finding partners...

[BHelmet]

OK, I want to play devil's advocate here for a moment. (and I do mean the general law and our place within it and our relationship to it) There is an ongoing thread of "I want to avoid some of life's greatest mistakes and traps". But I don't think we came here to avoid life. To a certain degree, we came here because we do have lessons to learn. So, in a sense, by avoiding some of life's greatest pitfalls (relationships) we are ironically, in essence, avoiding our own lessons.

We are in a dance with our self; with THE self; with God, to use the phrase. At various points in my life, I too wanted to avoid making these mistakes. ("I am above it all. I decline to play the game; I don't like the way the game looks to be played; relationships can be a huge PIA; this game is beneath me; why is everyone so obsessed with sex? etc.) There is a tendency to demonize the lower self; to try to distance the higher parts from the lower parts. And yet, these lower parts are also a part of what we have to work with. The lower self parts give us the raw material for impressions and lessons.

As both Mouravieff and Gurdjieff pointed out, we do have some duty to the Ray of Creation; we are a part of organic life on earth. We have parts to play that we may not fully comprehend. By attempting to deny our 3D human frailty and qualities, we may be shirking that duty to the evolution of organic life and withholding our contribution to life itself.

All the sports analogies come to mind. At some point, for myself, I realized that I was called to get in the game and give it my best shot. With these hard lessons can come real knowledge and understanding gained experientially and not just theoretically. And in the course of participation in life, we have opportunities to play out our part in all the various scripts we are a party to. In the course of just living life, we may make some contribution we are not even aware of to someone by how we relate to our own life.

(Parenthetical Sidebar: at some point I said to my self - 'there are so many morons and idiots reproducing, why shouldn't I, an intelligent, handsome, sensitive, humane person also reproduce to balance out the brutish, dysfunctional lot I see around me?? ...sigh, I have never shied from foolhardiness - partly from sheer ignorance and partly because this life always seemed like such an absurd circus to me anyway so, what the hell? But that is just my lower self or inner essence talking. Conversely, I have learned SO much and evolved so much from having a family and kids. It took the focus off me and my little wants and preferences that Gurdjieff talks about in the first few chapters of ISOTM. It has been rewarding, painful, challenging and enlightening, in no particular order. Especially raising the kids in this whacky world. LOL, remember, if your parents avoided these pitfalls, you wouldn't be here to have these character-building experiences! Too funny. Welcome to the jungle.)

In the course of trying to avoid the minefield, I think there is the pitfall to make our actions and choices overly significant. (Self-importance). I think we also can tend to over-rationalize our choices so as to be right and justified about it. But, in a sense, I think this is a natural attempt to remove our responsibility from our choice because of how all the reasons and justifications added up. But in reality, it is an unweighted choice! What difference does it really make in the grand scheme of things?

We ARE creatures of the creator. And yet we are also the creator itself. How can we give back to creation our conscious awareness if we are running from the game that, after all, WE set up in order to learn and accelerate the learning curve? (long cycle vs short cycle)

So, lastly, why were we in such a hurry to learn and grow that we put ourselves in this predicament?

...Ah, youth.

I knew better, but I came along because that is what we all decided.
Yes, there is a lesson there too. Not sure if I learned it, yet.
Did I come to be able to say "I told you so!" in anger?
But I know the higher self came along to be a companion with you for the ride.

I am not trying to twist anybodies arm into doing something stupid that you know better than.
My intent here is to present another point of view for consideration for the sake of possible learning.

Wow - I went WAY overboard. So be it.

 

[riclapaz]

Hi BHelmet, I think like everything in the universe is organized and balanced, I agree with you, it is not avoided, the purpose is to confront the difficulties with the application of knowledge, so the signal to the universe is with some consciousness, and to get to issue a conscious signal, much work is needed, all this natural process takes years of breaking rocks, I think there may come a time when not needed to prevent the soul, will meet with new lessons, according to their learning level, I believe that in the event one want to avoid, the universe is responsible for putting before us what is necessary for our learning, as often as necessary, until the soul learn the lesson.
Just my thoughts

 

[mrelectric91]

Are we not going through the lessons, to cultivate a soul, a real I. We don't begin with one or am I mistaken? The biggest challenge I think is finding a steady centre of gravity under the influence of the law of accident. From my understanding the universe isn't here to help us along, we are not conscious to varying extents so we are subject to the law of accident, and we probably don't have an objective enough picture of ourselves so we don't see our chief feature and how it forms a foundation of our misteps in all areas of our lives.... it is up to us to combine knowledge being, so we have a less chaotic interaction with reality. From a certain position one may think that they are learning lessons, when they are really, spinning around on the same spot. I think the key is to apply the knowledge, in various areas of life then move on.

 

[riclapaz]

Are we not going through the lessons, to cultivate a soul, a real I. We don't begin with one or am I mistaken?

I think the answer must be broken, are the OP, according to the evolutionary scale are close to being granted an individual soul, the other side are beings who have a unified soul in the evolutionary scale are coming to pass to 4D, the work described by Gurdjieff , is to establish contact with the real self, with higher centers,to all those who have an individual soul, and are ready for graduation 4D, the Cs have mentioned the possibility for an OP, 4d passing, though it would be rare.

From a certain position one may think that they are learning lessons, when they are really, spinning around on the same spot.

Yes, it may be the case, and therefore it is also a lesson to learn. :)

 

[Neil]

Added: So all in all, two polar opposites would be collinear with the same Aim of becoming conscious. Theoretically this would be the same. However in terms of energy and strengths/weakeness, I would assume that they would be opposites. That is how they compliment each other so perfectly!

Yes, collinear and complimentary is how it was described in Earth Changes and the Human Cosmic Connection.

However, co-linearity, sharing similar true information, might not be all that is required to reach full synergy. The Jahn and Dunne research mentioned above showed that while bonded couples of different sex had a synergetic influence (six times more than a single individual), couples of the same sex tended to have a very slight negative effect (they had a worse outcome than what they achieved individually). This suggests that synergic individuals need not only to be collinear (shared information, vision and objective) but also need to be complementary. Perhaps in the case of bonded couples of different sex, one brings a more emotional take on things to the equation, while the other brings a more intellectual approach. Both takes can be true, but alone they form only part of the overall perspective, hence their complementarity.

The homosexual thing was interesting, it sparked quite a firestorm as I'm sure most of you recall. I think Pierre tried to explain this in his "Mummy, why is Daddy Wearing a Dress" article as it basically being due to the normalization of a pathological element creeping into homosexual relationships because of psychopaths' fascination with pederasty.

Q: Okay, when they were on their home planet, why did they develop a masculine religion as opposed to a feminine one, considering the fact that women are the source of life, in certain terms?
A: In your density, masculinism/feminism is essentially a roll of "the dice." Remember, at higher levels gender is nonexistent.

In light of this, assuming there is some kind of Grand Cycle closing where all of these souls are crowding in to grab a body, it does raise an interesting question in my mind how many polar beings are of the same sex. I wonder how many people would get all upset about it just because that's "against their orientation." Anyway, moving on...

For me personally I don't see it as dangerous or something that hurts more than help, to study, discuss, or think about polar opposites, anymore than any other studies, discussions, or thoughts I can have of bettering myself, or reaching a higher level. For me it is part of being curious and interested to know more about how everything works and what exist and what doesn't, to have an interest in the subject.

I have mixed feelings on the subject. The polar opposite idea is interesting from one perspective because it gives you a higher ideal to strive for instead of just accepting the fact that you're always going to be hopelessly alone and eternally heartbroken. I already had the concept in mind before I ever read Gnosis, and Mouravieff just sort of gave me a semi-scientific context to understand it in. On the other hand, I do occasionally find myself wondering what it must be like, and I'm sure that's something Gurdjieff would frown upon. I can't help being a bit of a hopeless romantic, with emphasis on the hopeless part

OK, I want to play devil's advocate here for a moment. (and I do mean the general law and our place within it and our relationship to it) There is an ongoing thread of "I want to avoid some of life's greatest mistakes and traps". But I don't think we came here to avoid life. To a certain degree, we came here because we do have lessons to learn. So, in a sense, by avoiding some of life's greatest pitfalls (relationships) we are ironically, in essence, avoiding our own lessons.

Your "Devil's Advocate" post certainly got my emotional center spinning. I had to think about how I wanted to respond to that. I think I'll start here.

Q: (L) And just waking up and seeing it is the whole thing? Okay, once we wake up and SEE it, why can't we just check out at that point? If you know what the script is, you don't have to watch
the movie!
A: But then you miss out on the experience.
Q: (L) So, we are all here to experience being munched and crunched...
A: No.
Q: (L) Imprisoned, controlled, being treated like rats in a cage in a laboratory...
A: Ecstasy, remember?
Q: (L) Ecstasy?! WELL SWELL! We can just ALL be BURNED AT THE STAKE! I understand that is QUITE and ECSTATIC experience! I'm sure William Wallace felt perfectly ecstatic when
they castrated him and removed his bowels and burned them in a brazier in front of his face!
A: Not so long ago, your face smashed upon the pavement...
Q: (L) Was that an ecstatic experience?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) So, when you say 'ecstatic' you could just be talking about jumping out a window and croaking?! You gotta understand here! The perspective here on 3rd density! You don't have faces to
smash on pavements!
A: Neither will/do you/us.
Q: (A) You say knowledge protects. It protects against WHAT?
A: Many things. One example: post transformational trauma and confusion.
Q: (L) So, knowledge is going to protect us against post transformational trauma and confusion. You are saying that this transition to 4th density is going to be traumatic and confusing. Do you
mean transformation from 3rd to 4th density, or 3rd to 5th density, i.e. death?
A: Both.
Q: (L) So, if one does not have the shock and trauma and the confusion and so forth, one is then able to function better?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Well, if a person transitions directly from 3rd to 4th density without cycling through 5th density via dying, that implies that persons can transition directly from 3rd to 4th density without
dying. Is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) How does that feel? How is that experience...
A: Alice through the looking glass.
Q: (A) Okay, they say that knowledge is supposed to protect from trauma and confusion. On the other hand, all is lessons, so trauma is a lesson. Why are we supposed to work to avoid a lesson?
A: You are correct, it is a lesson, but if you have foreknowledge, you are learning that lesson early, and in a different way.
Q: (L) So, if you learn the lesson in a different way, does that mitigate the need or the way or the process of the way of learning at the time of transition?
A: Yes. Smoother.
Q: (L) I do have to say that thinking about it all, not being able to do anything about it, not being able to talk to people about it because they don't believe, is certainly more painful than being hit
by the shock of it...
A: No.

Even though the context of the discussion here is talking about the transition to 4D, I think the concept applies universally. I know the dating game is a lie. It is a lie based on getting the "happy chemicals" from someone else so that you can get high and feel good about yourself. Those who believe in lies tend to disintegrate; they are heartbroken, bitter, even suicidal. They end up in terrible complicated situations because they got into relationships frivolously. The children of these relationships more often than not end up in broken homes and grow up to be broken, ponerized individuals. When I see them, I feel sad. Sad that they will never know true love and tenderness, and will just grow up to be the next wounded and ignorant generation. A smart man learns from his own mistakes but a wise man learns from the mistakes of others. I do not have to experience this lesson for myself in order to learn it. I see its effects every day and it is viscerally real to me. I have learned the lesson early and in a different way. This is not "avoiding life," but approaching it from a perspective of cautiousness and wisdom. Knowledge protects.

We are in a dance with our self; with THE self; with God, to use the phrase. At various points in my life, I too wanted to avoid making these mistakes. ("I am above it all. I decline to play the game; I don't like the way the game looks to be played; relationships can be a huge PIA; this game is beneath me; why is everyone so obsessed with sex? etc.) There is a tendency to demonize the lower self; to try to distance the higher parts from the lower parts. And yet, these lower parts are also a part of what we have to work with. The lower self parts give us the raw material for impressions and lessons.

My understanding is that the lower self must be subjugated to the higher self. Yes, it has its purpose, but that purpose is in alignment with the higher self providing the fuel to achieve a conscious aim, not spinning around willy-nilly in the realm of A influences enthralled to the General Law.

As both Mouravieff and Gurdjieff pointed out, we do have some duty to the Ray of Creation; we are a part of organic life on earth. We have parts to play that we may not fully comprehend. By attempting to deny our 3D human frailty and qualities, we may be shirking that duty to the evolution of organic life and withholding our contribution to life itself.

True, but I think if you read the material carefully, the duty those who are involved in the Work have to organic life on Earth is to become more evolved creatures so that we can transduce finer energies and perhaps help the planet evolve into its 4D spiral. Our duty is to the Law of Exception, not the General Law. From the point of view of the General Law, it doesn't matter one iota whether you or I or 1 billion people die tomorrow. We are just insignificant cogs in a machine that can easily be replaced. The system will be maintained at all costs. Also keep in mind in whose interest it is to maintain the General Law as it is, certainly not ours. From the point of view of Law of Exception, we are probably fairly important because there are very few strong enough to resist the power of the General Law, and even most of those who walk that path seem to suffer some kind of irreparable fall at some point. Everyone is needed to form that esoteric core so that life on Earth has a possibility of continuing in its evolution and not being tossed out as a "failed experiment." As the alchemical tradition puts it, if you want to turn lead into gold, you need to have a tiny amount of gold to start with so that transmutation can take place.

It has been rewarding, painful, challenging and enlightening, in no particular order. Especially raising the kids in this whacky world. LOL, remember, if your parents avoided these pitfalls, you wouldn't be here to have these character-building experiences! Too funny. Welcome to the jungle.)

My personal opinion on this is that there was more hope during your generation than there is for mine. After 9/11, the psychopathic control system went into overdrive and has basically destroyed everything that is good and beautiful in the world. We live in an Orwellian dystopia where everyone is a commodity at the disposal of the PTB and they don't even try to hide it anymore. I don't see much hope for young children in this world. If the vaccines and GMOs don't screw them up for life, the pedophiles will, if they don't get them there's always the psychopathic media working to corrupt their brains, common core to destroy their ability to think, economic collapse and debt peonage, wars, and whatever else the PTB have in store for us. People can't stay together because the environment is so screwed up, they don't know how to care and get out of their narcissistic little worlds.

My mother left my father and me when I was baby and became a drug addict. Eventually she died when I was 10. In addition my father was a bit difficult to live with and ended up dabbling in drugs himself later on. I was raised mostly by my grandparents, who were a lot better, but had their own idiosyncrasies, of course. I do not consider any of this to be "character building," if anything it loaded me up with a bunch of programs and problems which I have to study and undo before I can actually do anything. If I incarnated at this time to accomplish a certain work, instead of starting at 0 and working my way up, I have to start at -100, due to the complications of the film. Most children do not survive these broken home situations, and mine was actually quite mild compared to many. If people as a rule were born from conscious relationships where the parents actually knew how to love each other and their children, there would be a lot less pain in our lives just to get to a point of being able to function as a decent human being. Sorry, I just don't buy that this sort of thing builds character any more than rape builds character. It just feeds the moon.

Some people say that your greatest contribution is the ones you leave behind. Perhaps this is true, I'm not against procreation per se. However, from all the things I see now, all my children are going to experience in life is endless suffering and sorrow where they will never know love nor peace, and it will either consume them or they will be numbed into submission as mindless automatons. This is especially true if my wife was not of the polar opposite type and was what Mouravieff calls a "free romance." It is simply unconscionable for me to bring a child into this sort of a situation, especially since I've been reading all of these books and really ought to know better. In a different world, where you could raise your children to make a better world than you could, to pass the torch to the next generation, and experience the parent-child love of being able to provide for their highest and best interest, I would have a little bit of a different outlook. When the current cosmic environment makes this impossible, the most rational thing to do is to refuse to procreate. The only exception to this I can think of is if the child personally came to me in a vision or something and said something to the effect of, "I have a mission, I need you to be my dad."

In the course of trying to avoid the minefield, I think there is the pitfall to make our actions and choices overly significant. (Self-importance). I think we also can tend to over-rationalize our choices so as to be right and justified about it. But, in a sense, I think this is a natural attempt to remove our responsibility from our choice because of how all the reasons and justifications added up. But in reality, it is an unweighted choice! What difference does it really make in the grand scheme of things?

I think there is some element of truth to what you say here, but there is a middle ground that must be walked. I disagree that it's about removing responsibility; quite the opposite, it is taking responsibility for our actions in a conscious way and trying to see and understand all of the consequences. Getting involved in a relationship is one of the biggest choices one could make in ones spiritual life because of all the karmic debts that seem to be involved, for you, your partner, and any children involved, and perhaps several others who are tangentially involved in a relationship. The ripple effects can last several lifetimes and it is not something to be taken lightly. On the other hand, I can see obsessing over someone being your polar opposite and letting a good opportunity escape you because you were too invested in this particular theory. If you analyze someone for awhile and you realize that you're pretty much collinear and you like each other, and they exhibit the signs that Mouravieff talks about in his book, I don't see why I wouldn't take a chance on somebody like that. It may later turn out to be a mistake, but it was a good mistake made from a position of knowledge and striving to do the right thing. That would be learning a lesson in a positive way, instead of coming at it from ignorance, impatience, or other worse things.

So, lastly, why were we in such a hurry to learn and grow that we put ourselves in this predicament?

Well, if I was some naïve soul bouncing around in some utopian realm, I might come to the conclusion that life there was rather slow, predictable, and just all around "boring." This other thing looked like an adventure where the uncertainty creates the possibility of excitement. The commercials were just so cool. So then after you get there, the Lizzies close the door behind you and say, "Oh yeah, in the fine print it says you become our slaves. Now we will make you forget everything and you will turn into animals. See how much fun this is." And in that one instant you lament the fact that the commercial was "overhyped" and doesn't match the reality, and then you turn into an animal and forget everything. So that's my tongue-in-cheek version of how I think it happened.

Wow - I went WAY overboard. So be it.

So did I, I had a strong emotional reaction to a lot of the things that you said, but I did want to respond to the Devil's Advocate point of view because there were some points in there I majorly disagreed with.

 

[BHelmet]

Your "Devil's Advocate" post certainly got my emotional center spinning.

Well, I guess so!

I had to think about how I wanted to respond to that.

And here is how I am going to try to re-respond: Regarding 'playing' devil's advocate, I think it is a valuable tool. My intention in taking this tack was to take the discussion to a deeper level; to try and widen the playing field. I did not intend to single anybody out. That said, it seems to me that you are a very intelligent and deep thinking individual. If your avatar is a picture of you, you look like a fine young man. and in reading your thoughtful posts, I'd be proud if your were my son. So, my intention here is to serve you in your aim of seeking and applying knowledge as that is what we are all here for. That is a basic assumption on my part. OK, onward...

(BTW, i am not trying to butter you up, I am being sincere)

Q: (L) And just waking up and seeing it is the whole thing? Okay, once we wake up and SEE it, why can't we just check out at that point? If you know what the script is, you don't have to watch
the movie!

Have you never seen a movie twice and seen things the second time you missed in the first viewing? But, yes, I agree that if we have been down a certain road and a path seems to lead down the same road, we are better off in not going again.

I know the dating game is a lie. It is a lie based on getting the "happy chemicals" from someone else so that you can get high and feel good about yourself.

I think this is an oversimplification. If a person is confronted by the presence of their polar opposite, aren't there going to be powerful feelings? And how are we supposed to know if it is the real deal or just another mirage?

Those who believe in lies tend to disintegrate; they are heartbroken, bitter, even suicidal. They end up in terrible complicated situations because they got into relationships frivolously. The children of these relationships more often than not end up in broken homes and grow up to be broken, ponerized individuals. When I see them, I feel sad. Sad that they will never know true love and tenderness, and will just grow up to be the next wounded and ignorant generation.

I don't disagree. BTW, I look at this discussion as kind of like a connoisseur thing. Comparing notes on wine tasting or something like that. I intend no personal attack. Just tossing ideas back and forth.

A smart man learns from his own mistakes but a wise man learns from the mistakes of others.

Yeah, that is what they say here on planet earth. But this strikes me as an A influence type of common wisdom as well as real wisdom. I guess my point is that it can also be a pitfall to hold things so rigidly. Just because something sounds reasonable doesn't mean it is. In fact, reasonableness can be said to be a hallmark of the general law. Yeah I guess that is part of my point: things are not all so cut and dried.

I do not have to experience this lesson for myself in order to learn it. I see its effects every day and it is viscerally real to me. I have learned the lesson early and in a different way. This is not "avoiding life," but approaching it from a perspective of cautiousness and wisdom. Knowledge protects.

Well, you are a better man than I , then. I must admit that my personal experience has been that I really learned my lessons from actually being involved in my own life experiences. Often it would take years to really reflect and 'get it'. I spent many years just sticking my toes in the water. I know all about being cautious. FWIW

We are in a dance with our self; with THE self; with God, to use the phrase. At various points in my life, I too wanted to avoid making these mistakes. ("I am above it all. I decline to play the game; I don't like the way the game looks to be played; relationships can be a huge PIA; this game is beneath me; why is everyone so obsessed with sex? etc.) There is a tendency to demonize the lower self; to try to distance the higher parts from the lower parts. And yet, these lower parts are also a part of what we have to work with. The lower self parts give us the raw material for impressions and lessons.

My understanding is that the lower self must be subjugated to the higher self. Yes, it has its purpose, but that purpose is in alignment with the higher self providing the fuel to achieve a conscious aim, not spinning around willy-nilly in the realm of A influences enthralled to the General Law.

I do not mean to suggest wallowing in A influences. I mean to suggest that people who live primarily in their heads can lack presence of being.

True, but I think if you read the material carefully, the duty those who are involved in the Work have to organic life on Earth is to become more evolved creatures so that we can transduce finer energies and perhaps help the planet evolve into its 4D spiral. Our duty is to the Law of Exception, not the General Law. From the point of view of the General Law, it doesn't matter one iota whether you or I or 1 billion people die tomorrow. We are just insignificant cogs in a machine that can easily be replaced. The system will be maintained at all costs. Also keep in mind in whose interest it is to maintain the General Law as it is

I don't know that those who use the general law to their own benefit need to maintain it. Isn't it just a description of existence here? A given, like the rules of the ball game? As for a duty to the Law of Exception, I see it as a choice, not a duty.

It has been rewarding, painful, challenging and enlightening, in no particular order. Especially raising the kids in this whacky world. LOL, remember, if your parents avoided these pitfalls, you wouldn't be here to have these character-building experiences! Too funny. Welcome to the jungle.)

My personal opinion on this is that there was more hope during your generation than there is for mine. After 9/11, the psychopathic control system went into overdrive and has basically destroyed everything that is good and beautiful in the world.

While I don't dispute the Orwellian description about today's world, I have to disagree about 'more hope'. I turned 18 in 1968. JFK had been assassinated about 5 years before. MLK and Bobby Kennedy were both killed off early that year; there were massive riots in hundreds of cities precisely because it seemed like hope had been killed. Nixon (ugh) was elected; Viet Nam was raging: 500,000 boots on the ground. The National Guard was gunning down students and cracking skulls all over the place. I was drafted by the army to be cannon fodder. (I don't think they are doing that yet)

No, it was not more hopeful. In my opinion, it was more bleak than today. However, I do agree that when the SHTF, it will be worse today.

My mother left my father and me when I was baby and became a drug addict. Eventually she died when I was 10. In addition my father was a bit difficult to live with and ended up dabbling in drugs himself later on. I was raised mostly by my grandparents, who were a lot better, but had their own idiosyncrasies, of course. I do not consider any of this to be "character building,"

You may later. Certainly your childhood had a huge effect on you. In my family 'character building experiences' was a darkly humorous euphemism for any crappy, painful, negative life event. That is how I meant it. Buried in the meaning of that phrase was "This too shall pass" along with "I shall overcome and rise above". I had pretty good parents even though I didn't totally appreciate it at the time.

]if anything it loaded me up with a bunch of programs and problems which I have to study and undo before I can actually do anything.

right on

If I incarnated at this time to accomplish a certain work, instead of starting at 0 and working my way up, I have to start at -100, due to the complications of the film. Most children do not survive these broken home situations, and mine was actually quite mild compared to many. If people as a rule were born from conscious relationships where the parents actually knew how to love each other and their children, there would be a lot less pain in our lives just to get to a point of being able to function as a decent human being. Sorry, I just don't buy that this sort of thing builds character any more than rape builds character. It just feeds the moon.

Yes, we can't change the circumstances of life, but we do have a choice in how we look at it; how we relate to it; how we remember it. I think this can only really be done by the higher self.

However, from all the things I see now, all my children are going to experience in life is endless suffering and sorrow where they will never know love nor peace, and it will either consume them or they will be numbed into submission as mindless automatons.

Hey, I hated kids when I was a young man. And I was tremendously negative. Life looked like a sick joke of a farce to me. As I look back , I can see that, for me anyway, while there is an aspect of truth to this, there was more going on at the time than that. I was also using my negative view of life as an excuse and a rationalization in so many ways. I am not saying I think this of you. You are probably way farther advanced than I ever was in my teens or twenties. Bravo to you, I say. Really.

This is especially true if my wife was not of the polar opposite type and was what Mouravieff calls a "free romance."

Here is where it gets tricky. If you have not hooked up with the perfect polar opposite, it does not necessarily mean you have a "free romance', OSIT. I think Mouravieff mentions 3 (?) acceptable souls for a wife. I will try to look that up.

It is simply unconscionable for me to bring a child into this sort of a situation

How different (worse) is it now, really, than say, the French Revolution, or WWI or pick your date? Trade today for the Crusades, anyone? Spanish Inquisition? Perhaps the Good Old Days never existed.

When the current cosmic environment makes this impossible, the most rational thing to do is to refuse to procreate.

For now this is true for you. But it is not necessarily true for everyone. And not all people who have kids are morons enthralled by the A Influenced General Law. All things ARE possible and DO exist. I heard that somewhere.

The only exception to this I can think of is if the child personally came to me in a vision or something and said something to the effect of, "I have a mission, I need you to be my dad."

I like that.

I think there is some element of truth to what you say here, but there is a middle ground that must be walked. I disagree that it's about removing responsibility; quite the opposite, it is taking responsibility for our actions in a conscious way and trying to see and understand all of the consequences. Getting involved in a relationship is one of the biggest choices one could make in ones spiritual life because of all the karmic debts that seem to be involved, for you, your partner, and any children involved, and perhaps several others who are tangentially involved in a relationship. The ripple effects can last several lifetimes and it is not something to be taken lightly.

Here is the deal - I don't take it lightly, and never did, and it still turned out goofy. (I would be glad to talk about it if you like.) We can try to make the perfect choices, the highest-minded choices but we are still in the F-ed up 3D STS world. I am not advocating giving in to some bad choice because we are doomed; but what if you tried your hardest to make the best choice and it still blew up in your face? You can't just walk away or kill yourself. You have to live it out the best you can and never give up.

I have this thought: "I have to control my choices so nothing bad happens" - but we are living in the place of 'sh*t happens'. To some greater or lesser degree, we are not in control, higher self at the helm not withstanding. Gurdjieff had his 2 car accidents. WTF? And what is control? STS. Oh yeah, a happy go lucky attitude helps! I am just trying to bust through the uber seriousness. It is an imperfect world. Like a bad car. The one with a busted tail-light and a loud muffler and ripped, stained, smelly upholstery. But it is ours! We have to drive that beast.

On the other hand, I can see obsessing over someone being your polar opposite and letting a good opportunity escape you because you were too invested in this particular theory. If you analyze someone for awhile and you realize that you're pretty much collinear and you like each other, and they exhibit the signs that Mouravieff talks about in his book, I don't see why I wouldn't take a chance on somebody like that. It may later turn out to be a mistake, but it was a good mistake made from a position of knowledge and striving to do the right thing. That would be learning a lesson in a positive way, instead of coming at it from ignorance, impatience, or other worse things.

Yeah!

So, lastly, why were we in such a hurry to learn and grow that we put ourselves in this predicament?

Well, if I was some naïve soul bouncing around in some utopian realm, I might come to the conclusion that life there was rather slow, predictable, and just all around "boring." This other thing looked like an adventure where the uncertainty creates the possibility of excitement. The commercials were just so cool. So then after you get there, the Lizzies close the door behind you and say, "Oh yeah, in the fine print it says you become our slaves. Now we will make you forget everything and you will turn into animals. See how much fun this is." And in that one instant you lament the fact that the commercial was "overhyped" and doesn't match the reality, and then you turn into an animal and forget everything. So that's my tongue-in-cheek version of how I think it happened.

Yeah, I think we got the picture. I am just kind of trying to harken back to the place, or state of being, we are trying to return to! Kind of group self-remembering.

I had a strong emotional reaction to a lot of the things that you said, but I did want to respond to the Devil's Advocate point of view because there were some points in there I majorly disagreed with.

It is a good thing to reflect on the true source of strong emotional reactions.

OK I tried my best. It is 2am - I have to get up in 4 hours and make breakfast for 2 of my kids. Peace, out.

 

[Miss.K]

Well I enjoyed the going overboard.
I think this discussion has been enlightening.

Unfortunately, it is very likely that I met mine 19 years ago, before being ready (we were so understanding of each other and not wanting to impose anything on the other that we let each other go), as every single thing I've read here about polar opposites checks out, even the feeling each other across the ocean in an almost physical way,(when having a short email contact almost 6 years ago, that we stopped quickly because it was really inappropriate that we felt so strongly while he was married to someone else)

And I now am one of those that will have to suck it up.
(and I can see how my traumas from my parents splitting up, causing my father to die from a broken heart, made me so scared of real good love that I panicked and screwed it up, though I even think I did send myself a sign through a strange old man that told me when I was 18 that when I was 26 I would meet my true love, but I'm a moron and didn't listen)

So I guess I'm left with saving the world, while he plays daddy, and that is sad (at least for me, as playing daddy at least have the parent child love, which I imagine is better than cat love, and saving the world is hard ungrateful work), but it might be the way it's supposed to be.
(he did tell me that he had known since childhood that he would marry and have kids, and then when old, would be with his true love, but I'm afraid the world won't stand for so long)

But that's why I'm so scared of doing EE, because it took me 3 years to (more or less) shut down the inappropriate feeling him across the ocean, that I'm not supposed to feel as it is inappropriate + there is a lot of grief and missing him, that took as long to suppress into a bearable level, (it sucks in the long run to wake up crying, before even having thought the usual "who am I, where am I" in the morning)
and EE and suppression don't go well together...

 

[luke wilson]

Neil, the hardest job is getting from -100 to 0. If you think you have some sort of job, its not something yet to happen, its what is already happening. Its highly unlikely the pre-incarnated you did not expect the conditions you faced in childhood.

I always say though, never fail to see the life around you. The world might be bleak and ruled by all sorts of nasty elements, but there is still a lot of life out there. Where there is life, there is joy, a reason to live, not just breath in and out, but to live. Its another job never to lose sight of that, you lose sight of it and you become lost. Its a watchtower that you must keep your eyes on.

Words from highly coveted experience, one of the very few I've been privy to.

 

[RedFox]

I know the dating game is a lie. It is a lie based on getting the "happy chemicals" from someone else so that you can get high and feel good about yourself.

I think this is an oversimplification. If a person is confronted by the presence of their polar opposite, aren't there going to be powerful feelings? And how are we supposed to know if it is the real deal or just another mirage?

The way I understand it is that when one has Worked on the self for long enough you are aware enough to know if things are "happy chemicals" or not.
I'm sure others more versed on the details could talk about higher and lower emotions - all I know is that there is a qualitative difference between the two that requires Work to be able to distinguish.
Without enough Work on the self, you can't know. You probably can't even describe the "powerful feelings" because you have no frame of reference beyond "happy chemicals" (I know that's all I have).

The things about relationships and especially when it comes to children, people naturally (and automatically) tend to be very defensive and emotional. I've seen it from several people in this thread in different ways.
Something runs into a persons beliefs about 'how things should be' and this can trigger justifications and escape from the reality that 99.9999% of humans on this planet do things 'because they feel good' - i.e. happy chemicals (this goes as far as being addicted to stress chemicals as well, which from the outside looks very unhappy - man is addicted to suffering).
And they do everything to avoid 'painful feelings' including justifying and narrating why what they did to get those happy chemicals was ok and not such a bad thing. This is the essence of mechanical man as G talks about it, and the psychology books have gone into detail about.

Facing up to who we are, where we find ourselves and what our responsibilities are without running from 'bad feelings' or justifying why 'good feelings' are ok (chemical addiction) is the starting point for Working on the self, so I thought it would be worth pointing it out.
Seeing things clearly comes before trying to do anything about it, hence the discussion about 'finding partners' among many others.

 

[BHelmet]

Well I enjoyed the going overboard.
I think this discussion has been enlightening.

Unfortunately, it is very likely that I met mine 19 years ago, before being ready (we were so understanding of each other and not wanting to impose anything on the other that we let each other go), as every single thing I've read here about polar opposites checks out, even the feeling each other across the ocean in an almost physical way,(when having a short email contact almost 6 years ago, that we stopped quickly because it was really inappropriate that we felt so strongly while he was married to someone else)

And I now am one of those that will have to suck it up.
(and I can see how my traumas from my parents splitting up, causing my father to die from a broken heart, made me so scared of real good love that I panicked and screwed it up, though I even think I did send myself a sign through a strange old man that told me when I was 18 that when I was 26 I would meet my true love, but I'm a moron and didn't listen)

I was kind of reluctant to log back in and see what dust I had kicked up and blowback I had initiated. Thank you, Miss K, for your candid honesty. It is comforting to me.

I can totally relate. I am pretty sure I blew it with my true polar being as well. It was as Mouravieff described - a meeting under good circumstances - first real love. I was 24. I became dragged down by the A influences. ie, how can I support another human when I could barely support myself? (I looked at relationship through that lens at the time) I was afraid. Afraid, really, of confronting my self, my doubts; past failures; potential future failures. Would she hurt me? Would I hurt her? Can she be trusted? Can I be trusted? Can I be honest with her when I lie to myself so much? So much vulnerability. I think meeting a real polar possible candidate (are we really sure?), since it IS like confronting your self, is very (no, make that VERY) challenging. I totally sold out and ran scared. I was not ready.

About 10 years later a woman walked into the office where I worked and we both about flew backwards against the walls. Happy chemicals? No, not like that; something much more profound. The universe was calling me again, saying here is your destiny. This time I listened without regard for all the A influence stuff. This time, I was ready. We have been married 29 years - 4 amazing kids (I know everybody says that but they really are). So many crosses to bear and mountains to climb, but through it all, so many great lessons to learn.

After 25 of those years, my first love contacted me out of the blue. I was curious - I shared all the polar stuff with her via email. She had married almost immediately after we parted ways. We arranged a meeting. i wanted to see. To know. At the end of our meeting we started to drive away in our cars from each other. I was thinking - wow - maybe she wasn't that true polar being after all. Suddenly, I became wracked with grief, the tears started and I had to pull over. She was behind me and pulled over too. We got out and held each other and sobbed convulsively for like 20 minutes. I mean REALLY, gushing tears, streams of snot running out of our noses - we were almost shouting through the sobs at each other about how we had blown it yet again - and WHY?!?

Whew - I learned that day how sorrow and grief can blow all the chakras wide open. I was lit up from my toes and feet rooted to the earth all the way into the stratosphere through the crown, like a columnar vortex of energy from the earth to the stars. I had a flight to catch and finally composed myself down to mild quivering and was able to drive on. And, yes, we agreed we had separate paths to honor and have stopped communicating.

I am not proud of any of this but I have forgiven myself. Yeah, suck it up... totally... really.

Good heavens. Sometimes I think my current wife is at least one of those acceptable alternates. Sometimes I think maybe she is a true polar opposite. But other times I think I married a robot committed to sleep. Or she could even be a sister soul which would be another massive complication. I can't say I really know. (Geminis can do that to you) But I have learned so much now, maybe in some other incarnation or existence I will recognize my polar being if that dynamic still goes on. Or maybe I don't even really need to, now.

It comes back to acceptance of what is. Can I objectively see what is and accept it for what it is? In spite of my waffling sounding comments, I think I can.

Even if it is a can of worms.

Life goes on.

This is why humor is so important to me.

And anyway - calling life a can of worms is ... well, why call it anything? It is what it is and it is different for everyone depending on that beloved learning curve.

 

[Menna]

After 25 of those years, my first love contacted me out of the blue. I was curious - I shared all the polar stuff with her via email. She had married almost immediately after we parted ways. We arranged a meeting. i wanted to see. To know. At the end of our meeting we started to drive away in our cars from each other. I was thinking - wow - maybe she wasn't that true polar being after all. Suddenly, I became wracked with grief, the tears started and I had to pull over. She was behind me and pulled over too. We got out and held each other and sobbed convulsively for like 20 minutes. I mean REALLY, gushing tears, streams of snot running out of our noses - we were almost shouting through the sobs at each other about how we had blown it yet again - and WHY?!?

Whew - I learned that day how sorrow and grief can blow all the chakras wide open. I was lit up from my toes and feet rooted to the earth all the way into the stratosphere through the crown, like a columnar vortex of energy from the earth to the stars. I had a flight to catch and finally composed myself down to mild quivering and was able to drive on. And, yes, we agreed we had separate paths to honor and have stopped communicating.

Sounds like a rare life experience full of valuable impressions ... Cheers

Sometimes I think maybe she is a true polar opposite. But other times I think I married a robot committed to sleep

Regardless of polar opposites or not - polar opposites are still human.

Your example is part of what I was trying to say pages ago. Even if one meets their polar opposite if well rounded "work" has not been done internally and externally - seeing life objectively/experiencing its dynamics, don't know themselves, "not ready" then regardless of polar opposite or not a successful relationship with yourself, life and another doesn't happen by accident. It is very rare in present day for two people to marry in their first relationship.

 

[Miss.K]

Thanks for sharing BHelmet
Nice to know I'm not the only one to suck it up :)

When I met the Man, when young, we fell in love and there was a huge attraction, but we were also the best friends each had ever had. We only lied to each other when we lied to ourselves, and I had (have) never tried anything so honest, kind, and un-possessive. We really liked each other in a very uncomplicated way. (though my life was complicated)

I was in a relationship at the time, and so we tried to be only friends, but it was rather impossible, and we ended up sleeping together from time to time (sex was also uncomplicated, very natural and good) so for about 6 months that it took me to untangle myself from my relationship, I was a cheater, though mostly emotionally, as I really tried to not to, and didn't think my boyfriend deserved it (and was traumatized due to my mother leaving my father for another man and my father dying)

When I left my boyfriend, I was pretty much a mess. It seemed to me I was repeating my parents story, and I thought that it was all just psychological BS on my part. I had a lot of guilt, that I confused with having a broken heart from leaving my boyfriend, and I thought that I should really not enter a new relationship, as I should rather "get a life", than living out my parental traumas, so I lied to myself and thus the Man, and said I only wanted to be friends. (I think I was also scared that the honesty, kindness, and un-possessiveness would go away if we were in a real relationship) So I said that he should pursue other options.
We were friends and I knew he was popular with women, which I didn't mind, as it is easy to not be jealous when the heart knows one is number one.
But then he flirted with a friend of mine at a party, and that hurt, though I in no way wanted to admit that to anybody, least myself.
About a week later I meet a man, with whom there was a HUGE chemical attraction, and who were in many ways a type that I thought was more my type, and looked like a young Poul Newman, and played guitar and everything, and I thought "this it it!" And though I still said the "I don't want a boyfriend" mantra, I was trapped.

Me and the Man stayed friends, he tried to have a relationship with my friend, that didn't work out. I had increasing trouble with my new boyfriend, that though in many ways a wonderful man, was totally incompatible with me, and with whom I couldn't be myself, and always had to be careful not to hurt his feelings, by my calling a spade a spade (he got nervous and shut off emotionally when I shared my thoughts, totally opposite the Man who really enjoyed hearing my thoughts, gave his thoughts on my thoughts back, and wanted to hear more).

Though the chemicals kept me and my new boyfriend together (we tried to break up many many times, but couldn't break the spell, and he had/has the most beautiful soulful voice I think I've ever heard, that was impossible to resist when we had broken up, and I was all sad, and he called me all sad, and suggested that we should not break up after all) He wasn't a bad person, just totally screwed up emotionally (as was I), and he suffered as much from our relationship as I did, and we did grow to love each other behind the chemicals.

After 2 years, the Man left the country to try to get a life, as it wasn't so great after all being my friend while I was in a new relationship, and the light went out in my life, and I haven't really felt happy since, though I didn't connect the two things, and just thought that it was due to my problems with my boyfriend, and that the world had started to go mad, and become more evil than usual.

We promised each other to stay friends, but soon after he met his now wife, and she heard him talking on the phone with me, and didn't like that at all, so we stopped having contact.

I didn't think much about him the following 10 years, and didn't think that he was a Polar man, though when I thought of him, I thought it was a shame that we couldn't stay friends as he was the best friend I ever had.

So 10 years later, about 3 months after I left my boyfriend, (this time for good as I had fully realized that it wasn't a question of if we loved each other, it was that we weren't good for each other)
I was thinking about where all my friends had gone while I had been busy having a problematic relationship, and made contact with some, and thought it would be OK to write the Man, as the romance was so long ago that now we might be able to have some mail contact without his wife feeling threatened.
But as soon as contact was made, I could feel him when he thought of me in an semi physical way. I would innocently be sitting at my desk drawing as usually, and a wave of him would hit me so it almost knocked me off my chair, and soon after there was an email in my mailbox. I don't know if it was the same for him as we didn't talk about it, (it was just "how is life now, what's your kids name" and such) but after a few mails, and a couple of weeks where I had walked around my house so many times I had tread a path, while wondering how much emotion a human body can survive, before breaking due to too high voltage energy going through it, he said that he didn't think it was good for him (and his family) that we had contact, so I guess it was similar.

He kept thinking of me though, which I really thought was unfair, and I even took a big knife and stabbed the air like a crazy person, to tell him to go away. If we couldn't have contact, then he should stay away, and give me a chance to stop feeling him.

It helped a little, though he still thought of me, it was less strong, so I could pretend it was just my imagination, and find comfort in explaining to myself that I had just gone insane.
I poured my energy into drawing day and night, and kept myself busy that way, and after about a year, I actually thought that it was over, and that I had survived, so as I needed to make money (I didn't have enough paid work) I looked at his Linked in page to see how to write a CV as he has always been better at such things than me, and I had no idea at the time that Linked in shows who as been looking, but a couple of hours later while innocently cooking dinner, the wave of him thinking of me hit me again, as strongly as ever. And also I found out, that he had just around that time, published some work containing (I'm pretty sure) a coded love letter to me.

The psychic love affair continued, and I tried saying to myself that I made it up (I didn't because sometimes when he didn't think of me I missed him so much that I tried to invent it, and it didn't work at all) I tried to analyze the situation as a psychologist who didn't believe in psychic connections across the ocean would, and explaining it with psychological problems. I tried to shut it off, I tried to accept, I asked the stars (they always said yes to the question if he was really thinking of me, and always no to the question if it meant that he was getting divorced, and usually it's too early to say, and sometimes yes sometimes no, to the question if I'd ever see him just once again before dying)

I worked and worked like crazy (and got a lot better at drawing, which is good) to have an outlet, and was noticing that I had become more psychic than usually, with others as well, had some prophetic dreams that were not personal, feeling when people thought of me (like feeling a kind female hand stroking my hair and a moment after a kind female friend called on the phone and such)

I started to participate a bit here, read the Redirect thread, and though not writing anything down, but just going through the exercise in my head,
I had work at the time, so was working all day, while the thinking through the Redirect exercise started tears constantly running from my eyes, that didn't feel like normal crying, every waking hour for a whole week (it's hard to see the drawings through that much water)

Around the same time that I asked about Astrology here, and then weirdness really started. Touching the keyboard felt electric, and blue whitish light (not visible to eyes, but to mind) came up through the keyboard, like some totally far out Back from the Future film.

At the same time I felt semi physically, and "saw" (though not through my eyes) little puppylike creatures (I would imagine it was everybody who read my posts in the thread) sniffing me, first on arms and legs, but later more and more came sniffing, until they were covering my whole body, And it felt as I imagine it would feel to swim in the middle of a fish shoal, all made of some blue/white transparent light.
Some were not puppy/fish but these really really tall pillars of light, and they stayed more politely a couple of meters from me and looked for a little while before leaving again, one of the pillars caught me looking back at him/her, and retreated quickly as not wanting to impose. At some point my computer broke down and trying to get it to work again the "wait screen" came, though WAIT was in huge letters filling the whole screen, (usually the letters are not so big when I have gotten the wait screen) and I wasn't sure what it was I should wait with, or who said it, but decided I better keep what happened to myself for the moment.

It wasn't unpleasant, just really really weird (and a bit hard to concentrate on work) though at some point someone with really cold hands started grabbing my left arm all the time, which was annoying and gave me a head ache.
I decided that I had to limit my checking in, as it was a bit too much weirdness for me. It had increased to a point where the energy felt as if my room was full of people all talking at the same time, and my whole body covered with sniffing water puppies, so I had said to myself not to check in before the day after. Then suddenly what I would describe as an atom bomb, though not evil, but calm and good, wiped all the activity from my room, and I thought, OK that was something big that happened there, and noted the time, to check in the day after and see what had happened, and it turned out that it was the exact time when Laura had responded.

My question of astrology didn't matter much at that point, the thread stopped being active, some puppies came sniffing still during the next 3 weeks, but less and less.

After that I could feel when anybody read something I posted on facebook, or anybody who thought or talked about me, I mostly couldn't tell who, but would get a peppermintish feeling on my skin. I decided that I couldn't work if I had to read a whole book a day, that it seemed I would have to, to be able to participate here, and went back to being a lurker. Though thinking that might mean I would have to live under a red sky for 300.000 years there wasn't much I could do about it if wanting to make a living at the same time, and so I decided to throw away all my things and go to Spain, to at least have some sunshine for as long as possible before Ice age and comets would be the end for me this time around. Since being in a big city, the psychic abilities are less, though still there from time to time, and I think all the people around provide a filter with their emotional noise.

Of cause I think it is interesting what happened, but also a bit weird for me. I don't consider myself a highly advanced being, so I'm not sure what all that weirdness is for. I like simple clear things, more than feeling all kinds of things I don't really know what is.

I'm probably mad to post this, and sorry for the length, but I share because I have to do something about my refusing to do EE, as I think it would be very good for me to do, and so I thought that since it is mostly fear of feeling the Man too much, or the grief of the loss. It might be better to let the cat out of the bag, though you might all think I'm crazy...and I might be, but in that case there might be a cure :)

 

[BHelmet]

Sometimes I think maybe she is a true polar opposite. But other times I think I married a robot committed to sleep

Regardless of polar opposites or not - polar opposites are still human.

Your example is part of what I was trying to say pages ago. Even if one meets their polar opposite if well rounded "work" has not been done internally and externally - seeing life objectively/experiencing its dynamics, don't know themselves, "not ready" then regardless of polar opposite or not a successful relationship with yourself, life and another doesn't happen by accident.

I have to totally agree. The playing field is fraught with obstacles. And one of those is that we can think we 'know' when all we 'know' is more than we used to know and so it can seem like we are enlightened. Kind of like Luke Skywalker thinking he was ready to face Vader before he really was. (and so life, being the generous giver of lessons that it is, gives us another opportunity to fail and then learn)

Here is another example/pitfall which also addresses some of the theorizing on how one knows if one is in the presence of the true polar being. Say, you reach a certain level of experience and awareness. You have been mucking around in the "A"world and characters and striving for consciousness - you are cognizant of the "B" world. Given that, according to M, we have 987 facets, the permutations are quite astronomical. You meet someone with, say, an 85% or 88% or even 90% congruence of polar facets. That person is going to jump out of the crowd and the feeling is going to be very electric and 'different' than 'happy chemicals'. But still, it is not quite the match the deep inner soul craves.

Kind of like clothes shopping. "Wow - this looks great! It fits really well and looks good and is my style- I'LL BUY IT!"

and yet...

Somehow, Hmm- Imagine what it would be like to meet yourself? What prejudices do you have against your own characteristics? to meet a person who crystalizes all your strengths and weaknesses? If a person is strong where I am weak - it can be intimidating. I can feel '"Less than". A lot to overcome. So we come back to your statement - we have to REALLY know ourself and accept ourself. And be consciously ready. AND be a good shopper. How do we 'try on' a garment in the clothing store of human partners without creating an even more tangled web? Certainly holding off on the sex part and getting to know the other person is key. Like an old comic used to say: "Easy to say; deeficult to do."

As to the accident part, good point. We have to be aware of the possibility of polar beings and also actively prepare for it and, in some sense create it. But there is still a random aspect - some things happen when you least expect it and don't show up in the way you think they will. Anticipation can kill the whole deal as it sets up a string of expectations which can deceive.

 

[BHelmet]

Thanks for sharing BHelmet
Nice to know I'm not the only one to suck it up :)

When I met the Man... little puppylike creatures ...I'm probably mad to post this, and sorry for the length, but I share because I have to do something about my refusing to do EE, as I think it would be very good for me to do, and so I thought that since it is mostly fear of feeling the Man too much, or the grief of the loss. It might be better to let the cat out of the bag, though you might all think I'm crazy...and I might be, but in that case there might be a cure :)

WOW?! Thank you for your candor and willingness to share. A lot of lessons there. Sometimes it is not good to wallow in the soap opera but other times it is good for catharsis. Other people's stories can be quite humbling to hear.

Not sure about the EE part. If you think/know/feel it would be good, then why hold back?

No cure for being human that I know of, short of 5D.

 

[Miss.K]

Thanks for sharing BHelmet
Nice to know I'm not the only one to suck it up :)

When I met the Man... little puppylike creatures ...I'm probably mad to post this, and sorry for the length, but I share because I have to do something about my refusing to do EE, as I think it would be very good for me to do, and so I thought that since it is mostly fear of feeling the Man too much, or the grief of the loss. It might be better to let the cat out of the bag, though you might all think I'm crazy...and I might be, but in that case there might be a cure :)

WOW?! Thank you for your candor and willingness to share. A lot of lessons there. Sometimes it is not good to wallow in the soap opera but other times it is good for catharsis. Other people's stories can be quite humbling to hear.


Not sure about the EE part. If you think/know/feel it would be good, then why hold back?

yeah I didn't really explain that part. After the totally weird experience with interacting here (It only happened then, not since) I felt cured for a while and started hoping that I would get better. Maybe even getting a life instead of being this hermit weirdo that worked frantically all the time and had a semi physical lover.
Then I started doing EE and after having practiced a little, the first time I did it right, and fell asleep during POTS, I woke up in the morning feeling really good for the first time since don't know when, so I thought, great! and then the next time I did it, all the terrible longing, and terrible grief came back, and I couldn't get myself to do it again, cause I really didn't want more of that after more than 3 years of it, and just having thought it was over.

And also I think I am a little scared that it will enhance psychic abilities more (though they would be practical to have enhanced if other means of communication breaks down, as end of the world and trying to find people scenario) but I don't find it very practical to be able to feel the Man thinking of me, and if I'm going to end up seeing/feeling blue light puppies and such all the time, I dunno, it's a bit weird, and I would rather like to be smiling with people in the same room, and getting physical hugs, communicate with voices and words, and maybe a real life puppy too, than feeling everybody in the world. (it's so science fiction, and I like children books, or romance novels)

And I know at the same time that my fears are rather stupid, so I try to tell about them, as sometimes that helps when one is being stupid.

No cure for being human that I know of, short of 5D.

Yes, but that's the thing, is that really human to have semi physical puppies sniffing one, or feeling these things?
Though it might be the only way out, to become semi physical, I like physical (apart from pain and discomfort and decay)
And once I died in a dream and became a light in the universe with no human problems or emotions, and though in a way it was pleasant, though pleasant is a feeling, and they weren't there anymore (lights in the universe probably don't have hormones) not that I didn't care either, but it was very different from being human, and it wasn't boring either, as that is a feeling too, but hmmm
-if I could have it my way I would have loving humans in the same room as me, and real puppies and horses, and instruments that the loving humans played together and singing in the evenings, and maybe start painting too.
So I can see the value in becoming very knowledgeable, and understanding everything, and that not getting what one wants often makes one a better person and so, and that it is interesting that it is possible to feel things that are physically impossible, though quantum physically possible, but...(shut up Miss K)

Maybe I should just get a real life puppy, and see if cat+dog works better than cat alone..