finding partners...

[luke wilson]

I'll just simply follow the advice that to me appears correct. Wait until you find someone colinear or someone who appears to be heading in the same direction as you, they don't necessarily need to know the same things as you or you know the same things as them but at least between the 2 of you, you should have synergy and a calling towards the same direction.

I have no desire to be be pulled into or feel stress about normal everyday relationships that appear to be all about feeding each other's predators as described earlier. However, I also will not feel guilty for my heart feeling like it wants companionship of the sort that aligns with my view of companionship. However, I will also not satisfy this desire by just throwing myself into a situation that doesn't align with the path I think we are upon. I don't think nature will allow this nor do I think my own spirit will allow it. My mortal life has no choice in the matter, it is subject through choice to orders greater than it. It's called faith and not just blind faith, but faith nonetheless, faith in nature, faith in life, faith in the process, faith that if you follow the right path, if not in this lifetime, in another, you will reach your destination. I believe in the contract between man and nature and even though we are just mere mortals, flesh and blood, in a world captured by STS forces, where we are food, in a world where we deceive ourselves and lie to ourselves, I still believe in the contract between man and nature. Where you will surrender yourself to a process but where nature will guide you where you can't see.

So to the talk of experience, I say good luck to you, I'm content following what appears to be the narrow path. Everyone to be lead by their own nature and their own choices, whatever it may be is what I say. c'est la vie! Some of us are happy driving blind i.e. functioning with uncertainty.

 

[Menna]

Miss K - Lol .. exactly

 

[BHelmet]

Think of it: if Mouravieff's info is correct, and each person has 987 facets, what are the odds of bumping into the perfect polar match? And yet, it happens. And we can even miss it when it does. Like life itself, I think relationships follow one's personal path of evolution. All part of the school. The relationship will provide the lessons appropriate for the place on the learning curve. It is an unweighted choice. No necessity one way or the other.

Ha! Think of entering into relationships as equivalent to our brilliant decision to come to 3D to speed up our evolution! LOL
(OK I have a dark sense of humor and I like to make fun to hopefully lighten things up.)

And think of all the lifetimes that could have been lived and forgotten in 309,000 years. All that experience, all those loves and lives. And where does that leave the individual now in this current life?

I have bucket-loads of experience and training with relationships and yet I wouldn't begin to presume to tell any of you what to do or how to do it. (unless I really knew you and you asked) I really don't think there are any hard and fast rules of how to approach the possibilities in the 'right way' or the 'best way'. It is going to be different for each since we are all unique individuals.

One thing I can say is that my favorite, most rewarding, challenging and educational relationships are with my kids.

Hmm... so, ultimately, what IS the point?

I am alone. I aim to know myself. And I also learn about myself when I relate with you. I can also learn about you if I listen and observe. I can try my best to serve you; To serve us. I see glimpses of myself in you, for we are mirrors for each other if we can consciously reflect.
How did that creation story go? God was alone and desired to be known?

Relationship is a great test. You have to be willing to be known. And then willing to know. And then, still love even after you know. Like this life, it is not for the faint of heart. And like comedy, it is not always pretty.

 

[Miss.K]

On one hand I agree with the warning of not entering into relationships that are not between two sane, deprogrammed, awake colinear people, with their centers working the right way, and enough of their I's agreeing to be able to actually agree to be together for the right reasons.
I agree for all the same reasons that are warned about here. And the dangers are real!

On the other hand I think some things that one should beware of, are like Astrid Lindgren beautifully describes in Ronja Röverdotter, when Ronja the Robbers daughter has been told by her parents before they let her explore the world around home by herself, to beware of many things in the woods, but most of all things, to beware of the hell gap, that is dividing the Robbers fortress into two halves where two rivaling Robber family/groups live. (it is deep so one will die if one falls into it)

Ronja who is a good girl and wants to do as her parents told her, reasons that she cannot beware of something she don't know, so after having practiced on all smaller dangers in the woods that her parents told her to beware of, she goes everyday to jump back and forth over the hell gap to practice being ware of it...

 

[Jodi]

As a more mature. (Read: older ) married woman, I took Lux's post to be about NOT coming on too strong. And a stable healthy woman would not respond to someone coming on too strong. His advice is what it is. The motives of men using his techniques isn't something he can control. In the first sentence, Lux stated that he was a young man and it gave me the sense that he's feeling his way. I appreciate that he's observant enough to know and pick up on cues that a woman is giving.

I also see how a woman can read the steps and feel like it's a set of instructions on how to play a woman. What comes to mind is that women want the approach to be organic and natural and not think a man is following a"How-to" guide.

I remember being single and struggling- all my friends seemed to have a boyfriend or girlfriend when ever I didn't! I still always feel disappointed on Valentine's Day. The whole concept of it is a set up for failure. IMHO. I remember one in particular when my sister and her boyfriend went to Vegas for the whole Valentine's Day weekend and my parents invited me over to play cards with my mom''s eternally single girl friend from college. I practically started to sob on the phone... LOL! Playing up my inner drama queen for effect!! But really, I felt like such a loser!

The point is- it's hard to be lonely. Yeah, you can look at it as time to work on yourself. But that doesn't change the feeling of wanting someone to harmoniously share your feelings with and love. Sometimes I wish I was single again. It's also a lot of work and compromise and understanding and growing to maintain a long term relationship. I find sometimes I wish I was out there partying with my friends and meeting someone who doesn't know and see through me and hold me accountable!! But then I remember what a struggle it was being lonely.

I'd tell Luke that it will happen if you are putting the vibe out. You'll meet someone and just know right then that it's going to be important. And, I would apologize because it seems like such an empty canned pat response.

 

[luke wilson]

Lol Jodi! Ah, that loser feeling... I'm quite well acquainted with it. ... I laugh but it sure does suck. Sometimes I see being single as humiliating... Lol! Humiliated by singledom... All around in happy coupledom, you alone and pitied... LOL. Pure goldmine for the work this is! Don Juan would be salivating at the prospects...!! A petty tyrant that is so intimate, so personal, so deep. The possibilities of working through it successfully... Well well... Goldmine. It'll be both a beautiful and a sad day when it all comes to an end...

 

[kalibex]

It's probably a lot harder than usual to build workable relationships going into an apocalypse

I find myself wondering (hopefully am not being too obtuse) why you think that would be the case...

I mean, aren't we in it....now?

 

[Neil]

It's probably a lot harder than usual to build workable relationships going into an apocalypse

I find myself wondering (hopefully am not being too obtuse) why you think that would be the case...

I mean, aren't we in it....now?

Well, I think there's still a fairly convincing veneer of normalcy in the first world. Things haven't broken down enough to fundamentally change the consensus reality. People still get money out of the ATMs, drive their SUVs to the malls and chat about the various trivialities of the day on TV. Yes it is a bit less than before, and yes things have been building in the background, but at the moment the illusion of the American Dream is just strained and hasn't been completely shattered just yet.

When I wrote that, I was thinking about the things you need to go on a date, a job, money, a car, etc. and wondering how much more time I have until the illusion breaks down fatally. I imagined dating someone who is well read about alternative theories and conspiracies with a critical mind and so forth, but from the comfort of a middle or lower-middle class background, who is really unprepared to deal with such a nitty-gritty reality head-on. I imagined how hard it would be to deal with someone who is suddenly shell-shocked that all of that is suddenly gone and wondering how we're going to make it in an entirely foreign reality. Keep in mind that this is basically a new relationship and not something that is established or very far past the "getting to know you" phase. I'm not 100% prepared for what might happen when everything is turned upside down and trying to reinvent your life while trying to offer a modicum of support and stability to someone else who is shell-shocked is probably a lot harder than doing it just for yourself. Pressures would probably result in the dissolution of the relationship. I thought that after everything really fell apart, it would be easier to find people who were more or less on the same page because the illusions are gone and they would have to adopt at least some of the same attitudes towards life just to survive. The need to form some form of community just to get by would increase the odds of finding collinear people. Even if I find the perfect partner, not being prepared due to internal and external events might just ruin the whole thing. Perhaps at this time, being in a relationship would just be a distraction from more important work that needs to be done.

The major exception to that scenario would be if I found someone who had the same belief system, at the same level of knowledge, making the same preparations as me, and both of us are "advanced" enough to enter into a more or less mature relationship from the get-go. Then living through the collapse would only serve to deepen the bond and would probably allow for the relationship to become richer and more real than in any other circumstance. I don't expect to find this perfect partner or be able to be one myself, honestly...

It just seemed to me that the environment would be much more conducive to finding partners after the reality had been "stripped to the bone" and the initial chaos from the collapse event had settled down to reveal more or less where the chips had fallen. Maybe in 5 years time after the economy is gone, supervolcanoes have gone off, a few impacts here and there, and the survivors have established themselves and learned how to dig in to deal with all of this stuff...it seems like a more stable foundation to start from.

 

[Miss.K]

When I wrote that, I was thinking about the things you need to go on a date, a job, money, a car, etc.

I don't think I've ever dated anyone who had a car, and only one who had a good job, and made some money, but I said no to marrying him as I was afraid I'd become an alcoholic housewife if I had it so easy (I was young and fierce)

I'm not saying that it isn't good to try to get one self in a position of having a job, some money and a car.
It is good!
But to say that you have to have it to be able to date a woman, is the same as if you hear a woman saying she won't have a chance of dating until she has become pretty and skinny, and model looking, enough to be attractive for a man. (the prettiest, skinniest women I know are as miserably lonely, or maybe even more so than others who are less skinny and pretty, so this idea, I know for a fact is a lie)

As to finding partners in the apocalypse, though circumstances for picking up ones skinny pretty girl in ones fancy car, and inviting her for a "Lady and the tramp" dinner with the money one has made in ones not too pathetic way of earning a living, so that she can feel one has something to offer, and not be too scared to have her pretty body deformed by pregnancy, because she knows one can at least pay alimony...Yes that is harder in a war/hunger/catastrophe scenario. But people tend to have a lot of romance going on during such times. More babies get born during wars than during peace (or so I've heard)
Rules get different, when life is different, and perhaps qualities like not being deceived by lies of what is happening, or acting like a true STO candidate, or having a soul (even if still under construction) or having a stash of 3 cans of sardines that one is willing to share, or such, becomes more important than the money and fancy car that are no longer useful in this situation..

I'd even say that those qualities are the most important for a souled woman in peace times too. In peace times women are usually able to work themselves to buy a car if they need one. What they can't buy themselves is a decent souled man.

 

[Neil]

I don't think I've ever dated anyone who had a car, and only one who had a good job, and made some money, but I said no to marrying him as I was afraid I'd become an alcoholic housewife if I had it so easy (I was young and fierce)

Well, the car thing kind of depends on where you live, I think. In small town America you're kind of sunk without one, mass transit is basically nonexistent, everything is too spread out to be able to walk anywhere, and you're always having to inconvenience someone else if you have to get to work or want to go out somewhere. I even had several hiring managers ask me what kind of car I drove because "reliable transportation" was one of the requirements stated to get the job. The car is simply a must if I met someone, because I'd really have no way to spend time with them otherwise.

You've got to have enough money to be able to have a roof over your heads and not constantly be worrying about ending up on the street when the bills start piling up on the counter. I couldn't stand fighting over money... Some people my age solve this by moving in with someone's parents, but in my mind this basically amounts to being a "deadbeat," especially if children are involved, which I'm adamantly against at this point in my life. Some people I work with are in this situation, and the fathers/fathers in law basically have a thinly veiled disgust for the boy their daughter has shacked up with. The mothers seem to be a bit more compassionate and try their best to build a family, but when I see a young couple pushing a baby stroller with their parents following behind I just kind of shake my head and wonder how they could be so ignorant and irresponsible.

As I said, children are completely off my radar, something to avoid in this kind of a world we're presently living in IMO, but I'm not sure how much heart really matters in the above mentioned living arrangement. What if some boy moved into your house with your daughter, and you thought he was more or less ok even though he had some issues? Ok, you're on this forum so maybe you have a little bit different perspective, but still...

Just to clarify, I have a job that pays about the median amount for my region, my bills and necessities only consume about 2/3 of my income, and I drive a newish pickup truck. I wasn't trying to say that I needed to have a Porsche to escort my date to the candlelight wine dinners on Kings Bay every night, a girl who needs those things to like you is clearly a gold digger. The things I was speaking of are practical necessities to have a life, and I know they are illusions based on a certain economic system that can be taken away at any moment. In fact, I'm sitting here just waiting for an "attack" to come from this arena when one day I'll wake up and have nothing.

But people tend to have a lot of romance going on during such times. More babies get born during wars than during peace (or so I've heard)

Yes, I've heard it referred to as "disaster sex" and I don't think most of it has much to do with love, although some of it might. If a bunch of people get the idea that the end is nigh, most of them are going to try and live it up before it's "lights out." This also serves the purposes of biology because if some of the parents survive, more offspring means a bigger gene pool and the species is less likely to go extinct. On the other hand, perhaps it is a time of great liberation from a predatory economic system that says "you must have $xxx" and it allows get in touch with what it really means to be human and truly relate with each other free from that artificial interference. Maybe such times, if your mindset is right, allow you to get back to what really matters in life and experience it as it really "should" be? I understand where you're going with that; perhaps this is an advantage communal societies have over ones that define themselves by "rugged individualism."

I'd even say that those qualities are the most important for a souled woman in peace times too. In peace times women are usually able to work themselves to buy a car if they need one. What they can't buy themselves is a decent souled man.

That's a very insightful way of putting it, I wonder how many people really understand and desire the concept though. Heck, I wonder if I even fully understand it...

 

[kalibex]

Rules get different, when life is different, and perhaps qualities like not being deceived by lies of what is happening, or acting like a true STO candidate, or having a soul (even if still under construction) or having a stash of 3 cans of sardines that one is willing to share, or such, becomes more important than the money and fancy car that are no longer useful in this situation..

I'm ahead of the game, then - I have 11 cans right now! ;D

I'd even say that those qualities are the most important for a souled woman in peace times too. In peace times women are usually able to work themselves to buy a car if they need one. What they can't buy themselves is a decent souled man.

To know and be known by? (Not necessarily in the Biblical sense.)

 

[Miss.K]

I'm ahead of the game, then - I have 11 cans right now! ;D

OMG! A total catch!!

Just to clarify, I have a job that pays about the median amount for my region, my bills and necessities only consume about 2/3 of my income, and I drive a newish pickup truck.

A pick up truck! (inside screaming and fainting like girls at a Beatles concert) And I was just talking to a friend about how I really wanted an old pickup truck as they in my opinion are about the coolest cars one can have, but that I'll probably never be able to afford one..(they are more expensive in Europe, and eat a lot of gasoline)

Do you happen to have have sardines too?

Joke aside, I understand the concerns, but really all that is needed for a couple to survive is their health, love, brains, and response-ability to what ever problems arises, be it peace time or war time trouble.

No matter if you have money, if you are not able to respond to unexpected problems that money don't solve, you'll have arguments. And when you don't have money in a relationship, arguments about money usually only come when there is a failure in responding to the money problem in a responsible manner (like when the man uses all the little money the couple have, to go drinking in a bar because he is worried about not having money, and feeling like a failure, so he needs to drown his sorrows, and the woman thinks that is a bad solution to the problem)

As to "disaster sex" I think that a big reason for romance to flourish under terrible living conditions, is that there is nothing like a common enemy, that brings people closer, and makes one care less about petty things that don't really matter when it comes to life and death situations. And also that people when forced to, can act very heroic, which make them admire each other more.

Also when seeing hate and death all around, one will cherish love, and acts of kindness more, and a photograph of someone who in peace times might have just been a fling, can be what gives one the strength to go one, by hoping they are still alive, and trying to stay alive for them.

I don't think this is a bad "fake thing" but actually rather beautiful. I think we would die without it.
-even if it is a somehow mechanical reaction, it is still love, like mother love is somehow mechanical, but a good thing still, and essential for survival.

(I've been looking at a lot of documentary of the Russians during WW2 yesterday, and might be a little emotional about the beauty of the human spirit when faced with unimaginable horrors)

 

[Neil]

A pick up truck! (inside screaming and fainting like girls at a Beatles concert) And I was just talking to a friend about how I really wanted an old pickup truck as they in my opinion are about the coolest cars one can have, but that I'll probably never be able to afford one..(they are more expensive in Europe, and eat a lot of gasoline)

This is completely off topic, but since we're being silly, you're not envisioning something with like 35'' tires? I'm amazed at how some country girls fawn over a big truck with big tires. I don't personally understand it... And I don't have sardines, but I have lots of beef, pork and even bacon LOL.

I don't think this is a bad "fake thing" but actually rather beautiful. I think we would die without it.
-even if it is a somehow mechanical reaction, it is still love, like mother love is somehow mechanical, but a good thing still, and essential for survival.

See, this is kind of been a big deal since I've been reading the 4th Way stuff. I went through a phase where I was sort of into romance movies, but it kind of dawned on me that it was just the machine doing what it does, under the direction of the General Law. Yes, it all seems really cute and fun and uplifting the way it's presented, and I deeply desired the experience, but it's "fake." And when you fall in love with an illusion, you, well, FALL. I've never been convinced that ALL romance is fake, but the sort of conscious love that is based on truth that endures and doesn't fall apart under the Law of Accident seems rather elusive. If you're striving to be a fully conscious being, you certainly don't want to fall into the soup by allowing yourself to succumb to the A influences of "love" as presented by the General Law. That's why I said I can't really tell where the programs end and the legitimate stuff begins. I guess this is why Mouravieff describes the 4th step of the staircase as the test of Love, because once you get there you really have to discern the difference from the influences of the Absolute II and the Absolute III. Although, I think he was speaking of a more generalized love for humanity, romantic love definitely plays a role in that as well. The most satisfactory answer I've heard is that one day you will "just know" because that is something that comes in from a higher level and can't be defined with the logic of this level. But you have to make sure your wave reading instrument is attuned to resonate with the B influences of knowing and not the A influences of thinking you know.

I do have to agree with Menna just a tad here, this whole concept of conscious love and having a real relationship is so far out in theoretical land for me that I'll just start spinning in circles if I spend too much energy on it. That said, I do appreciate your insights and generally agree with what you've written in this thread, even though I see a caveat here and there in terms of the Work.

 

[Miss.K]

This is completely off topic, but since we're being silly, you're not envisioning something with like 35'' tires? I'm amazed at how some country girls fawn over a big truck with big tires. I don't personally understand it... And I don't have sardines, but I have lots of beef, pork and even bacon LOL.

Oh no! I'd be highly suspicious that someone with wheels that size had something to compensate for!
I'm thinking of an older, smaller type, probably red, though I'd prefer blue, with square nose, and discreet looking, though beautiful in it's own old useful way

I don't think this is a bad "fake thing" but actually rather beautiful. I think we would die without it.
-even if it is a somehow mechanical reaction, it is still love, like mother love is somehow mechanical, but a good thing still, and essential for survival.

See, this is kind of been a big deal since I've been reading the 4th Way stuff. I went through a phase where I was sort of into romance movies, but it kind of dawned on me that it was just the machine doing what it does, under the direction of the General Law. Yes, it all seems really cute and fun and uplifting the way it's presented, and I deeply desired the experience, but it's "fake." And when you fall in love with an illusion, you, well, FALL. I've never been convinced that ALL romance is fake, but the sort of conscious love that is based on truth that endures and doesn't fall apart under the Law of Accident seems rather elusive. If you're striving to be a fully conscious being, you certainly don't want to fall into the soup by allowing yourself to succumb to the A influences of "love" as presented by the General Law. That's why I said I can't really tell where the programs end and the legitimate stuff begins. I guess this is why Mouravieff describes the 4th step of the staircase as the test of Love, because once you get there you really have to discern the difference from the influences of the Absolute II and the Absolute III. Although, I think he was speaking of a more generalized love for humanity, romantic love definitely plays a role in that as well. The most satisfactory answer I've heard is that one day you will "just know" because that is something that comes in from a higher level and can't be defined with the logic of this level. But you have to make sure your wave reading instrument is attuned to resonate with the B influences of knowing and not the A influences of thinking you know.

I do have to agree with Menna just a tad here, this whole concept of conscious love and having a real relationship is so far out in theoretical land for me that I'll just start spinning in circles if I spend too much energy on it. That said, I do appreciate your insights and generally agree with what you've written in this thread, even though I see a caveat here and there in terms of the Work.

I think that the thing is that love manifests here on earth as hormones that feel good. The feel good hormones can be induced without real love, and can be used as a drug, with all the traps and escapes from reality, that drugs have.
But the hormones also come with real love, as love will manifest as love hormones.

I cannot find any reason for anything without love. Why learn if it is not for the love of knowing what something is, or to protect something you love from harm? Why try to understand what is the truth if not because love is light is knowledge? The only point in knowing anything as I see it, is because one can't really love unless one knows what it is that one loves.

I'll admit to being a romantic, and I think love is very romantic. By this I mean as well love for truth, or love for all creation, as love between humans, be it platonic, or knowing someone in a more biblical sense.

I can only agree with the romantic character played by Johnny Depp in the film Don Juan, who says (as I remember it)

There are only 4 great questions in life;

What is sacred ?
What is the spirit made of?
What is worth living for?
and what is worth dying for?

And the answer to them all is:
Love

:)

 

[Yas]

I don't think this is a bad "fake thing" but actually rather beautiful. I think we would die without it.
-even if it is a somehow mechanical reaction, it is still love, like mother love is somehow mechanical, but a good thing still, and essential for survival.

See, this is kind of been a big deal since I've been reading the 4th Way stuff. I went through a phase where I was sort of into romance movies, but it kind of dawned on me that it was just the machine doing what it does, under the direction of the General Law. Yes, it all seems really cute and fun and uplifting the way it's presented, and I deeply desired the experience, but it's "fake." And when you fall in love with an illusion, you, well, FALL. I've never been convinced that ALL romance is fake, but the sort of conscious love that is based on truth that endures and doesn't fall apart under the Law of Accident seems rather elusive. If you're striving to be a fully conscious being, you certainly don't want to fall into the soup by allowing yourself to succumb to the A influences of "love" as presented by the General Law. That's why I said I can't really tell where the programs end and the legitimate stuff begins. I guess this is why Mouravieff describes the 4th step of the staircase as the test of Love, because once you get there you really have to discern the difference from the influences of the Absolute II and the Absolute III. Although, I think he was speaking of a more generalized love for humanity, romantic love definitely plays a role in that as well. The most satisfactory answer I've heard is that one day you will "just know" because that is something that comes in from a higher level and can't be defined with the logic of this level. But you have to make sure your wave reading instrument is attuned to resonate with the B influences of knowing and not the A influences of thinking you know.

I do have to agree with Menna just a tad here, this whole concept of conscious love and having a real relationship is so far out in theoretical land for me that I'll just start spinning in circles if I spend too much energy on it. That said, I do appreciate your insights and generally agree with what you've written in this thread, even though I see a caveat here and there in terms of the Work.

I think that the thing is that love manifests here on earth as hormones that feel good. The feel good hormones can be induced without real love, and can be used as a drug, with all the traps and escapes from reality, that drugs have.
But the hormones also come with real love, as love will manifest as love hormones.

Yes, but these are different hormones. If you've read Cupid's Poisoned Arrow, the hormones that are released whith bonding behaviours are different than the hormones released in other types of encounters.

I think that Neil and Menna are right here. We aren't yet on the spot where we can say we know what true love is, as love is not just something that feels good, I think it is more like a state of consciousness, awareness and BEing that requires unity of self and previous Work.

But I guess we can experience glimpses of what that is in the ways you described Miss K. (love of knowledge, wanting to know more because we love someone, or others, etc...), but even that can be programs running, so, it is very important to keep ourselves "down on earth" so to say and remember that love, in the terms that you describe it, depends on our level of BEing and therefore, it requires that we work on our BEing. OSIT