Dr. Rebecca Carley

[Ruth]

She may have duplicated the papers I don't know, but she says she has no way to put them on the web as she has no organization, and there are, literally, thousands of pages to scan or OCR.

This tends to suggest that her life doesn't depend on 'sharing' what she knows. Or else, someone has already 'compromised' her or is manipulating her to some degree... (note: she is not 'excused' from COINTELPROs manipulations just because she hails from a medical background, I would suggest far from it!).

How much would it 'cost' her to photocopy a bunch of stuff (if asked) and send it off to you guys? Even if a bunch of people offered to reimburse her the cost? So, that's two 'strikes' against her (admitedly she hasn't been 'tested' or perhaps even asked - yet - ? ;) who knows ... or maybe she has, I wouldn't know. As a comparison, how much did it cost Lobaczewski to send copies of his manuscripts out? What is the (real) cost for the truth? And where does it fall? And, what does it 'look' like when it falls?

Carley is mainly an anti-vaccine crusader, and believes that a wide range of apparently different maladies are actually different manifestations of auto-immune disease, especially de-myelenation (body breaking down the protective tissue around nervous system's components) -- says that toxins and biological materials in vaccines are intended to occupy our immune systems. The ever-present "fatigue" that modern people face is possibly the expenditure of energy of fight off implanted problems until some tipping-point is eventually reached and one disease or another wins out. This, I think, is the usual theory given when vaccines and tainted foods, etc., are described as "soft-kill, time-release" weapons.

That is great... It says (perhaps?) ignore all (possibly?) other causes/eitioglogies of the problem? (And they may be many). For example, toxins are not just introduced via vaccines. They have become rather troublesome environmental factos within and endemic to our environment. But.... lets just ignore that...

The 'problem' most people have (including doctors) is that they don't really know - why things 'work' in detail, for example, if you look in any MIMS (drug reference publication), often you will find that nobody knows why a drug works, but it does, so they will continue to give it.... And, it of course, it doesn't work for everyone! Hence there are precautions!

But she also gives a point of view about what she calls the "medical mafia," how their training methods have become standard for physicians, their mind-control and programming techniques designed to make docs forget their training after med school and follow a tight "program" of behavior, and the tactics they use to keep doctors in line with prescribed behavior and roles, basically as shills of big pharma and opponents of natural healing methods. It's interesting stuff, but, as I've said, it's not an area I have time to actively research. She appears to be hip to psychopathy, as is Ian Crane.

What makes medicine or pharmacology any different from any other facet of life? (inclucing business or psychology) Psychopathy within the 'culture' of 'life' or 'death' (or big pharma or medicine)? Would these things be 'sacred' to a psychopath? No. They are merely another element of that which is exploitable. There IS no difference.

I think "truly dangerous" is key, but of course, few really are, or are judged to be -- there is that element of PTB hubris and arrogance. I think another criteria, though, is "wouldn't be missed" or "wouldn't raise enough suspicion," though that one must be qualified all kinds of ways. Big political players are the exception because an air of acceptability has been cultivated around political assassinations (that is, people are trained to "accept" that they happen sometimes).

'People' have been 'trained' to accept all manner or things - most of them false. Now THAT is truly, truly SCARY. I suppose we must all honestly ask ourselves what is it that we have been 'conditioned' to believe and follow, ect. And.... wonder...

She lives a couple of hours from me. Think I should pay her a visit?

Oh yes, abolutely. What has anyone got to lose from sharing a cup of coffee or befriending someone? Nothing, one would think.

 

[PopHistorian]

Hi, Ruth, your post strikes me as very strange. Your posts seem OK to me usually -- no clear abundance of unreasonable assumptions. But this one seems to have nothing but. I struggle to find the point of it. No one here has said Carley has been researched, but your post "sounds" like you have done it and found evidence of conscious CoIntelPro activity. But you don't actually reference any research. You've admitted frustration with attacks on modern medicine as being "all evil" (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=9202), so I wonder if that feeling informed your post? You have also admitted to posting while inebriated (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=8975). Was this another occurrence? This is a serious question -- not an attack on you, but a plea for clarification.

<< someone has already 'compromised' her or is manipulating her to some degree>>

Why suggest this about anyone without knowing more? For comparison's sake, please provide an example of someone who is free of compromise and manipulation.

<< How much would it 'cost' her to photocopy a bunch of stuff (if asked) and send it off to you guys? Even if a bunch of people offered to reimburse her the cost? So, that's two 'strikes' against her (admitedly she hasn't been 'tested' or perhaps even asked - yet - ? >>

Huh? I haven't asked you if you ate a banana today. You failed to anticipate that I might ask this, and thus did not answer. Therefore, it's one strike against you. A syllogism could hardly be more faulty. On top of that, how do you know that the material was acquired non-surreptitiously, and poses no personal risk if sent off to a total stranger?

<< It says (perhaps?) ignore all (possibly?) other causes/eitioglogies of the problem? >>

I can't think of an example in which someone has said to me, "Listen to my opinion and ignore all evidence to the contrary." I don't think this is an approach people commonly take to making a case. Yet you seem sure that this is what is happening somewhere. Can you reveal who it was that said all other possible causes of these diseases have been ignored? How did you reach the conclusion that all other possibilities were ignored, and by whom, to reach this particular opinion?

<< What makes medicine or pharmacology any different from any other facet of life? >>

Please point out who said that medicine or pharmacology was different from any other facet of life, and how they said it was different. Also, was there a suggestion here that people assume it is somehow different? Also, I don't see where someone suggested there was sacredness about medicine to psychopaths. It seems that you're suggesting that no one should point out psychopathy, anywhere, ever, because it is so obvious, everyone should know it already.

I'll stop here. I hope I conveyed adequately how I became confused by your post, and that you'll take a moment to clarify. Thanks in advance.

 

[anart]

I agree with Adpop on this. Also, as far as this input:

Oh yes, abolutely. What has anyone got to lose from sharing a cup of coffee or befriending someone? Nothing, one would think.

It's misguided at best. Depending on who is 'befriended' there is a lot to be lost. Vigilance, remember? Not sure what's up with these posts, Ruth, but it would be appreciated if it could stop - and if it is due to drinking while posting, perhaps you could refrain from doing both at the same time?

 

[Ruth]

Hi, Ruth, your post strikes me as very strange. Your posts seem OK to me usually -- no clear abundance of unreasonable assumptions. But this one seems to have nothing but. I struggle to find the point of it. No one here has said Carley has been researched, but your post "sounds" like you have done it and found evidence of conscious CoIntelPro activity. But you don't actually reference any research.

Yes, sorry about that. I tend to assume that ALL facets of life have cointelpro activity with medicine and health being no exception and that perhaps people think that because medicine and health care are MEANT to be for human benefit and advancement, that it somehow is excluded for cointelpro attention. I don't see why it should be. That is a very emotive response, I know.

You've admitted frustration with attacks on modern medicine as being "all evil" (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=9202), so I wonder if that feeling informed your post? You have also admitted to posting while inebriated (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=8975). Was this another occurrence? This is a serious question -- not an attack on you, but a plea for clarification.

Yes, I tend to get overexcited and ramble when I've had a few drinks and I appologise for doing that. The frustration that people can be so niaive and easily manipulated has been building for a while. Especially as I work in a health care setting and get to see first hand its limitations as well as the publics over optimistic view of what it can do. Many times I've felt that people are actively going 'looking' for evidence of what they want to believe, rather than simply seeing what is. This (natually) presents cointelpro with a very good opportunity to step in and stage manage things using peoples fear and ignorance as well as culturally held beliefs as a tool.

<< someone has already 'compromised' her or is manipulating her to some degree>>

Why suggest this about anyone without knowing more? For comparison's sake, please provide an example of someone who is free of compromise and manipulation.

The degree to which this happens is the important thing. Also the amount of acceptance and awareness of this, by the person who is being manipulated. You won't find a person who is free from manipulation - or who doesn't do it themselves to varying extents.

On top of that, how do you know that the material was acquired non-surreptitiously, and poses no personal risk if sent off to a total stranger?

If a person held a secret that was 'dangerous' to the establishment, would that person be more 'protected' if he or she had the only proof in existance and was somehow prevented from sharing it - by any means possible? This can be a hypothetical question if you like; I'm just asking 'what's most likely?'

<< It says (perhaps?) ignore all (possibly?) other causes/eitioglogies of the problem? >>

I can't think of an example in which someone has said to me, "Listen to my opinion and ignore all evidence to the contrary." I don't think this is an approach people commonly take to making a case. Yet you seem sure that this is what is happening somewhere. Can you reveal who it was that said all other possible causes of these diseases have been ignored? How did you reach the conclusion that all other possibilities were ignored, and by whom, to reach this particular opinion?

Well certainly, most cointelpro 'agents' want to vector public opinion in some way or another. Wishful thinking is a very great weakness of people, that is ripe for exploitation. All people need is encouragement which is why I get annoyed. Um, I'm pretty sure this is happening everywhere, not just somewhere. Its simply less likely in the wider scientific community because they are subject to peer review and have to back up their research.

Please point out who said that medicine or pharmacology was different from any other facet of life, and how they said it was different. Also, was there a suggestion here that people assume it is somehow different? Also, I don't see where someone suggested there was sacredness about medicine to psychopaths. It seems that you're suggesting that no one should point out psychopathy, anywhere, ever, because it is so obvious, everyone should know it already.

I think there are some people who desperately want something to be true and then try to find 'proof' on a certain thing without (as Anart puts it) due dilligence. People like this can be very easily convinced of half truths or things which are biased. Its not what people SAY or WRITE or PRINT that's the problem, its what they do! How they behave. And its what they imply as well. This is quite a 'big picture' problem.... and people can imply a lot and behave in a very revealing manner. Not just what they do, its what they don't do.

 

[mamadrama]

She is apparently another "rogue doctor," though one who seems especially opposed to anything and everything about the entire AMA medical establishment. I mean, really, totally, emotionally, opposed.

Although, I haven't listened to any of her podcasts yet, her website is so emotional it borders on the hysterical. And given what she has been through, (did you read about what happened to her child and the ensuing court fiasco? Unbelievable!) I don't blame her. To me anyway, it does tend to distract from the credibilty of the information, fwiw.

Also, as far as this input:

Oh yes, abolutely. What has anyone got to lose from sharing a cup of coffee or befriending someone? Nothing, one would think.

It's misguided at best. Depending on who is 'befriended' there is a lot to be lost. Vigilance, remember?

Yes, of course and thank you. (I obviously have a low TCI score on harm avoidance :) ) Just to clarify, I wasn't envisioning any sort of clandestine encounter or anything, just talking with her face to face (perhaps in her office) about her methods, motivations, and sources. A fact finding trip in person so to speak.

 

[Beau]

Yes, sorry about that. I tend to assume that ALL facets of life have cointelpro activity with medicine and health being no exception and that perhaps people think that because medicine and health care are MEANT to be for human benefit and advancement, that it somehow is excluded for cointelpro attention. I don't see why it should be. That is a very emotive response, I know.

Not just emotive Ruth. You are substituting any possible data/facts for a pessimistic and skeptical view. It is understandable, but that kind of logic creates a situation where you are automatically reacting to something without first getting the data. AdPop mentioned you don't reference any research, and in your reply to him instead of providing data you just give more rhetorical questions and cryptic indirect references.

Such as:

You won't find a person who is free from manipulation

Wishful thinking is a very great weakness of people, that is ripe for exploitation.

People like this can be very easily convinced of half truths or things which are biased

Now, all of the above is certainly true. But in the context of the specific discussion, it adds very little and is actually noise. By your logic, because of the above truths you do not need evidence, research, facts which underpin what you are stating. One should always strive to have facts and truth as their base, but it seems that you have substituted them for a somewhat self-calming, meditative rhetoric. I say self-calming because it seems by using this logic you are not "thinking with a hammer." You are instead using pre-set, selected data such as the above as a starting point in possibly any discussion. This is a dangerous road to take. Eventually you will become too paranoid and hysterical for anyone to listen to you.

 

[Ruth]

Not just emotive Ruth. You are substituting any possible data/facts for a pessimistic and skeptical view. It is understandable, but that kind of logic creates a situation where you are automatically reacting to something without first getting the data. AdPop mentioned you don't reference any research, and in your reply to him instead of providing data you just give more rhetorical questions and cryptic indirect references.

You're quite right, what we need is facts to back up some of the claims Dr Carley is making. I don't think I am best positioned to approach Dr Carley for her reasearch (or proof) that she says she has. I certainly can't 'check her out' personally because I live nowhere near her. I would be very interested to know the information she has but I am not in a position to get it. So, the 64 dollar question is, who is?

And as an aside, not all things need facts or research data to 'prove' that they exist. Some things are simply understood to exist and operate within our world. Like some of the things below prehaps?

Such as:

You won't find a person who is free from manipulation

Wishful thinking is a very great weakness of people, that is ripe for exploitation.

People like this can be very easily convinced of half truths or things which are biased

Now, all of the above is certainly true. But in the context of the specific discussion, it adds very little and is actually noise. By your logic, because of the above truths you do not need evidence, research, facts which underpin what you are stating.

And here's another one to add to your collection :) You don't see any randomized controlled trials for the neccecity for parachutes in skydiving do you? Perhaps proof isn't needed or the reality of the situation is already quite apparent, to those who are aware?

 

[circegoddess022]

Hi, I found this forum by searching for the real dirt on Laibow and Stubblebine. Thanks for the links in posts. I will certainly follow up on them. Does anyone have any idea where a certain notion linked to Laibow and Stubblebine about the Pope being the devil as he met with The Dalia Lama? I know it sounds weird but this is a rumor I've heard floating around. While I'm not religious, I am spiritual and don't consider either Pope Benedict II or Tensin Gyatso, The 14th Dalai Lama as "evil, devils incarnate".

As a CAM practitioner (DC, NMD, MSTCM, CMT), I got targeted with the NSF mailers. I was wondering who's behind the "the sky is falling" doomsday machine. I'm getting a better picture. Don't get me wrong, I'm a skeptic when it comes to the AMA, big pharma and the disease industry. I'm the daughter of an old-guard AMA surgeon and have been privvy to all the "dirty secrets" since I was old enough to understand. Any wonder I ditched med school for alternative practice?

I seriously questioned Laibow's and Stubblebine's motives during a series of personal emails with Laibow. The jist of the discussion was a great deal of unabashedly, self-centered promotion for their "Valley of the Moon" project, as nowhere else in the world is "safe". Numerous items just don't mesh politically or historically:

1. I choked on a huge dose of anti-Canadian sentiment; Kanuks will be subject everything US citizens will be since they're members of the yet to be established (and highly controversial) "Amero Zone". This could be due to a trend in Canada of certain CAM/integrative practitioners to bash their own profession(s) and make life difficult for everyone else. IMHO, it's seriously sick self-loathing.

2. Canada is not subject to the Patriot Act, Homeland Security ACTS or FISA. AS far as I know from Canadian friends in the professions, there's no ominous threats coming down the pike other than the usual legislative garbage. While Canada faces its own health care freedom issues, US laws aren't part the problem.

3. Panama was and always will be, a US imperial/colonial interest. If any wartime mandates under martial law OR secret "experimentation" were to occur, Panama would be much easier to control than Canada.

4. Most disturbing was Laibow's complete lack of concern for the needs of of the 325,000+ veterans returning with TBI (traumatic brain injury) and other disabilities, all with special needs and access. She doesn't give a rat's behind about treating TBI, PTSD, depression or persons with disabilities. Not an attractive attribute for any doctor, let alone a practicing psychiatrist.

5. They don't give a rat's behind about planning for disability access in their precious Valley of the Moon. The repeated response I received was that IF and ONLY IF a disabled person were to "invest", would they concern themselves with "retro-fitting" to meet that individual's needs. Retro-fitting for compliance is far more expensive and complicated than anticipating needs and planning appropriately. Again, not an attractive attribute for a practicing psychiatrist.

6. This blatantly callous attitude obviates discrimination towards persons with disabilities. With so many veterans needing psychiatric care, it's only a matter of time that a few will wind up on her doorstep. Not an attractive attribute for someone promoting healthcare freedom.

7. Laibow made it very clear that she feels absolutely no responsibility to help pick up the slack or sympathy for veterans getting a raw deal from the VA/gov. in regards to their benefits being cut.

 

[cholas]

Ruth, It appears that you have a program running with the 'western medicine is bad' shtick in general and vaccinations in particular. Not sure if this is a work-related sacred cow or not. Adpop's synopsis is dead-on, imo. Another example here:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=9212&p=1.

If someone here is running an 'all western-med is bad' program, kindly point it out perhaps?

Even though you say 'you're right' in the beginning of some of your posts, they don't appear to have the genuine 'ah, I see' quality but rather by the end a defence mechanism has kicked into play and you are essentially argueing your point. It appears somewhat routine and hopefully these hints at such are looked into(and changed?).

As far as the 'drinking while forum-writing' thing goes, I have found that this combination does seem to excite the emotional body, in myself anyway. It might be better to read the posts while having a sip or so, but post the next morning, notes in hand, when some sober clarity is present (Or try the wagon for awhile?). Your last-night's emotion-driven responses may then have faded, ie noise reduction.

 

[mamadrama]

This was in Dr. Mercola's newsletter today.

12 Babies Die During Vaccine Trials in Argentina


At least 12 infants who were part of a clinical study to test a pneumonia vaccine have died in Argentina over the course of the past year.

The study was sponsored by GlaxoSmithKline, and uses children from poor families. According to the Argentine Federation of Health Professionals, the families are "pressured and forced into signing consent forms”.

The vaccine trial is still ongoing despite the denunciations.

Sources:
Trading Markets July 10, 2008

_http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/07/31/12-babies-die-during-vaccine-trials-in-argentina.aspx?source=nl

 

[circegoddess022]

Mamadrama, your link isn't working. I easliy accessed the article by going to www.mercola.com and clicking on articles.

I'd like to make a few comments on Mercola's insights.

First off, many doctors are now questioning the need for vaccines. They're as frustrated as CAM practitioners and the public. The bully tactics of big pharma, federal and state governements to mandate vaccines aren't going to hold up for very long IF we, the people take back our country at the LOCAL LEVELS. This is very important as one previous poster pointed out.

Secondly, as a practitioner that's worked with essential oils for decades, I would like to emphasize Dr. Mercola's application of the oils were via aerosolized particles. This is important for several reasons. There's a certain MLM (and others) that promotes ingesting oils WHICH IS VERY DANGEROUS! With very few exceptions, essential oils should never be ingested, even oregano and other culinary herbs. In there whole state, culinary herbs have powerful, therapeutic effect. When highly concentrated as oils they can become toxic very rapidly as you're getting only the fat-soluable compnents. Since the most difficult toxins that lead to the pro-inflammatory state known as Metabolic Syndrome, are stored in adipose (fat) tissue, the last thing most folks need is another toxic load from a suppsed remedy. Diffused in olive oil as a seasoning or condiment is safe and effective. Eat the herbs whole and use the essential oils for external applications, aromatherapy or diluted as a mouth rinse.

Thirdly, pneumonia has many causes; chemical irritation, primary and opportunisitic bacteria, fungi, parasites, and many, many strains of viruses. Why should we be vaccinating anybody against viruses when there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of strains, that can rapidly mutate? The same goes for influenza, HPV, rhino and rotaviruses.

It's not the "dead" virus that causes the immune response, it's the aluminum. And we all know aluminum is a toxic heavy metal.

 

[mamadrama]

Hi, circegoddess022. Thanks for your post. The link is meant to be copied and pasted, minus the underline ( _ ) at the begining, into your url or address bar. Thanks also for clarifying the dangers of ingesting essential oils, though that topic was posted on another thread in the Diet and Health section, Fighting Fungus - Oregano Oil so you may want to repost there.

First off, many doctors are now questioning the need for vaccines. They're as frustrated as CAM practitioners and the public.

I'm interested in reading about this: more docs questioning the need for vaccines. Do you have any links, data, etc. that I can read to follow up on this? (Other than Drs. Carey or Mercola of course :) ) Also what do you mean by MLM? And by CAM practitioner you mean Complementary and Alternative Medicine practitioner, yes?
Thanks!

 

[circegoddess022]

I copied and pasted, minus the underscore and it didn't work. Mercola's site wants people to sign up for his newsletters and "bonuses".

Try some of these http://thinktwice.com/vaccine.htm. Some of the books listed on this site are written by MD's.

Check out Dr. Sears, http://www.askdrsears.com/thevaccinebook/inside_the_vaccine_book.asp He's willing to be more vocal than the average practitioner.

Try Lawrence Pavelsky's site http://holisticchildhealth.com/. His site doesn't openly mention NOT VACCINATING. I've attended his professional lectures and KNOW FOR A FACT he doesn't recommend vaccines. He's a peds neurologist and treats far too many kids that wind up on the ADD/ADHD/Autisitc Spectrum labels after vaccines. He works to educate parents on the risks involved in using meds of any kind. He's got a great holisitic approach by NOT discussing disease while promoting anti-inflammatory v. pro-inflammatory lifestyles.

The ICPA, International Chiropractic Pediatric Association, advocates education about the high risks involved with vaccines. But then, we're chiropractors and have only been "anti-vaccine" for 115 years! We promote "Well Adjusted Babies" http://www.welladjustedbabies.com/cpa/htm/htm_home.asp and other sources at the links mentioned above.

I personally know pediatricians and family practitioners that are anti-vaccine or quietly don't push them on patients. I feel it wouldn't be appropriate to name them without prior permission. They're fighting for their careers and licenses if they become too vocal.

I'd also like to add a bit about my first post. While, IMHO, Stubblebine and Laibow are dangerous operatives, the timeline regarding weaponized vaccines is accurate. I've been hearing/reading about about this stuff from practitioners, researchers and epidemiologists, etc., for decades.

More recently, I've heard broadcasts on Democracy Now!, International News Network and European news sources about the CDC firing vaccine researchers, government interference with scientists of all kinds doing research for NOAA, NASA, FDA, and other agencies. you can check this out with Union of Concerned Scientists. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to add 2 + 2 when it comes to Infra Guard, Blackwater, KBR, et al. and their roles under martial law as defined under the Patriot Act, Homeland Security Act and FISA. It is astoundingly broad-reaching and deliberately vague in order to force average "joe citizen" into servitude at the whim of the ruling elite. Why Americans keep "gulping the kool-aid", refusing to wake up and haven't rebeled against this evisceriation of the Constitution is dumbfounding to me. The government even has ministers working as covert operatives to enforce martial law under the inoccuous name of "Clergy Response Team".

Sorry I can't find an archived version of President Bush publicly stating he's never been vaccinted for influenze while advocating to the public to get vaccinated (sic). It's probably been carefully culled...truly sick.

 

[circegoddess022]

here's a goood one _http://www.infowars.com/articles/science/autism_none_for_unvaccinated_amish.htmod one

 

[mamadrama]

There's a link on Dr. Carey's website to the Save America Summit _http://www.saveamericasummit.com/indexb.html
Apparently, she is a founding member. This is its mission statement: The Save America Summit (SAS) is an organization of pro-American leaders (like Rush Limbaugh, James Dobson, Sean Hannity, etc. who are listed on this site as supporters) to promote a true conservative ticket as an alternative to the overt Marxism of the presumptive Democrat and Republican nominees. In this pursuit, SAS seeks to unite the various non-leftwing third parties behind a single, attractive candidate, bring on the vast majority of tradionalist Republicans disaffected with the prospect of John McCain, and also welcome pro-life Democrats, newly minted Constitutional Democrats, and members of America's fastest growing party, the "Indepenents."
[This is a side bar next to the mission statement] With America facing a likely judgement, based on countless millions of murdered babies, the desecration of marriage, and the criminalization of public acknowlegement of God, all this may be what we deserve. But the good news is, with things this critical, Americans are waking up, there are some excellent prospective candidates (all Republicans), and God has always been faithful to his remnant. The end is in his hands; meanwhile we will not sit on ours.

So, that's some pretty scary right wing ideology there to me. But even though Dr. Carey's political ideology gives me a good deal of pause, I have not found anything yet that is diametrically opposed to her work on vaccines.