Eric Pepin - Higher Balance Institute - Discussion

Handbook of the Navigator

Yeah, have you read it already?

It seems like there is a big push for his meditation system, which I found you have to purchase online in order to learn it. Is this your understanding as well?
 
Handbook of the Navigator

Yep, that's my understanding, especially after i bought most of the system. The foundation, and many expansion modules.
 
all the nay-sayers seem to be very good at scrutinizing and deconstructing...


however, the only problem i see is that they haven't put anything in it's place.


if your notion of spirituality is only about deconstructing the way a system must reach out to people through advertising or making bold statements... i think you perhaps lack the ability to take things in on a large scale and could use a dose of perspective. we live in a world saturated with over-stimulation and social/cultural phenomena that seduces us into waking slumber... i think we can allow the leveraging of such things as advertising and bright colors. the buddhists do it in their own way too... and have been doing it for a very long time.



the fact that some here have resistance to new experiences.. . tells me nothing about the system. this is not news to me (and you also, i am pretty sure). just take ANY system of development and i assure you, not everyone who uses it will see obvious benchmarks in their progress. this lack of experience has virtually nothing to do with the adequacy of a system, unless it is complete hogwash, which Higher Balance is not.


expectation can be very subtle, so don't assume it is illigitimate for the support staff to address just because you can't see its paradoxical role. it can be as simple as *expecting* that a revelatory experience will come in the form of something tangible to the 5 senses... or their reflection in some dimension of your imagination... or in some bodily sensation. i'm not saying that you should have blind faith... but that a GENUINE open-ended/pragmatic intention to consistently apply and reflect with these techniques will reveal more than you would have ever expected. ... just let go and see what YOU might be contributing to your inertia :)






what i've learned about most who are posting here is that you have knowledge and techniques you apply that connect you directly to source consciousness... that give you direct experiences of an intense multi-dimensional nature and are a means for the highest level of communion with god/universe/absolute/etc...

so where are they? what are they? how do they work?


the vibe i get here is that people aren't very giving... there are those who dominate the intellectual terrain here and sort of sit on a bit of a high horse... and those who suckle at their proverbial teets... why? i dunno... maybe because this is how social networks naturally emerge as the laws of attraction play on 'sentient' automata ^____^

but i digress;
i think we should start integrating and finding out how our systems are similar and work together in our desire to find what we seek most... instead of sitting back like a bunch of heirophants who can't see our own predicament. if the support staff told you that you need to surrender expectation, then you probably do. none are exempt from this fact. you must see truly how it is manifesting for YOU.

the other thing is... its been 3+ years and you're still getting ABSOLUTELY NOTHING as a result??... seems like you would have found something better and more authentic... or at least taken advantage of their 'lifetime money back guarantee' and refrained from purchasing any additional material ... hehe

so tell me ... where is it? please share with us... we all want the best knowledge... so i think it would be worth it for you and for everyone else to discover the cutting edge.


... c'mon. let's deflate all the cunning egoic chameleon suits here and really ask ourselves... is it the techniqe that must be deconstructed? or is it the interior/karma of the individual in question here.

i honestly do not believe it is the method. methods are containers; delivery systems... and also potentially traps, as much as you need them to get a footing and bridge over to higher awareness... who really cares how you learn just as long as you GET IT?

i'm not saying that it is the one true way for anything....

what i'm saying is that if most people are satisfied with FEELING BETTER about life and have found some adequate system for translating their experience in this dimension and for legitimizing their worldview... then, so be it. that is everyone's right as a child of the universe... but for the others out there that have wandered the metaphysical desert of this world... in this paradigm.. nothing else will suffice.




:)


respect,

aw
 
Anders said:
Did this happen because the teaching was good or simply because of who they were? Had these same 300 followed another system, they might have had similar results. It they had followed no system at all they might have had similar results.
actually, those who use the system who have gained the most have used a great many of the systems out there.... sometimes up to 40+ years... and had no experiences that were as ultimately fulfilling.



heh.. and if i had been born into a wealthy family then i would've had a new car handed to me at age 16 :) ... in other words... i see your point as being a bit frivolous...



if this is the general climate of this group when something different steps in... and if this is all your spiritual practices have inspired in you as a way to interact with others and assimilate/adapt to new things... if this is as open-minded as it gets... well.... umm... yikes!




peace to ya :)
 
alpha_wheel said:
Anders said:
Did this happen because the teaching was good or simply because of who they were? Had these same 300 followed another system, they might have had similar results. It they had followed no system at all they might have had similar results.
actually, those who use the system who have gained the most have used a great many of the systems out there.... sometimes up to 40+ years... and had no experiences that were as ultimately fulfilling.
Is that your own experience? or do you simply believe what others are telling you?

Did you speak to the 99% that did not experience something major? or only to the top trainers eg. the 1%.?


alpha_wheel said:
heh.. and if i had been born into a wealthy family then i would've had a new car handed to me at age 16 :) ... in other words... i see your point as being a bit frivolous...
1% of people are born into wealthy families.

alpha_wheel said:
if this is the general climate of this group when something different steps in... and if this is all your spiritual practices have inspired in you as a way to interact with others and assimilate/adapt to new things... if this is as open-minded as it gets... well.... umm... yikes!
Is posing questions to a system that promotes itself as "Gods gift to mankind" (my words) heresy?

I looked at the website of Higher Balance and under mission statement it says http: (2slashes www).higherbalance.com/meditation_aboutus.html
Higher balance institute said:
Ask anyone who has participated in the Higher Balance program and they will tell you, 'That distant star, the one on the horizon, unreachable and unknowable? Closer than you could ever imagine.' At that moment they would open the palm of their hand and you would see it, so infinitely small, yet so perfect, so beautiful, this tiny magical glowing star.
From just the few comments in this thread, this statement appears to at best be misleading and at worst an outright LIE.

Why is it that so many religions and new age movements make so many claims, demand followers to suspend belief, and are vehemently opposed to questioning?
Surely if it is as good as it is always promoted then there would be nothing to fear as the results would speak for themselves.

It would further be a mistake to judge this Forum solely on what I say. Did you read what Esoquest wrote on page one and where she among other very salient comments points out what this Forum is about? Inner growth and transformation as opposed to learning skills and new tricks.
Part of that is to remove the pink colored glasses superimposed on reality and see it as it is.

Having been part of the New Age circus I have seen a bit and the spiel is always the same.
Every year or two someone repackages old techniques and therapies and sells them as the latest wonder for all to behold.
It promises that people will be happy and blissful (wishful thinking) and the demand is high as everybody has an experience that is in stark contrast to what is promised.
People are on a high after the group/training and then the glow fades. After a month or two it has gone completely if it ever was there and lo and behold the next year a new wonder therapy/course rolls into town and it all repeats. Just like the annual circus that comes to town =)

I am not saying that Higher Balance or whatever institute/group/ is not for you or anybody else. Whoever has to have that experience will have it. There might be some things that you will learn from it, but it should not stop us from questioning it or giving appropiate feedback to people who come here doing a sales pitch for it. That would be closed-minded.

As the C's say:" Knowledge protects, Ignorance endangers"

Anders
 
anders,

i think you may have missed my point... and it has nothing to do with the system in question, per se. i'm not talking about rose colored glasses, either. that has to do w/ the individual and nothing to do with the effectiveness of techniques. and the quote you decided to take from the website ... i don't see what the problem is... it has a very positive feel to me... you must like things to be packaged a certain way. think about *that* one for a while ;)

and when you talk about 'seeing reality as it is'... which reality are you referring to, exactly?


i don't see anyone who's vehemently opposed to questioning... call the 800 number to rant and crusade against them... i'm sure they'll be happy to elucidate whatever misconceptions you have and diffuse the sour taste in your mouth. (i hope you see the humor in that)

i mean, if you're going to maintain that you can question it... then i'll maintain that i can question your perspective or anyone else's :)

and so appropriately...

if you're going to knock something down, at least put something substantial in its place.


i don't think its fair to slam a system you know nothing about... simply because you don't like how it looks... or it just didn't work out for a few people or whatever. its just a very small piece of a very large pie... and if you've honestly tried it and don't jive with it, then hey man, that's cool too.

it just seems like all this questioning and scrutiny has become pathological and you have forgotten what value can be found in innocence... in trusting yourself to take the RIGHT ACTION in your desire for awakening. screw the delivery system.. it doesn't matter. TRUE knowledge and liberation are not going to be found in the splitting of hairs and semantic psuedo-science. where's the pragmatic injunction? where is the ACTION you are recommending that i try in order to find what i seek most? what things in my experience am i overlooking that could possibly set off a chain reaction of epiphanies that lead to my enlightenment? what do you have to offer a seeker that will show them how to experience for themselves? armchair skepticism? i'm sorry, but sitting back and thwarting everything you have an aversion to sort of shows me where you're coming from now, doesn't it? i realize this is just a front that i am seeing and that there is REAL depth to you... but, if its all about "inner growth and transformation" here... i find it a bit dissapointing that this is all that the inner growing and transforming has done for you.

i can honestly sympathize with you though. although it seems to me that the person i'd really like to hear from is wilecoyote *



take care


aw
 
alphawheel said:
if you're going to knock something down, at least put something substantial in its place.
Why? This makes no sense, actually. If a person finds something to be purely subjective and, therefore, false - they why must a person 'put something substantial in its place'??

alpawheel said:
it just seems like all this questioning and scrutiny has become pathological and you have forgotten what value can be found in innocence... in trusting yourself to take the RIGHT ACTION in your desire for awakening. screw the delivery system.. it doesn't matter. TRUE knowledge and liberation are not going to be found in the splitting of hairs and semantic psuedo-science.
It appears that you are very fast asleep, dreaming that you are trying to awaken. You also appear, from this post, to be caught in some sort of subjective thought loop that reinforces its own validity as it goes round and round.

Apologies, Alphawheel, but most people here aren't very interested in the brand of sleep you appear to be 'selling'.
 
it actually does make sense.

just not your time, i suppose.


all i was asking for was for some kind of constructive communication....

simply because you say something "is purely subjective and, therefore, false" ... does not necessarily make it so. and neither does saying that i'm "fast asleep" implying that you are superior based entirely on a message board thread. think of how juvenile that is... not to mention ignorant, arrogant... etc... i mean, i hope you don't ban me or something... its just interesting what happens when someone comes in with a bit of a different perspective. all the fingers start pointing and instead of integrating... you think i'm pushing some kind of "sleep"?

what the .... ?

are you 17? or an extremely jaded 47, perhaps?


if a person says they are about inner truth and growth and all that good stuff.. yet this person doesn't put anything out there to help people awaken spiritually (aside from magic/mythic belief systems and paranoid/conspiratorial thinking, which are dead in the water as far as i'm concerned)... then what "brand" of awakening are YOU selling? somebody please tell me what the BEST WAY to establish whether something is legitimate in this context. i am genuinely asking... and it seems all i'm met with is sour deconstruction attempts and rude, unwelcoming posts (so far)...


i'm not selling anything. you've got me all wrong here.

you would see that this is a pretty sad state of affairs if you could take your subjective head of our your own you-know-what and lighten up a little...




aw
 
alpha_wheel said:
if you're going to knock something down, at least put something substantial in its place.
Like Anart asks: WHY?

It is a general problem. Most people would rather believe a lie that to admit that they don't know. This 'fault' has ben exploited for millenia by organized religions and in the later years by New Age saviours.
We give our authority away by believing somebody or something outside of ourselves. By stripping away the lies of the matrix system that has been programmed into us we end up with what is. It might not look pretty or feel groovy BUT it is what is. This is the first step in finding out about reality osit.

Questioning is key to discover ones own ignorance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates said:
Finding that they knew nothing and yet believing themselves to know much, Socrates came to the conclusion that he was wise only in so far as he knew that he knew nothing. Socrates' superior intellect made the prominent Athenians he publicly questioned look foolish, turning them against him and leading to accusations of wrongdoing.
The choice is yours.

Anders
 
alpha_wheel said:
it has a very positive feel to me... you must like things to be packaged a certain way. think about *that* one for a while ;)
Why should we care what it "feels" like to you? Why is that in any way a criteria? People "feel" things all the time. So what? Most of those "feelings" are programmed responses to stimuli and are nothing more than a mechanical reaction. Most people aren't "feeling" anything; they are being "felt" in the sense that it is a completely passive and automatic experience. Until the three lower centres are brought into balance, when the intellect can inform the sentiments of the heart, those feelings are worthless as a basis for judgement.

I know people who "feel" the Maharaji is a manifestation of the Divine. I know other people who "feel" that there is nothing more than the material world in front of their eyes. I know others who "feel" that George W. Bush is doing a great job.


alpha_wheel said:
and when you talk about 'seeing reality as it is'... which reality are you referring to, exactly?
Obviously, you kow little or nothing of our work if you need to ask this question. It is therefore not surprising that you can't participate intelligently in the discussion here. By that, I mean that you haven't read the material so you don't know what we are talking about, don't know the previous discussions on this type of material, and are unable to bring any new data that might help us reformulate our hypotheses.

The reality is the one in which we are born, grow, and die. It is that reality we are here to understand and figure out. We are here to learn to discern between the Creative force and the Entropic force. To think any of us are above it because we have learned that "we are all one" or that "god is in everything" or because we can do some psychic tricks is to fall into a trap. We may have a spark of divinity within us, but we are not yet at the level where we can act as if we were god by ignoring the character of the different manifestations in this world.

Therefore, we have to get down and dirty in this world and learn about psychopathy and understand the very real possibility that half of the population of this planet have no soul potential and will never understand what it is we are talking about. We have to learn to defend ourselves from psychopathic forms of behaviour, predators, and used spiritual training salesmen by developing our ability to discern the true from the false and to recognise the signs of a false teaching, among other things.


alpha_wheel said:
i don't see anyone who's vehemently opposed to questioning... call the 800 number to rant and crusade against them... i'm sure they'll be happy to elucidate whatever misconceptions you have and diffuse the sour taste in your mouth. (i hope you see the humor in that)

i mean, if you're going to maintain that you can question it... then i'll maintain that i can question your perspective or anyone else's :)
If you are going to come here and question us, then take the time to read the material on our website, Laura's books, and all of the discussions on the forum before formulating your question. If you had done your homework, you would understand that the type of teaching you are promoting has been discussed ad nauseum.

If you "feel" that there is something different about Higher Balance, then read when we have to say on other such teachings and bring new data to show us where and how it is different. That would be a constructive contribution to the conversation. Your subjective impressions add nothing to a discussion that is on-going in our work for years. But if you have no idea what that discussion has entailed, then you are in no position to comment upon it.


alpha_wheel said:
and so appropriately...

if you're going to knock something down, at least put something substantial in its place.
Our web site discusses in great depth our approach to the work. It is absolutely nothing to do with subjective statements appealing to how one "feels" about a teaching or not. The goal of our work is to arrive at an objective as possible understanding of reality. That requires working with others and overcoming one's subjectivity, not enshrining it.


alpha_wheel said:
it just seems like all this questioning and scrutiny has become pathological and you have forgotten what value can be found in innocence... in trusting yourself to take the RIGHT ACTION in your desire for awakening. screw the delivery system.. it doesn't matter.
This statement shows you understand nothing of the hyperdimensional reality in which we live. We are all being manipulated on levels that we can't comprehend. Thoughts, ideas, feelings and impressions can be implanted in us in order to influence our thinking and feelings. That is why a group is needed, a group where our impressions can be compared with others.

You can't possibly trust yourself to take RIGHT ACTION in these circumstances. Sometimes you will; sometimes you won't. Only by tuning your reading instrument with the aid of others can you slowly and over time develop the ability to "trust" yourself. But before that, you have to understand that your mind is not your own and that you cannot trust it at all.



alpha_wheel said:
TRUE knowledge and liberation are not going to be found in the splitting of hairs and semantic psuedo-science. where's the pragmatic injunction? where is the ACTION you are recommending that i try in order to find what i seek most?
Nothing you have said here so far gives me any idea that you are capable of DOing anything. To understand what I mean by that, I refer you to In Search of the Miraculous by Ouspensky.


alpha_wheel said:
what things in my experience am i overlooking that could possibly set off a chain reaction of epiphanies that lead to my enlightenment?
Who cares about enlightenment. Who sez that what we need is "enlightenment"?

If this is what you have received from Higher Balance, what are YOU actually DOing? How are you applying your "enlightenment"? How are you giving back to Creation and the Universe?


alpha_wheel said:
what do you have to offer a seeker that will show them how to experience for themselves? armchair skepticism? i'm sorry, but sitting back and thwarting everything you have an aversion to sort of shows me where you're coming from now, doesn't it? i realize this is just a front that i am seeing and that there is REAL depth to you... but, if its all about "inner growth and transformation" here... i find it a bit dissapointing that this is all that the inner growing and transforming has done for you.
If you are interested in this, seriously interested, there are thousands of pages on our web sites describing it.


alpha_wheel said:
i can honestly sympathize with you though. although it seems to me that the person i'd really like to hear from is wilecoyote *
Then why don't you start your own discussion forum on this topic on your own website and invite wilecoyote to discuss it there?


alpha_wheel said:
if this is the general climate of this group when something different steps in... and if this is all your spiritual practices have inspired in you as a way to interact with others and assimilate/adapt to new things... if this is as open-minded as it gets... well.... umm... yikes!
Being open-minded doesn't mean accepting anything and everything that comes across your path. It doesn't mean allowing any and every idea presented here to go unchallenged.

If the "new thing" is the same old, tired, subjective product that we've seen in other forms, we aren't interested. If it works for you, that's fine. Go start a forum about it and allow people to come and post there. Here, we have another way of working, and your sales job, masked as just wanting to talk, isn't wanted.

Before we assimilate something, we need to make certain that it isn't a Lie. Part of finding that out is putting the ideas and those who brandish them to the test.

So far, you're not doing very well.

If that isn't comfortable for you, too bad.
 
Handbook of the Navigator

wilecoyote said:
It would be interesting to have an analytical, not subjective discussion on the topics covered in the book with the members of this forum, since there is mention of hyperdimensional realities.
Then give us a comparison of what the book says with the ideas presented on this forum and on our web sites. Give us data, tell us what it says about hyperdimensional realities and compare that with what we have written on the topic. Compare the Work on the self, as it is presented there, with the Work as it is presented and actually manifested here on this forum.

In other words, do some "work", be serious, give something back to the forum, and don't expect to be spoonfed.
 
i would reply to this...


but so far my experience has been that if someone doesn't think like you do, then they just don't get it...

deconstruction at its finest.


enjoy your virtual reality :)
 
If you two guys represent the results of the work of the "Balance Institute," then they need a new program. Nice psychopathic term: "Deconstruction." Has a certain paramoralistic ring to it...
 
Wow! Such energy and commitment in this thread, even drew in a site moderator! :)

(btw I'm new here - googled this forum and found this intense thread)

Have a few questions. Wiley, have you gone through any other HBI courses? If so which ones. I just got into HBI a while back, and so far I really like Eric's approach/explanations, and how my meditations have gone, but this thread and your experiences (lack of) got me thinking a few different ways with my own approach. I'd like to pick your brain if you don't mind?

Also Henry, you mentioned to alpha, "If you had done your homework, you would understand that the type of teaching you are promoting has been discussed ad nauseum."

Would you be kind enough to point me toward that info? I don't have much time for forum browsing with all the other stuff I'm working on, but if it's familar to you, or if it wouldn't be too out of your way, I'd like to review what you are referring to. I inquire because HBI seems really unique compared to other guru-at-a-distance programs out there, but I would still like to educate myself. And you all have a 'high technical taste and flavor' so...

Anyway I would really appreciate it!

Take care.
 
lifeglance said:
I don't have much time for forum browsing with all the other stuff I'm working on, but if it's familar to you, or if it wouldn't be too out of your way, I'd like to review what you are referring to.
If you do not have time for searching the information that may happen to be relevant, then you certainly have no time for HBI.

lifeglance said:
I inquire because HBI seems really unique compared to other guru-at-a-distance programs out there, but I would still like to educate myself.
What is so unique? Unbalancing the minds in such a way that they produce nonsense like "deconstruction"? There is nothing unique about it!

From HBI front page:

Profound direct experiences create a deep, personal connection with the Universe! Often described as Nirvana, Enlightenment, or experiencing God. Choose to call it what you will but the results remain the same; completion and knowing your purpose.
So, dear HBI advocates. please tell us here, and do not skip the details: what is your purpose?
 
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