ETA?

Ekios said:
anart said:
Ekios said:
Depending about how it will go "oustide" she will probably come back on those topics and ask me more about them. Maybe she is reading SOTT by herself, getting on her own process tracks, who knows :)

I think this is serious wishful thinking on your part and that you need to study up on strategic enclosure and external consideration.
Oh well ... I guess I will keep it shut for a while then :)
Thank you for the "repositioning"

Yeah, if it was a significant other with whom you've been realizing different levels of development and she basically "caught" you looking at what she considers "weird" stuff, I wouldn't hold out that much hope for her looking into it on her own. I was thinking more along the lines of meeting people in a mixed setting and somehow the topics come up and they are the ones initially driving the conversation. Of course this could be some kind of trap as well, and one must always be cautious, but I liken this thinking to never saying anything of any importance on the phone for fear it might be tapped, or being afraid to visit sites like this because they are monitored. You have to keep your guard up, but at some point the paranoia becomes self-defeating.

I know when I've talked with people who genuinely seemed interested in these subjects and given them information to follow up on, I could probably count on one hand the people who have gotten back to me having looked into it on their own accord. It seems to be true in the vast majority of cases: if people were meant to discover this information and rapidly increase their development in this time frame, they would have found it on their own already and started. Looking at the state of the world today, how can you not know something is terribly wrong?! If you've made the decision to ignore it or be satisfied with incomplete answers, you've basically had your chance.
 
Gonzo said:
Ekios said:
Gonzo said:
Ekios said:
Damn it, I have people I care so much about who are getting angry because I show them a few "glitch" of reality, people who blamed me because, and I quote them "I don't want to see that or hear it, I don't want to know, leave it away from my hears or eyes"
Perhaps they were angry because you violated their free will and learning path, forcing upon them what you felt was best for them.

One of the most difficult lessons for us is to avoid deciding for others what they should know or do. This problem epitomizes our self importance, where we actually believe we know what's best for others, when in reality, most of us don't even know what's best for ourselves.
Worst part is : they asked me. I read that a lot, to not "tell people until they ask" and that is what I did lately. I'm not even seeking to tell anything to anyone since I consider myself like a young learner who probably didn't understand 1% about the whole thing.
I stand corrected. It's very hard for someone to know when another person is truly asking, since they don't know what the answer will be and how they might react to it.
Gonzo

I want to say how important the bolded part of Gonzo's statement is above. Knowing what is really being asked for. Just because someone says they want to know something does not always mean that they really want to know what you know. Mostly because they really are not ready to know what you know. Most people are not ready for it even when they seem to be asking. What they really want to be told is what they already know and you just confirm it.

Learning about strategic enclosure and external consideration are very important, as anart said.

As happened to Average Joe with his wife, all she did was get upset, so in these cases it would be better to read this kind of thing when she is not around. Or play a role and not let your emotions show so easily.

It is important to take into consideration the other person that you are interacting with.
 
Average Joe said:
There are also a lot of energy vampires out there who love to feed in crowds. There is a friend of my wife who I think of as the black hole. Just getting near her one has the feeling of getting drained. She's a very nice person but I avoid her like the plague.

It's good when you can avoid someone like that. When it's impossible to avoid 'energy vampires', there are ways to "go on the offensive" figuratively speaking. You might consider studying how this person 'presents' if only in energetic terms. Look at the situation as a scientific experiment. Assume, as an experiment, that she would like to be interacted with the way she interacts with you. Engage her actively and then excuse yourself from the interaction as quickly as possible. You might think up a reason ahead of time. Reflect on the whole situation later when it's safer to do so. This is just one possibility and there may be better ones.

Average Joe said:
It's also very difficult for me to calm my overactive mind down. It's like trying to stop a stampede.

Well, if that's a way of describing my personal experience, I'd say that a mind that active is attached to a person who would do well if he keeps busy doing something, as lame as that might sound.

Average Joe said:
I was a little moody and quiet yesterday, thinking about some of the material I read in the Wave. Wife was sure that something was "wrong" and started trying to pry it out of me. I told her that it was nothing, just some stuff I was thinking about. She's like a pitbull when she wants to get something out of me, so she wouldn't let it go.
I eventually relented and told her I was seeing the world in a different light, and trying to process it. I don't usually discuss material like this with her because she doesn't want to hear about it. She likes her own world view just the way it is.
Her reaction was typically negative, even though I kept the subject matter very general and philosophical. "You shouldn't read that stuff because it always make you depressed", which isn't true, but that's how she views it. All I could see was the gulf between us widening even further.

Do you see what you did here? What was the exact subject you were reading about and what were the references? Instead of being "very general and philosophical", you could have been very specific in a way that invited your wife to offer information on the subject that she might be aware of. You don't have to keep a learning activity secret, just know exactly what it is you are "just checking out" at any given moment. Most anyone would love to feel included in some "grave matter" that seems to occupy you if they thought they could offer some input.

Average Joe said:
Our paths have been divergent for some time now. I just wonder how far is too far. I feel like I'm getting close to the point of no return, and it's very confusing.
I can't go back because that would be spiritual death for me. I want what's best for the family, but I'm having a hard time reconciling my own need for personal growth with that of a stable relationship. I want to travel down the path of life with someone who shares my interests, but the choice I made many years ago precludes this option.
I'm at a crossroad and trying desperately to ignore it. Nothing seems clear or definite. Do I fall back into comfort and familiarity, or do I press on. I know I need to press on but...

Here is where your faith in the Work and in DCM can come into play. Once you realize the obligation you previously formed was made in a "state of being" that has now changed and is continuing to change, your Work takes on a particular character.

I would describe it as a need to use the relationship in a way that continues to fill necessary needs all around while learning as much about yourself through your wife's eyes and from the view of 'self as relationship-entity' as is possible. IOW, you wouldn't rip out your heart so that your head could continue your journey until you're absolutely certain its the thing to do, would you?

Leave all possibilities open while strengthening your determination to keep learning how to see reality as it is. If you allow "nature" to take its course you will probably know, in no uncertain terms, when it becomes time to fork off.

These are just my thoughts based on my experiences. In some final analysis they may not benefit you at all, so FWIW.
 
Thanks for your thoughtful comments Buddy. Life never turns out the way you think it will. When we're young and stupid we make major choices which will effect us for the rest of our lives. Then we grow up and wonder what the hell happened.
Being married and raising a family has been difficult for me. I had no idea what I was getting into, but I did the best I could. We raised four kids and have gotten three through college so far. Nevertheless, I constantly fight the feeling of being trapped. It's not that I don't want to provide for my family, I'm just tired of the grind.
I spent 32 years at my former job, then got replaced with cheaper labor. It was a year and a half before I found other work, but that time off was golden. That little taste of relative liberation still gnaws at me.
The comfortable little prison we build for ourselves comes at a steep price. It's a prison where the door is always open, but it's not so easy to walk out. Freedom is always whispering sweet promises when we're most vulnerable, but duty and responsibility drag us back to the grindstone. The battle never ends.
The process of discovering the truth about this world is like having a long, wonderful dream about living in a palace, only to wake up in a whorehouse in Tijuana. Once you get over the shock, you start to get that panicky feeling in your gut and wonder "How the hell did I wind up here, and how do I get out?"
That's kind of where I am now.
 
Average Joe said:
The comfortable little prison we build for ourselves comes at a steep price. It's a prison where the door is always open, but it's not so easy to walk out. Freedom is always whispering sweet promises when we're most vulnerable, but duty and responsibility drag us back to the grindstone. The battle never ends.
The process of discovering the truth about this world is like having a long, wonderful dream about living in a palace, only to wake up in a whorehouse in Tijuana. Once you get over the shock, you start to get that panicky feeling in your gut and wonder "How the hell did I wind up here, and how do I get out?"
That's kind of where I am now.

I think you have described our situation very clearly, I had a good laugh at that. You only forgot to mention that all the doors of said whorehouse are guarded by scary lizards, and the interior forms a maze of coridoors, false walls and trap doors. Not to mention all the women of the house waiting round every corner to tempt us! Oh and you're badly wounded, and partly blind.

So it is quite clear that the only way out, as you doubtless see by now, is growth of knowledge (in Gaelic: Éiriú Eolas), in order to heal your wounds, and deal with all these traps. After a month or two of reading, networking, practicing EE, and trying to apply 4th way concepts, you will likely see your situation a little (or a lot) more clearly, and have a better idea of how to proceed.

You've been given so many great replies here, with lots of advice. If you haven't already, I suggest reading over the thread again to let it sink in a little more. Good luck, and try to remember to breathe deeply and keep your sense of humour, they are some of our best defences for all the BS that life throws at us.
 
You only forgot to mention that all the doors of said whorehouse are guarded by scary lizards, and the interior forms a maze of corridors, false walls and trap doors. Not to mention all the women of the house waiting round every corner to tempt us! Oh and you're badly wounded, and partly blind.
Aint that the truth!
You're right, there has been a lot of good advice offered and I'm taking it to heart. However, I find writing to be clarifying and cathartic. I have so many thoughts and emotions whirling around in my head that it helps to sort them out by writing it down.
I'm sure these things are nothing new to the old salts here, but it's all part of the process. I thought I was fairly awake before I ever started to read this material, but I see I still have a lot of work to do.
Anyway, thanks for lending an ear because it has truly helped.
 
Average Joe said:
You only forgot to mention that all the doors of said whorehouse are guarded by scary lizards, and the interior forms a maze of corridors, false walls and trap doors. Not to mention all the women of the house waiting round every corner to tempt us! Oh and you're badly wounded, and partly blind.
Aint that the truth!
You're right, there has been a lot of good advice offered and I'm taking it to heart. However, I find writing to be clarifying and cathartic. I have so many thoughts and emotions whirling around in my head that it helps to sort them out by writing it down.
I'm sure these things are nothing new to the old salts here, but it's all part of the process. I thought I was fairly awake before I ever started to read this material, but I see I still have a lot of work to do.
Anyway, thanks for lending an ear because it has truly helped.

I'm just curious. Have you ever read In Search of the Miraculous by Ouspensky? Apologies if you have mentioned this before.
 
I'm just curious. Have you ever read In Search of the Miraculous by Ouspensky? Apologies if you have mentioned this before.
Funny you mentioned that, I just received a copy in the mail yesterday. :)
 
On the subject of sharing with other people in our lives, what, and how much, or trying to discern when the other person is really asking or not, I found that getting myself out of the equation and focusing my attention on the other person, helps to a great extent (the action of external considering). Like Buddy says, this too can be taken as an experiment with a good dose of curiosity and our needs (to share what we know, feel above the other person because of what we know, be in a teacher mode or enhance our ego because we feel we know something that others don't, etc) out of the way.

I remember once I was much younger and babysitting a few days-old baby. I love babies, and I knew how to feed him, help him burb and change him, so all was well until he suddenly started crying uncontrollably! I was holding and rocking him, but it made no difference, and he was crying so hard that it pained me that I didn't know how to help him out of his misery and he could not tell me what was wrong. Then it occurred to me to place him on a bed and watch him, just observe what was going on with him. He could not tell me in words how he felt, but his crying and bodily movements were his way of communicating his frustrations with me, and by observing his little face distortions and his body language, I realized that he was experiencing pain from the abdominal area. Once I figured that out, I remember his mother saying something about colitis pains and anise tea, which I gave him, but I also though: me, as an adult, what do I do when my belly hurts? I then put my hand on his belly and started a very gentled-pressured massage with singing in soothing voice. It worked! He not only stopped crying, soon he fell asleep. And I felt so good about myself for finding the solution through "listening" to him :)

I think of this situation quite often nowadays, because I think the people we communicate with (whether those close to us or strangers in social or work situations) are like that baby: unable to exactly tell what is going on inside of them (just like most of us most of the time, really!) but by observing their body postures and facial expressions, we can tell where they are at. I'll take the situation with Ekio and his wife as an example (I hope you don't mind, Ekio):

So Ekio's wife saw Ekio reading something on the internet and from his facial expressions she was curious to know what was he was reading. Ekio shared with her, and then she asked another question and another and another, with Ekio getting excited to hear his wife's interest and answering each question. When Ekio later told her of another story he was reading similar to the original his wife asked about, his wife gets mad and attacks. It might sound like a crazy, unpredictable behavior from her part to Ekios at this point, but what actually happened is that Ekios missed to actually "listen" to his wife, in all ways. Because she might have not said it in words, but her reaction to the news she was getting must have been there all along: tension in her body, a certain face expression of fear or doubt or distrust, a certain display of body language that showed she was threatened, or any other. Ekios missed all that because he was all in his head feeling excited that his wife seemed to be getting interested in the things he is (internal considering mixed with wishful thinking), and was taken aback at her subsequent reaction. If Ekios was observant of all his wife's non-verbal communications, he might have stopped the conversation earlier, or not share the second zombie story at all, or even ask his wife: "sweetheart, you seem a bit (tense, scared, angry, threatened). What's going on?" HE might have even sat her next to him and held her in his arms while saying, "I know, it's a crazy world out there, isn't it?" or words that validate her experience, sharing that he himself feels scared sometimes of what goes out there perhaps, and making her feel that this experience of thread brings them closer together than apart. Next time he knows better than to share such stories with her. If she asks again, again he will have to asses the situation by "listening to her" and then decide how to proceed in his answer, taking her internal state into account.

PS: Again, to clarify, the above story is used as an illustration for an example and I, in no way, claim to have known what actually took place. Kinda like: based loosely on such and such story, like they do in the movies.
 
Alana said:
On the subject of sharing with other people in our lives, what, and how much, or trying to discern when the other person is really asking or not, I found that getting myself out of the equation and focusing my attention on the other person, helps to a great extent (the action of external considering). Like Buddy says, this too can be taken as an experiment with a good dose of curiosity and our needs (to share what we know, feel above the other person because of what we know, be in a teacher mode or enhance our ego because we feel we know something that others don't, etc) out of the way.
200% true :)
Without any doubt my (big) ego was thrilled that she got interested in what I am interested too. I got clearly that I don't have to play the role of a teacher, or any role at all until I didn't take back a bit of control of my own self. I'm probably on some "auto run emotional mode" and before I didn't stop that I'd rather stay quite on every levels :)

Alana said:
I think of this situation quite often nowadays, because I think the people we communicate with (whether those close to us or strangers in social or work situations) are like that baby: unable to exactly tell what is going on inside of them (just like most of us most of the time, really!) but by observing their body postures and facial expressions, we can tell where they are at. I'll take the situation with Ekio and his wife as an example (I hope you don't mind, Ekio):
Not at all, the ego is happy as you can imagine :halo: ;)


Alana said:
So Ekio's wife saw Ekio reading something on the internet and from his facial expressions she was curious to know what was he was reading. Ekio shared with her, and then she asked another question and another and another, with Ekio getting excited to hear his wife's interest and answering each question. When Ekio later told her of another story he was reading similar to the original his wife asked about, his wife gets mad and attacks. It might sound like a crazy, unpredictable behavior from her part to Ekios at this point, but what actually happened is that Ekios missed to actually "listen" to his wife, in all ways. Because she might have not said it in words, but her reaction to the news she was getting must have been there all along: tension in her body, a certain face expression of fear or doubt or distrust, a certain display of body language that showed she was threatened, or any other. Ekios missed all that because he was all in his head feeling excited that his wife seemed to be getting interested in the things he is (internal considering mixed with wishful thinking), and was taken aback at her subsequent reaction. If Ekios was observant of all his wife's non-verbal communications, he might have stopped the conversation earlier, or not share the second zombie story at all, or even ask his wife: "sweetheart, you seem a bit (tense, scared, angry, threatened). What's going on?" HE might have even sat her next to him and held her in his arms while saying, "I know, it's a crazy world out there, isn't it?" or words that validate her experience, sharing that he himself feels scared sometimes of what goes out there perhaps, and making her feel that this experience of thread brings them closer together than apart. Next time he knows better than to share such stories with her. If she asks again, again he will have to asses the situation by "listening to her" and then decide how to proceed in his answer, taking her internal state into account.
Nothing to add, indeed my mistake at that moment was the fact that I was talking to her while searching the news/answers to her questions, without looking at her enough. I was more focused on what was ask than the "asker", I wasn't really looking at her but at my screen, and as you said, it is the opposite to do if we don't want a "Boom !" situation :)
 
Average Joe said:
I'm just curious. Have you ever read In Search of the Miraculous by Ouspensky? Apologies if you have mentioned this before.
Funny you mentioned that, I just received a copy in the mail yesterday. :)

That's great. I think you will find quite a bit to ponder in that book. And some "aha" moments. :)
 
Average Joe said:
I'm new here, and please pardon my relative ignorance, but is there an ETA for the wave? Judging by the material the C's provided, it should be fairly soon.
Judging from what I've read it should be THIS year.
 
Hi Michael Brown,
Welcome to the forum. We encourage new members to post a short introduction about themselves, how they found the forum etc in the newbies board . You can take a look at some threads in that board to see how others have done it.
 
Michael Brown said:
Average Joe said:
I'm new here, and please pardon my relative ignorance, but is there an ETA for the wave? Judging by the material the C's provided, it should be fairly soon.
Judging from what I've read it should be THIS year.

Can you share with us what you've read?
 
anart said:
Michael Brown said:
Average Joe said:
I'm new here, and please pardon my relative ignorance, but is there an ETA for the wave? Judging by the material the C's provided, it should be fairly soon.
Judging from what I've read it should be THIS year.

Can you share with us what you've read?
http://cassiopaea.org/2010/05/08/the-wave-chapter-1-riding-the-wave/
The C's say in the first chapter (from 1994) about the Realm Border which is what the Wave.

A: Close. Still indefinite, as you measure time. Lizzies hoping to rule you in fourth density. Closer to 18 years.

And now in the latest transcript they have mention new year coming and seem to be very exciting about something. Could this be the approaching wave?

A: Joy to the World!

Q: (L) And who do we have with us this evening?

A: Eionjoya

Q: (L) And where do you transmit through or from?

A: New year coming!

Q: (L) Where do you transmit through?

A: Cassiopaea

Q: (L) You seem to be a little bit excited about something.

A: We are!

Q: (L) What are you excited about?

A: Peace will come!
 
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