Enforcement of VAX escalating

Candice

Jedi
There does seem to be a sharp divide between pro and anti vax viewpoints in society, and I've scarcely seen any external consideration being employed either.
Do you mean by both sides? As in both sides are not showing external consideration for the other side or only the anti-jabbers showing lack of consideration?
I think the C's said there's not a chance of anyone living outside the beast system ultimately, it's a case of "belong or starve", so in a sense I do think we ought to relax a little as a society.
Could you elaborate on “ought to relax as a society”. Are you saying that if we all comply and get jabbed that everything will calm down?

Things are tense and polarised enough as they are, and we have a real challenge now as a collective to navigate a potentially devastating future.
I agree that this discussion promotes polarization but surely there is a lot we can learn about ourselves during such a period. Especially when faced with stress we can learn valuable information about our programs.

I can also understand those who want to try to avoid potential health issues from the jabs especially in the face of a “potentially devastating future” where optimal health may be one of our biggest assets. This is why having an objective discussion about all choices is key.
 

MatiaS

Jedi
I agree that this discussion promotes polarization
I think that this could also be flipped around and we could say that this discussion is in the spirit of depolarisation. The opinions that have been expressed thus far in this thread have evolved since the beginning of the thread. I think people on both sides of the spectrum have gotten valuable information to work with.

Speaking for myself, I can say that my rigid black-and-white stance has been neutralized quite a bit after having participated in this thread. I can see the gray zone more clearly, and all the different specific conditions that might prompt people to act one way or another.

That is not to say that I see myself more likely to get the jab, but my view on the topic has definitely become more broad and accommodating.

A strong motivator and "giver of hope" to me personally on this issue, and my belief in the possibility to avoid the jab, is the country where I'm living, Romania.

From the almost 4 years I've been living here, I've been able to observe and learn a lot about the mindset people have here. Granted I live in a rural area, so surely the mentality is more 'westernized' the closer you move to big cities, but here in the "outback", people are very willing to bend the rules and sneak around the Big Brother system.

One anecdotal example comes from this past weekend when my neighbors went to a quite large open-air market that is organized every Sunday. At the entrance you have to buy a ticket, then a few meters inside the gate someone else "controls" the ticket. When they approached the ticket-seller, the guard from within the gate started yelling at them and saying they can "only enter with green pass". How he knew they weren't vaccinated from a distance I can only speculate about.

Anyway, my neighbor started a small scene, telling the ticket-seller something along the lines of "I don't believe everybody in there is vaccinated". There is a substantial gypsy population of course in Romania and you can bet 90% of them are not getting any kind of jabs.

After a short back-and-forth the ticket-seller gestured to my friend to come closer and told him to go around to the back entrance and they would be let in there. When they got to the back entrance, the lady there already knew they were coming (contact to the ticket-seller via headset assumedly). When they entered, a guard asked for my friend to hold up his phone so he could "scan his qr code", and so he did; fake-scanned my friends phone, and subsequently let the whole group (4 adults and 2 kids) pass, my friend remarking "hey, I'm vaccinated for all of us", as the guard didn't ask to scan anybody else.

I've also heard of multiple stories of people going to get the jab, paying a certain amount of money at the spot to the person administering the shot, and they just squirt the concoction into the thrash can and give the certificate.

I'm sure there are other places in the world where this kind of thing is going on, here it just seems really pronounced. There are many examples I can think of where we hear stories of people doing stuff illegally and under the radar and the phrase we often hear is "it's Romania, this is how it works here".

This is helping me in my strong stance, as even if at some point in the future, shit hits the fan and nationwide mandates are imposed, I don't see much difficulty in finding a work-around, and for instance getting a fake certificate. This probably isn't as applicable to people living in let's say Germany.
 

SOTTREADER

The Living Force
Good question. Personally, I was really torn over getting the jab. Ultimately I chose to go through with it because of my home life, sharing a home with my elderly parents. There was no coercion involved, but I really was in a right struggle over the final decision, and I still wonder if I've just entered a genetic russian roulette game in doing this. Time will ultimately tell if I suffer over this decision or not.

There does seem to be a sharp divide between pro and anti vax viewpoints in society, and I've scarcely seen any external consideration being employed either. I'm instinctively a centrist in my thinking, always have been, and so always tend to look impartially at all available info and viewpoints. It's a bit of a quandry, but I think each individual person has their own situation to face, with its own idiosyncratic factors involved. I think you're right, we should be mindful of these factors informing how each of us make our choices.

And, contrary to some rather extreme theorists, I don't think I've taken the mark of the beast in having the jab. I think the C's said there's not a chance of anyone living outside the beast system ultimately, it's a case of "belong or starve", so in a sense I do think we ought to relax a little as a society. Things are tense and polarised enough as they are, and we have a real challenge now as a collective to navigate a potentially devastating future.

The less tension and internal squabbling the better, we're supposed to be sharing the load on here, not adding to the weight we carry. I made my choice, and now time will unfold and I have to live with the consequences, for good or ill. I trust in the members here that each of us will make the correct choice for our own circumstances.
Thank you for sharing @SlipNet. I could be wrong but I think it takes quite a lot of vulnerability to do so - just my opinion by the way.

I take it you've been okay since you had the jabs? I wonder, since the situation has evolved and now it's widely acknowledged that it doesn't stop spread and there are intentions to keep giving boosters, what's your thinking on more shots? No need to answer if too personal.

Asking to encourage dialogue and help understand your viewpoint as the situation evolves - I'd consider your viewpoint a worthwhile data point, at least for me, as you are someone who's exposed to the "alternative" media space.

That is not to say that I see myself more likely to get the jab, but my view on the topic has definitely become more broad and accommodating.
Same - I think its been quite a useful thread in helping to broaden my viewpoint (speaking from a personal point of view).

At least for me, there's no need (yet) to take the vaccine as it's not a life/ death, eat/starve choice yet. I'm hoping the escalation doesn't push things to that point as I'm not sure what my thinking would be. Unlike many people I'm not particularly fearful of one day meeting my "mortality" as it were. I'd just like to meet it in the right way, if there's such a thing as a choice - if this "hill" proves to have the most "meaning" to it in how I see it, then it's like "screw it" defiant to the end. It's not everyday you get the chance to "die for what you believe in", usually dying just comes say from age or some illness - so for me it's like, okay, this situation holds something to it which isn't necessarily "common place". It's funny if you play with the ideas - I see it as a road where decisions take you down certain paths and the destination might not be clear but it's an adventure - exciting and scary. I'm open to "leaving" the country, I'm open to just say "no" and see what happens after each escalation point etc. I see it as a situation where everyone is making choices in each moment that suits them and that's kind of a wonderful thing and I figure I'm also a person and I'll make my own choices too. The other day I got into a discussion with security to a venue who were checking "vaccine passports". Funny, it went well, in the end he didn't really care when pressed and I was granted entry - could easily have turned back if he said, no. It was just interesting meeting the "reality" and being like, okay, let's see what happens. On the ground, things are yet to be as militaristic as portrayed online.
 

Candice

Jedi
I think that this could also be flipped around and we could say that this discussion is in the spirit of depolarisation. The opinions that have been expressed thus far in this thread have evolved since the beginning of the thread. I think people on both sides of the spectrum have gotten valuable information to work with.
Oh I whole heartedly agree. This is why networking is so important, it pulls us out of identifying only with self and helps us to put ourselves in others shoes and thus increasing awareness through others eyes or experiences.

I should have been clearer that I meant this “discussion” not only for the forum but the general discussion that is causing polarization in the real world. This “polarization” creates internal friction that can be useful in learning more about oneself.

I too was vehemently against getting the jab. However I’ve felt no animosity to those who choose to get it. Most people I know have got it to keep their jobs. Some did it because they’re “science” followers and “believe in science”.

What is interesting for me is my view on taking the jab after reading this thread has changed. I’m feeling more open to it, less stressed by the choice, like a weight has lifted. It’s forced me to look at programs that may have been triggered. So I’m grateful to all that have networked on this topic.
 

SlipNet

Dagobah Resident
Do you mean by both sides? As in both sides are not showing external consideration for the other side or only the anti-jabbers showing lack of consideration?
Well in general I've noticed tempers getting frayed on both sides, which is understandable, but it leaves me with the impression that people are just talking past each other, not really communicating. External consideration, whilst an esoteric term, is nevertheless a common life skill too, and I see less of it in my social life these days, not that I go out much now. It's just something I've noticed more in the last two years. It's not really a problem I've noticed much on the forum though, just a little bit here and there.

Could you elaborate on “ought to relax as a society”. Are you saying that if we all comply and get jabbed that everything will calm down?

No, more that things are really getting strained in our society. Clearly the governments of the world are pushing people to their limit, and to varying degrees we're all suffering from this. For example I'm astounded by how blatantly totalitarian NZ and Australia have become, and I just didn't see it coming. So I don't think people should just chill out more, this is clearly a time to be angry about a great many things. However, this is with my caveat; don't get caught up in it totally, try and find and maintain a calm internal space, and don't get over-identified with righteous fury, could get you into trouble further down the line. "wise as serpents, gentle as doves", as the saying goes.

We've been warned that chaos is on the horizon, so that leads me to think that we ought to sober our minds and keep very cool heads as we navigate this world. As strange as it may seem in the now, but we are just living in the precursor, and the real challenges are yet to come.
 

SlipNet

Dagobah Resident
Thank you for sharing @SlipNet. I could be wrong but I think it takes quite a lot of vulnerability to do so - just my opinion by the way.

I take it you've been okay since you had the jabs? I wonder, since the situation has evolved and now it's widely acknowledged that it doesn't stop spread and there are intentions to keep giving boosters, what's your thinking on more shots? No need to answer if too personal.

Asking to encourage dialogue and help understand your viewpoint as the situation evolves - I'd consider your viewpoint a worthwhile data point, at least for me, as you are someone who's exposed to the "alternative" media space.

S'all cool mate:-), I was a bit hesitant to admit that I'd been jabbed at first, but I took care to point out my reasoning and the response on here has been fine.

I've had no reaction or side-effects since getting jabbed, and my parents and brother are fine too. This idea of twice yearly boosters is starting to take the p*ss though, and I feel for the people on here that have the accurate info, know the dangers and simply want no part of it. It's going to become harder to avoid, that much seems certain.

One thing is certain; this forum is an absolute godsend in these times, and I greatly appreciate all the info and perspectives shared by everyone on here. My position in life has changed, I got the jab, and I had and still have misgiving over that. But life is a marathon, not a sprint, and I'm trying to navigate tricky waters while playing the long game. Networking is our great asset on here, and we'll have to work together more and more in the years to come.
 

Tuulikki

Jedi Council Member
S'all cool mate:-), I was a bit hesitant to admit that I'd been jabbed at first, but I took care to point out my reasoning and the response on here has been fine.

I've had no reaction or side-effects since getting jabbed, and my parents and brother are fine too. This idea of twice yearly boosters is starting to take the p*ss though, and I feel for the people on here that have the accurate info, know the dangers and simply want no part of it. It's going to become harder to avoid, that much seems certain.

One thing is certain; this forum is an absolute godsend in these times, and I greatly appreciate all the info and perspectives shared by everyone on here. My position in life has changed, I got the jab, and I had and still have misgiving over that. But life is a marathon, not a sprint, and I'm trying to navigate tricky waters while playing the long game. Networking is our great asset on here, and we'll have to work together more and more in the years to come.
I think opinions and views on this forum have been changing in the past months regarding this topic In my personal opinion that is good. Things should be fluid instead of heavily black or white. My thoughts about the vaccination were originally...NEVER, EVER. But time and events soften the edges a bit. My vaccine stance has already lost me my job and although I am able to get another fairly easily, I wonder how long that will continue also. As restrictions continue to bite are we eventually to find it difficult to obtain the basics for everyday life, food, fuel, access to some kind of social life? No member on here will have been jabbed willingly. Everyone knows the score by now and if they have submitted to it then it is because it is absolutely necessary for them, perhaps regarding dependents, work, finances etc. The basic tenent here is that they understand and have knowledge of what is going on. They are not being blindly led down the garden path as so many others are. That must hold them in good stead for the future. I hope so anyway.

I am glad that you have not had any problems with the vaccination Slipnet. I agree with you that it is going to be harder to avoid in the coming months. I intend to hold out as long as I possibly can but none of us can know the future. I am hoping that events will occur which will change things for all of us (preferably in the very near future).
 

BHelmet

The Living Force
Part of the changing view is due to changing data and info as much as the morphing of the arguments. Bottom line is it is still a crap shoot. What are the odds? At the end of the day it’s still Clint Eastwood with a gun to your head saying “Do you feel lucky.... Punk?.”

And how many times will it be necessary to be lucky?
 

Sol Logos

Dagobah Resident
Pro-vax is a misnomer IMHO. Who believes everyone should take every substance called a vaccine no matter what? Few if any is my guess. Most people weigh risk and benefits from they’re perspective - it’s how they do that and the information they use that counts. I’d say the same for anti-vax and vax-hesitant. Unhelpful labels at best and tools for propaganda at worst.
 

SlipNet

Dagobah Resident
I just wanted to add a little to my earlier posts on this thread about my experience with the vaccine. On one occasion over Christmas I suffered momentary chest pains, it lasted about a minute. Very painful but brief. I drank a whisky and life went on as normal, I was watching a film and didn't worry about it. It's been about a week now and there's been nothing else to report.
 

gottathink

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Pro-vax is a misnomer IMHO. Who believes everyone should take every substance called a vaccine no matter what? Few if any is my guess. Most people weigh risk and benefits from they’re perspective - it’s how they do that and the information they use that counts. I’d say the same for anti-vax and vax-hesitant. Unhelpful labels at best and tools for propaganda at worst.
Although I do know of people that equate vaccination with being rational and so anything that is labelled as a vaccine they believe is a “properly” developed vaccine.

As you say there’s a big problem with labels, I think people want to be associated with a particular moral or academic ideal. As well as wanting to be seen to be associating with these. Unfortunately these ideals do not account for the nuances of reality.

Additionally many people appear to completely trust the medical establishment and if their doctor says so they do so.
Some did it because they’re “science” followers and “believe in science”.
And this: Exactly!
What is interesting for me is my view on taking the jab after reading this thread has changed. I’m feeling more open to it, less stressed by the choice, like a weight has lifted. It’s forced me to look at programs that may have been triggered. So I’m grateful to all that have networked on this topic.
That’s great, I have just caught up on the last few posts here and from what you guys are saying I can also see a noticeable shift towards less angst about forced vaccinations. We “keep calm and carry on”.
 

Voyageur

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Enforcement of Vax escalating is the title, and for whatever reason had not well followed this thread (it was an active thread for a short period), which has gone cold now since January.

Reading the posts here, can well sympathize with peoples choices being made to do or not to do, which is so individual. The thread started as people were getting their heads around the post initial rollouts. orders, mandates and to do or not to do, and the enforcement to make compliance the reality. For me it became the 'not to do' as an individual reason. Had read enough on these vaccines (if they are to be called that) make up, however what became apparent for me was in working relatively closely in the beginning with Health agencies, even though I was not directly associated per se. Also, it had been usual as part of the job to get media releases to read and ponder at work. However these releases got ramped up with carefully produced headlines and narratives to help frame the stories around the pandemic'ish complexities of fear, heightening individual and social anxieties. This was every day news reading. Soul crushing reading comes to mind.

These incremental steps being used immediately started to become apparent - carrot and stick, and a little more carrot and stick, then all stick. It became more than clear within days that pandemic-propaganda was becoming art-form used very effectively. Word play was cemented as only the Orwellian can do, while targeting body-centric emotions of whole populations. The science had no real science at all for lack of all the papers vilified or outright suppressed. IMO, the cat was out of the bag quickly, but it still has to be dealt with by each individual applied to their own circumstance and understandings. A failure for so many gov/health/corporate groups - often tied at the hip to each other, such as doctors, nurses et cetera, was that very few stood up. They easily could have in vast numbers. However, even their unions rolled over with hardly a fight, while CEO's, directors and upper managers bit their lips as they were served 'emergency' directions from above. One minute they are talking about human rights, the next it is that the lawyers are telling us you really don't have any.

From my perspective, the focus of work had always been on helping businesses, and then with covid events, quick response became how they would manage the illusion of a pandemic; what would lawyers write, what polices would form their backbone to manage and be implemented - step by step, lie by lie it was all laid down for businesses and their workers, which I was a worker. Now many businesses did not like this (although stated quietly), however the pressure was enormous in the face of escalating 'cases' - and how to get by and get back to normal. How to play the game and hope the bad dream would go away, then realizing it was not about to go back to normal (openly stated by the politicians de jour). For me, and what ultimately became my choice; age became a factor, but it was also other factors, such as social woke conformities - indoctrinations in the workplace of the worst kind that was becoming standard HR script. When the vaccine mandates happened, I did my best to get around them with exemptions, but unlike some countries with better constitutions and judges, the window was only open for the very very few, quickly making it an exercise in futility to make argument. When the employer finally said, sorry, we cannot accept you doctors exemption, Huston, we got a problem, a doctor apparently meant nothing anymore.

If it had come to taking a vaccine (again, whatever you call the term), the many pages in threads on protocols would help, and had briefly though to do so, but for me it would come down to either taking their corporate policy knee or finding another way (and some just can't, it is completely understandable), so the the latter became the reality. Thus, I joined the ranks with many others and simply became unemployed; no flights, restaurants or easy access - a vax-pass persona non grata, xmas-excommunicated and all around socially shunned like a leper in this increasingly bizarro world. I've also good friends and colleagues who could not go the non-compliance route, even though they well knew the game and they tried their very best (and others who just believed, openly saying they believed Fauci). In the end, whatever the choice, people were either fearful or beaten down, bullied, threatened and even terrorized by government order or or corporate policies - policies that were helped in their development using standardized language coming off the shelf from outside.

If one is to glance back at Dr. Robert Hare's The Corporation, this is just how it is when it comes to many workplaces. That said, not all of the managerial class within corporations think this way, but many in fact do, and the gap is getting wider to include so much more nonsense that would never have been allowed before. In the sense of psychopathy, the standard advise is to get away - leave, and a corporation exhibiting highly in this trait is no different, you stay or leave.

It is now into eight months from this last entry on this thread, and indeed "enforcement" has not left the table, although in some places it has the appearance of being abated, for now and in other areas it is being cemented. So, have people who have written here changed their thinking, and if so, how?

Lastly, it is highly likely that things are going to change again; mandated vaccinations being just one vector of many in order to be allowed to participate in society, economically or otherwise. So, once again we may well find ourselves making choices, and this time being employed or unemployed may matter not. Enforcement may be passive, escalated or completely abject.

My thanks for the posts peeps made in this thread, some have been tough to read just as they have been interesting to read, and I feel for the many having to have made the choices either way.

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.
― C.S. Lewis
 

aragorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Thanks, Voyager, for bumping this thread, I had forgot that it existed. I hope you have found a new job by now!

Personally, I feel that now that the fog has cleared a bit the reality of how they coerced, lied, bullied and bribed us to take the jabs is even more horrifying. Now seeing some of those old clips or news articles with our 'wonderful leaders' openly bullying and threatening unvaxxed people feels even more unreal – and makes me angry.

Regarding the jab mandates, at some point when the hysteria and bullying was at its peak I purchased most of the supplements belonging to Keyhole's/Gaby's protocol. I wasn't sure if I could ever go along with taking the jab but I wanted to be prepared. That was a time, at least where I live, that the scale was on the verge of tipping towards total mandatory vaccinations in all work places. They got so far as to mandate them to the health care workers but then Omicron came, and the thing slowly fizzled out.

I can say that my resistance towards taking the jab(s) is now at a point that it's a completely impossible idea to me. Maybe I'm emboldened by the fact that most (or, many?) people have realized by now that these jabs don't work – so there's maybe more understanding for peeps who don't want to take them than before (I could be wrong!). So loosing my job by refusing is not at least right now a reality. Another thing is that even if I don't know anyone personally who has died from the jabs, I've seen enough first hand evidence of jabbed people having all kinds of chronic ailments/problems that are probably caused by them.
 

Nachtweide

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
In Germany, vaccinations are compulsory for the healthcare system until December 31st, 2022. I'm sure it WILL NOT be expanded as the government calculates that those affected will not be able to get through this period and will wait and see. Many employees have left the system and found jobs that mean a permanent home for them. Vaccination was never an option for me, on the other hand there was a great danger of having to give up my practice. Getting caught up in the judiciary and administration was not my interest either. So I went for a "dirty" solution that cost me some money. No one can force me to sacrifice my health to the system and you can use means that are just as illegal as all the mendacious measures. What reassured me was the fact that there is a high proportion of people in the healthcare sector who have used this way out. Someone has to have the reins in the end when it collapses.
 

Voyageur

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Regarding the jab mandates, at some point when the hysteria and bullying was at its peak I purchased most of the supplements belonging to Keyhole's/Gaby's protocol. I wasn't sure if I could ever go along with taking the jab but I wanted to be prepared.

Agree, being prepared.

Was also thinking on a few things the C's said, and have not gathered them up here to any extent (protocols, bad batches, peoples attitudes et cetera), like when they discuss negative pictures on cigarette packages being something like, they are there for people who think 'to expect it' to happen - it is suggestive aimed to defeats them. A possible fallout out of so many negative images of people sufferings from these vaccines may play along this same lines, don't know, and yet it is a reality too in a percentage of people. Conversely, people who don't think at all about taking them don't have this in mind (it is saving them from covid after all, they opine).

This might be helpful for some:

From 21 March 2020:

Q: [laughter] (L) However, the question has been asked: If people are forced to be vaccinated, and it seems that it's not a good idea - because obviously if they get a vaccine that the PTB really want to spread around, one they've tested and does what they want it to, we certainly don't want the vaccine they push on us - are there ways we can counteract this? There are going to be situations where people can't refuse a vaccine.

A: Yes. You have done the research!

Q: (L) So what research have we done about healing DNA? Um... Melatonin heals DNA.

(Niall) Dietary changes.

(L) Being in a proper dietary state if you have to get a vaccine is going to be beneficial and maybe it is for just this type of situation that we were so motivated to do health research and experiments for so long; it was preparation and we didn’t even know it.

(Artemis) Being in ketosis heals you.

(Gaby) Vitamin C.

(Niall) Detoxification.

(L) Detox would be NAC and other things...

(Andromeda) Infrared sauna.

(Chu) Constant knowledge input.

(L) Willpower even. And they just mentioned that there are certain people with spiritual force who were able to modify the virus by their own inner powers in a positive way. I would imagine that having inner force or inner spiritual power would all be beneficial. Are we on the right track?

A: Yes yes yes!
 
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