finding partners...

[Alada]

'If I can't contain myself?' Ha! Why do people keep using phrases that imply you have no control or you are like some pavlovian dog...

Another surprising statement, considering you have read Laura’s work, ISOTM, and participate regularly here.

Ya’ll really ought to review some things quickly, starting with the idea that man is a machine perhaps. Then, try to find ways to prove this idea for yourself, as it applies to you yourself, from your own observations life and experiences. Try to observe without self-justification or sefl-pity clouding the picture, to realise our mechanical nature without a shadow of a doubt. Maybe then many other connected ideas can become more comprehensible.

 

[Keyhole]

'If I can't contain myself?' Ha! Why do people keep using phrases that imply you have no control or you are like some pavlovian dog...

Another surprising statement, considering you have read Laura’s work, ISOTM, and participate regularly here.

Ya’ll really ought to review some things quickly, starting with the idea that man is a machine perhaps. Then, try to find ways to prove this idea for yourself, as it applies to you yourself, from your own observations life and experiences. Try to observe without self-justification or sefl-pity clouding the picture, to realise our mechanical nature without a shadow of a doubt. Maybe then many other connected ideas can become more comprehensible.

This is a important point Luke. If you have properly internalised alot of the information in those works and applied it to yourself, then why would you assume that you have any control over your machine?

 

[RedFox]

I think reading Strangers To Ourselves, Thinking Fast And Slow, and You're Not So Smart may be really good books to start with.

In the mean time, these may be a good starting point:
SOTT EXCLUSIVE: Do humans really have 'free will'? Only if you work on your machine - and you can only Work on your machine if you get a glimpse that you are mechanical, despite how terrifying that is.
We are all confident idiots: 'The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is a knowledge of our own ignorance' - part of that mechanicalness is constantly making up stories about how intelligent we are to cover our own ignorance. We can't change if we can't see this.

As for examples of your mechanicalness, how are you feeling after reading all these replies? What automatic things is that feeling making you do?
Have you forgotten that we are all in the same boat, for example? And that part of the Work is to point out when someone is asleep?

Is your mind already making up stories as to why none of this applies to you - automatically? Or that you are somehow a failure (to avoid touching the idea that we are all mechanical) - automatically? Want to write a post about how you disagree with some points - automatically? Or write a post where you agree with everything so the subject never comes up again - automatically?

When people mention "The terror of the situation" they are referring to seeing and feeling the horror our own mechanicalness, even for just a nano-second.

How long can you stay with that feeling without your mind/body doing something automatically to prevent you feeling that?
That was the whole point of the Dialectic Toolset thread, and the Monkey book - tools and practical things that allow these terrible feelings exist in awareness for more than a nano-second.

*edit to add*

I can't find the exact Gurdjieff quote, but the gist is that first man should try and change nothing, but observe and catalog his mechanicalness.

 

[lainey]

I can't find the exact Gurdjieff quote, but the gist is that first man should try and change nothing, but observe and catalog his mechanicalness.

And that this process takes a long time, I'm talking years here of constant self observation before we start scratching the surface of our mechanicalness and start fighting against it; fighting to stay awake. Writing out lists of our programs and little 'I's.
I'll second the books RedFox suggested. I've read the first two and they were really eye opening.
I'm interested as to what brought you to the forum and why you follow the work?

 

[luke wilson]

I can't find the exact Gurdjieff quote, but the gist is that first man should try and change nothing, but observe and catalog his mechanicalness.

And that this process takes a long time, I'm talking years here of constant self observation before we start scratching the surface of our mechanicalness and start fighting against it; fighting to stay awake. Writing out lists of our programs and little 'I's.
I'll second the books RedFox suggested. I've read the first two and they were really eye opening.
I'm interested as to what brought you to the forum and why you follow the work?

I was born into the forum really. I didn't have years of making mistakes, gaining life experience through this or any of that stuff that many people talk about. Hmmm, maybe porn was the major mistake I did if I have to pick something, cant think of others. I ran into the forum doing what I always did during my childhood, learning that the world is not what it appears. As to the actual forum itself as in coming across the site, someone left a link somewhere on the interwebs on something I was reading. The link was to an article in sott, then from their it wasn't to hard to find the forum. For a number of years, there was nothing that went up on sott that escaped my sight. I may have not been much of a book reader but I scoured that site like no ones business, gobbled up info, always read all articles being put up. I also scoured the forum and read quite a few historic threads here. I remember being baffled by who this Cs were and asking someone here who the hell is this Cs everyone talks about. Channeled material, hyper dimensional beings.... What the hell are those? I was to naive, still am... Lol! I'll tell you what made me stay, the people. I liked sott and I liked the people on the forum, so I hang about. I ignored the diet & health section though, in those days.. :D always sent me to sleep... The excitement was in earth changes, puppet masters etc... Lol

Nowadays its different I feel fatigue. I've lost the zip. Things on sott are replaying, just different actors but seen the plays before, you already know the conclusion, the twists and turns, always looking for the new thing, the new angle but this are far apart. The ptb do the same thing over and over but I suppose every now and again they do something new.

I try and follow the work to the best of my abilities but obviously there is always more you can do. Regarding groking how mechanical we are, I had a solid like 3 years of anart pounding me with that stick, in a very direct and downright unforgiving way imaginable. Pure Armageddon. I like to think something stuck regarding grasping the content given the whole experience felt like a period of being at the core of a star under intense heat and pressure. Yaaaay to survival! Whoop whoop!!

 

[Ina]

Dear Jamie,

It might sound stupid, however, trying to find a ' date partner' on fitted according to your mental constructs plus lifestyle can only present you with a well designed robot.

Have you tried taking a trip to a place that you are being inspired by? Real partners can also be 'out there' meaning geography rather than an ip address.

kind regards

 

[lainey]

I can't find the exact Gurdjieff quote, but the gist is that first man should try and change nothing, but observe and catalog his mechanicalness.

And that this process takes a long time, I'm talking years here of constant self observation before we start scratching the surface of our mechanicalness and start fighting against it; fighting to stay awake. Writing out lists of our programs and little 'I's.
I'll second the books RedFox suggested. I've read the first two and they were really eye opening.
I'm interested as to what brought you to the forum and why you follow the work?

I was born into the forum really. I didn't have years of making mistakes, gaining life experience through this or any of that stuff that many people talk about. Hmmm, maybe porn was the major mistake I did if I have to pick something, cant think of others. I ran into the forum doing what I always did during my childhood, learning that the world is not what it appears. As to the actual forum itself as in coming across the site, someone left a link somewhere on the interwebs on something I was reading. The link was to an article in sott, then from their it wasn't to hard to find the forum. For a number of years, there was nothing that went up on sott that escaped my sight. I may have not been much of a book reader but I scoured that site like no ones business, gobbled up info, always read all articles being put up. I also scoured the forum and read quite a few historic threads here. I remember being baffled by who this Cs were and asking someone here who the hell is this Cs everyone talks about. Channeled material, hyper dimensional beings.... What the hell are those? I was to naive, still am... Lol! I'll tell you what made me stay, the people. I liked sott and I liked the people on the forum, so I hang about. I ignored the diet & health section though, in those days.. :D always sent me to sleep... The excitement was in earth changes, puppet masters etc... Lol

Nowadays its different I feel fatigue. I've lost the zip. Things on sott are replaying, just different actors but seen the plays before, you already know the conclusion, the twists and turns, always looking for the new thing, the new angle but this are far apart. The ptb do the same thing over and over but I suppose every now and again they do something new.

I try and follow the work to the best of my abilities but obviously there is always more you can do. Regarding groking how mechanical we are, I had a solid like 3 years of anart pounding me with that stick, in a very direct and downright unforgiving way imaginable. Pure Armageddon. I like to think something stuck regarding grasping the content given the whole experience felt like a period of being at the core of a star under intense heat and pressure. Yaaaay to survival! Whoop whoop!!

Ok, it's good that you are sharing to give something back to the people who have put so much hard work into building this. If you feel like things are repetitive then perhaps your aim could be to share what you now know about the world with others who don't know. It's always good to refresh your memory about how bad things are here on the BBM. So many people stick their head in the sand but it's important to reach out to those who are willing to learn who may not have discovered the forum like you did. There is always someone on the step behind you and I think it is a noble aim to be able to help those people take one step forward.
I know there was a session where some of the sott editors mentioned like they felt like they repeated the same stories over and over but they keep on at it because that is one of the functions of the lighthouse. (Sorry I can't remember which session)
Do you feel like you really want to work on your machine and progress spiritually? I'm just trying to get to know you a little better and understand your motivations for being here. I might be wrong but it seems like you are more into the news and world events side than the search for the philosophers stone side (meaning cleaning your machine and developing internally and forging a true self)?
I'm sure others will chime in if I'm picking this up incorrectly.

 

[Mr. Premise]

We're your mother, Luke! :P

 

[luke wilson]

Do you feel like you really want to work on your machine and progress spiritually?

Who would answer no to this question.. :D Yes, I do! What that entails on the other hand is hard to know. How to measure it is also hard to know. For example lets say I say, I'll take today as a starting point, take some form of measurement now... work on myself.... in future take another measurement. How can you know you've made progress? How can you measure it. What do you even measure?

I do consider myself spiritual but that is also ambiguous. What does it mean? How can you measure that?

I'm not scientist and I'm not looking for empirical proof but with some of these concepts it's hard to know what progress is.

I can say, ok, I'm mechanical and I'll always be mechanical no matter how hard I try. Or I can say, I am mechanical and if I try I may be less mechanical... But how do you know? At any one point when you do something, when you think something, how can you know if that is mechanical or if it isn't? How do you know. How does anyone know? Is it by seeking external validation, is it by internal validation? Maybe by both? Do you know?

Am I overthinking it? Should I stop thinking about it? But how can I figure it out if I don't think about it? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....?

I might be wrong but it seems like you are more into the news and world events side than the search for the philosophers stone side (meaning cleaning your machine and developing internally and forging a true self)?

When you say 'more into the news and world events' I immediately think joe and niall. They are like the points of reference. I would consider myself light years from there but at least their is a point of reference. I am curious about events, some pique my interest, others don't. Sometimes I get an impression about something and I stick by it, use that as my beacon on the horizon, which sometimes it means I can miss all the little subtleties along the way e.g. Greece, I was pretty sure about the final result, but all the twists and turns in between, I didn't care much about, seemed to dizzying, was just like, I already know how it'll end so why bother if the PM did it because he's a snake or because he had no other choice. The result is the same. And can you really know he had no other choice... It doesn't matter, result is the same at the end of the day. All the analysts can analyse until the world end, won't change the result. Ok, so sometimes it's like that. Other times it's like I have no idea... actor theory.. is this real? Then I read and learn based on what is said.

I am also interested in forging a true self but I need to know what that is, I need to wrestle with the idea of what this manifestation of the true self is. I need to forge an image of this. An image that I can apply to myself. I can then measure that image as a point to aim to. Otherwise someone might just say the 'true self' but really what is it? How do you know if you are there? Do you know?

Cleaning my machine.. ok, I'm abit slack on that. Obviously porn is one issue, sugar is another for me personally, more refined exercise regime yet another, taking in the right information, discarding the wrong etc.

Still a lot to do but also still a lot to frame in the mental sphere.

 

[Chu]

Many of the last posts in this thread have nothing to to with "finding partners", and it looks like a private journal where nothing is getting across, and conditions are set as to how one must respond or not. Also, some of the topics have already been discussed elsewhere in this forum, and a simple search will help you find them.

I can say, ok, I'm mechanical and I'll always be mechanical no matter how hard I try. Or I can say, I am mechanical and if I try I may be less mechanical... But how do you know? At any one point when you do something, when you think something, how can you know if that is mechanical or if it isn't? How do you know. How does anyone know? Is it by seeking external validation, is it by internal validation? Maybe by both? Do you know?
[...]

I am also interested in forging a true self but I need to know what that is, I need to wrestle with the idea of what this manifestation of the true self is. I need to forge an image of this. An image that I can apply to myself. I can then measure that image as a point to aim to. Otherwise someone might just say the 'true self' but really what is it? How do you know if you are there? Do you know?

You know, at least in theory, the answer to these questions. Please Luke, take a few days and refrain from just dropping random thoughts here. Time to get a bit serious.

 

[Niall]

Do you feel like you really want to work on your machine and progress spiritually?

Who would answer no to this question.. :D Yes, I do!

This answer doesn't sound sincere. It sounds like you feel that you must answer affirmatively because that's what's expected of you. What you need to get your head around, Luke, is the fact that, really, we have zero expectations of you. We, and the Universe at large, are disinterested in whether or not Luke Wilson progresses or repeats the 3D experience. We're gonna keep pumping out the books, articles, videos, radio shows, forum research and networking. Whether or not Luke Wilson integrates into, and becomes colinear with, that expanding network is no skin off our teeth.

 

[luke wilson]

Do you feel like you really want to work on your machine and progress spiritually?

Who would answer no to this question.. :D Yes, I do!

This answer doesn't sound sincere. It sounds like you feel that you must answer affirmatively because that's what's expected of you. What you need to get your head around, Luke, is the fact that, really, we have zero expectations of you. We, and the Universe at large, are disinterested in whether or not Luke Wilson progresses or repeats the 3D experience. We're gonna keep pumping out the books, articles, videos, radio shows, forum research and networking. Whether or not Luke Wilson integrates into, and becomes colinear with, that expanding network is no skin off our teeth.

Thank you and that's how it should be and how it has always been. I wouldn't expect it to be any other way and my expectations wouldn't matter at all so there would be no reason to even waste energy in such thoughts and views. The answer to lainey was sincere. I have no reason to not want to work on my machine or progress spiritually, no reason at all.

Thank you everyone for all the responses and advice. I need to clearly sit down and think about all you said, the implications and let it sink in, that's the truth, honestly. I have no reason to lie or be dishonest with any of you and if I didn't feel comfortable being truthful I'd let you know.

 

[luke wilson]

On Marriage

http://<iframe width="560" height="...Jg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

On finding the 'right one'

http://<iframe width="560" height="...hY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

On Romanticism

http://<iframe width="560" height="...YQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

History of Love

http://<iframe width="560" height="...d0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

As of 2015 Belgium has the highest divorce rate... 70%

 

[Menna]

Who would answer no to this question

More people would answer "who has time for that" or "I would like to but..." or "who cares" rather than answer yes. I don't think you realize with all of your being how lucky you are to find the forum in this time frame on earth. It has only been around for a short time and here is an opportunity to do the work and grow as a person to live a life that goes towards your aim to figure out life a little and maybe a hint to answers of the great questions of the universe and learn objectively about yourself as a person.

Unfortunately you use the work to intellectually spin in circles without getting any real work done like a kid sitting infront of his homework doing everything and thinking about everything else instead of doing what is to be done in front of them. Its ok to live life and get hurt luke and unfortunately the more you waste time on here wisecaring the more you are hurting yourself because it is clear that real experience is laking. Who cares about those youtube videos what does that really have to do with anything times change will and always do using scripted words and scenes to explain something that isnt scripted left to chance and variable is futile. To be frank its frustrating to read some of the nonsense. I know I don't have to read it but I do read in hopes that I read some improvement/change in a positive direction but to be honest their is none. When I read half of your stuff I come to a point where I feel bad and I know I am over stepping a boundary here why should i feel bad that you are going around in circles? I shouldn't but the human part of me says to it self "here is a guy that deep down is scared and this emotion/feeling wont allow him to improve." Its annoying because you spend alot of time here have the potential to do the work and grasp it but you arent sincere enough to look at whats holding you back and really sit with it and come to terms with it. Its frustrating because I believe you are more of a good person than a bad person and you want nothing more than to be with someones and have a successful and loving relationship treat that partner well and be happy and thats great but its not going to happen anytime soon if you don't do something different in your life to create difference in you.

The 4th way is about living life not stepping outside for a breath of air then running back to the computer and complaining about the air and how you thought it would be fresher and intellectualizing on why the air wasn't so fresh. There has to be a change in your daily life and it has to come from a deep place and place of value I don't know how to make that happen and its not my job to but I feel you use the forum to a fault as a crutch. You can obviously do whatever it is you want. I use to reply to your posts because I know you want a positive relationship and would be so happy in one and want to treat another well not everyone wants to do this so I figured why not offer my experience and perspective from experience. I stopped replying to you for a while and felt like if you spend enough time on the forum change will happen. If there wasn't any chance for a lasting change I would not give my two cents here and im sure this will be followed by posts about how my post isn't nice but it contains sincerity and seariousness something that I believe can help you in the work.

 

[Nienna]

If there wasn't any chance for a lasting change I would not give my two cents here and im sure this will be followed by posts about how my post isn't nice but it contains sincerity and seariousness something that I believe can help you in the work.

I wouldn't worry about this, Menna. I know that you know that just being nice to a person instead of telling him/her what really needs to be said is not helping anyone at all. I think that what you said in the above post is something that needs to be said to Luke. He does need some shocks if he is ever going to wake up. And what you wrote has been done in a very gentle manner and does seem to be sincere - a friend who is trying to help a friend.

It is up to Luke if he takes this serious enough to want to change, if he even wants to change.