Archaea said:
I think Doom's perceptions are valid, even if they're not objective. Sometimes I perceive that the mods and admins, as well as the forum in general, can react emotionally, blocking the higher cognitive faculties. I think an example of this is in this thread:
Has anybody from this forum become man number 4 (or higher)? where Highfive and Bluebell get banned. I also think, however, that networking would solve these problems for me and maybe for others as well, so I need to know what an appropriate way to discuss this subject is.
I think that something that would help with that is to cite what you see as evidence of your claims. For example, in the thread you linked to, what made you think that banning these two people was equivalent to "reacting emotionally and blocking the higher faculties". I went back and read it, and don't see exactly how you came to that conclusion.
No way to answer this question objectively without data. He is not asking - so speculating on this theme is rather useless imo.
OK, so could self-importance or trauma cause a person in general to have these concerns?
I think you already know that the answer to that question is Yes. But, if you familiarize yourself with the studies on psychopathy, you can also see that pathological behavior can LOOK the same as well, and be motivated by different reasons. Then, there is a big difference: Is a person asking? If not, there is nothing you can do. A lot of people go through indescribable trauma, but don't go attacking others, and actually WANT to get to the bottom of things. Sure, you could try and help someone who seems stubborn until the comets come. But what if you are forcing them to see something they don't want to see? That would be bad, don't you think? So, until and if people like that are willing to be at least open to some things, the best thing is not to associate with them and feed those parts.
I also think that part of the problem is that you tend to equate defending our path with attacking back. Two very different things. Do you let people step over you in life, just because they may be traumatized?
I thought there was some mention of attack with timejack, but I went back over his posts and couldn't find any mention of it. I may have been projecting.
Yeah, maybe. And maybe if you keep trying to analyze how you reach these types of conclusions, you will see more clearly?
He was not asking - he came here to teach others. There are guidelines which every user here is supposed to read before joining in. If someone does not agree with the basic premises that this forum is based on then there is no common ground for discussion.
Fair enough, do you think he should have done nothing, or should he have vented himself more constructively, within the premises that this forum is based on?
Archaea, I think that what you are missing here is an important difference: It's not so black and white. But you are projecting. He wasn't venting, explaining a misunderstanding, etc. He was preaching (NOT asking). Not doing anything if you are struggling is not so useful. But he didn't seem to be struggling. He was going to "show us", and even laughed about "who will get there first" and all that. How can we have an adult conversation with someone like that?
If you are referring to 4th Way Work, then your idea is different from what it stands for. But that is a different topic for discussion. And a fruitful discussion can take place only when there is some familiarity of the basic reading material suggested.
I have some books, but haven't got around to reading them yet.
THIS maybe be the reason why you are struggling with this. I suggest that you read "In Search of the Miraculous" to understand why being "nice" with everyone doesn't always help.
I've been reading some of the Seth books and he says that "life is expression." I think Doom did the right thing outing his feelings, but I think he did it in a selfish manner. I think that holding on to feelings and not expressing them leads to blockages, but it's far better to express them constructively. For example, if someone beats their dog because they had a bad day at work, that's really selfish, even though it made them feel better, but if they channel their anger into art, or talk to someone about it, or whatever, then that's less selfish.
The problem I see with this is that you are ASSUMING that Doom was hurt, frustrated, etc. Have you considered the possibility that he may simply want to be right, to have followers, etc.? Because we've seen and interacted with hundreds of people who were like that, we tend to see some patterns. It doesn't mean that the door is closed for ever, if they ever get to come here and be a bit more honest.
So if someone in general, feels there's something wrong with the forum, what's a constructive way to out those feelings? And how could they be validated?
Also, this really has nothing to do with anything, but am I asking loaded questions?
Yes you are, but that's ok if it helps you in the end. You have made it clear in this and other threads that you don't like "our approach", and have made not-so-tactful comments regarding Laura and mods in other threads. To me that seems to indicate that you wish to blame someone else for something that is causing tension or hurt within you, but that you can't quite acknowledge yet. It would be more productive, I think, if you could try to observe whatever it is that is bothering you, and say it. NOT attacking or making offensive comments. Just saying, for example: "After this post, I felt hurt and humiliated". And why. Maybe it reminds you of something in the past. Maybe you are angry about something else. Maybe it doesn't fit with the idea you have about being in peace with yourself. Well, if it is the latter, perhaps this forum is not for you, and that is totally ok. If you are open to the possibility that your perception may be skewed, and want to find out why, then maybe sticking around helps. But you cannot "demand" indirectly, with these loaded questions, that people treat you with kids gloves. Because for that, there are many other places. Are YOU asking, or do you feel sympathy for Doom and other "baked noodles" because you wish you could show us what is "right"? In other words, maybe stopping beating around the bushes with questions, and really saying what you feel would contribute to solving this tension you feel.
So, really, what IS the problem, Archaea? Without using others as a reason to "complain" or ask questions?
Another thing to consider, IMO, is that some people have a very sensitive personality, and for them, direct talk and actions can feel very aggressive. Unfortunately, the work we do here doesn't always allow for being "nice" in that sense. In certain cases it does, like when a person is struggling and is already too hard on him/herself, for example. But in other cases, one needs a bit of a shock. It all depends on the situation. If you are a very sensitive person, maybe this type of interaction is too much for you? I don't know.
Anyway, I think that reading "In Search of the Miraculous" will provide you with some interesting insight about humans, the Work, and the things that seem to be bothering you. Hopefully after reading it, you will understand our perspective a little better.
