finding partners...

[RedFox]

Its discomfort, that feeling, like a nagging feeling, its making peace with that feeling. But by definition, its a feeling of discomfort, that's how it feels. How can you make peace with something that holds that definition, unless you transform it to hold a different definition. That's the problem. Do you change the external environment so you are somewhere where that feeling is neutralized, do you numb your feeling center so you simply don't feel the feeling itself. What do you do?

From what I've been learning and practicing recently it seems to boil down to the following:
1) Awareness of said feelings. Which comes from noticing how you avoid them, what automatic behavior runs and what emotions may be hidden under that. How do you habitually numb yourself or avoid those feelings?
2) Practice observing thoughts attached to feelings and feelings themselves.
3) Acceptance of the thoughts/feelings as is, without judgement (this I think is an example of being truly loving). As G said, first observe but don't try to change anything.

Then I think you can start to change things externally from the right foundations.
If you just react to the external (and want to change it instantly) you've missed the steps above and are subject to mechanic forces (unobserved thoughts and emotions).

Incidentally the more this is practiced, the less you project and the more you can 'see' others (because you can now see what you would have projected onto them mechanically) - which is kind of important for a healthy relationship!

I wonder how integral this polar opposite business is to the Work, even though it sounds nice if you could ever participate in it. If your aim is to meet "The One," then I guess it's fairly important. What if your aim is just to know yourself and become master of your machine? Do these two aims generally complement each other? A rhetorical question.

It may be rhetorical but it seems pertinent to this thread in the context of the Work on oneself.
I don't remember the exact quote or who it was from, but my understanding of polar opposites in the context of the Work is that once you've reached a point of learning about yourself (and the same for your opposite), you meet in order for you both to progress further.
So my understanding is "finding the One" is not the aim here, but is potentially part of the natural progression of the Work.
I also get the impression (perhaps mistakenly?) that Working on yourself also helps your polar opposite develop even if they are on the other side of the planet and you don't know they exist. I've seen examples of this within the group as a whole - many people having the same understanding develop at once.

Having said that I may be wrong, and from the above quote from M it seems that this happens in stages.

I think the quotes highlight the seriousness one should consider entering into an intimate relationship, just as someone should consider the seriousness of doing the Work. I sure as heck don't want to be adding to anyone's karmic debt!
In the end seriousness is about seeing the truth of the situation and stripping away the lies, step by step as we refine our understanding and ability to DO and BE.
Seriousness without emotional awareness devolves into black and white or authoritarian thinking though, so back to the first points.

I suppose its the discomfort that's uncomfortable if that makes sense. Its not loneliness. Its the effect created from the contrast to your peers. 90%-95% of the time I don't feel lonely and the loneliness I do feel, when I feel it, is mostly created by lack of aim or meaning in life. Its created in those moments your life feels hollow. The other time it is felt is when you are alone in a room full of people who are together. You know, when you are the odd wheel.
[..]
Anyway, yeah, on a serious note, it sucks... well its not comfortable.

I know exactly what you mean luke.
I have a new understanding of why the Work has a capital W because actually learning to be OK and accepting of my own emotions (i.e. have a relationship with myself) is one of the hardest things I've had to do

 

[Miss.K]

Thanks for putting that together Neil

However love always remains the aim of life, even for someone who is ignorant,

And I who always thought it was because I'm ignorant :D

But we must be careful: they should sacrifice everything which is theirs. For if, esoterically speaking, man has the right to make sacrifices, he has no right to accept them. An agreed sacrifice abolishes karma, a sacrifice that is accepted multiplies it.

I'm not sure I'm understanding what he means by accepting sacrifice here.
If someone who understands it could give an example in language for dummies, I'd be much grateful

 

[luke wilson]

Thanks Redfox. Thanks Neil for putting that together. I read Gnosis a long time ago so nice to get a refresher.

My gut tells me Mouravieff is mainly talking truth but I think as the Cs say, he has a heavy religious bend.

Unlike Redfox, I sadly think your Polar opposite, if one exists, can appear at any point in the film. It all depends on the individual script which may differ from person to person, furthermore, if you create enough distortion to the original script then this may also alter when they show up. To complicate matters further, there is no way of objectively knowing, just because you have an attraction to someone doesn't mean much. Plus given the pressure of the general law, where everyone is looking for the one and being impatient about it, expecting things to happen as if by a timetable, then I think you have further complications. Personally all when i was reading about those absurd situations mouravieff was talking about, i couldn't help but think back to earlier posts where some people were talking about experience. I presume romantic and coupled experience that according to M would create absurd situations but according to others would create a purifying of the centres.

I think part of the problem is that we live our lives essentially based on 2 scripts. One is this invisible esoteric script M is talking about, where you don't really know the script per se. The other is the one that you know through peers and society e.g. go to school, go to uni, start experimenting sexually around 14, lose virginity before 18, date for awhile, get married before 30, have kids, buy a house by mid 30s, get a job etc etc. You know the script I'm talking about.

I'm just not sure that the other film follows this script and who knows what distortions are created by superimposing 2 separate scripts into 1.

I think the term sacrifice simply means you have to step outside yourself, but you cant ask anyone to do that. If you think about it, we are our biggest prisons. In polar opposite terms, i think both have to be able to step outside themselves if that makes sense. That's a big ask on anyone as yourself is all you've ever known, the thing that you would die defending. Hopefully that makes sense. Well that's how i think of it.

 

[kalibex]

... I don't know of you ever had this, on the last day at school, everyone leaves and you are the last. In that moment when you are alone in a deserted place that was not to long ago full of life and excitement of people waiting to be picked up, talking about upcoming vacations etc. I don't know if that makes sense.

Its discomfort, that feeling, like a nagging feeling, its making peace with that feeling.

You mean that feeling that the party is going on, it's just right around the corner, that's where everyone is, and you know that even as you hurry after it all, you'll always just miss it? But you try, and sure enough, all you see is the next corner, around which the party has just disappeared...

 

[Miss.K]

I think the term sacrifice simply means you have to step outside yourself, but you cant ask anyone to do that. If you think about it, we are our biggest prisons. In polar opposite terms, i think both have to be able to step outside themselves if that makes sense. That's a big ask on anyone as yourself is all you've ever known, the thing that you would die defending. Hopefully that makes sense. Well that's how i think of it.

I think understand the sacrifice part, but not the accepting sacrifice part.

But we must be careful: they should sacrifice everything which is theirs. For if, esoterically speaking, man has the right to make sacrifices, he has no right to accept them. An agreed sacrifice abolishes karma, a sacrifice that is accepted multiplies it.

The way I understand that is something like lets say I had 3 babies and a husband who is a good person but not a soulmate. Then I meet the soulmate, feel terribly attracted, and though I'd gladly sacrifice anything I have to be with him, sacrificing my babies (or my babies need for growing up with parents who put the children before their romantic urges) would not be something that was mine to sacrifice, as their life is theirs, not mine..?

But then accepting a sacrifice, I don't understand what means, unless it means that if my soulmate were the one with 3 babies, and he sacrificed their need for having a father that put their needs before his romantic urges, and I accepted that, then that would give me some real bad karma...?

But I think might be totally off in the way I understand it?

 

[yayan]

Thank you all for the discussion in this thread, since this is also one of the topic that I am interested in.

I haven't read all the messages in this thread. But I just stumbled upon this message from RedFox and it reminds me of one session from 7 June 2014.

It may be rhetorical but it seems pertinent to this thread in the context of the Work on oneself.
I don't remember the exact quote or who it was from, but my understanding of polar opposites in the context of the Work is that once you've reached a point of learning about yourself (and the same for your opposite), you meet in order for you both to progress further.
So my understanding is "finding the One" is not the aim here, but is potentially part of the natural progression of the Work.
I also get the impression (perhaps mistakenly?) that Working on yourself also helps your polar opposite develop even if they are on the other side of the planet and you don't know they exist. I've seen examples of this within the group as a whole - many people having the same understanding develop at once.

Here's the excerpt..

...

(Tomiro) Well, I have a personal question. We discussed earlier here with the group the situation about my partner and her girlfriend. And I'm kind of wondering if moving in with her and her children and selling my apartment could be a good idea for being able to serve others or if there's a kind of program running here. Maybe I'm not seeing everything here.

A: Review what we have said. Are there things you could do to make a sudden change easier?

Q: (L) You mentioned selling an apartment. Why don't you sell your apartment and just rent where you are for the time being? In other words, lighten your load, but at the same time, make no super-drastic changes.

(Tomiro) Mm-hmm.

(L) Just kind of be ready, like Cassius Clay [Muhammad Ali]: float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

(Pierre) Be ready to move.

(Perceval) But his suggestion was that he do that, but move in with his girlfriend and her children.

(Jefferson) She's pregnant.

(L) She's pregnant. Is it your fault?

(Tomiro) No.

(L) No??

(Jefferson) In vitro.

(L) Whose idea was that?

(Tomiro) It was hers.

(Perceval) Who's the father?

(Tomiro) It's in vitro.

(Jefferson) Sperm bank, and she did it unilaterally, without consulting with him.

(L) I'd stay away from somebody who does things like that.

(Perceval) How long have you been with your girlfriend?

(Tomiro) Maybe a year, two years.

(Pierre) How do you feel about what she did?

(Atreides) So your girlfriend went and got pregnant by another man?

(L) No, she went to a sperm bank.

(Atreides) Well, it doesn't matter how she got the sperm in her.

(Pierre) How do you feel Tomiro about this event?

(Tomiro) Not really good.

(Possibility of Being) What keeps you with her?

(Tomiro) She is kind of stubborn. She had made a decision that she wanted a child before she was 35.

(L) Doesn't she already have children?

(Tomiro) She has an adopted child.

A: Pity those who pity.

Q: (L) That if you're in a relationship because of pity, or you stay because of pity, then you are to be pitied.

(Tomiro) Mm-hmm.

(Perceval) Or maybe even that she pities, because an adopted child, maybe she pities herself or whatever...

(L) There's just pity all over the place here.

(Perceval) And the point of "pity those who pity", it doesn't mean to that we SHOULD pity them. It means it's not a good thing. People who pity is a bad deal.

(Andromeda) Don't be led by pity to do things.

(L) Okay, that's a tough situation.

(Perceval) Yeah, I would say...

(L) I'd run like hell, and I know a thing or two. But you're still young and loaded with hormones. I can't tell you anything.

(Perceval) I would say that in terms of the idea of keeping yourself free and available to do things and move, I would say that moving in with her is a "tie that binds".

(L) That's a bear trap.

(Pierre) And does she want you to recognize the children as yours?

(Tomiro) Well, I guess... I'm not really sure about that. I guess she wants me to be their father, or raise them...

(L) But you don't know?!

(Pierre) That's the next step: to lock you in.

(Chu) It doesn't look like you have a very open relationship if you don't know.

(L) Oy vey. Let's move on to the next question. You've gotta work this out.

(Perceval) Sounds like she's making all the decisions, and you're just a passive bystander, ya know? Even though you might think you're not. Women are smarter than men in that regard, at least.

(Possibility of Being) You can ask the forum for more feedback.

(L) Yeah, why don't you ask about this on the forum?

(Tomiro) Yeah, I'm planning on doing that.

(Perceval) She's got a plan for you, and you'll find out about it as you go along.

(L) You don't have a need to know. Ya know, I have a girlfriend. She's in her 70's now, and I'm in my 60's. We've been friends since we were in our 20's and she was in her 30's. She had 3 teenage boys. And I was kind of like their big sister. And they sat down one day and asked me for advice. And I told them: If you can't keep your zipper up, use protection. Because nearly every girl out there is looking to get pregnant so that she can lock a guy into a relationship or responsibility, or an obligation. Most women are extremely unhappy in their family lives, their home lives... They've got this whole nurturing instinct, this baby-making instinct that's really powerful. A woman's baby-making instinct is as powerful as a guy's "I gotta get me some" instinct. Trust me. So, if you know how powerful your urges in that direction are, just imagine that women's urges to make the baby and entrap the man are just as powerful. So, you have to keep that in mind.

(Perceval) It's a match made on Earth! It's what keeps the species going.

(L) It's the General Law. What are ya'll whispering about the in the background there?

(Aragorn) I was saying that the "psychic draining" comment is really bothering me, and if there's time I'd like to ask...

(L) Go ahead.

(Aragorn) Is this intentional, and what can I do about it?

A: No, not intentional. It rarely is. Knowledge and awareness and standing up for yourself at crucial moments should help.

Q: (Aragorn) Okay. Thanks.

(L) Alright. Carry on!

(Perceval) What about Seppo Ilmarinen? He's getting antsy!

(Seppo Ilmarinen) My question is about why do I have so many blank spots in my childhood? Childhood memories?

A: Abuse can tend to aid dissociation. Writing may help.

Q: (Breton) I guess we're familiar with the writing exercises.

(Seppo Ilmarinen) Yeah, I've been doing those.

A: Not just "the writing exercises!" We mean writing down your life, and do it with the hand, not the keyboard. You will be surprised at how much returns to memory, especially if you allow a bit of automaticity. Also, SRT is recommended.

Q: (Seppo Ilmarinen) Thank you. I've booked a session.

(Breton) Are we getting near the end?

(L) Are we getting near the end of the questions?

(Jefferson) I have a question if it's alright. Considering my very complicated home situation with many children and ex-wife and potential health or mental blocks, the question is where can I focus my energy in terms of wage work, and the work on the self to best serve the fellowship and my family?

(L) Can you break that down into two questions? I'd say that...

A: Grow where you are planted.

Q: (Jefferson) I wonder if I'm being a detriment to my children's and ex-wife's...

A: You lack a lot of self-discipline. It will do you good to be responsible and see things through. Stop trying to find ways to force others to be responsible for your choices.

Q: (L) Next?

(Breton) Anybody else have...? Well, only one that I have was kind of the wrap-up question if that's okay. Do the C's have any message for the Finnish group, or something that we haven't asked about that maybe we should know?

A: If you have a strong bond, and one of you comes to this locator, it will ensure that the others have a magnetic connection. Tomiro, there is someone for you, but she cannot free herself from the tangles of her life if you cannot and thereby transmit the strength to her.

So, maybe this is the session that RedFox refered to?

My understanding is that in the above session the C's implicitly saying that Tomiro's current girlfriend is not The One for him, and there is someone (polar opposite?) for him. And that to meet her, first, he need to untangle himself from his current girlfriend.

 

[luke wilson]

Kalibex, yeah, something like that. There is abit of a void there that you are trying to fill. That feeling.

Miss K, I don't really know. Uhm, in that baby situation, if you sacrificed your kids/husband who lets say for arguments sake you had a functional relationship with, for this new novel person who lets be honest you don't really even know is your soulmate, then if this person knew what you have done and accepted it, that would multiply the karma. In that situation, you would have to have a non-romantic relationship. I don't think it always has to be romantic, as people could already be in accidentally formed relationships. And ultimately there is no way of really knowing if someone is a polar opposite. Btw, phrase of the day "accidentally formed relationship"... LOL

I think the whole accepting sacrifice thing is situation specific and you would know if you are doing something that is right or wrong, given your other responsibilities and their other responsibilities. As Neil said, being already in an accidentally formed relationship complicates things if/when the real deal polar opposite makes an appearance (though neither of you would have any objective way of knowing who you are to each other).

Basically, the moral of the story is don't be doing crazy sh*t if you don't want to come up against a crazy situation.

That's my attempt at an answer.

 

[RedFox]

So, maybe this is the session that RedFox refered to?

Thanks yanz, that's exactly what I was looking for.

 

[Miss.K]

Kalibex, yeah, something like that. There is abit of a void there that you are trying to fill. That feeling.

Miss K, I don't really know. Uhm, in that baby situation, if you sacrificed your kids/husband who lets say for arguments sake you had a functional relationship with, for this new novel person who lets be honest you don't really even know is your soulmate, then if this person knew what you have done and accepted it, that would multiply the karma. In that situation, you would have to have a non-romantic relationship. I don't think it always has to be romantic, as people could already be in accidentally formed relationships. And ultimately there is no way of really knowing if someone is a polar opposite. Btw, phrase of the day "accidentally formed relationship"... LOL

I think the whole accepting sacrifice thing is situation specific and you would know if you are doing something that is right or wrong, given your other responsibilities and their other responsibilities. As Neil said, being already in an accidentally formed relationship complicates things if/when the real deal polar opposite makes an appearance (though neither of you would have any objective way of knowing who you are to each other).

Basically, the moral of the story is don't be doing crazy sh*t if you don't want to come up against a crazy situation.

That's my attempt at an answer.

Thanks Luke :)

To the "I don't think it always has to be romantic" I would think that no matter if refraining from touch or sweet talk, there's no way around that it would be romantic, so the only way in a situation like that, if one does not want to sacrifice other people for ones love, would be to not have any contact (no conscious energetic contact either), suck it up, and wait for next life (or perhaps for the kids to grow up)

 

[lainey]

I don't remember the exact quote or who it was from, but my understanding of polar opposites in the context of the Work is that once you've reached a point of learning about yourself (and the same for your opposite), you meet in order for you both to progress further.
So my understanding is "finding the One" is not the aim here, but is potentially part of the natural progression of the Work.
I also get the impression (perhaps mistakenly?) that Working on yourself also helps your polar opposite develop even if they are on the other side of the planet and you don't know they exist. I've seen examples of this within the group as a whole - many people having the same understanding develop at once.

That's the way I see it too. I believe there are separate lessons we must learn and once they are learned then we may find our polar opposite. If we are stuck then our opposites are stuck. To work on yourself is to give to another as well. Maybe that's why some aspects of the work are so difficult because our opposite is struggling too, a limbic resonance (if that's the right term?) between us. So super efforts are required on both parts.

I think part of the problem is that we live our lives essentially based on 2 scripts. One is this invisible esoteric script M is talking about, where you don't really know the script per se. The other is the one that you know through peers and society e.g. go to school, go to uni, start experimenting sexually around 14, lose virginity before 18, date for awhile, get married before 30, have kids, buy a house by mid 30s, get a job etc etc. You know the script I'm talking about.

I'm just not sure that the other film follows this script and who knows what distortions are created by superimposing 2 separate scripts into 1.

Or perhaps the two scripts are 1 script, it just depends on your awareness. When you become aware of the second superimposed on the first you have more power to change the ending? Otherwise the movie just plays over and over, life after life.

 

[lilyalic]

I don't remember the exact quote or who it was from, but my understanding of polar opposites in the context of the Work is that once you've reached a point of learning about yourself (and the same for your opposite), you meet in order for you both to progress further.
So my understanding is "finding the One" is not the aim here, but is potentially part of the natural progression of the Work.
I also get the impression (perhaps mistakenly?) that Working on yourself also helps your polar opposite develop even if they are on the other side of the planet and you don't know they exist. I've seen examples of this within the group as a whole - many people having the same understanding develop at once.

That's the way I see it too. I believe there are separate lessons we must learn and once they are learned then we may find our polar opposite. If we are stuck then our opposites are stuck. To work on yourself is to give to another as well. Maybe that's why some aspects of the work are so difficult because our opposite is struggling too, a limbic resonance (if that's the right term?) between us. So super efforts are required on both parts.

What about if it's not about waiting to find that certain someone whom would be considered your polar opposite? Well, I've just thought of it as if you're already involved with another, then the most important thing to do is to let the other learn their separate lessons, not involving yourself in their affairs in terms of their "lesson profile" - not involving yourself in any affairs of theirs at all actually. Which I guess pretty much describes the whole collinear relationship, it seems a lot more like a loving friendship. It's only recently I really understood what that meant, after being in relationships that were all too much involved and all about projecting etc. And with what RedFox said about observing yourself/feelings/thoughts in order to stop projecting onto the other, it's a real eye opener and hit of reality when you start to pull back your projections and genuinely work on yourself.

Even though you're in a relationship, I think you still get the "lonely" feelings and with what Luke said about, it usually happening when you haven't got an aim etc - I think that's what it really boils down to. In the past, if you felt lonely or sad or whatever then you'd use the partner to cover these up, or you'd project these feelings onto the other and believe it's their fault, or it is the relationship that's causing the problem? Maybe the feeling of loneliness has associated with being single in the whole of society, that it makes us believe we NEED another to soothe the pain. But when you start soothing the pain yourself, "along side" someone else (like a friend) - then it still hurts, I mean when you're literally working on yourself. It's hard to explain.

 

[luke wilson]

So, if your opposite is knee deep in the general law, making crazy decisions and choices at every turn, this affects you negatively through some connection and makes your life that much harder? Isn't that just great to know!

 

[Miss.K]

So, if your opposite is knee deep in the general law, making crazy decisions and choices at every turn, this affects you negatively through some connection and makes your life that much harder? Isn't that just great to know!

hehehehe
yeah, that explains it!
my polar man is a moron, and that's why I have so many problems

What about if it's not about waiting to find that certain someone whom would be considered your polar opposite? Well, I've just thought of it as if you're already involved with another, then the most important thing to do is to let the other learn their separate lessons, not involving yourself in their affairs in terms of their "lesson profile" - not involving yourself in any affairs of theirs at all actually. Which I guess pretty much describes the whole collinear relationship, it seems a lot more like a loving friendship. It's only recently I really understood what that meant, after being in relationships that were all too much involved and all about projecting etc. And with what RedFox said about observing yourself/feelings/thoughts in order to stop projecting onto the other, it's a real eye opener and hit of reality when you start to pull back your projections and genuinely work on yourself.

I would think that even with a polar opposite, those things are important. If I met my polar man, and he started to project all kinds of stupid imaginations on me, and tell me what to do, and not acting as a loving friend, I'd probably tell him to go and get him self in order, before we could go at it together, and if reversed, I'd expect him to say the same...

Even though you're in a relationship, I think you still get the "lonely" feelings and with what Luke said about, it usually happening when you haven't got an aim etc - I think that's what it really boils down to. In the past, if you felt lonely or sad or whatever then you'd use the partner to cover these up, or you'd project these feelings onto the other and believe it's their fault, or it is the relationship that's causing the problem? Maybe the feeling of loneliness has associated with being single in the whole of society, that it makes us believe we NEED another to soothe the pain. But when you start soothing the pain yourself, "along side" someone else (like a friend) - then it still hurts, I mean when you're literally working on yourself. It's hard to explain.

I think that this is one side of the elephant, but also think that humans are not meant to be alone, and that the feeling of loneliness is a natural consequence of being alone.
I have felt more alone with a partner than I do alone. I think it is because feeling understood, is also essential for not feeling lonely, and when I'm alone I can understand myself, but when in a relationship with someone who don't, then I feel really lonely.
I don't know if it is possible to find a partner who is not the polar opposite and still feel understood.
I want to think it is, but then again, someone who would be capable of understanding me, would probably be on the same path, and so we might be aware that we weren't polar opposites and then we might decide not to complicate things..

 

[Alada]

So, if your opposite is knee deep in the general law, making crazy decisions and choices at every turn, this affects you negatively through some connection and makes your life that much harder? Isn't that just great to know!

Why look at it that way around? What if the way we act and lead our lives can help those around us, directly, indirectly, which might in turn help one’s polar opposite wherever they may be? The more clarity and stability we can achieve for ourselves, maybe that helps them all the more. What one gains, all gain, what one looses, all lose.

 

[luke wilson]

Out of curiosity, a polar opposite, are they similar or are they different to you?

I understand from some articles I read awhile back from SOTT and just general observation that the saying opposites attract is not really accurate. People form relationships, either friendships or romances based on similarities, not opposites/differences. Your friends or lovers tend to have a similar religious outlook so for example its rare you find an extreme of lets say evangelical Christian romanticising a staunch muslim, similar educational backgrounds, similar socio economic backgrounds etc. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but generally, the rule is this stuff is formed based on sameness, not differentness.

So, polar opposite, are they the same or are they different, generally speaking? What does the theory say, anyone know? As I understand, opposites are different. So if they are different, what is the basis for attraction?

Alada: Just seen your post. I suppose I am looking at it from a negative angle.