finding partners...

I suppose one aspect of being chronically single all your life is having to deal with that internal 'friction' or 'battle against' yourself that is brought on when you come up against social & Internal expectations plus just a comparison against what people around you are experiencing. You know, it becomes this thing that is going on inside you, a personal internal battle, trying to make sense of the situation - do you accept it? do you try and figure out what's happening and why? is it normal? etc... Hey, we are all human right? We want to have friends, we have 'sexual' drive, we want to experience love and connection etc. All normal right? When you are cut off for whatever reason from that human experience then this huge internal thing just springs up... I wonder how you can use that positively as opposed to letting it eat away at your self-esteem or your perception of yourself e.g. making you think "You know what, I'm unlovable, no one cares etc" and spiralling into never ending negative thought loops that take hold and before you know it, it's all got so dark and you've become disconnected from humanity and have just become this individual thrown into a cruel world to suffer alone and in silence.

The different polarities of thought that spring up when faced by what appears like a permanent situation and the interplay between them is interesting and I would say natural. It'd be weird if you didn't think there was something wrong somewhere or if you just had the one thought but not the other (it's all wrong or it's all right etc) when faced with a situation that is clearly anomalous and strikes right at the core of who and what we are supposed to be - Beings designed to live in socially rewarding and fulfilling environments.

It's all such a minefield, yet for some people, it just happens in a sleep walking state and for others, you've got to traverse whole mountain ranges. Might be blowing it slightly out of proportion but from my perspective, you can't help but wonder why something that the vast majority of the population do naturally is stunted and stifled in oneself - looking ahead to see nothing but scary looking summits shrouded in clouds that one must overcome.

My foray into trying to undo my situation has taken me to that most dreaded of places, making 'friends' with girls and nothing more. I say dreaded because well, it hurts when you realize you've been friend-zoned... Seriously, I've been trying but my way (in my attempt to bypass my fear of getting all physical too quickly) is to get to know the person and work at building a soulful bond - not so you can never share anything physical, but rather so that when you do share something physical, it means something more if that makes sense. I tell you what, this strategy leads straight to the friendship zone like you cannot believe... you become the person that has to sit there and listen to all the regrettable mistakes they've made when it comes to boys (none of which are you!) - this is when you know you've been friend-zoned btw! It's crazy and so I decided to watch and use my eyes to see what successful guys around me are doing and alas, my error is in trying to get to know them by way of building some connection by talking about their lives, dreams, hopes etc and other such similar stuff where all of a sudden you get mistaken for a friend and a friend only if not a complete loser who has somehow failed in their biological imperative to state their sexual intent (by virtue of being an alpha male or a pretend one!) at the earliest possible opportunity in the most non-direct yet direct way in order to show social intelligence and nuance (God almighty, society is to advanced for us Neanderthals nowadays!)... here comes tinder and it's just a matter of a right or left swipe, a few messages exchanged, a meet up at a bar, a shared evening at either persons house and that's that, onto the next. That's how it's done by the pros nowadays, the masters of human intergender interaction. Not lying, it's all so very true.

(Last paragraph was just a mini-rant :D)
 
Hey Luke,

I am still young man and It's many to learn yet, but I noticed some things which are universal for most girls and women. At first, important is sense of closeness and safety. I have 4. ground rules when interacting with a woman/girl.

1) smile :) it's sick to smile in every situation as a clown, but the smile shows confidence, positive attitude, inner energy, so remember about smile, it's important.

2) eye contact: I stare into girls' eyes almost instantly, but in order to girl doesn't feel uncomfortable I skip from one her eye to other her eye and sometimes I look at the side.

3) pacing, mirroring: if you have a chance to observe pairs of lovers, they become similar to each other: take similar posture, they gesture in a similar manner, and even use the same words.

4) touch and break the woman's comfort zone in a subtle way: it brings together, builds a bond; the touch should be confident and authoritative; first touch the forearm, then, for example, shoulder and back, but do not hold her for long, because, as in the case of eye-contact, girl may feel uncomfortable. In short: touch briefly but confident and lordly, and escalate touch when you see that she feel good with it.

When you have a good contact you can move on to the next step. Well, it's hard to describe it what is a really going... :) I usually allow that instincts go to the fore and enjoy the interaction. When girl is encouraged, feels good, is open, circumstances and surroundings are properly, it's just the time to take to work. When I wasn't sure whether girl is interested in the same as I. I first talk to her what I want. If the response was positive, it is known what to do next. If not, it's to give a peace and don't continue to bother her, apparently pickup was failed.

You can use your interaction with female-friends, to ask what kind of men they like. I think that this is interesting subject to discusse with woman, they are more interested in interpersonal relations and what's connecting with it, and in the same time you can learn new things about how girls see us, and then use this knowledge in life.
 
lux said:
1) smile :) it's sick to smile in every situation as a clown, but the smile shows confidence, positive attitude, inner energy, so remember about smile, it's important.

2) eye contact: I stare into girls' eyes almost instantly, but in order to girl doesn't feel uncomfortable I skip from one her eye to other her eye and sometimes I look at the side.

3) pacing, mirroring: if you have a chance to observe pairs of lovers, they become similar to each other: take similar posture, they gesture in a similar manner, and even use the same words.

4) touch and break the woman's comfort zone in a subtle way: it brings together, builds a bond; the touch should be confident and authoritative; first touch the forearm, then, for example, shoulder and back, but do not hold her for long, because, as in the case of eye-contact, girl may feel uncomfortable. In short: touch briefly but confident and lordly, and escalate touch when you see that she feel good with it.

When you have a good contact you can move on to the next step. Well, it's hard to describe it what is a really going... :) I usually allow that instincts go to the fore and enjoy the interaction. When girl is encouraged, feels good, is open, circumstances and surroundings are properly, it's just the time to take to work. When I wasn't sure whether girl is interested in the same as I. I first talk to her what I want. If the response was positive, it is known what to do next. If not, it's to give a peace and don't continue to bother her, apparently pickup was failed.
Click to expand...

Hi lux,

I'm sorry and don't mean to sound harsh here, but the above sounds to me like a manual on how to manipulate a woman, IOW so as to make it easier to prey on her and get from her what you want. If the above is something you do as some sort of a regular habit, I find that concerning and definitely not something to present to others in a way that makes it look OK or "experienced", when it is simply stalking and preying and thus disrespecting a woman, not to mention that, from the way you present it, it looks like your general attitude towards women is very restricted in that it's focused on the sexual drive and getting what you want from whoever happens to fall for your "strategy".
 
Aiming said:
lux said:
1) smile :) it's sick to smile in every situation as a clown, but the smile shows confidence, positive attitude, inner energy, so remember about smile, it's important.

2) eye contact: I stare into girls' eyes almost instantly, but in order to girl doesn't feel uncomfortable I skip from one her eye to other her eye and sometimes I look at the side.

3) pacing, mirroring: if you have a chance to observe pairs of lovers, they become similar to each other: take similar posture, they gesture in a similar manner, and even use the same words.

4) touch and break the woman's comfort zone in a subtle way: it brings together, builds a bond; the touch should be confident and authoritative; first touch the forearm, then, for example, shoulder and back, but do not hold her for long, because, as in the case of eye-contact, girl may feel uncomfortable. In short: touch briefly but confident and lordly, and escalate touch when you see that she feel good with it.

When you have a good contact you can move on to the next step. Well, it's hard to describe it what is a really going... :) I usually allow that instincts go to the fore and enjoy the interaction. When girl is encouraged, feels good, is open, circumstances and surroundings are properly, it's just the time to take to work. When I wasn't sure whether girl is interested in the same as I. I first talk to her what I want. If the response was positive, it is known what to do next. If not, it's to give a peace and don't continue to bother her, apparently pickup was failed.
Click to expand...

Hi lux,

I'm sorry and don't mean to sound harsh here, but the above sounds to me like a manual on how to manipulate a woman, IOW so as to make it easier to prey on her and get from her what you want. If the above is something you do as some sort of a regular habit, I find that concerning and definitely not something to present to others in a way that makes it look OK or "experienced", when it is simply stalking and preying and thus disrespecting a woman, not to mention that, from the way you present it, it looks like your general attitude towards women is very restricted in that it's focused on the sexual drive and getting what you want from whoever happens to fall for your "strategy".
Click to expand...
This is true, Aiming, but I think in this case it's important to keep in mind that there is good and evil and the specific circumstances that determine which is which. The term "friendship zone" and the techniques Lux mentions all come out of the "how to pick up girls" literature. But I remember Laura writing once that normal men can learn a lot from how predatory psychopaths approach women in the early stages. Not so that normal men can become predatory but because the psychopaths, in their imitation of what women want, can maybe teach men how to give towards women but in a non-predatory way (looking into their eyes, making them feel special, valuing them, all the things that pathologicals pretend to do. It's kind of like any social skill, such as "how to make friends and influence people." The distinction is in how and why you use the techniques. Or it's like marketing and advertising, which is clearly predatory and exploitative, but can offer techniques to get the truth out there by using the tricks of pathologicals for good purposes.

So for Luke who is struggling with this issue, awareness of some of these primate social mores may be useful. As someone who has been married for a long time and is older, it would be easy for me to tell Luke, don't worry about finding a partner, work on yourself, wait for the right situation, but I do remember having similar struggles and angst when I was young. It's quite a dilemma, except that it's not a dilemma for pathologicals and predatory types, more like an orchard without a fence. As for Lux, maybe he can clarify what he uses these tricks for.
 
Aiming said:
lux said:
1) smile :) it's sick to smile in every situation as a clown, but the smile shows confidence, positive attitude, inner energy, so remember about smile, it's important.

2) eye contact: I stare into girls' eyes almost instantly, but in order to girl doesn't feel uncomfortable I skip from one her eye to other her eye and sometimes I look at the side.

3) pacing, mirroring: if you have a chance to observe pairs of lovers, they become similar to each other: take similar posture, they gesture in a similar manner, and even use the same words.

4) touch and break the woman's comfort zone in a subtle way: it brings together, builds a bond; the touch should be confident and authoritative; first touch the forearm, then, for example, shoulder and back, but do not hold her for long, because, as in the case of eye-contact, girl may feel uncomfortable. In short: touch briefly but confident and lordly, and escalate touch when you see that she feel good with it.

When you have a good contact you can move on to the next step. Well, it's hard to describe it what is a really going... :) I usually allow that instincts go to the fore and enjoy the interaction. When girl is encouraged, feels good, is open, circumstances and surroundings are properly, it's just the time to take to work. When I wasn't sure whether girl is interested in the same as I. I first talk to her what I want. If the response was positive, it is known what to do next. If not, it's to give a peace and don't continue to bother her, apparently pickup was failed.
Click to expand...

Hi lux,

I'm sorry and don't mean to sound harsh here, but the above sounds to me like a manual on how to manipulate a woman, IOW so as to make it easier to prey on her and get from her what you want. If the above is something you do as some sort of a regular habit, I find that concerning and definitely not something to present to others in a way that makes it look OK or "experienced", when it is simply stalking and preying and thus disrespecting a woman, not to mention that, from the way you present it, it looks like your general attitude towards women is very restricted in that it's focused on the sexual drive and getting what you want from whoever happens to fall for your "strategy".
Click to expand...

Well, I don't feel that my general attitude is restricted, I never went to bed with woman just for sex. I had such opportunities and rejected.

To have an intelligent and beautiful woman with whom you really want to be, you have to do one's best, and learn skills in order to invite her into your life. This is my experience.

My relationships were not ideal, but no girl felt used by me - there were no complaints on me. I don't hurt any girl. But if I did it, I don't know anything about this.

If comes to relationships, I try to convey what I have the best of what fascinated me, and perhaps maybe it also will be interested for a girl so I am sharing it with her.
 
Aiming said:
lux said:
1) smile :) it's sick to smile in every situation as a clown, but the smile shows confidence, positive attitude, inner energy, so remember about smile, it's important.

2) eye contact: I stare into girls' eyes almost instantly, but in order to girl doesn't feel uncomfortable I skip from one her eye to other her eye and sometimes I look at the side.

3) pacing, mirroring: if you have a chance to observe pairs of lovers, they become similar to each other: take similar posture, they gesture in a similar manner, and even use the same words.

4) touch and break the woman's comfort zone in a subtle way: it brings together, builds a bond; the touch should be confident and authoritative; first touch the forearm, then, for example, shoulder and back, but do not hold her for long, because, as in the case of eye-contact, girl may feel uncomfortable. In short: touch briefly but confident and lordly, and escalate touch when you see that she feel good with it.

When you have a good contact you can move on to the next step. Well, it's hard to describe it what is a really going... :) I usually allow that instincts go to the fore and enjoy the interaction. When girl is encouraged, feels good, is open, circumstances and surroundings are properly, it's just the time to take to work. When I wasn't sure whether girl is interested in the same as I. I first talk to her what I want. If the response was positive, it is known what to do next. If not, it's to give a peace and don't continue to bother her, apparently pickup was failed.
Click to expand...

Hi lux,

I'm sorry and don't mean to sound harsh here, but the above sounds to me like a manual on how to manipulate a woman, IOW so as to make it easier to prey on her and get from her what you want. If the above is something you do as some sort of a regular habit, I find that concerning and definitely not something to present to others in a way that makes it look OK or "experienced", when it is simply stalking and preying and thus disrespecting a woman, not to mention that, from the way you present it, it looks like your general attitude towards women is very restricted in that it's focused on the sexual drive and getting what you want from whoever happens to fall for your "strategy".
Click to expand...

I don't see anything wrong with this, in fact it's basic "talking to girls 101". It's the kind of thing that normal guys who are not traumatized or stifled in their bodies do. This comes back to Laura's earlier comment about teaching oneself to get on in this world.

As someone who grew up with absolutely zero social skills, crippled by anxiety and discomfort in social situations, consciously learning how to socialize has been of tremendous help. Not just with girls, but in many situations: including low grade banter at work, meeting people at parties and get-togethers, planning projects, negotiating with my boss, or even casually asking someone for a lighter and chit-chating. A few years back I couldn't do any of this. Now it's becoming more natural as I get better, but I can still observe the very interesting social dynamics that most people are oblivious to because they grew up taking it all for granted.

To luke I would say (tentatively, and please call me out if this is inappropriate), go and run some game with women and learn sexual dynamics through experience. It's better than feeling bitter, crippled and frustrated.
 
Carl said:
Aiming said:
Hi lux,

I'm sorry and don't mean to sound harsh here, but the above sounds to me like a manual on how to manipulate a woman, IOW so as to make it easier to prey on her and get from her what you want. If the above is something you do as some sort of a regular habit, I find that concerning and definitely not something to present to others in a way that makes it look OK or "experienced", when it is simply stalking and preying and thus disrespecting a woman, not to mention that, from the way you present it, it looks like your general attitude towards women is very restricted in that it's focused on the sexual drive and getting what you want from whoever happens to fall for your "strategy".
Click to expand...

I don't see anything wrong with this, in fact it's basic "talking to girls 101". It's the kind of thing that normal guys who are not traumatized or stifled in their bodies do. This comes back to Laura's earlier comment about teaching oneself to get on in this world.

As someone who grew up with absolutely zero social skills, crippled by anxiety and discomfort in social situations, consciously learning how to socialize has been of tremendous help. Not just with girls, but in many situations: including low grade banter at work, meeting people at parties and get-togethers, planning projects, negotiating with my boss, or even casually asking someone for a lighter and chit-chating. A few years back I couldn't do any of this. Now it's becoming more natural as I get better, but I can still observe the very interesting social dynamics that most people are oblivious to because they grew up taking it all for granted.

To luke I would say (tentatively, and please call me out if this is inappropriate), go and run some game with women and learn sexual dynamics through experience. It's better than feeling bitter, crippled and frustrated.
Click to expand...
I think I see what you're getting at, Carl, but I wouldn't go out and advise someone to "run some game" just to learn sexual dynamics. I think keeping the Aim in mind is important. It's a jungle out there, and people should be really careful about sex, particularly. If some of these tactics are used to create a real relationship (but how is that even possible with non-colinear people?) that may be one thing. Luke is frustrated now, understandably, but sexual relationships in everyday life are dangerous and not what they're cracked up to be. Sometimes experience is the best teacher, but a genius learns from the mistakes of others!
 
Personally I find no problem with Lux's first two points. Smiling is important as well as eye contact IMO. My experiences tell me this and I've always had problems with them. I'm not what you would call "a smiler" and I hate to think that I'm coming across as fake, especially as I can usually spot fake smiles easily. There are "polite smiles" and those in between ones - smirking, half-smiles that kind of thing. When I don't find something that someone says particularly amusing I will do the above (I still feel fake) but when I DO find it amusing I will give a beaming smile or a hearty laugh and I always think this comes across better. Eye contact has always been the real trouble for me. When I was becoming more aware of social conventions (for which I didn't really agree with or understand) I began to struggle, seeing others doing this (or not - macho stuff) and the fact that they didn't seem to care, made me more aware of my own supposed deficiencies.

Up to today I don't always make eye contact in face-to-face conversations but it has got easier as I've made a concerted effort. But I still feel funny doing it (kinda like a staring match - who blinks first type of thing) and try to step back a few paces so I can see their whole face better. How this would be interpreted by a woman I'm attracted to I don't know. Basically I'm saying these two things are important with ANYONE but maybe more so with women. I think I understand most of the gender differences when it comes to sexual relationships (I understand romance, I just feel cheesy doing romantic things... I blame tv LOL) but I think it's better to just be friendly with women/girls. Outside of THE WORK this is true but more so IN IT. My subjective experiences have shown me that even when I didn't find someone particularly attractive physically, when I got to know them (usually I didn't try, just worked out that way) I DID find them attract physically. Which was always weird, but I'm well used to that now. The tendency for me was to find a girl (in my late teens early twenties) that I found attractive and just observing the way they carried themselves and treated others (and dressed - skimpy) would put me off. So personality became the main thing for me and still is. And I've always got on with women (and men) much older than me anyway, it's a maturity thing - being more mature than my peers.

Of course if you are just out to have sex, giving in to the urge then it seems to me that you're invariably going to be manipulating situations and people. And as Mr Premise said the issue of co-linear people is going to be all important. Better not to "look for love" (or sex) and just work on being the best human being that one can be, if a potential partner is out there, then trust in oneself and the DCM that you'll meet them in this lifetime.
 
Thanks, Lux, for clarifying, and Carl and Ascien for your perspectives on the topic. I wasn't taking into account the context of the situation, as pointed out by Mr. Premise, that this can be part of learning/having a social skills set and that it's of course the intention behind it that makes the difference. I also remember reading from Laura how the strategies used by predatory men can teach normal men how to get over their hang-ups in relation to women, and if there were more normal men practising these skills, perhaps it would even be easier for women not to fall for the predator's caricature/imitation of the real thing.

I was reacting to the "101", which, emotionally, I read as a manipulation manual from the lens of having predatory men use it for sexual exploitation. So I read Lux's post through a narrowed emotional lense - classic example of being triggered and misreading a situation and having one's perception skewed by honing in on only a small perspective (splitting and going into black-and-white-thinking).
 
Interesting discussion. I totally agree with what the guys said but I also agree with Aiming's initial reaction. Only in that, part of the skill set Lux described is used not to really get to know women but rather to get to the next level of 'being with her' i.e. of sleeping or getting physical with her (point number 4 in particular). At some point in the deployment of this skill set, you've decided that, that is what you want so it is manipulation in a way but I am not saying it's bad. It's only manipulation in the way that you are using a skill set on her that is designed to make her like you by pushing those buttons that cause her to bond with you so that you can get physical with her. My whole point is that at some point in this whole process, you just have to be selfish i.e. it becomes what YOU want and to get it, you have to act a certain way. Maybe after, you can change tact and the relationship can become wholesome.

I befriended this girl recently and at the same time she also befriended someone I know. Both of us met her at exactly the same time and at exactly the same place and our initial interaction was done simultaneously - Yup, you read that right. That evening 3 of us walked back together to our houses but I took a turn to a shop leaving them 2 together - I was silly I didn't know. She went on to sleep with him minutes later but we had exchanged numbers at that point and have since gone on to be friends. Any ways, she told me she slept with him because basically she could tell he had that intent that night, the way he was looking at her, the way he dominated her with his stare etc. She almost put it in a way that she didn't have much choice. However, she also told me that this happens quite a lot and that she is aware of this type of guy because in the morning, she always feels bad, like she has somehow been cheated that the skill set that was used on her did not reflect how the guy felt in terms of who she was, that it was just a matter of getting her to bed. She felt bad because well none of the guys went on to like or love her, you know, she didn't get that fairytale romance. But nonetheless this is the only type of guy she gets with, guys who can deploy that skill set... It just so happens those who can do it effortlessly happen to be for a lack of a better word, predatory. So I am the guy who she went on to be friends with and gets to hear her stories and my friend is the guy who she slept with the one night which was the sum total of their relationship. My friend has gone to sleep with multiple girls since as this is how his type operates and I suspect if he wanted to he could get her in bed again despite any initial resistance she may put up because in her description what she regretted is not that she sleeps with these types of guys but rather that they don't go on to make her their number one. And this is why I agree with Aiming... last when I met up with her, I took the moment, when I was sat opposite her listening to her talk and thought to myself, What would I have to do to get her in bed, and I also noticed that I have not put forward that intent at all, despite showing interest in her as a person, I have not taken the risk to show that I find her attractive and someone that I would like to get physical with... comparing with my friend, he put this forward almost immediately and bypassed the whole friendship thing. So in a way, what I learnt is that you have to get over your hang up and show intent sooner before you fall into that friendship trap because once you are in that zone, it just becomes weird to show that all of a sudden you always found them attractive but didn't know how to go about it.

Hey I am fully aware the story above has nothing to do with co-linearity, I have to admit I am more looking for someone that I just get along with and who likes me back and who accepts that having differences in world view doesn't necessarily have to lead to hostility but rather can be an opportunity for learning and growth as you both realize what is important, which is the bond you have.
 
1) smile it's sick to smile in every situation as a clown, but the smile shows confidence, positive attitude, inner energy, so remember about smile, it's important.

2) eye contact: I stare into girls' eyes almost instantly, but in order to girl doesn't feel uncomfortable I skip from one her eye to other her eye and sometimes I look at the side.

3) pacing, mirroring: if you have a chance to observe pairs of lovers, they become similar to each other: take similar posture, they gesture in a similar manner, and even use the same words.

4) touch and break the woman's comfort zone in a subtle way: it brings together, builds a bond; the touch should be confident and authoritative; first touch the forearm, then, for example, shoulder and back, but do not hold her for long, because, as in the case of eye-contact, girl may feel uncomfortable. In short: touch briefly but confident and lordly, and escalate touch when you see that she feel good with it.
Click to expand...

SMH...

1) Every situation is different

2) what if the women just lost her job and she is upset and your smiling constant eye contact is annoying to her BC she is frushstrated

3) What if she just got out of a relationship and touching here makes her feel uncomfortable

4) every girl has a different upbringing friends, recent events, wounding, wants and likes. To try and map it out for the most part is futile

I don't think you are trying to manipulate women you are trying to have a "successful" interaction with every women you come in contact with. This isn't wrong but it's not life it's not society it's not possible.

Trust yourself in interactions with women not trying to follow guidelines but following the energy between you two and act accordingly. You can't come up with 4 numbers and 4 outlines and then have a perfect interaction with every women you interact with. Relax and trust yourself in the specific interaction. It also might help to go out not focusing on women but the music, food, friends, yourself
 
I'm always smiling and making eye contact, especially with new people, guy or girl. I also mimic folks when I'm in groups, depending on the setting. I won't touch someone though unless there's a relationship or context in which touching is okay. I also don't get too close to folks, especially women I've just met. One thing I learned in the last few years is that women do often worry about getting raped or sexually assaulted. It's nothing something men generally worry about or experience, although it does happen. Just something to be aware of.

I don't see anything particularly disturbing about lux's advice, but the context will varying from culture to culture and most especially between age groups and intent of the individual.
 
Humans are hard-wired to socialize with other humans and we have an innate drive to connect with others to get our belonging needs met. As traditional tribal/village life has been replaced in the last 100 or more years and more and more families are dysfunctional due to the Ponerization of modern society, most humans find it even more difficult to get their need for connection with others met. Add spending obsessive amounts of time working/playing in isolation with computers, on phones, and inter"facing" with technology instead of other people, while in the developmental ages of 2-25 or so, and you have a perfect recipe for a generation or two who lack even the most basic confidence and social skills to find and maintain a relationship with a significant other.

Luke is frustrated now, understandably, but sexual relationships in everyday life are dangerous and not what they're cracked up to be. Sometimes experience is the best teacher, but a genius learns from the mistakes of others!
Click to expand...

Too true. But, sometimes even age and experience aren't enough to help a person avoid a problematic or dangerous relationship when that person has not done a sufficient amount of Work on the self. After two previous marriages, years of therapy and other work on the self (focusing on co-dependency), I still entered into a third relationship at 42, and cohabitated for ten years with a partner who was so personality-disordered/psychopathic that it nearly killed me—because I had basic human needs that were not met in my developmental years, as do a majority of people these days, driving me to be in a relationship regardless of the cost.

The mistake being was that I sought to “complete,” “fix,” or “find” myself through having a relationship with another. These types of superficial, need-based relationships can meet ones need for sex, touch, and companionship for a while, but they often must be “paid for” with a bit of your soul or soul-growth potential, and often they do not last.

Research, experience, and observation show that once people get beyond looks, the single most powerful element that both sexes find attractive is CONFIDENCE. Not a false, ego-based bravado, but a calm, quiet, sense of self, and purpose, and worth that emanates from ones core being. People who have achieved this level of functionality inevitable attract others who want this quality—the trick then becomes selecting someone at a similar level so you can help each other, not dominate and take advantage by vampiring the other’s strengths to fulfill needs that you should have learned somewhere along the line to met yourself.

This is why old people like myself who have had a lot of relationships and sex tell young people to stop worrying about finding someone and work on yourself and the “right” person will come along. :lol:

This is also why young people who have overwhelming feelings of need will continue to enter into entirely dysfunctional relationships and get their hearts broken, mess up their lives, and suffer abuse—which, ironically, all contributes to learning some of the most important lessons about yourself and life you will ever experience. :shock:

So, IMHO, in the end, relationships are probably the most important knowledge-gaining experiences we have in life and we all have to learn one way or another.
So, strive to be kind. Keep your ego in check. “Learning is Fun.” and “All is Lessons.”
 
shellycheval said:
Research, experience, and observation show that once people get beyond looks, the single most powerful element that both sexes find attractive is CONFIDENCE. Not a false, ego-based bravado, but a calm, quiet, sense of self, and purpose, and worth that emanates from ones core being. People who have achieved this level of functionality inevitable attract others who want this quality—the trick then becomes selecting someone at a similar level so you can help each other, not dominate and take advantage by vampiring the other’s strengths to fulfill needs that you should have learned somewhere along the line to met yourself.

This is why old people like myself who have had a lot of relationships and sex tell young people to stop worrying about finding someone and work on yourself and the “right” person will come along. :lol:
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Menna has some interesting points and i think Shellycheval really nailed it. I have had no romantic relationships from the age of about 22 (i'm 30) and those i did have weren't intimate; so i am no relationship expert! As a teenager, amongst my friends i was like the neutral being; girls asked me why boys can't talk to them like i do, and boys asked how i could talk so easily to girls, granted we were younger, but i think it applies. The only difference was, i wasn't interested! And so conversations would flow easily and things weren't chosen on their potential influence on the other person. Which is i think where it can get into murky territory.

And i think this feeds into confidence, when your intention is just to treat the other person with consideration and to just let the relationship become, the other person can 'feel' this. It seems to me there's a lot of anticipation built in to this dynamic we are discussing, which i think is part of the problem. I think.
 
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