastion right now. Their maniacal hatred of Trump can in part be explained by the sense of danger these folks feel, being threatened for the first time in what they see as their homeland (I don’t mean that in a patriotic sense – but rather like a parasite care for “his” host). And maybe they have some good reason to fear. I sure hope that they do.

I am rather encouraged by the way Trump handled the latest attempt to make him cower in fear. Yesterday Trump dared to declare that since the election might be rigged or stolen he does not pledge to recognize their outcome. And even though every semi-literate person knows that elections in the USA have been rigged and stolen in the past, including Presidential ones, by saying that Trump committed a major case of crimethink. The Ziomedia pounced on him with self-righteous outrage and put immense pressure on him to retract his statement (which, by the way, contradicted Pence’s stance). Instead of rolling over and recanting his “crime”, Trump replied with this:

{Saker posts a video here and the embed didn't work for some reason. The video is a clip of Trump saying that he would accept the results of the election when he wins. Here's the link: _}

Beautiful no? Let’s hope he continues to show the same courage.

Trump is doing now what Jean-Marie Le Pen did in France: he is showing the Neocons that be that he dares to openly defy them, that he refuses to play by their rules, that their outrage has no effect on his and that they don’t get to censor or, even less so, silence him. That is also what he did when, yet again, he refused to accuse the Russians of cyber-attacks and, instead, repeated that it would be a good thing for Russia and the USA to be friends. Again, I am not sure that how long he will be able to hold that line, but for the time being there is no denying that he is openly defying the AngloZionist deep state and Empire.


The United States are about to enter what might possibly be the deepest and most dangerous crisis of their history. If Trump is elected, he will have to immediately launch a well-planned attack against his opponents without giving them any pretext to accuse him of politically motivated repressions. In Russia, Putin could count on the support of the military and the security services. I don’t know whom Trump can count on, but I am fairly confident that there are still true patriots in the US armed forces. If Trump gets the right person to head the FBI, he might also use that agency to clean house and deliver a steady streams of indictments for corruption, conspiracy to [fill the blank], abuse of authority, obstruction of justice and dereliction of duty, etc. Since such crimes are widespread in the current circles of power, they are also easy to prove and cracking down on corruption would get Trump a standing ovation from the American people. Next, just as Putin in Russia, Trump will have to deal with the media. How exactly, I don’t know. But he will have to face this beast and defeat it. At every step in this process he will have to get the proactive support of the people, just like Putin does. Can he do it?

I don’t know. Honestly, I doubt it. First, I still don’t trust him. But, more relevantly, I would argue that to overthrow the deep state and restore true people power is even harder in the USA than it was in Russia. I have always believed that the AngloZionist Empire will have to be brought down from the outside, most probably by a combination of military and economic defeats. I still believe that. However, I might be wrong – in fact, I hope that I am – and maybe Trump will be the guy to bring down the Empire in order to save the United States. If there is such a possibility, however slim, I think that we have to believe in it and act on it as all the alternatives are far worse.

The Saker

*Edited to fix linked video


The Living Force
Altair said:
Soros-fronted orgs among groups calling for anti-Trump protests

Some of the anti-Trump protests in the US have been organized by groups that were sponsored by Clinton sympathizer and billionaire George Soros.

Among Wikileaks’ Podesta emails was a strategy document involving the Soros-supported and grassroots organizing and funding.

Mainstream media outlets like CNN and MSNBC have given the protests around-the-clock media coverage, drowning out all other news stories, including a successful transition meeting between the President Elect and President Barack Obama.

‘COLOR REV’ AGIT PROP: George Soros MoveOn Agitators March on America – as Billionaire Instigator Sued

Soros Agit-Prop Empire Last year during the ongoing European migrant crisis, startling claims were levied by Hungarian PM Victor Orban, concerning the role played by Soros.

PM Orban contended that the founder and chair of Open Society Foundations (Open Society Institute), was entrenched in a “circle of activists,” that “inadvertently become part of this international human-smuggling network.”

The stunning declaration by Orban recalled the misguided machinations of ‘The Occupy Movement’(aka OWS) in 2011, as well as the Soros funded protests in Ferguson, Missouri in 2014, along with other Black Lives Matter protests this past year – all of which were uniquely designed to push naive participants (along with paid provocateurs) into violent action and social unrest.

Back in January, MoveOn publicly endorsed the Bernie Sanders campaign in what appeared to be a call to action for BLM associated groups seen backing Sanders. It’s worth mentioning, that MoveOn also supported the Obama campaign in 2008 and according to the website, Sanders was the only other candidate to reach the “threshold for an endorsement.”

As we said back in March, professional political agitator flash mobs, had been mobilized at future Trump campaign events, making it very difficult to run a normal campaign – as ‘activists’ attempted to take away Trump’s ‘strength in numbers’ at his rallies. This was confirmed at events in both Ohio, and at a Trump primary campaign event the University of Illinois Chicago earlier this year, where hundreds of BLM activists and Sanders supporters, triggered voilent clashes inside the venue and even stormed the stage, shortly after Trump started speaking, then again at Reno he was birddogged just prior to his election forcing secret service to escort Trump away.

In a Politico article in early 2016 entitled “Major donors consider funding Black Lives Matter,” we gained deeper insight into the political funding for BLM and the Soros linked Democratic Alliance:

“Major donors are usually not as radical or confrontational as activists most in touch with the pain of oppression,” said Steve Phillips, a Democracy Alliance member and significant contributor to Democratic candidates and causes. He donated to a St. Louis nonprofit group called the Organization for Black Struggle that helped organize 2014 Black Lives Matter-related protests in Ferguson, Missouri, over the police killing of a black teenager named Michael Brown. And Phillips and his wife, Democracy Alliance board member Susan Sandler, are in discussions about funding other groups involved in the movement.”

It worth noting how Soros, a long time contributor to Hillary Clinton, donated $2 million in PAC money in 2015 and January of 2016, Soros reportedly gave $8 million to “boost” Clinton’s campaign. Soros also recently funded $15 million to Latino groups looking to stop Trump’s rise towards a potential GOP nomination and beyond.

Look for these political engineers to pit choreographed conservative and liberal groups against each other across the country – as all of these hostile uprisings are designer engineered by party linked alliances.

During the last month, it was revealed how investigative non-profit Project Veritas found evidence that the DNC paid participants to incite violence at Trump rallies during the course of the 2016 election.

If those reports are accurate – reports which have gone unchallenged so far – this would be in violation of both election bylaws and also US criminal law.

USA Color Revolutions - Both the purpose of these types of agitation activities seems to be to first cause a public disruption, and also to foment are a form of modern class warfare. These political protests are designed in such a way as to disguise its true intentions. Ultimately, a radical globalist and cultural marxist “progressive” agenda is at play – eroding the legitimacy of a democratically elected government through a series of artificial ‘color’ upheavals, and where possible – weakening a country’s national sovereignty through forced dependency on multilateral globalist institutions like the UN or IMF, while presenting shock and awe imagery in order to manipulate the public’s political perspective.

This is how the US and its CIA conduct their destablization ‘color revolution’ campaigns overseas, and now astute observers will be able to see these exact same methods being deployed here inside the US.

Overseas, Washington tends to use the same cast of NGO fronts to build-up pro-US political opposition groups, as well as plan and generate civil unrest. They include the Albert Einstein Institute (AEI), National Endowment for Democracy (NED), International Republican Institute (IRI), National Democratic Institute (NDI), Freedom House and later the International Center for Non-Violent Conflict (ICNC), and the US Agency for International Development (USAID), the financial and contractor arm of the Department of State.

Inside the US, deep state actors in Washington generally work through Democratic Party affiliated organizations like, as well as through labor union organizations like AFL-CIO, and UNITE HERE. These, along with many other similar organizations have been involved in organizing this week’s protests.

It still remains to be seen if Trump’s stated dynamic political vision for America can unite an embattled nation by restoring international relations throughout the world, in addition to helping economic woes at home, or will it simply push the country further into authoritarianism. This remains to be seen.

Certainly, judging by President Obama and Hillary Clinton’s total silence over their own party’s role in fomenting this week’s unrest – one can only conclude that both party leaders approve of the protests and riots. The political motivation is undeniable – to help delegitimize a new Trump presidency.

Legal Action Against Soros Groups - In a recent report featured at RT news we learn that George Soros and BLM activists will be sued for the deaths of slain police officers in Dallas and Baton Rouge:

“The father of the Dallas police officer who was killed by a lone gunman during a Black Lives Matter protest is suing the organization’s activists and George Soros for $550 million. In a separate suit a Baton Rouge police officer is suing for injuries sustained during a BLM protest.

The father of Patrick Zamarripa filed a lawsuit against Black Lives Matter and other groups for allegedly “inciting a war on police” that led to the death of his son.

The lawsuit filed in US District Court in Dallas on Monday seeks $550 million in damages.

“While Defendant Black Lives Matter claims to combat anti-black racism,” the lawsuit said, according to the Fort Worth Star Telegram, “the movement has in fact incited and committed further violence, severe bodily injury and death against police officers of all races and ethnicities, Jews, and Caucasians. Defendant Black Lives Matter is in fact a violent and revolutionary criminal gang.”


Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Joe said:
Nima said:
According to his show he prefers a dictatorship:

That's basically a "reality TV" show, which usually bear little resemblance to reality.

Good point.

In general I don't think a benevolent dictatorship is that bad of an option for a government.

Seppo Ilmarinen

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
axj said:
The consensus here was that Trump is an overt fascist and many refused to even see the possibility that this may not be the case.

I don't think it was any consensus: I said he's "overt fascist" in one post (i should have used less colorized word like 'crass' instead), where my point was that Trump is still better option than Hillary. Then we ended up arguing and nitpicking around this one word.

[quote author= axj]When I questioned that, I was told that I'm wrong because the group consensus is different, that I have a lot to learn about ponerology, etc.[/quote]

I think this is how you felt but no one said you're wrong because you think differently, that wouldn't be rational and acceptable argument at all.

I've noticed how useful it is to sometimes re-read old posts with more distance, for example i can see now that you were right that i was using way too certain vocabulary in our conversation, like "there's no doubt" etc. :)

For me it was eye opening to see Project Veritas videos where groups linked to Hillary's team was agitating and provoking violence at Trump rallies. And now after the election the violence is coming from liberal protesters. I guess i was having too black and white view on Trump. It's important to see what he actually does as a president, not what he has said during his campaign; I'll give him benefit of the doubt.


FOTCM Member
axj said:
Just because you were not aware of or ignored his anti-establishment stance doesn't mean it wasn't there before the second debate. Even in the Republican primaries he openly talked about the corruption in politics, how Hillary owed him a favor because of a donation, that the Iraq war was a mistake, that he wants to get along with Russia, etc.

The consensus here was that Trump is an overt fascist and many refused to even see the possibility that this may not be the case. When I questioned that, I was told that I'm wrong because the group consensus is different, that I have a lot to learn about ponerology, etc.

I think this is a dynamic that the group should be aware of and that should not be encouraged, since it limits our ability to see objective truth. Whatever the group consensus is, treat it as a working hypothesis, which it is.

Please link to posts.



The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Trump has apparently chosen his chief of staff; Reince Priebus. From the NYT :

President-elect Donald J. Trump on Sunday chose Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee and a loyal campaign adviser, to be his White House chief of staff, turning to a Washington insider whose friendship with the House speaker, Paul D. Ryan, could help secure early legislative victories.

In selecting Mr. Priebus, the president-elect passed over Stephen K. Bannon, the right-wing media mogul who oversaw his presidential campaign. If Mr. Trump had appointed Mr. Bannon, a fierce critic of the Republican establishment, it would have signaled a continued disdain for a party that Mr. Trump fought throughout his campaign.

Mr. Trump’s choice is certain to anger some of his most conservative supporters, many of whom expect him to battle the Washington establishment over issues like taxes, immigration, trade, health care and the environment. They view Mr. Priebus as a deal maker who will be too eager to push the new president toward compromise.

In a statement Sunday afternoon, the transition team said Mr. Bannon would serve as the chief strategist and senior counselor in the White House. It emphasized that the two men would work “as equal partners to transform the federal government.”

Mr. Bannon — the longtime chairman of Breitbart News, a site known for its nationalist, racially charged, conspiracy-laden coverage — is likely to serve as a conduit to the populist right and conservative media outlets.

The transition team appeared eager to ease concerns among Mr. Trump’s most fervent supporters over the selection of Mr. Priebus. To that end, the statement mentioned Mr. Bannon first.

“We had a very successful partnership on the campaign, one that led to victory,” Mr. Bannon said in the statement. “We will have that same partnership in working to help President-elect Trump achieve his agenda.”

Mr. Priebus said he looked forward to working with Mr. Bannon and Mr. Trump “to create an economy that works for everyone, secure our borders, repeal and replace Obamacare and destroy radical Islamic terrorism.”

The selection of Mr. Priebus to run the White House staff is partly a reflection of concern among Mr. Trump’s children, especially Ivanka Trump, as well as her husband, Jared Kushner, that the job should not be held by someone too controversial, according to several people familiar with the internal decision making.

But while Mr. Trump apparently feels comfortable with Mr. Priebus, the people with knowledge of the decision said that Mr. Bannon was better able to talk forcefully to the president-elect during difficult moments.

Mr. Priebus is expected to have multiple deputies, including Katie Walsh, the chief of staff of the Republican National Committee, who is close to Mr. Priebus and helped ensure a tight working relationship between the party’s operational infrastructure and Mr. Trump’s campaign.

From his newly created Wiki entry:

He has previously served as RNC general counsel, and is the former chairman of the Republican Party of Wisconsin, where he is credited with helping to bring nationally known figures such as Paul Ryan, Speaker of the House, and Scott Walker, Governor of Wisconsin, into power on the state level and prominence on the national stage. On November 13, 2016, president-elect Donald Trump named him White House Chief of Staff.


Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
I use an email system - Protonmail - which uses encrypted email. On their recent blog, they announced that since Trump was elected, they have seen a huge upsurge in people signing up to use their system.

They mention this:

"Since Trump’s victory, the number of new users coming to ProtonMail has doubled compared to the previous week. Many of our new users have voiced a few common concerns both on Twitter and also in emails to us. Given Trump’s campaign rhetoric against journalists, political enemies, immigrants, and Muslims, there is concern that Trump could use the new tools at his disposal to target certain groups. As the NSA currently operates completely out of the public eye with very little legal oversight, all of this could be done in secret.

Full article here:

The crux of the article is that some many people are worried that Trump will control the NSA and might start to use it against them. I find that statement - which Protonmail go to some pains to point out is quite silly as the NSA has been around spying on us for years, and hence the need for services like ProtonMail - just godsmackingly stupid. These people think that the NSA has been in place all these years and is just being used for good? Just to spy on the US's enemies? Not to spy on American citizens? Really!!!

Just goes to show who extraordinarily deluded people have become, how under the spell of the psychopaths people are and how they have suspended their ability to think objectively and carefully.. The NSA would have been OK under Bush, Obama and Killary, but that Trump would use it for evil .....


FOTCM Member
Pashalis said:
Trumps first meeting with Obama:

First thought when I saw this, was: Body language says more then words. Same with his looks when confronted with Killary, Bush etc. during the debates. His expresssion looks like "what the hell is this infront of me? What a slime bag"


FOTCM Member
As we said in today's show, don't a.) get your hopes up or b.) get disheartened by Trump's picks for govt.

Here's a reason to stay positive: any Republicans he picks, no matter their track record, will understand that they now work for him.

By winning the Republican primaries, Trump basically bought out the Republican Party in an aggressive takeover. So all Republicans are now his employees! He owns them!


The Living Force

I like these three:

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