Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program

[Alana]

I've been practicing for over a year now on a daily basis and I was feeling like that at first, but little by little over the months, it changed. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's my predator's mind at work, I don't know. I really have to concentrate hard to keep on breathing out through the mouth, which in the end, actually takes me away from the POTS in itself. Whereas when I stop fighting it, I simply breathe out through the nose at some point during the meditation and generally within a very short time, I start zoning out.

I do the first few rounds of the meditation with breathing through the nose and out through the mouth, as i find it helps me concentrate more on the words of the POTS (it is uncomfortable still for me too to breath out through the mouth during the meditation). As the meditation progresses however, i just let go and allow my body to breath as it feels more comfortable. Like you Mrs Tigersoap, i only zone out when i allow myself to breath as it feels comfortable.

For me it was always not as comfortable to breath out through the mouth when i rest. You say that for you it changed at some point. Was it maybe something to do with the posture? For example, are you doing the meditation at the same place, do you use the same posture, are you using the same number of pillows under your head, etc? In my case i find that the more pillows i use the more it becomes uncomfortable to breath out through the mouth, because the posture of the head pushes my jaws to close... if that makes any sense

 

[Human]

I've been practicing for over a year now on a daily basis and I was feeling like that at first, but little by little over the months, it changed. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's my predator's mind at work, I don't know. I really have to concentrate hard to keep on breathing out through the mouth, which in the end, actually takes me away from the POTS in itself. Whereas when I stop fighting it, I simply breathe out through the nose at some point during the meditation and generally within a very short time, I start zoning out.

I do the first few rounds of the meditation with breathing through the nose and out through the mouth, as i find it helps me concentrate more on the words of the POTS (it is uncomfortable still for me too to breath out through the mouth during the meditation). As the meditation progresses however, i just let go and allow my body to breath as it feels more comfortable. Like you Mrs Tigersoap, i only zone out when i allow myself to breath as it feels comfortable.

For me it was always not as comfortable to breath out through the mouth when i rest. You say that for you it changed at some point. Was it maybe something to do with the posture? For example, are you doing the meditation at the same place, do you use the same posture, are you using the same number of pillows under your head, etc? In my case i find that the more pillows i use the more it becomes uncomfortable to breath out through the mouth, because the posture of the head pushes my jaws to close... if that makes any sense

I noticed a similar thing regarding pillows and breathing.
For me sometimes even one pillow is too much and it's not so much about the jaw or throat but the uncomfortable feeling of bending (like forming a letter V) in belly region (if that makes sense).

Mentioning zoning-out in relation to breathing pattern during POTS made me think about my absence of it. Each time during POTS I've been concentrating very hard on keeping the breathing correct (nose in, mouth out), attentively focusing on POTS words and following the POTS lines with inhaling and exhaling, specially because my thoughts tended to wonder around easily. And when they did, I still kept breathing as proposed; it's just that when I caught them wondering and refocused my attention back to POTS I wasn't sure any more on which line of POTS I was. With that pattern occurring, it's been quite easy to distinguish between mind wondering and zoning-out. At least up till your remarks and today's EE. :/

Today afternoon while doing full EE again after few weeks not doing it, I noticed several dissociations (don't know if they qualify exactly for zoning-out category) for about few minutes each. Usually I would refer to them as mind wonderings only this time I completely lost sense of myself (physicality) and of time, so I don't know exactly how long they lasted. What "pulled" me back from each one of these "dissociations" was spotting that I wasn't breathing correctly (not following the POTS lines). In fact I had the feeling of not breathing at all (after breathing nose-in/mouth-out for quite some time, any other way simply feels unnatural for me, i.e. I would basically have to force myself to breathe in a different way during meditation).

Well, never mind if my "dissociations" were or were not real zoning-out, what I'm wondering is, could it be that any kind of "forcing" oneself to some posture and/or breathing pattern actually inhibits some of the benefits (experiences) of the POTS (EE)? Does "bad forcing" has to do only or mainly with physicality while "forcing" our mind represents kinda training for it?
Or, is it maybe that "forcing" is actually beneficial (if done in correct and proper way, off course)? It's only, like Laura pointed out way back, that for most of us at present level of our development (learning curve) it's just a little bit too much to be engaged in physical disciplinary training together with all emotional and mental stuff being stirred up and released by practicing EE.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Just did the three stage, warrior, and beatha sections of the program. Lately I've been in a kind of slump. Like I mentioned previously, I've had a hard time quieting my mind chatter - thinking about work and projects, feeling restless or anger, having my eyes itch to the point I need to get up and rinse them with water - and just relaxing. After trying a few things (slower breaths, using headphones, using Gurdjieff's advice, trying more visualization; basically paying more attention to what I'm doing!), things have picked up a bit. Last Tuesday I did some zoning during beatha at a group session. I've also felt a lot more at peace during some of my nightly meditations. Today was interesting though. During three-stage, there was a spark of light (which is pretty normal) in the lower right part of my vision. As is usually the case, it startled/surprised me, but while it was happening I was paying more attention to the sensations in my body. Not sure how to describe it, but it was like the surprise gave me a surge/jolt of energy as it captured my attention. Kind of similar to what I described last year when I saw a flame appear in the center of my vision, along with a "whooshing" sound.

Then, during the beatha, I was really relaxed during one of the slow portions, and then the first breath of the fast portion startled me back into it. And while this happened, I saw various 2D shapes/glyphs on a gray background, which moved into a formation as "bah" was vocalized and I breathed in. That was new and strange!

And finally, also during the beatha, there was a moment where the 'chaos' of my internal vision formed itself into a PERFECT, huge spiral, like the one below, but with what looked like hundreds of concentric circles. It was perfectly still, lasted a couple seconds, and then just faded back into the normal blackness and fuzziness of staring at the back of your eyelids.

I felt energized after the beatha ended, so stopped there, got up and helped make a nice dinner, which included crispy buckwheat blinis with salmon (tastes like fish and chips!).

 

[Infiniteness]

I've been practicing for over a year now on a daily basis and I was feeling like that at first, but little by little over the months, it changed. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's my predator's mind at work, I don't know. I really have to concentrate hard to keep on breathing out through the mouth, which in the end, actually takes me away from the POTS in itself. Whereas when I stop fighting it, I simply breathe out through the nose at some point during the meditation and generally within a very short time, I start zoning out.

I do the first few rounds of the meditation with breathing through the nose and out through the mouth, as i find it helps me concentrate more on the words of the POTS (it is uncomfortable still for me too to breath out through the mouth during the meditation). As the meditation progresses however, i just let go and allow my body to breath as it feels more comfortable. Like you Mrs Tigersoap, i only zone out when i allow myself to breath as it feels comfortable.

For me it was always not as comfortable to breath out through the mouth when i rest. You say that for you it changed at some point. Was it maybe something to do with the posture? For example, are you doing the meditation at the same place, do you use the same posture, are you using the same number of pillows under your head, etc? In my case i find that the more pillows i use the more it becomes uncomfortable to breath out through the mouth, because the posture of the head pushes my jaws to close... if that makes any sense

I'm also experiencing the same problem as you guys. In the past I usually did the round breathing inhaling through the nose and exhaling through the mouth. And then just did the ba ha and meditation portion breathing through the nose only. Recently I started doing the whole EE program with inhaling/nose and exhaling/mouth. I'm also finding it much harder to concentrate when doing the breathing this way. Also when I started doing the breathing this way, Ive only zoned out once.

 

[mada85]

Now I notice that breathing out through my nose is quite disturbing and when I want to revert to in and out nose breathing, I have to change gears mentally to accommodate it.

I've been practicing for over a year now on a daily basis and I was feeling like that at first, but little by little over the months, it changed. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's my predator's mind at work, I don't know. I really have to concentrate hard to keep on breathing out through the mouth, which in the end, actually takes me away from the POTS in itself. Whereas when I stop fighting it, I simply breathe out through the nose at some point during the meditation and generally within a very short time, I start zoning out.

Since I wrote my post to which you replied, Mrs T, I have continued to experiment with breathing in through the nose and out through the mouth. I've found that when I practice sitting down, it is very easy to maintain breathing out through the mouth, even while reciting the POTS. When I'm lying down, however, there comes a point where my body wants to stop nose/mouth breathing, and continue breathing only through the nose. At that point I'm usually very relaxed, and sleep or zoning out is not far away :) It doesn't feel completely natural for me to breathe out through the mouth, although it certainly does promote a more deeply relaxed state.

So perhaps I spoke a little too soon in my earlier post :/

 

[Zadius Sky]

I've been practicing for over a year now on a daily basis and I was feeling like that at first, but little by little over the months, it changed. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's my predator's mind at work, I don't know. I really have to concentrate hard to keep on breathing out through the mouth, which in the end, actually takes me away from the POTS in itself. Whereas when I stop fighting it, I simply breathe out through the nose at some point during the meditation and generally within a very short time, I start zoning out.

I did what you have described in the last week for me as I was trying to adjust for comfort during the process (as being comfortable during the program is important). I've recently had some difficulty with breathing out through mouth while lying down during POTS, but breathing out through the nose did cause me to zone out. However, this is not the case when I sat down on the chair when I was able to breathe out through the mouth quite comfortably.

During three-stage, there was a spark of light (which is pretty normal) in the lower right part of my vision. As is usually the case, it startled/surprised me, but while it was happening I was paying more attention to the sensations in my body. Not sure how to describe it, but it was like the surprise gave me a surge/jolt of energy as it captured my attention.

Interesting that. During the three-stage last week (only happened twice so far), I saw a sphere-shaped light in the lower left of my vision which I "interpreted" to be "hurting" me because it felt more like a "shock" than a physical hurt to which it caused me to become more alert. It's tough to describe it, indeed, but only happened during the three-stage, not other portions of the program, osit.

 

[Oxajil]

The change I've noticed in myself mostly is (my emotional center?) being so much more open, in my body, if that makes sense. Like, I can reach myself easier, my feelings and my thoughts. I feel like my observing and Work I has grown a bit bigger than all the other I's. I know the different I's don't communicate with each other or don't even know of each other's existence, but in a way, I feel like they do know this ''Work I'' and started to trust this I. Or maybe it is my inner child trusting myself (more).
I can easier observe what causes my current state of feeling and thinking.

I have to say that 'till now I haven't had any obvious zoning outs, if any...

 

[RedFox]

Today afternoon while doing full EE again after few weeks not doing it, I noticed several dissociations (don't know if they qualify exactly for zoning-out category) for about few minutes each. Usually I would refer to them as mind wonderings only this time I completely lost sense of myself (physicality) and of time, so I don't know exactly how long they lasted. What "pulled" me back from each one of these "dissociations" was spotting that I wasn't breathing correctly (not following the POTS lines). In fact I had the feeling of not breathing at all (after breathing nose-in/mouth-out for quite some time, any other way simply feels unnatural for me, i.e. I would basically have to force myself to breathe in a different way during meditation).

This is what I experience as zoning out.

For those having trouble with breathing, I think the best approach is going to be go with what is most comfortable. You may find after a few weeks/months of breathing in/out through the nose that it then becomes easier to breath in through the nose and out through the mouth.
When you start out it is quite important I think to go with the in through the nose, out through the mouth breathing in the POTS section.....but as you've all been doing it some time now (over a year), perhaps just let it flow a little?

Perhaps as an experiment, try trusting yourself to breath correctly then forget about it once you start it going....try not to worry about it if your mind comes back to it and 'your doing it wrong'....just accept it is as it is, which is perfectly fine and forget about it.
I remember first becoming concious of my breathing as a kid....and controlling it, only to discover that (or so I thought) if I didn't pay attention to it I would stop breathing!! I remember fighting sleep in the worry that I'd suffocate if I didn't stay awake to breath. Well I finally fell asleep......and the next morning I was back to 'automatic' breathing.
Perhaps this is part of what you are all experiencing? Trust your body to know how it needs to breath at this point....and just focus on timing your breathing to the prayer...whatever that breathing/timing may be, as long as its the most comfortable.
fwiw

 

[mada85]

An update on this evening's EE session:

I proceeded through all the stages until the time came to lie down for the meditation section. I experienced some slight bodily tingling during the beatha portion, something that has been happening in the past few sessions. In previous sessions I experienced no tingling during that section. As soon as I got myself comfortable, my lips started trembling and I was overcome with a rush of tears which continued to the accompaniment of Laura's beautiful loving voice and the POTS. These tears I was crying for a family situation of long duration, and for my programmed self. In the middle of my tears I wordlessly asked the Divine Cosmic Mind for help. Help was given very soon after, in the way of less emotional thinking and ease of communication. I would not have foreseen help in this way, as a usual program of frustration and anger was running. This family situation is a very long story, and I think I need to make a post to the Swamp about it.

In this post, in Smallwood's thread, T.C. wrote:

When people who are more capable of giving real love, do give it to people (who are asking) who have a predominantly false self, it feels like hate or bullying or cruelty.

I would like to add that the purity of real love can also touch the heart, revealing, by comparison, the pain that is carried there. That pain, if one allows oneself to feel it, demands expression. In my case, the pain of being starved of love, which demands to be expressed as tears. The vehicle that carried that real love to my heart was Laura's voice.

But if there's a real I somewhere inside, it feels the love.

There's hope for Endymion yet :/

 

[Hesper]

The change I've noticed in myself mostly is (my emotional center?) being so much more open, in my body, if that makes sense. Like, I can reach myself easier, my feelings and my thoughts. I feel like my observing and Work I has grown a bit bigger than all the other I's. I know the different I's don't communicate with each other or don't even know of each other's existence, but in a way, I feel like they do know this ''Work I'' and started to trust this I. Or maybe it is my inner child trusting myself (more).
I can easier observe what causes my current state of feeling and thinking.

I second this observation in myself. Right before I went to bed the other night I had a very intense realization that the "I" that had just been in control a moment before had switched, and that I was a completely different person at that moment. However, there was an observer that noted the differences, and then passed away. I have not been able to duplicate that "seeing" but "I'm" glad that "I" remembered it. Wow. These things are important to observe, right? But becoming acquainted with these I's is, like in G's The First Initiation, changing one's appreciation of oneself, correct? It seems like a change from linear to cyclical thinking takes place too, because in that moment I felt no anticipation, just a pleasant sense that I should try and see it again.

 

[RedFox]

The change I've noticed in myself mostly is (my emotional center?) being so much more open, in my body, if that makes sense. Like, I can reach myself easier, my feelings and my thoughts. I feel like my observing and Work I has grown a bit bigger than all the other I's. I know the different I's don't communicate with each other or don't even know of each other's existence, but in a way, I feel like they do know this ''Work I'' and started to trust this I. Or maybe it is my inner child trusting myself (more).
I can easier observe what causes my current state of feeling and thinking.

Seems this is happening to me too.
Monday morning I was half asleep before waking up...in some sort of half dream hearing a woman singing.....I've had dreams of music/singing in the past that where always quite emotional.
The words where something simple, but one verse was similar to 'divine cosmic mind, live in me today'....and I burst into tears in the dream and woke up crying.

I did the three stage breathing before bed, and was just laying down to do the round breathing when I started to become overwhelmed with a feeling of primal fear. As if my life depended on not getting overwhelmed by emotions....
It may have been irrational, but I stuck with it and decided that I needed to be gentle on myself at this point...I skipped the round breathing and went with the POTS instead, as whatever this was felt extremely delicate so thought the POTS would be a more gentle way of healing it than round breathing.

I have been thinking about my life and why it is the way it is....the conclusion I've had is that some part of me still thinks its me vs the world....and is actively rebelling against it in the only way it knows how.....it seems the primal fear may be from my birth trauma and this could be the drive behind my programs, that the easiest way to shield against the trauma (I suffocated at birth) is to not really live.
I've come to this realisation a few times before....but each time its like stripping a layer of an onion.

Today I noticed that my body seems depressed, even though myself/mind/emotions are in reasonable spirits.....weird.
Later I noticed my belly felt sad.....extremely sad. So I've been staying with this sadness and allowing it to be there throughout the day.
I've noticed its about feeling emotionally safe enough to let it out (which I don't feel yet)....so I'm just being as much comfort/safety as I can to this feeling.
A bug hit my windscreen and splattered on the way in to work, and I burst out crying for a moment.....stopping the automatic negative thoughts that kick in and berate you for 'being so stupid' moments later is pretty hard.

I've also been noticing more and more how my environment, clothes, hygiene and the people and food around me affect my energy levels....
Its pretty weird to put on some clothes that probably should be washed days ago and be aware that they are draining your energy....only to take them back off and your energy return.

 

[Oxajil]

Today I noticed that my body seems depressed, even though myself/mind/emotions are in reasonable spirits.....weird.
Later I noticed my belly felt sad.....extremely sad. So I've been staying with this sadness and allowing it to be there throughout the day.

Did you also ask yourself why your belly feels sad? Did you go through all the things you eat/ate, symbolic meanings etc.? Or did you just recognize the sad feeling and just allowed it to be there? Did you not try to understand?

I've noticed its about feeling emotionally safe enough to let it out (which I don't feel yet)....so I'm just being as much comfort/safety as I can to this feeling.

But perhaps you could atleast question this feeling, trying to understand where it came from, and then letting it Be if you think it is reasonable and healthy for you, your body and your belly, all considered.

A bug hit my windscreen and splattered on the way in to work, and I burst out crying for a moment.....stopping the automatic negative thoughts that kick in and berate you for 'being so stupid' moments later is pretty hard.

Yes, so what is your current strategy to stop these thoughts?

I've also been noticing more and more how my environment, clothes, hygiene and the people and food around me affect my energy levels....
Its pretty weird to put on some clothes that probably should be washed days ago and be aware that they are draining your energy....only to take them back off and your energy return.

Interesting! So have you made any changes yet with these realizations?

 

[RedFox]

I've also been noticing more and more how my environment, clothes, hygiene and the people and food around me affect my energy levels....
Its pretty weird to put on some clothes that probably should be washed days ago and be aware that they are draining your energy....only to take them back off and your energy return.

Interesting! So have you made any changes yet with these realizations?

I only came to the realisation last night.....
I wanted to work on perfecting my technique for repairing a particular type of laptop fault last night.....my equipment being completely disorganised (a complete mess to be honest), all over my bedroom floor (and creeping out into my parents house) I was unable to find the high temperature probe I needed to be successful.....
I have a feeling of stress when this (repeatedly) happens whilst 'wanting' to get the job done. So I eventually stopped and decided to try tidying up instead.....which made me feel infinitely better. I had put on old work clothes to do the job, and upon removing them (they stunk) my energy also picked up along with my thinking.
I have not been able to make any changes beyond that....but did then start questioning the source of this drive to 'do' things in such a way as to create a mess/stress for myself (and others).....self sabotage. But I also look a bit like a tramp at the moment (need to have a shave), and needed a shower badly...so all of these behaviours seem connected.
It was questioning these that led me to the feeling of primal fear.....that I feel I have no space of my own......that I am rejecting all life, rejecting living....because I feel guilty for existing....part of me does fwiw
Symbolically I am surrounding myself with decay......with broken electronics (symbolic of entropy even when they are working)....I remember being identified with 'goth' culture a while ago too....so perhaps its all symbolic of death/decay. Or at least part of me does....
I connected this to my birth trauma (its the only thing I have to go on....perhaps its not needed?)....if I nearly died at birth then perhaps I never really lived (and subconsciously surrounded myself with decay) as a defence against having to face that trauma.
Perhaps I am over thinking this?

Any input welcome.

A bug hit my windscreen and splattered on the way in to work, and I burst out crying for a moment.....stopping the automatic negative thoughts that kick in and berate you for 'being so stupid' moments later is pretty hard.

Yes, so what is your current strategy to stop these thoughts?

Quieting my mind as best I can...moving my focus (with a sense of acceptance) to my feelings and away from 'thinking'.
Any tips welcomed

Today I noticed that my body seems depressed, even though myself/mind/emotions are in reasonable spirits.....weird.
Later I noticed my belly felt sad.....extremely sad. So I've been staying with this sadness and allowing it to be there throughout the day.

Did you also ask yourself why your belly feels sad? Did you go through all the things you eat/ate, symbolic meanings etc.? Or did you just recognize the sad feeling and just allowed it to be there? Did you not try to understand?

I've noticed its about feeling emotionally safe enough to let it out (which I don't feel yet)....so I'm just being as much comfort/safety as I can to this feeling.

But perhaps you could atleast question this feeling, trying to understand where it came from, and then letting it Be if you think it is reasonable and healthy for you, your body and your belly, all considered.

Hopefully my description above explains where I think these feelings come from....I think they where always there, I just managed to gain enough understanding to be able to access them.
But I may be mistaken.....I have not questioned where they came from or why my belly feels sad. I will do so.

I had an image come to mind before and during the POTS.....of a child desperately clinging to something (a ledge?) for dear life....his hand about to give out with exhaustion, and older hands (perhaps my hands?) being placed on his to comfort him only for it to feel like I was trying to force him to let go of the ledge and 'fall to his death'.....the sense of primal fear was quite intense.
Its possible also (thinking back) that I was not allowing him to let go, or perhaps was even putting his hand back?? I don't know.... :/
This is why I decided to skip the round breathing.


*edit* to add I do not know if these emotions where formed at a time when I had words....so its possible they exist in a wordless state of pure emotion. It seems that I need to build an understanding to connect with them.....
As a baby and small child I was easily overloaded by emotions (especially others) and minor changes (to my local environment). My startle response lasted years instead of weeks.

 

[Ollie]

Hi RedFox

...
I connected this to my birth trauma (its the only thing I have to go on....perhaps its not needed?)....if I nearly died at birth then perhaps I never really lived (and subconsciously surrounded myself with decay) as a defence against having to face that trauma.
Perhaps I am over thinking this?
...

You may find reading Making Sense of Suffering - The Healing Confrontation with Your Own Past by J Konrad Stettbacher of help, or not. The book deals with Primal Therapy, giving systematic, and detailed information on his four-step programme. The primal therapy is based on what happens before, during - including near death experiences, and after birth. I am finding it very useful in dealing with my own neonatal trauma.

 

[zim]

Update: Im been doing the 3 stage breathing and warriors breath and I have notice that each time I breath in through the nose I felt as I Im sick something in my throat as when we are sleeping and we are snoring!!! Then when Im breathing out through the mouth feel a little movement in my troat too.

Im dont feel the dizzy, and feel with energy when I finish the warrior breath. For the meditate part Im " falling sleep" each time as soon as the POST finished. :D