finding partners...

luke wilson said:
Hi Guys,

I have a question that I need an honest answer to. A really honest answer.

I already know the correct answer, the default answer.

Is it weird to be a guy well into your adulthood and always have been single?

Before you answer the question here is the correct answer from a forum perspective;

"Oh no it's not weird, you need to work on yourself and you'll naturally find a co-linear partner, you need to understand who you are and what you are looking for etc"

Nonetheless, it's weird, right? Be honest, it is...

Here is the correct answer from the 'rest' of the world perspective

"Yup, completely and utterly weird, you have something wrong with you somewhere, either poor social skills or some attribute that puts any potential partner off you... "

Actually, both are the SAME answer. In the "forum answer", what is unspoken is that "there is something wrong with you either poor social skills or some attribute that puts any potential partner off you... " and that the only way to get over this is to "work on yourself and you'll naturally find a co-linear partner, you need to understand who you are and what you are looking for etc"

Because that IS the bottom line, isn't it?

That's what it is all about: learning how to become, at the very least, a good obyvatel, able to function in the world effectively and efficiently and to stop using the excuse "I'm so speshul, I wasn't meant for this horrible, judgmental, pragmatic world."

However, we DO take the view that the reason most esoterically inclined people have such abysmal social skillz is because they are more sensitive to their environment and therefore, the social programming has a more damaging effect and that this might be intentional.

But that just means you have to know your machine and work harder to be able to do the things that people with less sensitive instruments do as a matter of course. After all, if you can't manage your ordinary life, how the heck do you think you can move into other realms and manage them? You think the cosmos is gonna give the keys to a 4D vehicle to someone who can't even drive a 3D one?
 
Thanks people for this thread I found the discussion very useful to me (especially Laura remarks) .

I've recently had an argument with my sister due to the fact that she looks at me and see a kind of lonely and isolated man. The fact is that having made changes in my life , many of my old friends just gone off.
Now I started doing things such: sports activities, courses which brings me the opportunity meeting new people and also provides me a "battlefield" to prove myself.

Certainly, I'm not doing everything well and I try to revise my behaviour, attitude as well as the words I use all the time.
 
My understanding right now is that relationships are very important. All relationships, not just romantic. From attachment relationships with parents, to friends, teachers, mentors etc. Relationships are necessary for learning and polarization. I often think about what exactly is the "predators maneuver.' My guess is that it has something to do with early imprinting/ emotional wounding and resulting unhealthy relationships with a feeding dynamic. The result of a lack of knowledge and awareness. But learning to have healthy relationships is necessary for growth and STO polarization. (I think) As for me, I'm not looking. With my addictive personality, I would be suspicious of a desire to find someone as another form of a fix. That doesn't mean I'm closed to the possibility. I just think it should come as a natural progression of things.

I'm good being alone for now.
 
luke wilson said:
Thanks for the answer and it's somewhat re-assuring to learn that I am not alone!

Well, from my perspective, those who know I've been single all my life find it weird and some have gone as far as thinking their is something fundamentally wrong with me, somewhere. I am yet to figure out if their is or their isn't. So now I hide that and make it really hard for people to figure me out.

Do I think it's weird? Well, it depends... Sometimes I think I have chosen to be this way, like somehow different levels of my mind are playing tricks with each other with the outer most level not really having access to the choices the deeper levels have made. Whenever I get close to a girl, the same things always come up, I'm always scared of physical intimacy for some reason - just scared maybe due to lack of experience or maybe other reasons I don't know and further I am always scared of letting anyone know my history especially with regard to my family and most importantly, my dad and recently I always think I am not yet economically secure to offer protection to any potential partner which is the duty of a man. I've noticed that if you really can't be honest with someone then you can't really have any sort of deep meaningful connection but honesty requires you to be vulnerable which is a dangerous place to be. So maybe their is some self-sabotage going on driven by reasons hidden from the conscious mind.

Any ways, going back to do I think it's weird? Well sometimes yes if I contemplate a potential life alone and if I see the happiness people in relationships experience and knowing that is something I may never experience but other times no because I also enjoy my own freedom.

A few thoughts here. Firstly, I don't think it's either helpful or accurate to consider your situation 'weird'. Perhaps 'statistically anomalous' in comparison to the general population but then all that says is that your situation is not aligned with the majority. So what? I guess the point is that there are always objective reasons why we have particular dispositions and inclinations that create and maintain the idiosyncratic patterns in our lives and identifying these and untangling them is a significant part of the work.

What you've mentioned about honesty and vulnerability is crucial I think and I'm inclined to think that vulnerability and the factors surrounding why we feel vulnerable and how we address these are key in terms of avoiding dissonance and struggle with our own sense of self.

When we experience vulnerability (in any area of our lives), the automatic inclination is often to hide or even lie about our true nature and the result of this can be to create even more I's than we already have. Masks are constructed and the essence develops fissures. There's a certain amount of overlap here with the fallacies of the law of attraction or the 'fake it till you make it' approach as many seem to think that if they just affirm the opposite of what they experience as real then their uncomfortable reality will just disappear!

The crucial point is I think that 'feeling vulnerable' shouldn't necessarily be equated with 'being weak' or 'being defective'. It's how we deal with our vulnerabilities that determines our strength or weakness in the situation. You mention that honesty requires being vulnerable and that that's a 'dangerous place to be' which is a sentiment I can relate to. However, specifically in the context of relationships, when we feel vulnerable we often fall into the trap of believing that the desired person in our lives will perceive our vulnerabilities in the same way that we do: with rejection, dislike and discomfort. In fact, it can be potentially the opposite. I think that really showing our vulnerability to a partner can be incredibly liberating and bonding for both parties for what can be be more intimate than showing someone our true selves, both the good and the bad (as we perceive them)? Of course being able to do this rests on being perceptive and intuitive enough to know whether the person can be trusted with your wounding and whether they are emotionally open and mature enough to engage with this. I guess there's a certain irony here as I've found that showing personal vulnerability to another can often be the very thing that fosters trust in that person in the first place.

In terms of being scared of physical intimacy, I think this is more common than you would think and my feeling is that both men and women often create all kinds of masks to try and get what they want physically. We have to remember that sex is serious stuff! If one is significantly wounded/vulnerable, many aspects of our shadow selves can come to the fore in the arena of sexual relationships as the very act of physical intimacy involves a high level of emotional opening and indeed vulnerability in the presence of another human being. Ultimately though, they can contribute towards profound healing though this is likely quite rare as far as I can see. I guess in the end it again comes down to the work on the self. Once we begin to feel comfortable with our own vulnerabilities, accepting and honouring them as parts of ourselves, we become more 'whole' and are then able to foster trust and bonding with another person who can love us for who we truly are......
 
I got my first computer back in 1990 and at that time I was 29 years old with a grand total of two dates with one woman whom I was set up with by my parents; not exactly a great dating resume. After I got a computer I had a date set up with the very first person I talked to. She later cancelled cause I sounded too serious but I learned and over the next five years dated three women I met online and married the third one. Starting off not being in person for some odd reason helped me greatly though my in person personality had a very hard time living up to my online self.

It eventually helps that with people like my family or college roommates I have no problem being as humorous or as deep as online but in person with people I don't know well it's best if there's some activity going on that generates conversations cause otherwise I just take too long to think up things to say. This is true even online since I'm just as bad in chat rooms/instant messaging as in person. It seems that if I don't have a history with someone in order to create comebacks with or some activity going on, I'm just way too slow thinking up things to say.

I think some of this is personality related but people very much can become more mature in personality traits they aren't biased towards, so you definitely aren't a slave to your born with personality. As near as I can tell (and I could be wrong); it seems like having a concrete Jungian S personality or a decisive Jungian J personality are good for interacting decisively with your real world environment. Us wishy-washy abstractoids have problems to work on in this area.

It also doesn't help if you are an introvert as well as a wishy-washy abstractoid. Introversion by itself doesn't seem to hugely hurt though if you aren't hugely introverted. My introverted wife (Jungian S & J) is a vice principle; my hugely introverted son (J and I think S) is on student council (though he does have problems with class participation grades); and my introverted sister (J) is a public relations executive.
 
However, we DO take the view that the reason most esoterically inclined people have such abysmal social skillz is because they are more sensitive to their environment and therefore, the social programming has a more damaging effect and that this might be intentional.

I agree and believe the answer at to why this is can open the door to many other answers. This might be better in a new thread however I think its important to contemplate the quoted/bolded statement from laura.

I do believe though that what is sensitive can be "hardened" (for a lack of a better word) as I feel through experience and knowledge comes awareness of what is the truth of situations this truth pieced together can lead to a larger truth about life. This truth can destroy some causing them to buffer and revert back or propel others to find the best way to navigate among the truth. So in a sense some start out sensitive but with the same esoterically inclined instruments develop the fortitude to continue and fortitude and sensitivity dont go together where is that tipping point and what in us enables one to carry on. Maybe this is an example of what is talked about in Ginosis with the metal filings being burned (read it 5-6 yrs ago and gave it away to a friend don't remember specifics anymore just concepts) maybe the sensitivity turned into non sensitivity is a form of alchemy - I dont know taking shots in the dark.

"Religion is for people that believe their going to hell. Spirituality is for those that have already been there." - Not me :)
 
Throughout my life i have definitely succumbed to justifying myself via the 'speshul' category; that i saw love and relations as something more than most others. I do feel i have an expectation and/or appreciation for companionship that few in my peer group acknowledged or even aspired too.

I think Zenith's comments regarding the psychological workings and especially "Sex is serious stuff!" explicates well the pragmatic side of things.

I echo the others in thanks to Lauras comments. And i think this is where it gets confusing, or at least difficult to perceive the difference; if the idea is that perhaps we do feel the need for a particular type of relationship and because of this we are misunderstood, rather than be overcome with the feelings of lack, the way we live should relfect this utmost respect for love. Our actions would support anything anything that resonated with this reverence.

I read this passage last night in Tertium Organum and i immediately thought of this thread - obviously, it's called "on Love" - and it really struck a chord with me and my thinking. I'm still reading and so perhaps there's something i've missed but it is beautifully written all the same. I think helps identify this powerful concept for what it is rather than just companionship, which appears to be the main 'use' for this 'force' in our world.

In some ways it could encourage you to dwell on the fact that you are speshul, because you see 'so much more' than others. But i think, for me, it actually just confirms that yes, what a wonderous thing love is, and till you find it, there's so much more to learn about it. How to become a conduit for it. Or just at least that the concept is so huge, trying to 'find it' is a bit of a misnomer.

Understandably, companionship, even if not true love, can happen and be very fruitful, but as per the passage, many times it's a feeling of loneliness which we are trying to 'fill' using others to support us where we are unable to support ourselves. Where as, often, we just need an outlet to express this love we have bubbling inside; hence why many people enjoy doing charity work.

So perhaps, it's a mixture of things; i have programmes and trauma which have interfered at times, but i also have a glimpse of what love can be/do, if it's not yet my time to be part in a relationship, then i have to see to it that the love/energy be put to good use.

I know it's a long passage, but i think you can read the highlighted parts and comprehend what i'm trying to get at. And it's the first time i've posted something like this so bear with me and any advice is welcome.


Tertium organum (the third organ of thought) a key to the enigmas of the world said:
_http://archive.org/stream/tertiumorganumth00uspe/tertiumorganumth00uspe_djvu.txt

So that in our time men understand love as a common, every-day
manner of life, they understand it as a psychological phenomenon,
but all idea and sense of the cosmical content of love is atrophied
in them.

In the first mentioned case — in an every-day understanding of
love — men strive to utilize love as an instrument or means for the
settling of their lives; and in the second, they demand of love that
it shall settle the affairs of their souls.
But in both cases love is
burdened by purposes and problems which do not belong to it at
all. In reality love is a cosmic phenomenon, in which men, human-
ity, are merely accidents : a cosmic phenomenon which has nothing
to do with either the lives or the souls of men, any more than that
the sun is shining, that by its light men may go about their
little affairs, and that they may utilize it for their own purposes.
If men would only understand this, even with a part of their



164 TERTIUM ORGANUM

consciousness, a new world would open, and to look on life from
all our usual angles would become very strange.

For then they would understand that love is something else,
and of quite a different order from the petty phenomena of
earthly life.

Perhaps love is a world of strange spirits who at times take up
their abode in men, subduing them to themselves, making them
tools for the accomplishment of their inscrutable purposes. Per-
haps it is some particular region of the inner world wherein the
souls of men sometimes enter, and where they live according to
the laws of that world, while their bodies remain on earth, bound
by the laws of earth. Perhaps it is an alchemical work of some
Great Master wherein the souls and bodies of men play the role of
elements out of which is compounded a 'philosopher s stone, or an
elixir of life, or some mysterious magnetic force necessary to some-
one for some incomprehensible purpose.

It is difficult to understand all this, and to make it seem rational.
But by seeking to understand these mysterious purposes and by
departing from mundane interpretations, man, without even being
conscious of it at first, unites himself with the higher purposes and
finds that thread which in the end of all ends will lead him out of
the labyrinth of earthly contradictions.

But this thread must be found first through the emotions, by
direct feeling, and only afterwards by reason.
And this thread
will never reveal itself to a man who denies love and scorns it,
because the denial of the importance and deep meaning of love
always results from the materialistic view, and the materialistic
view of love cannot be true. This view cannot be true because it
considers love too narrowly, deduces general conclusions from
premises of too negligible a percentage of data based on facts, sees
only in a plane section a phenomenon of four-dimensional char-
acter. Love is exactly as material a phenomenon as is the picture
of a painter or the symphony of a musician. To analyze and
evaluate love materialistically is precisely the same thing as try-
ing to value a picture by its weight and a symphony by the volume
of sound produced.


What does the spiritual understanding of love mean?

It means the understanding of the fact that love does not serve
life, but serves the higher apprehension. If he is in right relation
to it, love attunes man to the note of the "wondrous" strips off



TERTIUM ORGANUM 165

veils, opens closed doors. Both in the past, and perhaps in the
present, there undoubtedly have been attempts at the understand-
ing of love divorced from life, as a cult, as a magical ceremony,
attuning body and soul to the reception of the wondrous.

Love in relation to our life is a deity, sometimes terrible, some-
times benevolent, but never subservient to us, never consenting to
serve our purposes. Men strive to subordinate love to themselves,
to warp it to the uses of their everyday mode of life, and to their
souls' uses; but it is impossible to subordinate love to anything, and
it mercilessly revenges itself upon these little mortals who would
subordinate God to themselves
and make Him serve them. It con-
fuses all their calculations, and forces them to do things which con-
found themselves, forcing them to serve itself, to do what it wants.

Although our relation to love is so naive, there is no reason to
suppose that men cannot take toward it an entirely different atti-
tude,
or that they always have been or always will be completely
bound by materialism, without flashes of understanding of the
wondrous in love.

Somewhere, in the distant spaces of time, stand the magnificent
temples of Love, there pass processions of priests and priestesses,
and therein are performed the rituals of strange cults, full of deep
mysticism, sometimes shot through by the flaming lightnings of
revelations most profound.

All this is too little understood by us ; we have wandered too far
from the understanding of these mysteries, we have perverted
them in our perception, lost the keys to their inner mystical sig-
nificance. Only the religions of the Orient have preserved a living
connection with the cosmical understanding of love. This re-
ligious attitude toward love, which alone can reveal its inner
content, may be seen in the phallic foundation of Hinduism, in
the deities of Hindu mythology, in numerous still existing cere-
monies, and particularly in those secret cults which still survive
in many places in India. This idea is the principal content of the
mysterious Kama-Yoga, to which are consecrated several temples
in different parts of India (for example, the "temple of Raja from
Nepal" at Bernares). In the "Western occultism", in alchemy,
in magic, is also sometimes discernible a profound and fine un-
derstanding of love, united with the search for the wonderous.

But at the present time there is nothing so full of confusion as
our understanding of love. We find no path among contradictions,




166 TERTIUM ORGANUM

and the age-long accumulation of lies and calumnies against love.
Nor shall we understand it until we understand its great noumenal,
transcendental meaning.

The chief error that men make about love consists in the fact
that they believe in its reality, and ascribe love to themselves; or,
generally, to mankind. It seems to them that love begins in
them, belongs to them, ends in them.
And even when they ad-
mit that everything in the world depends upon love and moves by
love, they still seek in themselves the sources of love.

Mistaken about the origin of love, men are mistaken about its
result. Positivistic and spiritistic morality equally recognize in
love only one possible result — children, the propagation of the
species. But this objective result, which may or may not be, is in
any case an effect of the outer, objective side of love, of the ma-
terial fact of impregnation. If it is possible to see in love nothing
more than this material fact and the desire for it, so be it; but in
reality love consists not at all in a material fact, and the results
of it — except material ones — may manifest themselves on quite
another plane.
This other plane, upon which love acts, and the
ignored, hidden results of love, are not difficult to understand,
even from the strictly positivistic, scientific standpoint.

To science, which studies life from this side, the purpose of
love is the continuation of life.
More exactly, love is a link in the
chain of facts supporting the continuation of life. The force
which attracts the two sexes to one another is acting in the inter-
ests of the continuation of the species, and is accordingly created
by the forms of the continuation of the species. But if we regard
love in this way, then it is impossible not to recognize that there is
much more of this force than is necessary. Herein lies the key to the
correct understanding of the true nature of love. There is more of
this force than is necessary, infinitely more.
In reality only an
infinitesimal part of love's force incarnate in humanity is utilized
for the purpose of the continuation of the species. But where
does the major part of that force go?


We know that nothing can be lost. If energy exists, then it
must transform itself into something. Now if a merely negligible
percentage of energy goes into the creation of the future by be-
getting, then the remainder must go into the creation of the future
also, but in another way
. We have in the physical world many
cases in which the direct function is effected by a very small per-



TERTIUM ORGANUM 167

centage of the consumed energy, and the greater part is spent
without return, as it were. But of course this greater part of
energy does not disappear, is not wasted, but accomplishes other
results quite different from the direct function.


Take the example of a common candle. It gives light, but it
also gives considerably more heat than light. Light is the direct
function of a candle, heat the indirect, but we get more heat than
light. A candle is a furnace adapted to the purpose of lighting.
In order to give light a candle must burn. Combustion is a neces-
sary condition for the receiving of light from a candle; it is im-
possible to ignore this combustion ; but the same combustion gives
heat. At first thought it appears that the heat from a candle is
spent unproductively ; sometimes it is superfluous, unpleasant,
annoying; if a room is lighted by candles it will soon grow ex-
cessively hot. But the fact remains that light is received from a
candle only because of combustion
— by the development of heat and
the incandescence of volatilized gases.

The same thing is true in the case of love. We may say that a
merely negligible part of love's energy goes into posterity; the
greater part is spent by the fathers and mothers on their personal
emotions as it were. But this also is necessary. Without this ex-
penditure the principal thing could not be achieved. Only because
of these at first sight collateral results of love, only because of all
this tempest of emotions, feelings, effervescences, desires,
thoughts, dreams, fantasies, inner creation; only because of the
beauty which it creates, can love fulfill its immediate function.

Moreover — and this perhaps is the most important — the super-
fluous energy is not wasted at all, but is transformed into other
forms of energy, possible to discover. Generally speaking, the
significance of the indirect results may very often be of more im-
portance than the significance of direct ones.
And since we are
able to trace how the energy of love transforms itself into instincts,
ideas, creative forces on different planes of life; into symbols of
art, song, music, poetry
; so can we easily imagine how the same
energy may transform itself into a higher order of intuition, into a
higher consciousness which will reveal to us a marvelous and
mysterious world.

In all living nature (and perhaps also in that which we consider
as dead) love is the motive force which drives the creative activity
in the most diverse directions.




168 TERTIUM ORGANUM

In springtime, with the first awakening of love's emotions, the
birds begin to sing, and to build nests.

Of course a positivist would strive to explain all this very
simply: singing acts as an attraction between the females
and the males, and so forth. But even a positivist will not be in a
position to deny that there is a good deal more of this singing than
is necessary for the "continuation of the species." For a posi-
tivist, indeed, "singing" is merely "an accident," a "by-product."
But in reality it may be that this singing is the principal function
of a given species, the realization of its existence,
the purpose pur-
sued by nature in creating this species; and that this singing is
necessary, not so much to attract the females, as for some gen-
eral harmony of nature which we only rarely and imperfectly
sense.

Thus in this case we observe that what appears to be a collateral
function of love, from the standpoint of the individual, may serve
as a principal function of the species
.
 
Laura said:
There have been a few relationships that have formed between members of FOTCM which is where meetings and activities are organized.

Now this is a real a mystery to me. Where can I find in the Forum a thread that deals with Meetings and Activities? In my geographical area there are just a few members of FOTCM if I have to go by the Members Map. How to contact them or other members re Meetings and Activities I don't have a clue.

Regarding the map, I see some apparent innacuracies, like for example the marker for "There is one member in Sao Paulo" if off by more than 1000 miles. The maker for "There are 4 about members in Toronto" is also off by maybe another 1000 miles. Are these markers placed correctly and therefore refer to the real location where they are pointing? Or are they really off and belong to Sao Paulo and Toronto respectively?

:huh:
 
ROEL said:
Now this is a real a mystery to me. Where can I find in the Forum a thread that deals with Meetings and Activities? In my geographical area there are just a few members of FOTCM if I have to go by the Members Map. How to contact them or other members re Meetings and Activities I don't have a clue.

Hello Roel,

meetings and activities are reserved for FOTCM members, not regular members.

Networking and participating more on the forum will allow you to gain access.
 
Tigersoap said:
Hello Roel,

meetings and activities are reserved for FOTCM members, not regular members.

Networking and participating more on the forum will allow you to gain access.

I'm guessing that you mean a subset of FOTCM members, because I am a member of FOTCM since December 2013.
 
Laura said:
After all, if you can't manage your ordinary life, how the heck do you think you can move into other realms and manage them? You think the cosmos is gonna give the keys to a 4D vehicle to someone who can't even drive a 3D one?
So true!
 
What's the word on all this new mobile dating apps that are taking the young and middle aged by storm...? apps like tinder and the like. A potential mate is only a right swipe away...
 
luke wilson said:
What's the word on all this new mobile dating apps that are taking the young and middle aged by storm...? apps like tinder and the like. A potential mate is only a right swipe away...

Worse than "online dating" via places like match.com and plenty of fish. And those are not good. What do you think the odds are of finding someone who's aware of what's going on the world and interested in working on themselves in any of these places?
 
Nice to see the interaction on this thread... I have been extremely single for quite some time now. Almost every pairing up instinct I have ever had ranging from "Wow... She looks good." to "I want to be your man forever" was just enough more coherent than radio static to form the urge "me... want... that..."
In that light, the imperative to get into a couple situation does not seem much more serious than a candy bar commercial.

This distance makes me more cautious because a lot of people take these things really seriously, and it is not very nice to get into a situation where you know you are not really going to be interacting from the same wavelength so to speak. Not that my wavelength is higher or anything...

I don't think there is anything wrong with never having had a partner cuz that means you have not royally screwed anyone over. Since I have, I can tell you that it is not a good thing to have scratched on the inside of your brain. And when the stars align so to speak, it could be a really wonderful process of discovery.

I have had an experience that I considered "human" for lack of better words, and from it, I suspect that when you care for someone and he/she cares for you, thoughts about how inexperienced you are simply aren't part of the trip.

We can't afford to be frozen socially, but a lot of modern attitudes about sex and relationships and all the experiences we are supposed to have are a bunch of trouble-in-paradise, I-deserve-porn-star-orgasms-cuz-I-am-me bullcrap.
 
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