finding partners...

[mrelectric91]

I think the source for being 'undeserving' is to have only experienced rejection any time I try to get close to someone, I feel like there is always a shield I have to break through to merely become an acquaintance. Essentially powerlessness, its not in my hands whether or not I will experience intimacy.

Consider for a moment that intimacy is an earned value and it is a value for that reason - because it has to be earned. Feeling defeated after a rejection may be a sign that you have been caught thinking only about yourself, or giving an appearance of such. It's only rational to understand that people have a right to refuse connection, to reject others on any grounds or no grounds and you might want to consider what you bring to a possible relationship. What value do you have that another could reflect back to you and to see in you what they hold dear?

Well I am 23 born and raised in an inner city, so I can only speak from my context. I grew up in a violent household and violent part of town, so I saw the decisions my own mothers, sisters and cousins(I was raised around women) made at home and they weren't encouraging a pattern of aggressive men and abusiveness, they always told me to not be like that but those guys are not exactly repelling anyone. I had childhood friends who started getting involved in drugs and gangs and are still involved to this day and they were treated like saints, anywhere they go immediate respect. I think the lines between fear and love become blurred if you spend enough time around people like this. I'm not complaining I just feel unless I have those things/traits, ones presence is tolerated rather than welcomed at least in my environment.

In the inner city, it's perhaps unfortunate that there are few or no role models for the kind of interaction you want to have. It appears that your point of view on this is that in order to get the girls, you've got to be like the drug dealers and gang members. That's an option, but it's a dangerous one.

If you want to try a different way than what appears to be open to you, you may have to create the role model yourself. Perhaps act as though you had a son and you were his role model. The problem is that you will have to take things one step, one day at a time. Experimenting, trial and error, paying attention to feedback - just like you've done all your life so far. 23 years are invested to get you where you're at now, and change isn't likely to happen overnight. You'll need to start slowly and tentatively, getting to know yourself deep down, putting yourself out there and experiencing small successes at a time to give your brain time to rewire new, successful interaction patterns. This way, you may retain some confidence when or if you get rejected at some point.

If you know who you are and what you stand for and that it's all good, then you might start thinking of people who reject you as simply screening themselves out of your life so you won't have to.

Just some thoughts you should probably take with a grain of salt.

Well I'm going to be going to grad school next month, in a rural completely different environment for a year, that and the possible career possible path might open my reality.

The idea of creating the role model yourself, is very relevant to my current thinking. Maybe becoming a leader of one. I probably haven't experimented enough, and need to assume less. I think putting myself out there for small successes is what scares me, what if there are no small successes to build upon even if I take risk, or maybe there is integrity in the risk itself.

 

[mrelectric91]

Like many here my insecurities and programs seem to flare up most when interacting with the opposite sex. I'm a young male, sometimes it feels like I don't deserve to interact with women because I lack status, looks, aggressiveness etc are these blocks based on reality, or are they projections used to mask my lack of self compassion?

I think it's an opportunity to look at our programing and this includes a person's upbringing and subconscious urges. So, I guess it effects everyone, male and female alike, and ask ourselves the question: Is our behaviour or thinking a 'barrier' for something else? At least, I see it as an opportunity to ask why something exists... :D

Yes every interaction is a dance between those involved.

 

[casper]

Why do people become addicted to porn? Its because it taps into a primal part of the brain... This is exploitation of biology... the same way food companies force feed the masses bad food by making it so that it taps into addictive areas of the brain.

..........................................

For me, as with many people in the last 20 years or so.... the first introduction to sexuality was porn. Recently it dawned on me that this was sexual abuse. God dammit, I'm a victim of sexual abuse! It was something that was put into me without my knowledge of what it was. Firstly, my first encounter of it was being with a bunch of friends and we were watching a movie (days of vcr) then at some point one of them said he had a porn tape. Out of curiosity the rest said to put it on, I was shocked and walked out. First encounter was that of shock naturally. Then I next encountered it on the first 2nd hand computer I got in the files there. Shock moved to curiosity and curiosity moved to addiction.

Quote from the article:

Although the child may not seek pornography, she will find it. Facebook, Google, the entire internet, full of explicit content. Looking at such material, girls gain a completely wrong picture of how they should look and act. Entry into sex turned into a task that is evaluated



Link:
https://translate.google.hr/translate?sl=hr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=hr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.express.hr%2Fdrustvo%2Fcurice-prelako-gube-nevinost-one-su-laka-meta-modernog-doba-2055&edit-text=

The article talks about girls, I believe in the same position they are and the boys.
Since children today watch movies alone in a room on portable devices, innocent childhood takes less time, because children easier access to adult content. Children are under pressure to grow up faster, and parents are concerned about their exposure to sexual content and because of the impact it will have on development. Cursing and obscene language are accepted all normal and all the more common in the speech of children.
I think that pornography has gone too far .. :(

 

[Keyhole]

Its perfectly 'normal' for males to have had this upbringing in regard's to pornography. And i agree, it is something that really took advantage of the natural wiring. So its okay to be in the situation that you are in, in regards to that specific matter. But its just not something we want to be involved in anymore, especially when you can see the whole plot for what it is. And with all the videos, articles, forum's posts etc, it should give you the ammo to arm yourself with with the reasons of not being involved in that charade any longer.
[..]
Aim to be a stronger, more mature and wholly good person person. Someone who thrives, not just survives. I understand that currently it is very difficult to just survive, but the bigger aim of this kind of work is to become something more solid, bigger than our current self. This type of subject is something that is directly related to respect of others; both male and female. And it also is directly tied to emotions.
I can only talk from experience, as it has plagued males (and females) of our age for a long time. When you are talking about this competition, and the inability to escape from it, then leaving your body in 'reproduce' mode will not help. We need to scrap this wiring and let it slow down... As it serves us no use in our current situation. It is biology, but our actions can train it a hell of alot.

Well said.
In my own experience, over the past few weeks I have gone through a relapse a couple of times and succumbed to the desire to subject myself to the "filth". All I can say is that once you 'throw the dog a bone' once or twice, before you know it "the floodgates are open" and the habit begins to take hold again.

The way I can see that the habit is taking hold again is through observing the narratives I create to normalizing it, justify it and explaining the behaviour away. One "I" is convinced that pornography is not obectifying the women if it is the "respectful" type. There is a battle between two "I"s. The observing "I" can see straight through the narratives, but it is just too weak to fight and it actually feels like I consciously choose the 'dark side' sometimes. Understably this is just mechanical, but it is interesting to see.

The truth is Luke, I think the "only every once in a while" excuse is a poor one. The damage that being inflicted unconconsciously is too severe to be excused like that. With some things, such as pornography, moderation simply doesn't apply. This is something that takes serious will, effort and determination, and it CAN be stopped. I know this for a fact because I managed to get porn-free for quite a long time, and felt clean because of it.

 

[Carl]

I can't speak to whether the universe has hit me with the ugly stick in this life or previous lives. I think I'm in the average range of the spectrum, just another person in a sea of a billion people. The media hasn't really bombarded my gender with specific definitions of what it is to be ugly or beautiful, so it's not something that eats away at me inordinately. If anything, the program that my gender faces in terms of projection of "ugliness" or "beauty" is character (in the sense of projecting socially defined masculine attributes)/personality/humour/charm etc. You know inanimate things mostly. If you can project those qualities I suppose as a man you qualify as beautiful, if not then ugly.

If we change the definition to that, then I'm probably ugly and the universe has been bashing me with this stick since forever.

Irony of that is that you are discarding all other women in search of attractive ones while attractive ones will discard you for not having those qualities the society defines as attractive, to give you a feel of those other women that society does not define as attractive. Other thing, to find a women that is "attractive" in society terms and working on itself is like finding a rich men who will enter the Kingdom of heaven, very rare and unimportant. If I may ask you how old are you in general terms(early 20-ties, late 20-ties)?

Just wanted to comment on this because it is absolutely spot on. It's not just porn but the entire cultural obsession with narcissism and image. I can say from my experience so far that quite often the most physically beautiful people are some of the most empty inside. Possibly this is because attractive people tend to get a lot handed to them for free (especially females but also males) and generally have to work less in almost every area of life. For girls it's mostly looks. For guys it's more a fluid mixture of looks, status, height/size, confidence, social acuity etc. Some are given these qualities through genetics/upbringing and some are not - it's a lottery.

But a lot of this is temporary and probably meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Sure, your "biology" wants a pretty girl. But how much of that desire is also determined by social pressures: The need for status, to beat other males, to get the hot girl, to prove that you are worthy, to get validation from a girl pretty enough to be fawned over by every thirsty guy our there? I'd wager quite a lot.

In other words, when we can't accept ourselves we tend to seek things like I described above. And as a funny twist of irony, being unable to accept and love yourself is one of the must unattractive qualities, especially in men.

As a final rough analogy, would you rather trust the business advice of a millionaire who started in poverty, or one who received a $10million inheritance? Deep down, does it really matter to you, or are you just playing the game of ego?

 

[Buddy]

what if there are no small successes to build upon even if I take risk, or maybe there is integrity in the risk itself.

If you overthink it, you may find yourself in a paralysis of analysis. It could be as simple as child's play.

Sometimes we can be so self-conscious, assuming that people are looking at us too closely, yet they may just be doing the same thing. What if they're wondering if you notice the zit that popped up on their face and feels like a mountain to them? Just be considerate and respectful. Try and avoid using any of the gazillion coercion tactics we could use to get people to stay still and pay attention only to us. Let people come and go as they please.

Also, you can't look through other people's eyes, so ask questions about something they might know something about, or what they think about something. When you've made someone's acquaintance and it seems like they don't mind knowing you exist, go home and think about that. That right there might be a success you could build upon on the next encounter.

I think I'm just now realizing how long a list of do's and don'ts on this subject could get.

 

[luke wilson]

Is this even a worthwhile subject to talk about? I just think many people say one thing and do another.

Is there any male out there, since most of the guys who have responded are relatively young (20's or 30's) who has a healthy social life, who is single and has been single for awhile, who has overcome the medusa that is porn, no slip ups, no I've gone a long time and felt clean about it (but slipped up)... someone who is 100% clean, fell into it at some point and got totally clean since. Please, if you are out there, say something!

I'm sorry, but my mind sort of shuts down when I'm being spoken to by someone who is in a relationship about the subject... It's easy saying it's an addiction, you'll go to hell in a hand basket, when every single night you get into bed and you aren't alone...

I know some people who have responded aren't single and I know some are, but no one has said if this is something they've overcome. All I can hear is a bunch of opinion when no one is living their opinion in real life. So please, if this person is out there... please say something. Tell us your story.

I'll be honest and say girls will automatically obviously be against the whole thing (rightly so!), porn is degrading to women! It's true! But girls have a different biology to men, so again, when a girl sits across the table and is admonishing you for this, my mind just shuts down! I'm just thinking, obviously you'd say that!! Duh!!

I just think there is a whole bunch of pretenders out there. You look at statistics of the number of people who watch this stuff and you take a survey on the street and you'll definitely think either the stats lie or the people answering the survey are lying. Both can't be true...

Did anyone hear about this ashley madison thing? I mean, I didn't even know what it was until it broke... but to think there are more than 30 million people out there who signed up to one website for the sole purpose of cheating on their other halves... and then to read the stories of these people being caught... there is a church minister, some poor lady calls a radio station and gets a bomb shell dropped on her about her husband... cmon, pretenders everywhere.

When I'm getting advice from somewhere, I would very much prefer if the person was legit i.e. not saying one thing then doing another!

 

[luke wilson]

PS: Don't mean to be rude or aggressive or poking any sleeping bears... :/ :)

 

[Matai]

Is there any male out there, since most of the guys who have responded are relatively young (20's or 30's) who has a healthy social life, who is single and has been single for awhile, who has overcome the medusa that is porn, no slip ups, no I've gone a long time and felt clean about it (but slipped up)... someone who is 100% clean, fell into it at some point and got totally clean since. Please, if you are out there, say something!

I'm sorry, but my mind sort of shuts down when I'm being spoken to by someone who is in a relationship about the subject... It's easy saying it's an addiction, you'll go to hell in a hand basket, when every single night you get into bed and you aren't alone...

I know some people who have responded aren't single and I know some are, but no one has said if this is something they've overcome. All I can hear is a bunch of opinion when no one is living their opinion in real life. So please, if this person is out there... please say something. Tell us your story.

When I'm getting advice from somewhere, I would very much prefer if the person was legit i.e. not saying one thing then doing another!

Seeing as you are asking for another young, single, male's advice, who regards themselves as having overcome porn, and has a healthy social life, I can offer some advice. I am a 23 year old male who largely fits these criteria.

The most useful way that I have found to approach the subject for myself has been to follow the advice that Ark mentioned in a session where to paraphrase, he said "Duties first. Then Results".

You mention that you engage in this behavior when you are bored. Therefore I am making the assumption that you have fulfilled any obligations or duties that you may have.

Now you look for results. A powerful way I find to do this is to ask myself "What is the most productive thing I could be doing at this moment?" It may be delving into topics on the forum, reading from the recommended reading list or exercising. The most productive thing that I could be doing may actually be relaxing via EE, music or even sleeping.

As the urge to look at porn enters your mind, simply ask yourself, Is this the most productive thing I could be doing at this moment in "time"? If not, do what is most productive.

Now it might be the case that the actual physical release that may accompany pornography exposure is what is most productive for me at that moment. It may be a natural biological function that is performed and, once achieved, allows one to continue the rest of their day with more productive endeavors.

I am mindful about going deeper and more explicitly into this topic, but the key thing that I have found helpful is to perform this function is to do it without the assistance of pornography. It may be that at first it is quite difficult. Thoughts may even enter your mind of a similar nature to the visual stimuli that pornography offers. Overt time, however, I have found that these thoughts lessen and have now completely disappeared. The urge and mechanical stimulation are simply necessary functions which are performed in order to relieve your machine.

One way to assess as to whether or not it was productive to relieve yourself in this manner, for future reference, is observing how you feel afterwards. Are you tired and drained of energy, do you feel more negative thoughts or less purposeful? Or are you do you feel like you have necessarily released some tension and and now have more focus with which to do other things? I have found that when I act on these urges when it is most productive to do so, I can even experience a surge in energy. The key appears to lie in observing and knowing your own body.

Hopefully this can be of some help, I can only say that it is what has worked for me so far, so FWIW.

 

[Corvus]

Is this even a worthwhile subject to talk about? I just think many people say one thing and do another.

Is there any male out there, since most of the guys who have responded are relatively young (20's or 30's) who has a healthy social life, who is single and has been single for awhile, who has overcome the medusa that is porn, no slip ups, no I've gone a long time and felt clean about it (but slipped up)... someone who is 100% clean, fell into it at some point and got totally clean since. Please, if you are out there, say something!

I'm sorry, but my mind sort of shuts down when I'm being spoken to by someone who is in a relationship about the subject... It's easy saying it's an addiction, you'll go to hell in a hand basket, when every single night you get into bed and you aren't alone...

I know some people who have responded aren't single and I know some are, but no one has said if this is something they've overcome. All I can hear is a bunch of opinion when no one is living their opinion in real life. So please, if this person is out there... please say something. Tell us your story.

I'll be honest and say girls will automatically obviously be against the whole thing (rightly so!), porn is degrading to women! It's true! But girls have a different biology to men, so again, when a girl sits across the table and is admonishing you for this, my mind just shuts down! I'm just thinking, obviously you'd say that!! Duh!!

I just think there is a whole bunch of pretenders out there. You look at statistics of the number of people who watch this stuff and you take a survey on the street and you'll definitely think either the stats lie or the people answering the survey are lying. Both can't be true...

I ll be honest even if knowing it is sensitive topic, and not being totally clean, most of this year for the first 6 months I did not watch porn, after that did slip but intend to not watch it anymore. The longer you do not watch it the need for it is lesser and it becomes repulsive after longer periods. I could have got cleaner and prior to that few years earlier but it was my fault for not being more conscious and using it as disassociation when feeling hopeless, not having clear intention or inspiration of ridding of it, not wanting to lose it all yet, not giving it importance.

As for being single, I am single all my life and we are here somewhere in age, it is not hard for me maybe as for others because did not really had normal life, from the age of 8 was training to the age of 22 and was mostly concentrated on it and school, college, social life was scarce because of that because of those sacrifices but also for being different from others and because of social status and nationality when being in very young age. Same was in the high school, sport school where the atmosphere was also more selfish. On college there was also many facades and artificial masks. Then came knowledge and seeing that being someway different then others is not such a bad thing overall. Yes, there were going to discos and drinking when being high school with some "friends" and in college and meeting girls but mostly one nigh stand. It was always about money or the more foolish you get, in the end feeling more empty and lonely. Other words artificial. There were no lasting relationships because you see very quickly it is not a person for you after those initial phase, there is no emotional match and understanding. After gaining some knowledge I did not even try anymore even if not trying prior to that and you know why, better being alone then false even that was nothing new but in a spiritual sense it was very freeing.

And to be completely honest I did not have any sexual intercourse in my life even if being in such a situation when being younger to use a slang that is today widely used "getting some" because it did not feel right and it did not seem worth it if you do it for one night stand with someone you feel little or is not your match and there is no connection, did not have such an urge. It is not something I give importance to much. To me being alone has became normal, maybe that is how it has to be, this is something you accept and live with - you get to the point in life were some things become dust and ashes, even more so in times we live. You are clean my friend when you get out of this place and this reality.

 

[lainey]

Its perfectly 'normal' for males to have had this upbringing in regard's to pornography. And i agree, it is something that really took advantage of the natural wiring. So its okay to be in the situation that you are in, in regards to that specific matter. But its just not something we want to be involved in anymore, especially when you can see the whole plot for what it is. And with all the videos, articles, forum's posts etc, it should give you the ammo to arm yourself with with the reasons of not being involved in that charade any longer.
[..]
Aim to be a stronger, more mature and wholly good person person. Someone who thrives, not just survives. I understand that currently it is very difficult to just survive, but the bigger aim of this kind of work is to become something more solid, bigger than our current self. This type of subject is something that is directly related to respect of others; both male and female. And it also is directly tied to emotions.
I can only talk from experience, as it has plagued males (and females) of our age for a long time. When you are talking about this competition, and the inability to escape from it, then leaving your body in 'reproduce' mode will not help. We need to scrap this wiring and let it slow down... As it serves us no use in our current situation. It is biology, but our actions can train it a hell of alot.

Well said.
In my own experience, over the past few weeks I have gone through a relapse a couple of times and succumbed to the desire to subject myself to the "filth". All I can say is that once you 'throw the dog a bone' once or twice, before you know it "the floodgates are open" and the habit begins to take hold again.

The way I can see that the habit is taking hold again is through observing the narratives I create to normalizing it, justify it and explaining the behaviour away. One "I" is convinced that pornography is not obectifying the women if it is the "respectful" type. There is a battle between two "I"s. The observing "I" can see straight through the narratives, but it is just too weak to fight and it actually feels like I consciously choose the 'dark side' sometimes. Understably this is just mechanical, but it is interesting to see.

The truth is Luke, I think the "only every once in a while" excuse is a poor one. The damage that being inflicted unconconsciously is too severe to be excused like that. With some things, such as pornography, moderation simply doesn't apply. This is something that takes serious will, effort and determination, and it CAN be stopped. I know this for a fact because I managed to get porn-free for quite a long time, and felt clean because of it.

This got me thinking about what I read in the wave series about being able to rewire your brain. I'll quote a few paragraphs from chapters 70 and 33 respectively:

Now, in the human being, as in other creatures, the sensation that is experienced as orgasm is the same release of chemicals that stimulate the same part of the brain that makes the rats so happy. Some scientists refer to this in technical jargon as the “do it again” center. (Cf. Burnham and Phelan.) When this center is stimulated, whatever activity is associated with it will be sought again and again.
We have, it seems, a lot of “do it again” chemicals with a lot of “do it again” receptor sites all over our bodies. Certain foods in different people act in this way. Some people feel euphoria when they achieve victory over a rival in some sort of competition. Aside from the most obvious example of sex, these are examples of other things that can cause the secretion of these “do it again” chemicals.
By having such a pleasure system in our bodies, we have a built in reward system by which we can be manipulated to pursue any number of activities that may or may not be good for us; mostly based on – you guessed it – early imprinting. And, we are generally unaware of it; we simply engage in certain behaviors because it feels good and we want to do it again. We were rewarded for them as infants and small children, and we constantly seek that programmed behavior in order to receive the reward. Never mind that our early programming may have been for behaviors that completely block the true expression of our essence, or that they are based on fairy tales or unrealistic perceptions of life.

Let me quote it one more time: the Matrix is a neural interactive simulation.
It is in this way that we are programmed to engage in damaging behavior via the Control System. If our chemicals are stimulated while we are being led down the primrose path in any of a number of situations, the brain will set a circuit to repeat this behavior in order to feel the pleasure chemicals released at the end of the behavior, regardless of the painful process by which the chemicals are ultimately obtained.
Now, going back to our programs and body chemicals, we begin to see how it is possible that anything which causes more dopamine to be released into the system will very likely manifest the same result as cocaine, heroin and morphine: we will go back to the behavior over and over again because the imprint of the way that pleasure is to be achieved has been set in the mind of the child.

Ecstasy is known as the love drug and commonly makes users feel warm and loving, even towards people they may not know well. Ecstasy can also heighten sexual desire and intensify the sexual experience, as well as decreasing inhibition. Lab results with animals have suggested possibilities of long-term brain damage arising from the reduction of serotonin and dopamine receptors and the ultimate failure of the brain to produce serotonin at all.
So, in a roundabout way, we have come to the fact that our addictions to our own chemicals may ultimately lead to permanent inability to feel any pleasure at all. And we all know that as we age our ability to be amused by simple things diminishes.
I am torn between being shocked and amused by the spate of recent commercials for sexual stimulants that promise to “revive the love nature.” I think the funniest one is promoting a product called “Top Gun.” But the problem it suggests is not very amusing. It seems that in our sexually permissive society, where for the past 20 or 30 years everyone has been encouraged to claim their natural right with more orgasms, better orgasms, extended, multiple and repeaters, and so on may be at the source of the present problem with achieving any orgasm at all for so many people.
The bottom line seems to be: if it feels good, you will want to do it again and again and more and better. And if you do you will be less and less able to do it at all; and in the end the imbalances will lead to more pain and suffering and feelings of inadequacy. And we know what all that is: lunch!

Deep in the base of the brain is a structure called the hippocampus (Greek for sea horse!) and a part of the hippocampus is called Ammon’s horn, or the Ram. In the Ammon’s horn, there are a large number of pyramidal neurons which gather the input of other sensory neurons. A pyramidal neuron is difficult to fire, but if two separate inputs arrive at once, their combined effect will fire it. Once fired, it is much easier to fire, but only by one of the two inputs that originally fired it, and not by another input. Thus, for example, the sight of a pyramid and the word Egypt combined, could fire the pyramidal cell, creating an associative memory. This means that things that occur together in time can “potentiate” associative learning.
What resides in and near the hippocampus is the mechanism for creating long-term memory. The cells there transmit the newly formed long-term memory to where it will reside in the neo-cortex. People with small hippocampuses can form procedural memories – that is, they can learn to do things that require skill, like reading and writing, and diagramming sentences, teaching English and literature, performing rituals and collecting data of all kinds, and even aping scholars to a sufficient extent that the non-discriminating observer is easily fooled.

It seems that, when utilized correctly, it is a process of “thinking with a hammer,” and making associations. Recapitulation can be a tool by which awareness is enhanced. According to don Juan, it consists in hashing over and reliving one’s experiences. One must attempt to remember every possible, minute detail. When this is done within a group, it becomes the essence of what Paul wrote when he said “confess your sins one to the other,” keeping in mind that Gurdjieff referred to the Fourth Way as “Esoteric Christianity.” The Cs say “network” and “air it out.” The result seems to be that recapitulation increases awareness, which then enables us to apply what we are now aware of in practical ways, and thus, we are enabled to begin the process of reclaiming our energy, and making better choices about who or what we connect to, or associate with, in terms of our interactions with people and situations that we encounter in our daily lives.
The way this may work is that, by recapitulation, we are discovering principles. We are looking at an event in the real world, considering the psychological, “real” reason, and associating it to the theological reason. This means that we are firing the pyramidal cells in the hippocampus because we are coming at the issue with numerous inputs at once. This then ships the information off to the neo-cortex where more synapses are formed, and more thinking capacity results, establishing a positive feedback loop.

So I agree that it certainly is possible to train your brain to not want or need pornography. It's just about building the muscle of the brain and not allowing it to follow those same old neurological pathways that are so used to being triggered as a result of one thing or another; boredom loneliness and so on. It works well alongside Gabor Mate's material about dealing with the underlying reasons/emotions of our addictions and treating them accordingly.

Edit Added: It's also worth while to re-read all of both the chapters IMO there's so much in there!
http://cassiopaea.org/2011/11/15/the-wave-chapter-33-introduction/
http://cassiopaea.org/2012/03/27/the-wave-chapter-70-you-take-the-high-road-and-ill-take-the-low-road-and-ill-be-in-scotland-afore-ye/

 

[luke wilson]

Nooo, I spent an hr writing a response but it disappeared!

Thanks Matai and Corvinus plus lainey for those excerpts. :)

Corvinus, I hope you are ok as what you wrote made it look like you sacrificed a lot along the way.

 

[lainey]

Nooo, I spent an hr writing a response but it disappeared!

Thanks Matai and Corvinus plus lainey for those excerpts. :)

Corvinus, I hope you are ok as what you wrote made it look like you sacrificed a lot along the way.

FWIW a few people have had that happen to them, me included. I've taken to writing longer replies in note pad/word first then copy/pasting it. It's pretty frustrating so I know how you must feel.

 

[luke wilson]

Nooo, I spent an hr writing a response but it disappeared!

Thanks Matai and Corvinus plus lainey for those excerpts. :)

Corvinus, I hope you are ok as what you wrote made it look like you sacrificed a lot along the way.

FWIW a few people have had that happen to them, me included. I've taken to writing longer replies in note pad/word first then copy/pasting it. It's pretty frustrating so I know how you must feel.

Yeah, its pretty frustrating. I wonder if its the universe saying not to make the post or if its forcing you to rethink. I'm on my phone now so don't have the benefit of word/notepad.

What I wrote before was along this...

To Matai, what you said aligns quite well with what most of the forums about rebooting your brain say. I actually tried this, accepting that the machine needed it every now and again. I tried the complete abstinence also, no relief or anything. With the second, I had major problems managing the sexual energy that had no where to go. For sure I wasn't cut out to be a monk.

With the first I came to realise that my whole universe about relieving the machine was tied to watching it. That's how it first happened, that was my first education into it. Its not that I had become to dependant on it that nothing could happen without it, its that without it, it was just boring and there was no point. Also I found that things took on a grey and bleak appearance. Life, my days, it all seemed dull and grey, like it lacked color. Then, I just didn't have any reason to not compromise, so I reached my current compromise which to me seemed like a fair compromise.

So to take your route and stick with it, I need to find a way to deal with the grey outlook that will descend, to deal with the boredom and to deal with the thought that asks, what is the point?

I used to think the point was so that I can be a better person in the eyes of women, that any problems I experienced on that front was because of it, but I no longer think that. I don't know what the point is. You can ask what is the point of eating healthy for example and I will say its because I feel better, I get more healthy. Or what is the point of exercise and I can say its because I feel the benefits in my body. What is the point in not drinking alcohol and I can say you don't feel dizzy or have a hangover the next day etc. I don't know what the point of this is really. I don't know what benefit I will get.

That's it, you get to that point where your mind asks you what is the point, after you've gone clean long enough, then it asks and it keeps asking. This is happening in the context of everything being grey and of you being bored and it gets near impossible to convince yourself otherwise.

You can say the point should be for your higher self, I've answered this and it asks, how does that look like? This higher self concept... And I cant answer. I don't know if you've seen the movie run fatboy run, where Simon pegg comes up against the 'wall'... This is my wall.

 

[Alada]

You can say the point should be for your higher self, I've answered this and it asks, how does that look like? This higher self concept... And I cant answer. I don't know if you've seen the movie run fatboy run, where Simon pegg comes up against the 'wall'... This is my wall.

I’ve been thinking about the above and your surprising ‘life being grey / boring’ comment and wondering, which of Laura’s works have you read Luke Wilson?

Also, have you read In Search of the Miraculous?

I think it would be a help to read or re-read material which could begin to frame / answer this question for you better, beginning with Laura’s work.

The Cs have suggested we acquire ‘knowledge input on a continual basis’, it has been suggested that knowledge has ‘weight’, can protect, so I’m left wondering if you’re a bit light in the knowledge department there.

I used to think the point was so that I can be a better person in the eyes of women, that any problems I experienced on that front was because of it, but I no longer think that. I don't know what the point is. You can ask what is the point of eating healthy for example and I will say its because I feel better, I get more healthy. Or what is the point of exercise and I can say its because I feel the benefits in my body. What is the point in not drinking alcohol and I can say you don't feel dizzy or have a hangover the next day etc. I don't know what the point of this is really. I don't know what benefit I will get.

There is an interesting quote that stood out in Laura’s Comets and the Horns of Moses which came to mind in that regard, I’ve searched but can’t find it if anyone can remember who it was. It was along the lines of a philosopher being asked when a person should engage in sexual activity, to which the reply was "when you wish to lose what power you have". G has also made reference to our generally not realising the true value of such things.

That is not to say that we’re all supposed to be saints here, we’re not, but perhaps a little more background knowledge would add some helpful "weight" to your inner discussions?