Dr Karla Turner lecture

[François]

Anart,

I read you carefully again:

Actually, let me explain this simply so that you can understand. It is not your decision whether any link on this forum is active or not. It is not your place to decide what moderators should or should not do. This is not your forum. The fact that this link may have been active at one time on this forum has no bearing on the fact that I deactivated this link today. You are a guest on this forum and it would be appreciated if you could conduct yourself according to the forum guidelines. Please re-read the forum guidelines before posting again. If your current rude behavior persists, your posting privileges will be removed.

I understand perfectly I am just an invitee in the forum, who have to read the forum guidelines before posting, so that I am aware that for example any link set within the message can be deactivated or not by administrator decision whatever the reason. Having not read this carefully before, the final result is I am judged pathological (as said in one of your previous message), and with a rude behavior.

So this is why, I will post any new message for sharing data and idea, without paying attention to what I wish to share in future. This was not my desire to get all these moderator comments criticizing me and pointing out that I was off or it was off, each moderator underlining in other words what was said by any previous moderator, so that I do not miss the point.

Nobody tolds me before that I have a pathological attitude and a rude behavior. Good lesson to me.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Nobody tolds me before that I have a pathological attitude and a rude behavior. Good lesson to me.

I just want to stress that nearly everyone shows signs of pathological thinking to one degree or another. Again, this forum uses Gurdjieff as a benchmark on conduct and theory, and according to him, humanity is generally abnormal, i.e. they show some degree of pathology in their thought processes, emotions and behaviors. As most people have pathological thinking (we also use the words "ponerized" and "subconscious selection and substitution, from Dr. Lobaczewski), it is unlikely you will find people in everyday life pointing this out to you. Sometimes it's because they can't 'see' it (it seems normal to them), or they do not want to embarrass you/themselves (often leading to "Well, why didn't you tell me I was being such a jerk?? I didn't know!").

So yes, it is a good lesson, because otherwise we fall prey to the "pauper's fallacy", i.e. we think we are "rich" when in fact we are "poor", and no one telling us this is the case makes any difference - it's only when we can realize that we ARE poor, that we can start doing something about it.

 

[Bar Kochba]

The test is: can you gaze in the mirror and ruthlessly evaluate your machine? That is one of the hardest tests that you will ever take. Failure is more common than success, but luckily we can re-take as necessary. :)

 

[A.K.]

Thank you for the Dr. Karla Turner link.

 

[dant]

Thank you for the Dr. Karla Turner link.

Just curious, what link are you using?

 

[LisaR]

I am new here and, therefore may not have a right to share my feelings about the issue regarding Francois' link. That being said, something jumps out at me here. All responses to her reaction to her link being removed are in their own way valid from a logical perspective. However, we are sensitive to the invisible writing of subtext innuendo. We are constantly sub-consciously trying to get a fix on our position in the social cosmos.

"am I warm, near the sun, closer to the centre--- accepted and welcomed, or have I done or said something so grosse I've become a mere dot orbiting Pluto.

I detected from the enthusiasm behind Francois' initial post and link passion and admiration for the people it was meant to reach. Although it wasn't intended as a slap in the face, the lack of notification felt like it for her.

The sub- conscious which rules social interactions IS a black or white feeler. It doesn't really "think". It feels it has been placed squarely and safely inside or outside.

It is probably best when someone feels personally rejected to reassure them that they truly rock. Many members on this forum are probably over sensitive to criticism-- as part of an over all hyper sensitive nature.

Just saying'. Hope I haven't ruffled any feathers. If I have, just consider yourself preemptively gifted with a "and you truly rock", too! ;D

 

[anart]

I am new here and, therefore may not have a right to share my feelings about the issue regarding Francois' link. That being said, something jumps out at me here. All responses to her reaction to her link being removed are in their own way valid from a logical perspective. However, we are sensitive to the invisible writing of subtext innuendo. We are constantly sub-consciously trying to get a fix on our position in the social cosmos.

"am I warm, near the sun, closer to the centre--- accepted and welcomed, or have I done or said something so grosse I've become a mere dot orbiting Pluto.

I detected from the enthusiasm behind Francois' initial post and link passion and admiration for the people it was meant to reach. Although it wasn't intended as a slap in the face, the lack of notification felt like it for her.

The sub- conscious which rules social interactions IS a black or white feeler. It doesn't really "think". It feels it has been placed squarely and safely inside or outside.

It is probably best when someone feels personally rejected to reassure them that they truly rock. Many members on this forum are probably over sensitive to criticism-- as part of an over all hyper sensitive nature.

Just saying'. Hope I haven't ruffled any feathers. If I have, just consider yourself preemptively gifted with a "and you truly rock", too! ;D

It's actually much more important and much more helpful to simply tell the truth as applicable to any situation. Comforting people with false platitudes usually doesn't serve them very well.

 

[LisaR]

It is very important to tell the truth. It's how it's told that captures the nuance of any given social interaction. That's the point I was trying to make--and only because I'm so acutely sensitive myself--and female. I honestly think women experience communication differently. On the other hand, I totally get what you are saying...that we have to be in emotional reality and shouldn't expect to be catered to all of the time. I just kind of felt for her because she was so jazzed about her link.

Oh--and you truly rock! ;)

 

[Approaching Infinity]

It is very important to tell the truth. It's how it's told that captures the nuance of any given social interaction. That's the point I was trying to make--and only because I'm so acutely sensitive myself--and female. I honestly think women experience communication differently.

LisaR, are you familiar with Gurdjieff? Read ISOTM? In addition to Laura's Wave Series, it's pretty much a must-read if you want to understand our approach here on the forum.

 

[anart]

It is very important to tell the truth. It's how it's told that captures the nuance of any given social interaction. That's the point I was trying to make--and only because I'm so acutely sensitive myself--and female. I honestly think women experience communication differently. On the other hand, I totally get what you are saying...that we have to be in emotional reality and shouldn't expect to be catered to all of the time. I just kind of felt for her because she was so jazzed about her link.

I'm female as well and I think it would be really helpful if you would re-read the forum guidelines to make sure that this forum is a good fit for you.

Oh--and you truly rock! ;)

I'm not really interested in this sort of thing, so feel free to refrain in the future.

 

[LisaR]

It is very important to tell the truth. It's how it's told that captures the nuance of any given social interaction. That's the point I was trying to make--and only because I'm so acutely sensitive myself--and female. I honestly think women experience communication differently. On the other hand, I totally get what you are saying...that we have to be in emotional reality and shouldn't expect to be catered to all of the time. I just kind of felt for her because she was so jazzed about her link.

I'm female as well and I think it would be really helpful if you would re-read the forum guidelines to make sure that this forum is a good fit for you.

Oh--and you truly rock! ;)

I'm not really interested in this sort of thing, so feel free to refrain in the future.

Obviously, this forum is NOT a good fit for me. Your loss. Like Francoise, I was excited to see the breadth and depth of discussion on this forum but have obviously been found wanting. And you, personally Anart, have a LOT to learn about how to approach people. So go ahead....delete away!

 

[LisaR]

It is very important to tell the truth. It's how it's told that captures the nuance of any given social interaction. That's the point I was trying to make--and only because I'm so acutely sensitive myself--and female. I honestly think women experience communication differently.

LisaR, are you familiar with Gurdjieff? Read ISOTM? In addition to Laura's Wave Series, it's pretty much a must-read if you want to understand our approach here on the forum.

What I have observed is a brusque dismissive approach to someone who was eagerly presenting to you; people she admires, a link that was special to her. If that is how people are treated here on a regular basis I am out of here. The poster wasn't treated sensitively and when she reacted normally to that treatment, she was told she has pathologies. It has been clarified that we all have pathologies, true. However there is nothing in this poster's reaction specifically that is symptomatic.

 

[anart]

What I have observed is a brusque dismissive approach to someone who was eagerly presenting to you; people she admires, a link that was special to her. If that is how people are treated here on a regular basis I am out of here. The poster wasn't treated sensitively and when she reacted normally to that treatment, she was told she has pathologies. It has been clarified that we all have pathologies, true. However there is nothing in this poster's reaction specifically that is symptomatic. [...]
Obviously, this forum is NOT a good fit for me. Your loss. Like Francoise, I was excited to see the breadth and depth of discussion on this forum but have obviously been found wanting. And you, personally Anart, have a LOT to learn about how to approach people. So go ahead....delete away!

As Laura wrote in response to you in another thread:

... not to mention the fact that the forum guidelines clearly state what the ideas and perspectives of the owners and participants are, i.e. the C's material (The Wave, etc) and Gurdjieff, Mouravieff, Castaneda, etc. Also that it is an experimental Work forum, not just discussion and blowing off opinions and ideas without having FIRST done some WORK ON THE SELF.

In another post this evening you said that you'd had several glasses of wine which is the excuse I was giving you in my mind for why you've been so obnoxiously rude and aggressive. I'm quite embarrassed for you and wonder how you conduct yourself in real life. I'm glad that you've come to conlclusion, however, that this forum is not for you. We'll all be much better off, including you, since having to confront the level of self-importance that you have displayed is usually quite painful and not for the faint of heart. So, as they say, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[Z...]

Hey Hithere,

Your post reminded me of something. First of all, I cannot comment on why this deep sleep may be happening but I find the time of the sleep (i.e. late afternoon/evening) interesting.

I grew up in Turkey (a Muslim country) and I have always been aware of a certain time of day that older people called 'The Time of Ashraf' or the 'Ashraf Hour'. This time is not definite but it takes place around late afternoon/evening and in Islamic belief is a time when day ends and night begins. It's almost as if a door opens in the skies and the 'angels of the day' depart through the door while the 'angels of the night' arrive, like a changing of the guard. People in Turkey deliberately avoid sleep during the Time of Ashraf precisely because of that feeling of having been far away that you also mention. The belief is that your soul becomes free during sleep and (if you sleep in the late afternoon) may follow the angels of the day through that 'door in the sky' and never come back. For this reason, sleep during this time tends to be extremely deep (no dreams, just a blank) and waking up from such a sleep brings with it an inexplicable feeling of having come back from afar.

In Christian Balkan there is belief that at certain time of the night "angels dont have power" and this is usually said to be beyween 2 and 4 AM - slightly different to your Ashraf Hour, but the idea is similar. In Balkans during this time you should be extra careful if you are awake and you should never go near crossroads or garbage dumps because negative entities gather in such places.
Also in Anglo-Saxon culture there is belief in so called Witching Hour - the time of day when supernatural creatures such as witches, demons, and ghosts are thought to appear and to be at their most powerful and black magic to be most effective.

 

[Deleted member 8431]

I have started to look at her videos and boy, I am impressed by her objectivity and clarity in the matter. It seems so much to correspond with everything discussed here. Very good material!

The way she puts everything in perspective considering all cases she studied is nothing short of spectacular. No useless talking and rambling, she goes straight to the point and has connected quite a few many dots indeed. Bravo Mme Turner!

May you rest in peace. Thank you for what you have done. I have learned from you.