Female Psychopathy

truth seeker

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Chrissy said:
truth seeker said:
I've been thinking that female psychopaths might be a bit more difficult to spot due to the possibility that their behaviors fall within the spectrum of what's considered socially acceptable for women. Behaviors such as eliciting pity can easily mask as wounding to the average person because we are programmed to view women as weak, submissive, etc.
I was thinking this as well, Truth Seeker. Also, I could never quite understand all the hype around a woman's monthly cycle. It seems to me, we are programmed to accept that once a month, a woman has the right to be irritable and display bad behavior all do to her hormones.
Yeah, I don't mind the once a month thing (which for many could be alleviated by change in diet), but if someone's in that state all day, every day, it can be a bit much to take! :)

I've been doing some research on this and a good deal of it involves people who've been incarcerated. Perhaps this is because the science community finds a bit easier to gather larger groups of these types of individuals to do their research on. I think that, unfortunately, as with male psychopaths, the harm done covertly in families and smaller groups is way more prevalent and destructive even.

I mean, how many of us know someone from work, school or our own families that fit or have many of these characteristics yet write it off as the person 'just' being nasty? If this is something that is so ingrained in us to file under women just being women, can we really know just what percentage of them really exist? Perhaps there are as many females as males or worse yet, more of them but because of our programming that says women are nurturing and caring, have difficulty accepting the possibility that all is not what it seems? Maybe psychopathic women are the more dangerous of the species like the black widow spider. I could be completely off in this, but am just throwing out some possible food for thought.
 

H-KQGE

Dagobah Resident
truth seeker said:
Chrissy said:
truth seeker said:
I've been thinking that female psychopaths might be a bit more difficult to spot due to the possibility that their behaviors fall within the spectrum of what's considered socially acceptable for women. Behaviors such as eliciting pity can easily mask as wounding to the average person because we are programmed to view women as weak, submissive, etc.
I was thinking this as well, Truth Seeker. Also, I could never quite understand all the hype around a woman's monthly cycle. It seems to me, we are programmed to accept that once a month, a woman has the right to be irritable and display bad behavior all do to her hormones.
Yeah, I don't mind the once a month thing (which for many could be alleviated by change in diet), but if someone's in that state all day, every day, it can be a bit much to take! :)

I've been doing some research on this and a good deal of it involves people who've been incarcerated. Perhaps this is because the science community finds a bit easier to gather larger groups of these types of individuals to do their research on. I think that, unfortunately, as with male psychopaths, the harm done covertly in families and smaller groups is way more prevalent and destructive even.

I mean, how many of us know someone from work, school or our own families that fit or have many of these characteristics yet write it off as the person 'just' being nasty? If this is something that is so ingrained in us to file under women just being women, can we really know just what percentage of them really exist? Perhaps there are as many females as males or worse yet, more of them but because of our programming that says women are nurturing and caring, have difficulty accepting the possibility that all is not what it seems? Maybe psychopathic women are the more dangerous of the species like the black widow spider. I could be completely off in this, but am just throwing out some possible food for thought.
Hello truth seeker, & hello Chrissy. I think that it's safe to say that for those who are unaware, who are reluctant to read (especially on the most difficult issues in their lives) anything other than newspapers or glossy magazines, will build shaky foundations at best, utilizing false knowledge thus leading to a lack of discernment about what a normal woman should be. Even those that are more critically minded are likely to fall into this "society trap" where it has always been "a man's world" & now, we must make amends... in all the ways that society has told us in recent times. For those who are aware, do read (the right material) & keep at it, female psychopaths aren't going to be that hard to spot; the data on male psychopaths (including prison populations) & arguably corporate psychopaths (as one entrance into low-level psychopaths in families) helps greatly.

Since the forum explores as many facets of the human psyche as possible, vast knowledge & insight is gained on the minds of "the other" & since we've all experienced variants within psychopathology & psychopathy, female variants I feel, will have no place to comfortably nor adequately hide. Normally functioning minds within both genders have been raised & conditioned within a limited set of norms in most cultures to expect certain behaviours, which aids pathological types & continues to actively erode the capacities to believe, assess, sense & accept what is, & what is not natural or normal. The only real problems that I can see hinge on determining who fits the variants within psychopathology & psychopathy.

If we go through all the books on both sciences individually & collectively there will be contentious points (stemming from different professionals who themselves, seem to get caught-out on the very points they raise) that can possibly muddy the waters, though to a limited extent. Here, we can tell who is in the category of psychopathology & who is in the category of psychopathy, but greater info/data is required to accurately see "who fits the bill" in psychopathy. Fortunately we have data & facts on overlaps (traits) which is as good as its going to get, in my mind.

Ever since I heard that female psychopaths are more dangerous (I swear that was the C's, & it was all so said that there were fewer?) I've been reassessing my understanding of "the feminine model". These were, mainly for me, the feature stereotypes - eliciting pity, shyness, weakness - & how to reconcile what & how I felt about the things I had seen & continue to see in my personal & greater environment.

The unrelenting bitchy-ness (especially in small groups) was another puzzler which easily meshed with so-called gossip (not to be confused with the airing out of problems & cathartic group dynamics that encourages bonding & exposes unacceptable behaviours) & other things that in some quarters would be frowned upon if spoken aloud. Anytime the age-old (mainly western oriented though evolved elsewhere) "feminine model" has appeared on television or in movies I would fluctuate between frustration & annoyance at the "damsel in distress" or "princess" (alternatively "daddy's little girl") & then fall back into guilt, & doubt as if it were wrong to question how females are portrayed, pretty much across the board.

Even before finding Laura & the forum, I had these thoughts & (fleetingly) feelings about how young girls especially, were growing up (back in the 90's) & with the arrival of internet pornography (I'm talking about extreme promiscuity that led the way from several places in our western culture) & ASBO'S in the UK (Anti-Social Behavioural Order) I was simply stunned how young girls & women, were acting worse than their male counterparts. I mean girl gangs numbering in the 20's-plus, kicking, punching, stamping people to death etc? And some insisting that they were "ladies" as well? Yeah we've got huge problems with pathological females for sure, determining how many (a very educated guess or two) of them are psychopaths seems highly problematic. Plenty of them are/look severely ponerized/character disturbed.

You're not alone in that line of thinking, fwiw, I definitely think that female psychopaths are more dangerous, there's a "psychological-affect sheath" surrounding them which probably won't be revealed under the current system of civilization/culture. If people can't even see what ails them in their diet (or entertain other possibilities) or the wide-scale evil that should be fought tooth-and-nail in unison, (western pathocracy & Zionist psychopathic Israel) how are they going to see some females as possibly "something other?"

Added: wording.
 

Laura

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FOTCM Member
This video isn't about female psychopaths, or even necessarily psychopaths, BUT there is a segment starting about 12 or13 minutes in, about a guy who murders his wife, kids, second wife, third wife and is married to his fourth wife who he intends to kill as well, that is just unbelievable and portrays the mind of the narcissistic psychopath so well. I think it may very well apply to female psychopaths too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1r0viWd5Fk
 

SMM

The Living Force
H-kqge said:
truth seeker said:
Chrissy said:
truth seeker said:
I've been thinking that female psychopaths might be a bit more difficult to spot due to the possibility that their behaviors fall within the spectrum of what's considered socially acceptable for women. Behaviors such as eliciting pity can easily mask as wounding to the average person because we are programmed to view women as weak, submissive, etc.
I was thinking this as well, Truth Seeker. Also, I could never quite understand all the hype around a woman's monthly cycle. It seems to me, we are programmed to accept that once a month, a woman has the right to be irritable and display bad behavior all do to her hormones.
Yeah, I don't mind the once a month thing (which for many could be alleviated by change in diet), but if someone's in that state all day, every day, it can be a bit much to take! :)

I've been doing some research on this and a good deal of it involves people who've been incarcerated. Perhaps this is because the science community finds a bit easier to gather larger groups of these types of individuals to do their research on. I think that, unfortunately, as with male psychopaths, the harm done covertly in families and smaller groups is way more prevalent and destructive even.

I mean, how many of us know someone from work, school or our own families that fit or have many of these characteristics yet write it off as the person 'just' being nasty? If this is something that is so ingrained in us to file under women just being women, can we really know just what percentage of them really exist? Perhaps there are as many females as males or worse yet, more of them but because of our programming that says women are nurturing and caring, have difficulty accepting the possibility that all is not what it seems? Maybe psychopathic women are the more dangerous of the species like the black widow spider. I could be completely off in this, but am just throwing out some possible food for thought.
Hello truth seeker, & hello Chrissy. I think that it's safe to say that for those who are unaware, who are reluctant to read (especially on the most difficult issues in their lives) anything other than newspapers or glossy magazines, will build shaky foundations at best, utilizing false knowledge thus leading to a lack of discernment about what a normal woman should be. Even those that are more critically minded are likely to fall into this "society trap" where it has always been "a man's world" & now, we must make amends... in all the ways that society has told us in recent times. For those who are aware, do read (the right material) & keep at it, female psychopaths aren't going to be that hard to spot; the data on male psychopaths (including prison populations) & arguably corporate psychopaths (as one entrance into low-level psychopaths in families) helps greatly.

Since the forum explores as many facets of the human psyche as possible, vast knowledge & insight is gained on the minds of "the other" & since we've all experienced variants within psychopathology & psychopathy, female variants I feel, will have no place to comfortably nor adequately hide. Normally functioning minds within both genders have been raised & conditioned within a limited set of norms in most cultures to expect certain behaviours, which aids pathological types & continues to actively erode the capacities to believe, assess, sense & accept what is, & what is not natural or normal. The only real problems that I can see hinge on determining who fits the variants within psychopathology & psychopathy.

If we go through all the books on both sciences individually & collectively there will be contentious points (stemming from different professionals who themselves, seem to get caught-out on the very points they raise) that can possibly muddy the waters, though to a limited extent. Here, we can tell who is in the category of psychopathology & who is in the category of psychopathy, but greater info/data is required to accurately see "who fits the bill" in psychopathy. Fortunately we have data & facts on overlaps (traits) which is as good as its going to get, in my mind.

Ever since I heard that female psychopaths are more dangerous (I swear that was the C's, & it was all so said that there were fewer?) I've been reassessing my understanding of "the feminine model". These were, mainly for me, the feature stereotypes - eliciting pity, shyness, weakness - & how to reconcile what & how I felt about the things I had seen & continue to see in my personal & greater environment.

The unrelenting bitchy-ness (especially in small groups) was another puzzler which easily meshed with so-called gossip (not to be confused with the airing out of problems & cathartic group dynamics that encourages bonding & exposes unacceptable behaviours) & other things that in some quarters would be frowned upon if spoken aloud. Anytime the age-old (mainly western oriented though evolved elsewhere) "feminine model" has appeared on television or in movies I would fluctuate between frustration & annoyance at the "damsel in distress" or "princess" (alternatively "daddy's little girl") & then fall back into guilt, & doubt as if it were wrong to question how females are portrayed, pretty much across the board.

Even before finding Laura & the forum, I had these thoughts & (fleetingly) feelings about how young girls especially, were growing up (back in the 90's) & with the arrival of internet pornography (I'm talking about extreme promiscuity that led the way from several places in our western culture) & ASBO'S in the UK (Anti-Social Behavioural Order) I was simply stunned how young girls & women, were acting worse than their male counterparts. I mean girl gangs numbering in the 20's-plus, kicking, punching, stamping people to death etc? And some insisting that they were "ladies" as well? Yeah we've got huge problems with pathological females for sure, determining how many (a very educated guess or two) of them are psychopaths seems highly problematic. Plenty of them are/look severely ponerized/character disturbed.

You're not alone in that line of thinking, fwiw, I definitely think that female psychopaths are more dangerous, there's a "psychological-affect sheath" surrounding them which probably won't be revealed under the current system of civilization/culture. If people can't even see what ails them in their diet (or entertain other possibilities) or the wide-scale evil that should be fought tooth-and-nail in unison, (western pathocracy & Zionist psychopathic Israel) how are they going to see some females as possibly "something other?"

Added: wording.
I definitely think female psychopaths and psychopathology is more dangerous because of societal conditioning, traits associated to women and pressures to be a certain way. Particularly considering impacts in group and familial dynamics. It is very easy to deny, misinterpret or rationalise words and actions to fit with what we want to believe and assure ourselves that all is right with the world, even easier when knowledge of the human psyche is lacking. I think it makes us uncomfortable to think the feminine has an insidious face and counterpart, there is enough evil in a pathocratic society. Before gender equality battles were propagated and women's rights were reinforced, pigeonholing women wasn't considered unfair generally as society's perception of feminine and nurturing qualities wasn't ruffled osit.

However since the norms haven't changed but roles have, not to mention the impact on generations, female psychopaths have more masks to don than what can be readily conceived or successfully pulled off than their male counterparts. To use the book Unholy Hungers as an example, although a masculine/feminine vampire doesn't exclusively apply to a man or woman respectively, I think it is harder to detect what dynamic plays in women than men. Why this is so, there are many possibilites and I don't know which one if any outweighs the other, but I think that projection of our vulnerabilities onto the feminine plays a part.
 

Aoide

Jedi
I mean, how many of us know someone from work, school or our own families that fit or have many of these characteristics yet write it off as the person 'just' being nasty?
I know one person, in my environment, that has many traits of a female psychopath.

When our group of friends (in that period) met her a few years ago, she was pleasant, always with a smile on her face and a gentle person. So we begun to socialize with her more often. From the beginning we felt that she needs care from us, because she told us that she hates her mother for leaving her family (father, little brother, sister and her) and we perceived it like she was deeply hurt. This went on for some time, but soon we were getting a bit tired of all her stories how she is having a difficult life, it was all she talked about. She said to girls in our group that she likes one of the guys who was also from our group. This guy was the best friend of my husband (boyfriend in that time), so I used this opportunity via my boyfriend to check the situation and the situation ended up that they, after some time, ended up together in a relationship. We thought that by doing this, she will be again smiling and happy like in the beginning.

Oh boy, how were we wrong! Soon, she started to dramatize about every aspect of her life. Firstly, she was annoyed about some members of our group and talked about it when those persons were not there with us. Also, she was constantly afraid that her new partner will leave her, while we were assuring her that there is no reason for such thing to happen, he liked her. He proved her that with inviting her to live together at his parents house. After month or two of living together, she told me that she's afraid that his parents will kick her out of their house because they don't like her and she was waiting, every day, her partner' arrival from his (hard physical) work with intentional tears in her eyes. I asked her why she's doing such a thing and she said - To assure him in my fear. :O I thought to myself that she has a real psychological problem.

Soon, her partner was banned, by her, to go out with his friends without her, to have a drink by his choice, only what she let him drink by her choice. She dramatized if he would look at other girls (in a sense of ordinary talking with other females). He was also banned from smoking cigarettes. Her little brother once had a meningitis, so a week later she said that she has it also and ended up in a hospital. After all exams they couldn't find anything wrong with her health, so they released her. All that week she spent there in a hospital, many friends came to see her and every time she was complaining how staff is treating her badly, the food is bad, there are only old people in her room which is terrible, etc.

After some time, something happened that opened my eyes wider. One evening, while I was sad and worried, I told her that my brother jumped, in a very drunk state, through 2nd floor window (some 5 meters high) and in that moment she started to laugh so hard that I was in such a shock that it seemed that her laugh went on for eternity! After she calmed down from laughing she said: Sorry, what happened with him?

After that point, I didn't want to have anything with such a person. For some time, her partner and mine (former best friends) were not allowed to hang together by her choice again, so we decided that that's it, no more pity for her so we finished with her. All our group of friends, with time, saw that she is a nasty person and they were also confused by her sudden change of behavior.

And that is the problem. All of them are seeing her as "just" nasty. I mean, she never showed any sincere caring for others, only for herself. It was always about her and how she is poor, suffering being.
I didn't know back then about psychopaths of that nature, who were not serial killers, rapists, etc., so she was just nasty for me too. But now, after what happened with Lisa and research that followed about female psychopathy, me and my husband immediately remembered where did we saw that kind of behavior before.
 

Laura

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Aoide said:
And that is the problem. All of them are seeing her as "just" nasty. I mean, she never showed any sincere caring for others, only for herself. It was always about her and how she is poor, suffering being.
I didn't know back then about psychopaths of that nature, who were not serial killers, rapists, etc., so she was just nasty for me too. But now, after what happened with Lisa and research that followed about female psychopathy, me and my husband immediately remembered where did we saw that kind of behavior before.
Thanks for that story. It sure does seem to fit the profile that is described in the literature. Who would have ever thought that the female psychopath would be so dramatically different? And have such a range of behaviors and milieus etc? We sure were on the wrong track trying to understand them in terms of male psychopaths.

I remember reading a paper a few years ago where the authors were saying that they thought that Borderline Personality Disorder was simply the female version of psychopathy. Very often, BPD is diagnosed as/or comorbid with "Complex PTSD." But I guess that a not-very bright psychopath who has learned that faking emotional states gets them what they want, might very well act like they have PTSD a lot of the time, and then, just turn it off when it is no longer needed.
 

l apprenti de forgeron

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
This video isn't about female psychopaths, or even necessarily psychopaths, BUT there is a segment starting about 12 or13 minutes in, about a guy who murders his wife, kids, second wife, third wife and is married to his fourth wife who he intends to kill as well, that is just unbelievable and portrays the mind of the narcissistic psychopath so well. I think it may very well apply to female psychopaths too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1r0viWd5Fk
Very interesting. Nice to see how psychopaths are captured by his own ego. If you are "celebrating" their miserable and manipulation activities, the psychos fully inflate their egos and self-proclaimed as the best criminal. So, if they feel admired, then they are lost by his tongue! For them be something like confirm that they are feudal lords and all others stupid vassals, who owe allegiance.

And thanks for sharing, Aoide. Such victimization it's unhealthy and draining for others. And worse, from an animal and annoying ego, always self-referential that can not look outside never, not even a inch.
Extreme victimization as a weapon to get "profit" is a lot like the one written by rabbis, that about "the only people who was born into slavery in history, and throughout its history the others never understood and treated badly". Feel special on a dark light, but to follow up feeling special and get what you want. One way to divide-conquer peoples for millennia.
 

Bluefyre

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
This topic has helped deepen my own understanding and thank you.

I've been convinced for a while that my mother was/is a psychopath, but I still kept making excuses for her, that she was just mentally ill. Well, in a sense she is.

In particular, a better understanding of how the female version manifests, as I think about it, her impression management seemed to be the overriding force along with callous disregard and lack of empathy. I think she would have liked to abandon us and did to a certain extent, disappearing for a week or two at a time when I was 13 or 14, leaving me to look after my younger sisters with no idea when she would return. I felt fear being responsible at such a young age and at the same time relief because she seemed to disappear with her pedophile boyfriend, so at least we had a break from being molested.

I used to notice how she'd flirt with men inappropriately and used to wonder doesn't she realize how easy it is to see through her and who would be interested in her anyway. I think the impression management kept her from being more promiscuous. And also latching onto a pedophile probably made him much easier to control, but also increased her pathological hatred of us girls because he was more interested in us than her, being what he was.

And also interesting that she was initially heavily into the fundie church but then seemed to lose interest, perhaps because rather than being able to manipulate with her pity ploys, they just looked down on her. Very hierarchical, those fundies. It's who gives the most to the church that has the most prestige. Since we were on welfare, she was not a very lucrative contributor. You spend your life believing that you are just unlovable because the psycho who birthed you just isn't capable of loving anyone or anything. It's really amazing. They are so good at the impression management that no one would believe you, if you dared to talk about it!
 

SMM

The Living Force
Bluefyre said:
This topic has helped deepen my own understanding and thank you.

I've been convinced for a while that my mother was/is a psychopath, but I still kept making excuses for her, that she was just mentally ill. Well, in a sense she is.

In particular, a better understanding of how the female version manifests, as I think about it, her impression management seemed to be the overriding force along with callous disregard and lack of empathy. I think she would have liked to abandon us and did to a certain extent, disappearing for a week or two at a time when I was 13 or 14, leaving me to look after my younger sisters with no idea when she would return. I felt fear being responsible at such a young age and at the same time relief because she seemed to disappear with her pedophile boyfriend, so at least we had a break from being molested.

I used to notice how she'd flirt with men inappropriately and used to wonder doesn't she realize how easy it is to see through her and who would be interested in her anyway. I think the impression management kept her from being more promiscuous. And also latching onto a pedophile probably made him much easier to control, but also increased her pathological hatred of us girls because he was more interested in us than her, being what he was.

And also interesting that she was initially heavily into the fundie church but then seemed to lose interest, perhaps because rather than being able to manipulate with her pity ploys, they just looked down on her. Very hierarchical, those fundies. It's who gives the most to the church that has the most prestige. Since we were on welfare, she was not a very lucrative contributor. You spend your life believing that you are just unlovable because the psycho who birthed you just isn't capable of loving anyone or anything. It's really amazing. They are so good at the impression management that no one would believe you, if you dared to talk about it!
What you have written above describes my mother and the effects of her impression management to a T, and what I bolded above is how I feel. I still struggle with a sense of being unlovable or unworthy of support. I made excuses for her for years, even when my instincts threatened to kick my teeth in for fearing to listen.

She never left us physically as a fundamentalist attachment to the church and not wanting to be perceived as a "bad mother/wife", or rather needing to be perceived as the "Wonder Woman" of mothers - part and parcel of impression management - did not fit in with the idea of leaving. What is worse, she has never had a bond to any of her children so the relief in our experience came as a result of being physically distant from her.

Worse yet, the mask she wears in public and behaviour she engages in around other people is frightening in contrast to the twisting of stories she undertakes to centralize herself. Over time you start to think this woman must take delight in playing victim. However behind closed doors she is unusually aggressive and forceful - a very Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde switch takes place.

Her cultural background and upbringing limited her imagination for what she could have gotten away with. My sister and I were discussing her recent behaviour and realised that over the years she has altered her more ineffective impression management approaches by imitating women from different cultures to test what could forward her agendas, such as when people suggested something then took action to mitigate negative impacts, she would try those suggestions on them. Perhaps her imagination is lacking as has been synonymous with Cluster B personality disorders/psychopathy?

She engaged in "gaslighting" so frequently with such self-assurance and zero intent to modify her circumstances, expecting others to do the work for her or pity parties over how she does everything - using guilt, blame and manipulation as a ruse. My sister and I developed codependency traits, feeling responsible for the needs and reactions of others. We pretty much raised our younger siblings, aside from providing a roof over their heads, and we lived with her intermittently in childhood so in those respects she did escape responsibility.

She is causing a stir between my father and herself because who she really is is coming more to light as my sister, my father and I discuss our experiences of her. I think the situation is poorly handled at the moment. One of the things that perhaps bothers her above all else is the increased accountability she has for my younger siblings who still live with her, as now she has no one to dump them upon.

Thank you also, Aoide, for sharing your story.
 

Mariama

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When I grew up I had two favourite books, one was 'Rebecca' written by Daphne du Maurier and the other was 'The eyes of little Rose' by Clare Lennart (I don't think it was ever translated into English, but it should have been). Both books dealt with female psychopathy, OSIT.

Rebecca was a psychopath that knew exactly how to win people over by e.g. discussing topics that were important to them. She was in fact a profiler (like Jody Arias, discussed in the Jim Clemente videos thread), gathering information about the people around her, charming their socks off with her beauty, sophistication and wealth.
'The eyes of little Rose' describes a girl that has a psychopathic sister that at one point goes after her very close childhood friend (a lovely boy) and who destroys her favourite doll, little Rose, by pushing on and destroying the eyes of the doll. The girl in the film 'The Bad Seed' that Laura recommended reminds me of this sister, although she never killed anyone.
In my thirties there was 'Ugly ways' by Tina McElroy Ansa and although this was more about the illusion that many black women are under, that black mothers are compassionate and strong, the book really spoke to me, because I had never read a book before (I only used to read fiction) that depicted a mother so honestly and this 'Mudear' was a petty tyrant. The one sentence that I never forgot was (paraphrasing): we have to stop believing that chocolate milk is oozing from our mother's breasts. So when I read truthseeker's post it immediately made me think of these ugly ways of female psychopaths, mothers.

At the time I didn't know why these books spoke to me so loudly. I think these books were like lifelines then. Although I couldn't say out loud that I thought my mother was crazy or a psychopath (I didn't have any knowledge and no-one ever confirmed my findings about my mother when I was growing up), these books showed me that there were women out there that were dangerous and caused a lot of suffering.

I am mustering courage to write about my mother, the way SMM and Bluefyre and others did, but I really don't know where to begin, because there is so much to tell.
 

obyvatel

The Living Force
Another factor that is likely related to this topic.

Sentimentality

Sentimentality is usually understood as involving a disporportionate amount of feeling than what a situation or event reasonably warrants. In art, it is an effort to evoke disproportionate feelings. The nature of the feeling evoked is tender which could include elements of melancholy, sadness and longing. In his paper "The Psychology of Sentimentality", Theodore Branfman writes
While the sentimental affect is a sad one, it is unique in being a type of melancholy without consciously painful depression. Even stranger still, it is associated with conscious pleasure, as testified to by its frequent summoning in mass media (such as movies and soap operas).
Some psychologists associate sentimentality with idealization - the kind seen in nostalgia of a fictituous past dressed up as the "good old days". It is regarded as a barrier to clarity of thought.

In the Psychological Inventory of Criminal Thinking Styles (PICTS), sentimentality is one of the 8 thinking styles. The sentimental thinking style involves self-centered attempts to compensate for past criminal behaviors by doing good deeds. Those who score higher on this scale have a tendency towards the belief that one is a good person despite the damage caused to others through criminal conduct. They tend to minimize or deny the effect of their criminal actions and even justify their offenses. Empirical data (Palmer and Hollin 2003) show that high scores on sentimentality is positively correlated with males who commit violent crimes compared to those who committed regulatory or status offenses. High scores on sentimentality also correlate with criminal history in females and predicts female recividism (repeating criminal behavior even after being punished for it).

Jungian psychologist Marie Louise Von Franz writes about sentimentality in one of her lectures
[quote author=ML Von Franz]
In general where there is sentimentality, there is also a certain amount of brutality. Goering was a wonderful example, for without a qualm he could sign the death sentence for three hundred people, but if one of his birds died, then that fat old man would cry. He was a classic example! Cold brutality is very often covered up by sentimentality.
[/quote]

Histrionic and borderline personality disorders are usually accompanied by high degree of sentimentality. Disproportionate amounts of sentimentality may thus be another flag to watch out for.
 

Mariama

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obyvatel said:
Another factor that is likely related to this topic.

Sentimentality

Sentimentality is usually understood as involving a disporportionate amount of feeling than what a situation or event reasonably warrants. In art, it is an effort to evoke disproportionate feelings. The nature of the feeling evoked is tender which could include elements of melancholy, sadness and longing. In his paper "The Psychology of Sentimentality", Theodore Branfman writes
While the sentimental affect is a sad one, it is unique in being a type of melancholy without consciously painful depression. Even stranger still, it is associated with conscious pleasure, as testified to by its frequent summoning in mass media (such as movies and soap operas).
Some psychologists associate sentimentality with idealization - the kind seen in nostalgia of a fictituous past dressed up as the "good old days". It is regarded as a barrier to clarity of thought.

In the Psychological Inventory of Criminal Thinking Styles (PICTS), sentimentality is one of the 8 thinking styles. The sentimental thinking style involves self-centered attempts to compensate for past criminal behaviors by doing good deeds. Those who score higher on this scale have a tendency towards the belief that one is a good person despite the damage caused to others through criminal conduct. They tend to minimize or deny the effect of their criminal actions and even justify their offenses. Empirical data (Palmer and Hollin 2003) show that high scores on sentimentality is positively correlated with males who commit violent crimes compared to those who committed regulatory or status offenses. High scores on sentimentality also correlate with criminal history in females and predicts female recividism (repeating criminal behavior even after being punished for it).
Hence Jody Arias' (see the Jim Clemente videos thread) ideas for projects she could do in prison, trying to prove what a good citizen she could be, were she allowed to live.
I find myself going back to Amanda Knox who taught yoga and English in prison and when she came out she wrote a book about her experiences. During an interview with amazon.com she actually said that the reason why she wrote the book was that she wanted to help others who could benefit from her experiences. I don't know whether she was sincere. She still seemed to feel sorry for herself and looked as if she was about to cry again. At this point I was really growing impatient with her after the various interviews I had watched. At one point I would expect people to get a hold of themselves and move on. So, it may still be one big pity ploy.

obyvatel said:
Jungian psychologist Marie Louise Von Franz writes about sentimentality in one of her lectures
[quote author=ML Von Franz]
In general where there is sentimentality, there is also a certain amount of brutality. Goering was a wonderful example, for without a qualm he could sign the death sentence for three hundred people, but if one of his birds died, then that fat old man would cry. He was a classic example! Cold brutality is very often covered up by sentimentality.
Histrionic and borderline personality disorders are usually accompanied by high degree of sentimentality. Disproportionate amounts of sentimentality may thus be another flag to watch out for.
[/quote]

My mother reacted to highly sentimental films or series (I can't recall whether she was really crying, but she did have some sort of emotional reaction), but when her mother, her husband and some of her friends died I never saw her shed a tear. She would withdraw, though, and go to her room or visit our alcoholic neighbours to have a drink.
 

Laura

Administrator
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Mariama said:
I find myself going back to Amanda Knox who taught yoga and English in prison and when she came out she wrote a book about her experiences. During an interview with amazon.com she actually said that the reason why she wrote the book was that she wanted to help others who could benefit from her experiences. I don't know whether she was sincere. She still seemed to feel sorry for herself and looked as if she was about to cry again. At this point I was really growing impatient with her after the various interviews I had watched. At one point I would expect people to get a hold of themselves and move on. So, it may still be one big pity ploy.
Keep in mind the BIG difference: Amanda Knox appears to be INNOCENT of the crime she was accused of. Expecting her to demonstrate remorse for something she didn't do to someone she barely knew is a bit unrealistic.
 

Redrock12

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Laura said:
Mariama said:
I find myself going back to Amanda Knox who taught yoga and English in prison and when she came out she wrote a book about her experiences. During an interview with amazon.com she actually said that the reason why she wrote the book was that she wanted to help others who could benefit from her experiences. I don't know whether she was sincere. She still seemed to feel sorry for herself and looked as if she was about to cry again. At this point I was really growing impatient with her after the various interviews I had watched. At one point I would expect people to get a hold of themselves and move on. So, it may still be one big pity ploy.
Keep in mind the BIG difference: Amanda Knox appears to be INNOCENT of the crime she was accused of. Expecting her to demonstrate remorse for something she didn't do to someone she barely knew is a bit unrealistic.
Exactly. I find it disconcerting that Amanda Knox's behavior is consistently being equated with a psychopathic personality (Jodi Arias), when all of the evidence points toward Amanda's innocence.
That is, that the Italian court and police system found Amanda Knox guilty, notwithstanding all of the forensic and circumstantial evidence to the contrary, the sloppy, incompetent, and biased investigation, the endemic corruption and abuse of power by the police, prosecutor, and judges, and the total disregard for Amanda's rights.
And yet, there seems to be this need to paint Amanda Knox as a person capable of cold-blooded murder.
Again, very disconcerting.
 

Mr. Premise

The Living Force
Thanks for posting the stuff on sentimentality. It explains a lot. I remember reading how George Bush Sr. Cries a lot at sentimental moments.
 
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