Female Psychopathy

[Laura]

I find myself going back to Amanda Knox who taught yoga and English in prison and when she came out she wrote a book about her experiences. During an interview with amazon.com she actually said that the reason why she wrote the book was that she wanted to help others who could benefit from her experiences. I don't know whether she was sincere. She still seemed to feel sorry for herself and looked as if she was about to cry again. At this point I was really growing impatient with her after the various interviews I had watched. At one point I would expect people to get a hold of themselves and move on. So, it may still be one big pity ploy.

Keep in mind the BIG difference: Amanda Knox appears to be INNOCENT of the crime she was accused of. Expecting her to demonstrate remorse for something she didn't do to someone she barely knew is a bit unrealistic.

Exactly. I find it disconcerting that Amanda Knox's behavior is consistently being equated with a psychopathic personality (Jodi Arias), when all of the evidence points toward Amanda's innocence.
That is, that the Italian court and police system found Amanda Knox guilty, notwithstanding all of the forensic and circumstantial evidence to the contrary, the sloppy, incompetent, and biased investigation, the endemic corruption and abuse of power by the police, prosecutor, and judges, and the total disregard for Amanda's rights.
And yet, there seems to be this need to paint Amanda Knox as a person capable of cold-blooded murder.
Again, very disconcerting.

What is very interesting about this is that Amanda Knox, innocent, was behaving bravely and trying to put the best spin on a terrible situation. On the other side, Jody, who actually, finally confessed, and everyone KNEW she was guilty because the evidence was overwhelming, was acting "innocent" also because, as a psychopath, even if she DID heinously murder someone she claimed to love, it wasn't "her fault - he made her do it" and obviously, this professed "love" meant literally nothing to her.

So it is a very interesting comparison, but not for the reasons of comparing psychopaths, but for seeing that a psychopath can ACT innocent, even if everyone knows s/he is guilty. And they do it again and again and again.

 

[Bluefyre]

Yes, this explanation of sentimentality helps explain how my mother worried and fretted over her African violets but didn't give a rip about her children. I have to laugh at the absurdity.

 

[Aithin Tusa Fein]

I think it would be beneficial to the conversation to point out that I have know a few people that seemed normal for as long as I have known them until they began using drugs (usually prescription pain killers), then they began to display the psychopathic characteristics posted in this thread. But, prior to drugs, they seemed to be normal.

 

[Gwenllian]

I find myself going back to Amanda Knox who taught yoga and English in prison and when she came out she wrote a book about her experiences. During an interview with amazon.com she actually said that the reason why she wrote the book was that she wanted to help others who could benefit from her experiences. I don't know whether she was sincere. She still seemed to feel sorry for herself and looked as if she was about to cry again. At this point I was really growing impatient with her after the various interviews I had watched. At one point I would expect people to get a hold of themselves and move on. So, it may still be one big pity ploy.

Keep in mind the BIG difference: Amanda Knox appears to be INNOCENT of the crime she was accused of. Expecting her to demonstrate remorse for something she didn't do to someone she barely knew is a bit unrealistic.

Exactly. I find it disconcerting that Amanda Knox's behavior is consistently being equated with a psychopathic personality (Jodi Arias), when all of the evidence points toward Amanda's innocence.
That is, that the Italian court and police system found Amanda Knox guilty, notwithstanding all of the forensic and circumstantial evidence to the contrary, the sloppy, incompetent, and biased investigation, the endemic corruption and abuse of power by the police, prosecutor, and judges, and the total disregard for Amanda's rights.
And yet, there seems to be this need to paint Amanda Knox as a person capable of cold-blooded murder.
Again, very disconcerting.

Sorry, I am a bit late with my reply.

I know that Amanda Knox appears to be innocent. But somehow I thought the two cases were a lot alike. Arias might have studied her, that was a thought that went through my head. And although Amanda must have suffered a lot being falsely accused and imprisoned, which is indeed terrible, she is still alive. She has a wonderful family that has done everything for her within their power. She has gone to college to study creative writing. She was able to write a book and earn back the money that her family had spent on lawyers and a public relations firm. Meredith Kercher was savagely murdered and will not get another chance. At least, Amanda could have acknowledged that during one of her interviews (or maybe she did and that bit wasn't aired). After all, both families have suffered tremendously. There are no winners here.

Added: Amanda did reach out to Meredith's family, that she did, unfortunately they didn't want to know. They could have supported one another through this ordeal, but the Kercher family still believes she is guilty, which is tragic.

 

[SMM]

Sorry, I am a bit late with my reply.

I know that Amanda Knox appears to be innocent. But somehow I thought the two cases were a lot alike. Arias might have studied her, that was a thought that went through my head. And although Amanda must have suffered a lot being falsely accused and imprisoned, which is indeed terrible, she is still alive. She has a wonderful family that has done everything for her within their power. She has gone to college to study creative writing. She was able to write a book and earn back the money that her family had spent on lawyers and a public relations firm. Meredith Kercher was savagely murdered and will not get another chance. At least, Amanda could have acknowledged that during one of her interviews (or maybe she did and that bit wasn't aired). After all, both families have suffered tremendously. There are no winners here.

Added: Amanda did reach out to Meredith's family, that she did, unfortunately they didn't want to know. They could have supported one another through this ordeal, but the Kercher family still believes she is guilty, which is tragic.

Maybe someone in the Kercher family had motives against Amanda? I don't think this would have, or could have, influenced a verdict unless evidence was deliberately dismissed.

 

[Laura]

The Kercher family was seriously played by the Italian authorities and press.

 

[Redrock12]

The Kercher family was seriously played by the Italian authorities and press.

And sadly, most of the British press towed the Italian line without even bothering to pursue an objective investigation.
Imo, the British press has sunk to an all-time low.

 

[Kasia]

In the link below they describe pretty accurate characteristics of psychopath in general, but in my opinion it refers better to female psychopath
(I think never mind it's a web site of the christian counseling center).

_http://www.dovechristiancounseling.com/Characteristics-Of-Psychopaths.html

Reading the list I've got before my eyes the woman I've been observing since 3 years. I like the point 50:

50.) Likes to find out about or observe other psychopaths. For example, likes to watch Hollywood action films with psychopathic characters or read books about psychopathic historical characters such as Napoleon. Perhaps this partly explains why different psychopaths often use similar "scripts" for their deceitful practices

She is in fact a translator of books about madmen being in power, frightening tsarinas, cia acting during wars...Of course she also seems to have most of other listed traits.

 

[SMM]

In the link below they describe pretty accurate characteristics of psychopath in general, but in my opinion it refers better to female psychopath
(I think never mind it's a web site of the christian counseling center).

_http://www.dovechristiancounseling.com/Characteristics-Of-Psychopaths.html

Reading the list I've got before my eyes the woman I've been observing since 3 years. I like the point 50:

50.) Likes to find out about or observe other psychopaths. For example, likes to watch Hollywood action films with psychopathic characters or read books about psychopathic historical characters such as Napoleon. Perhaps this partly explains why different psychopaths often use similar "scripts" for their deceitful practices

She is in fact a translator of books about madmen being in power, frightening tsarinas, cia acting during wars...Of course she also seems to have most of other listed traits.

64.) Normal people may sense or feel the presence of "evil". It permeates from the psychopath. We react with nausea, fear, and we often say "Oh, he doesn't mean that". It is often intangible and something we can't really define.

In whatever sense she is using the word 'evil', she hits the nail on the head with this one!

 

[luc]

Today I stumbled on this article on facebook about sociopath women and how to spot them (women psychopaths):

_http://welldoing.org/how-to-spot-sociopath-women/

Here's an excerpt with a few comments based on my experience with a female psychopath who held me in her grip for a long time:

How sociopath women commonly abuse other people:

[...]
Sociopaths frequently perceive threats from others [read: their "food" taking the right steps for themselves towards growth and away from the psychopath] as acts of disrespect, disloyalty, criticism, or disobedience and seek retribution. The more severe the personality disorder, the more severe, persistent and pervasive the harm done.

Where sociopathic men may use physical dominance and control over their intended target, sociopath women often rely on another approach: manipulation of the minutiae of their close relationships [oh yes!]. What motivates sociopaths of both genders is the achievement of power and control over others and the expectation of some sort of gain, which is used to provoke the admiration and envy of others, and in turn glorify the self.

Sociopaths tend to single out individuals or groups for abuse [very characteristic]. Sociopathic women tend to do this most in the sphere of their control – in their intimate relationships with partners, children, family members, friends and colleagues. Her abuses most often manifest as verbal attacks and covert aggression. [very true, though female psychopaths can also exhibit traits of the male psychopath, depending on their personality]

The sociopathic woman may opt to manipulate social networks, for instance, in an attempt to exclude their chosen target from a community. [very characteristic. Note that this can be very subtle - a negative comment here, a little lie in a half sentence there...] Alternatively, her ploy may take the form of threats of self-injury, with consequences for family and friends. [the first girlfriend of a school friend of mine threatened to kill herself if he leaves him... oh my.]

Unlike male sociopaths, sociopath women are not particularly characterised by superficial charm and a grandiose self-image [at least not overt, although this can also be the case - whatever works for them to achieve their cruel goals, depending on the victim and the situation]. This could be related to cultural conditions. However like her male counterpart, the sociopathic woman’s response to other people is characterised by a persistent lack of empathy, care, and commitment.

Sociopath women are less likely to physically leave or move on from relationships (e.g. with a child or parent) [though promiscuity, changing relationships frequently, while making dramas out of it etc. can also be characteristic], and their damaging nature is less likely to be detected (emotional abuse as opposed to physical abuse) and therefore may be enduring [true, although I think that sometimes other people who know those involved sometimes can see pretty clearly what's going on. Problem is that the victim is so "stunned"/entangled in the emotional games/abuses, that he/she misses the obvious]. Sociopathic tendencies are thus often more subtle and covert in women. They use their powers of emotional manipulation to gain an understanding of the particular vulnerabilities of their chosen target and show a profound absence of empathy at their exploitation. [oh yes, that's exactly what happened to me]

 

[Dave_P]

Thank you very much for this post.
I can say from my own experience that this type of information is necessary for everyone. I can add that psychopaths women can "hit the mark" for example, know how manipulation through the voice tone, even convince you that everything they do is for the good of the family (even if it means lying in their work to steal as a superior). They can sound very persuasive and you need a very objective and accurate vision to see their hidden agenda (even cost me). So I think that the information in this post is perfect to learn and not make the same mistakes. thanks again!

 

[Matai]

An example of a female psychopath?

"A woman who witnessed a fatal SUV accident in Brooklyn was not put off from her food by the tragic event.
The woman was caught on surveillance camera turning around after a vehicle hit a trio of pedestrians. She looked at the victims before continuing to devour her pizza slice."

"I don't know how you could keep eating your pizza and keep walking. There's no reason, at least try. Make it your business to help. Not OK. ... wouldn't you want to help?"

https://www.rt.com/usa/325036-woman-crash-new-york-pizza/

 

[obyvatel]

An example of a female psychopath?

"A woman who witnessed a fatal SUV accident in Brooklyn was not put off from her food by the tragic event.
The woman was caught on surveillance camera turning around after a vehicle hit a trio of pedestrians. She looked at the victims before continuing to devour her pizza slice."

"I don't know how you could keep eating your pizza and keep walking. There's no reason, at least try. Make it your business to help. Not OK. ... wouldn't you want to help?"

https://www.rt.com/usa/325036-woman-crash-new-york-pizza/

Looks like an expression of bystander apathy.
https://explorable.com/bystander-apathy-experiment
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201110/why-we-stand-and-dont-help

 

[Matai]

An example of a female psychopath?

"A woman who witnessed a fatal SUV accident in Brooklyn was not put off from her food by the tragic event.
The woman was caught on surveillance camera turning around after a vehicle hit a trio of pedestrians. She looked at the victims before continuing to devour her pizza slice."

"I don't know how you could keep eating your pizza and keep walking. There's no reason, at least try. Make it your business to help. Not OK. ... wouldn't you want to help?"

https://www.rt.com/usa/325036-woman-crash-new-york-pizza/

Looks like an expression of bystander apathy.
https://explorable.com/bystander-apathy-experiment
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201110/why-we-stand-and-dont-help

Thank you obyvatel.

I was quite shocked to see this lady's apparent lack of caring for those involved in the car crash, but I can see how this lack of empathy can be due to bystander apathy.

 

[luc]

I found this study about psychopathy in women mentioned in the book "Empathy Trap". It's not groundbreaking I think, but there might be some clues in there. Note that the study was done among inmates of prisons and institutions, so it's likely that it doesn't cover the more clever psychopaths (those who haven't been caught).

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51652620_Capturing_the_Psychopathic_Female_A_Prototypicality_Analysis_of_the_Comprehensive_Assessment_of_Psychopathic_Personality_CAPP_Across_Gender

When considering specific examples of psychopathic men and women, few gender differences emerged, but those differences that did emerge reflected the general gender findings. Only four CAPP symptoms were significantly more prototypical of psychopathy in male clients, with medium to large effect sizes, but all four were highly (M ≥ 5) prototypical of psychopathy across gender: “self-centered” [t(35) = 3.48, p = 0.009, d = 0.74],“aggressive” [t(36.3) = 2.43, p = 0.020, d = 0.51], “self-aggrandizing” [t(114) = 2.63,p = .010, d = 0.58], and “disruptive” [t(120) = 2.04, p = 0.043, d = 0.43]. Note that the assumption of equal variance was not met for “aggressive” and “self-centered”. Two CAPP symptoms were significantly more prototypical of female clients: “lacks emotional stability” [t(120) = 2.07, p = 0.41, d = 0.44] and “unstable self-concept”[t(120) = 2.03, p = 0.044, d = 0.43], both with medium effect sizes. The former symp-tom was highly prototypical of psychopathy in female clients only, but the latter was not highly prototypical of psychopathy in females (M = 4.5, SD = 1.9) or males(M = 3.7, SD = 1.8). One foil symptom (“considerate”) was significantly higher for female clients [t(120) = 2.15, p = 0.033, d = 0.46], but had low prototypicality ratings across gender (M ≤ 3). It should be noted that although these results largely reflect the general gender findings, power was affected by the unequal sample sizes and the problem of multiple significance testing cannot be ruled out. These results should therefore be interpreted with some caution.

DISCUSSION

This study aimed to take a first step toward a clearer conceptualization of psychopathy in women using a newly developed model of psychopathy (CAPP), which provides abroad and gender-sensitive conceptual framework. Furthermore, the content validity of the CAPP across gender was examined.There were three primary findings. First, the results suggested that psychopathic men and women are similar in the key symptoms and domains that are relevant to the construct, but also that important gender differences exist. These differences are likely a matter of degree. That is, although some symptoms and domains may typically be more prominent in psychopathic men or in psychopathic women, they are not spe-cific to psychopathy in any one gender.Second, across gender the interpersonal CAPP domains – attachment, dominance and self – were particularly salient of psychopathy and the cognitive domain least salient. This is in line with other findings on the CAPP (Hoff et al., in press; Kreiset al., in press).Third, men were higher in the attachment, dominance, behavioral, and cognitive domains, with symptoms such as “self-aggrandizing”, “sense of invulnerability”, “self-centered”, “domineering” , “reckless”, “disruptive”, “aggressive”, “lacks anxiety” and“unempathic” rated as more relevant to psychopathy in men, and the symptoms“manipulative”, “lacks emotional stability” and “unstable self-concept” rated as more relevant to psychopathy in women. Of note, the latter symptom has been found to be a weaker item in the CAPP model (Hoff et al., in press; Kreis et al., in press). Despite this, the current findings support the inclusion of this symptom as it enhances the CAPP’s gender sensitivity.Overall, the results suggest the CAPP model captures the construct of psychopathy well across gender, providing support for its content validity with both men and women. The findings also support the existing literature in suggesting that psychopathic women may be – or present as – more manipulative and emotionally unstable than psychopathic men and less grandiose and (physically) aggressive and domineering(e.g., Forouzan & Cooke, 2005; Verona & Vitale, 2006). In discussing the findings, the following points will be considered: whether the findings can be explained within the proposed theoretical framework; what a prototypical psychopathic woman may lookCapturing the psychopathic female 643Copyright © 2011 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd. Behav. Sci. Law 29: 634–648 (2011)DOI: 10.1002/bsl
like; and what the findings mean for forensic and clinical research and practice. Finally,the study’s limitations will be considered and recommendations for future researchwill be provided.

Maybe there's a hint that female psychopathy is even harder to detect, and that female psychopaths can be more confusing. Also, maybe female psychopaths on average are more skilled/prone to simulate empathy, emotional problems, vulnerability, anxiety etc. to lure their victims in.


ADDED:
Related thread: How To Spot A Dangerous Woman