Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris and Other Catholic Churches

[goyacobol]

This page in french says that some snakes amidst the decorations are depictions of energy.

Thanks jsf for those details on the "crochets". It is very interesting I think. And I never knew about the snakes on the spires they are so small from a distance.

 

[jsf]

We now have the complete video of Benjamin Mouton, chief architect at Notre Dame for 13 years, between 2000 and 2013

https://www.facebook.com/LeBlogueNoirDeBroceliande/posts/631725087254585

In the beginning, he says that the vaults are still fragile, that the calcined woods can turn the stone into lime.

- have you been surprised that fire has grown so rapidly?

absolutely. incomprehensible. I am amazed. it's very old oak, and it looks like it burned like matches, as if it were another tree species, very very volatile or combustible
I do not understand
I really do not understand at all, it's very impressive

- what could be the origin of the fire?

I have no idea

- the propagation, you say it's amazing

the propagation, it is extremely curious;
so obviously it started from the choir, then it spread on the choir, the nave, the transept

- because we hear a lot of comments that say, what is called the forest, this very large area, very important, very voluminous frame
this frame could burn, finally, almost like little wood?
you don't think so, you say that this type of wood does not burn like that

Oh no, you know 800 year old oak, .. try to burn it.

(...)

there are measuring and detection devices permanently in the attic
I want to add one thing, is that the detection devices that are in the attic are powered in such way that there is no risk of short circuit
we have deported all the elements of connections in the stairs, behind the fire doors
the second observation I'm going to make is this, and maybe you're going to be surprised
when you look at the statistics on damages in buildings, you see that historic buildings are almost nothing

- because there are very few historic buildings, simply

No, no, it's because these sites are very closely monitored, very well supervised, with measures that are drastic with regard to protection, surveillance, etc.
so here I think the question of a renovation project that weakens a building, I do not believe that

- Mr. Mouton, what you are describing leads straight to the hypothesis of someone who would have wanted for the fire to develop

I would be careful not to make the slightest assumption

- the hypothesis of the two starts of fire, is it credible or not? you heard about it ? that there were two fire starts?

I heard about it from my colleague Philippe Villeneuve who is the chief architect of the historic monuments, who gave me his agreement to participate here tonight,
he told me that he had only one fire, in the valley
that is to say, the part of the roof that meets the transept
he told me: only that
he adds: there was no building site there

- no construction site there? that is to say, the person who has succeeded you told you that the fire started at a place where there was no work? there was no renovation work there?

voilà

- avez-vous été surpris que le feu ait pris cette ampleur aussi rapidement ?

tout à fait. incompréhensible. je suis stupéfait. c'est du très vieux chêne, et on dirait qu'il a brûlé comme des allumettes, comme si c'était une autre essence, très très volatile ou combustible
je comprends pas
vraiment je comprends pas du tout, c'est très impressionnant

- quelle pourrait être l'origine du feu ?

aucune idée

- la propagation, vous dites que c'est étonnant

la propagation, elle est extrêmement curieuse;
alors évidemment c'est parti de la croisée, puis ça s'est propagé ensuite sur le choeur, la nef, le transept

- parce qu'on entend beaucoup de commentaires qui disent, ce qu'on appelle la forêt, cette zone très grande, très importante, très volumineuse de charpente
cette charpente pourrait brûler, finalement, presque comme du petit bois ?
vous vous înscrivez en faux, vous dites que ce type de bois ne brûle pas comme ça

ah non, vous savez du chêne qui a 800 ans, essayez d'en faire brûler. (...)

il y a des appareils de mesure et de détection en permanence dans les combles
en ajoutant une chose, c'est que les appareils de détection qui sont dans les combles sont alimentés de telle sorte qu'il n'y ait aucun risque de court-circuit
on a déporté tous les éléments de branchements dans les escaliers, en retrait des portes coupe-feu

la deuxième observation que je vais faire est la suivante, et peut-être que vous allez être surpris
quand vous regardez les statistiques sur les sinistres dans les bâtiments, vous voyez que les bâtiments historiques c'est presque rien

- parce qu'il y a très peu de bâtiments historiques tout simplement

non, non, c'est parce que ces chantiers sont très très surveillés, très encadrés, avec des mesures qui sont drastiques en ce qui concerne la protection, la surveillance, etc etc
donc là, je pense que la question d'un chantier qui affaiblit un édifice je n'y crois pas

- monsieur Mouton, ce que vous nous décrivez mène tout droit à l'hypothèse de quelqu'un qui aurait cherché à ce que l'incendie se développe

je me garderais bien de faire la moindre hypothèse

- l'hypothèse des deux départs de feu, elle tient ou elle tient pas ? vous avez entendu ? qu'il y ait eu deux départs de feu ?

j'en ai entendu parler par mon confrère philippe villeneuve qui est l'architecte en chef des monuments historiques, qui m'a donné son accord pour que je participe ici ce soir,
il m'a dit avoir connu un seul départ de feu, dans la noue
c'est-à-dire la partie de toiture qui rencontre le transept
il m'a dit: uniquement ça
il ajoute : il n'y avait pas de chantier à cet endroit là

- pas de chantier à cet endroit là ? c'est-à-dire que celui qui vous a succédé vous a dit que le départ de feu a eu lieu à un endroit où il n'y avait pas de travaux ? il n'y avait pas de chantier ?

voilà

 

[jsf]

So now Brigitte Macron says :

"It's a message she (the cathedral) sends us, I know it, I came back from it
There is something she tells us, the whole thing is to hear it.
"It's not a phoenix, because it's not in ashes. She will live again better. Maybe higher. "

«C’est un message qu’elle nous envoie. Je le sais», dit Brigitte Macron sur Notre-Dame

Brigitte Macron, qui assistait à la messe chrismale célébrée dans l’église Saint-Sulpice suite à l’incendie qui a ravagé Notre-Dame de Paris, y a exprimé sa profonde émotion, quitte à voir derrière le drame «un message que la cathédrale nous envoie».

fr.sputniknews.com

Pretty weird.

On the picture this is la "noue", the valley, where the fire began.
Here is the inside :

http://hermetism.free.fr/images/NDcharpente6.jpg

http://hermetism.free.fr/images/NDcharpente7big.jpg

It seems really unlikely that a fire could break out there, without electricity, without renovation work, without anything that could cause it.
The official version says that someone checked the wrong place, but we don't know where it was. If someone went up to the attic, he would have immediately seen the fire.

 

[jsf]

The place where the fire broke out:

 

[goyacobol]

So now Brigitte Macron says :



Pretty weird.

On the picture this is la "noue", the valley, where the fire began.
Here is the inside :

http://hermetism.free.fr/images/NDcharpente6.jpg

http://hermetism.free.fr/images/NDcharpente7big.jpg

It seems really unlikely that a fire could break out there, without electricity, without renovation work, without anything that could cause it.
The official version says that someone checked the wrong place, but we don't know where it was. If someone went up to the attic, he would have immediately seen the fire.

Seeing the attic before shows what amazing design work was put into the cathedral and makes it even more tragic.

I think the fire was a set-up to distract from the YV movement and political turmoil France is facing.

Brigitte Macron's words are kind of "weird" but the timing is also interesting.

From the article:

Brigitte Macron, who attended the Chrism Mass in St. Sulpice church following the fire that destroyed Notre-Dame de Paris, has expressed her deep emotion, even see behind the drama "a message that the cathedral sends us. "
To celebrate the Chrism Mass in St. Sulpice church, the First Lady gave free rein to her emotions and explained that the fire that ravaged Our Lady of Paris was a "message" to all French .
"It's a message that [the Cathedral, note] sends us. I know, I came back. There's something she says, the trick is to hear it. "

According to Ms. Macron, Notre Dame de Paris is "the symbol of all that unites us":

© SPUTNIK . OXANA BOBROVITCH
Restoration of Our Lady: "Five years, that seems very short, but why not?"
"This cathedral is our history, it is our heritage, it is our culture. It is a cathedral of poetry, "she said. She particularly stressed that the cathedral was still standing: "This is not a phoenix, because it is not in ashes. It will revive even better. Maybe higher. "

A fire broke out Monday, April 15 in the Cathedral Notre Dame de Paris. The public prosecutor of Paris said Tuesday, April 16 as accidental track was privileged. According to firefighters, the fire was "potentially linked" to the renovation of this historic monument, the most visited in Europe.

The day after the tragedy, in his message to the nation, Emmanuel Macron has announced that the Notre Dame de Paris would be rebuilt within 5 years.

 

[Hi_Henry]

Reading the complete interview with architect Benjamin Mouton re-enforces my view that arson is highly probable. The man is not a fool and he has the Technical Knowledge to understand what he saw happening. When I found out that he was involved in the changing out of the electrical system, that led me to discount overheated wires, short circuits etc. as the potential causes. Even these in XXI Century with EU Electrical Safety Standards will be a low probability cause of the fire.

In the ND case it has to be a CONTINUOUS HIGH TEMPERATURE EMITTING SOURCE. I have experienced with short circuits around the house and village. I know that the electronics used today to trigger the circuit breakers (cut power) is nearly instantaneous. You will not see continuous flames coming from short circuit. That's Disney World understanding of electronics or something like this,

Thanks to angelburst29

Two Alarms -
The scaffolders started leaving work at 5:20 p.m. on Monday evening and by 5:50 p.m. - half an hour before the first alarm sounded - all were gone, Eskenazi said.

“The procedure says that at the end of the day, electricity on the site is turned off. So we turn off the lifts and the scaffolding’s lights, and we hand over the keys to the sacristy’s concierge,” he said.

“That’s exactly what the workers did. They followed the procedure, and it was of course duly noted in the registers at the sacristy.” There was no welding machine or blowtorch on the site, he added. Police sources confirmed no welding was being done at this stage to the site.

Thanks to JSF we know the following.
Benjamin Mouton did the French People a favor, he said it like he saw it. He told the people what he as an expert thinks. That Is Rare in a Public Medium.

So lets repeat what he said again lest we forget what he said,

- have you been surprised that fire has grown so rapidly?

absolutely. incomprehensible. I am amazed. it's very old oak, and it looks like it burned like matches, as if it were another tree species, very very volatile or combustible
I do not understand
I really do not understand at all, it's very impressive

(...)

- because we hear a lot of comments that say, what is called the forest, this very large area, very important, very voluminous frame this frame could burn, finally, almost like little wood? You don't think so, you say that this type of wood does not burn like that

Oh no, you know 800 year old oak, .. try to burn it.

(...)

There are measuring and detection devices permanently in the attic I want to add one thing, is that the detection devices that are in the attic are powered in such way that there is no risk of short circuit we have deported all the elements of connections in the stairs, behind the fire doors the second observation I'm going to make is this, and maybe you're going to be surprised when you look at the statistics on damages in buildings, you see that historic buildings are almost nothing

- Because there are very few historic buildings, simply

No, no, it's because these sites are very closely monitored, very well supervised, with measures that are drastic with regard to protection, surveillance, etc.
so here I think the question of a renovation project that weakens a building, I do not believe that

 

[loreta]

I believe that a site like ND with so much art pieces, so important the cathedral was, me too it is not normal this fire. So the question is why they put the fire and who? It passed in my mind that they wanted to put the fire to recollect money and also some art artifacts for them telling that they burned in the fire. It is a big business a cathedral like this, like a museum. Also, they know how sad the French people will be now, so all this sadness is food for them whoever they are. They are black for sure.

 

[nature]

Did anyone already mention this? Simultaniously the al-aqsa mosque in jerusalem was in flames.

Yes:

On the same day, a fire broke in al-aqsa mosque in Jerusalem (it's basically a Byzantine basilica). There are no damages but the coincidence is interesting nonetheless.

Oh my god! my intuition about reconstructing with ugly modern art was correct? I imagine they will put a pyramid like the one at the Louvre yard with a 5G antena instead of the spire . A diabolical way to replace positive energies by negative ones.
And C's said they want to be able to use back the atlantean pyramids. Maybe it's part of the plans?

I suspect, the spire was the main target, also. This article may provide a clue?

Time-lapse shots of Notre-Dame spire may yield clues on blaze

Footage from the camera, which was placed on the northern belltower and is now in the hands of investigators, shows the first smoke coming out of the spire’s base, Marc Eskenazi, a representative for Europe Echafaudage, told Reuters.

[...] President Emmanuel Macron might have hoped he was striking a note for modernity and openness in announcing an international competition to design a new spire for Notre-Dame cathedral, but he may have opened a can of worms instead.

“Since the spire wasn’t part of the original cathedral,” the Elysee Palace said in a statement late on Wednesday, “the President of the Republic hopes there will be some reflection and a contemporary architectural gesture might be envisaged.”

Computer-generated pictures online included ideas for a soaring glass needle to replace the 91-metre (300 foot) spire, which was added to the cathedral in the mid-1800s, replacing a Medieval one that was removed in 1786.

 

[nature]

Thanks jsf for those details on the "crochets". It is very interesting I think. And I never knew about the snakes on the spires they are so small from a distance.

View attachment 29888

So small from a distance... oh it reminds about the antenas on proteins that interact with DNA (cf last session) !!
As above so below. It's symbolic: on another front, they are trying to destruct these proteins, by various means (EMF pollution, junk food, etc...) . They want to separate us from our higher self and from God (univers, information field, Truth)

 

[bianca etezete]

I believe that a site like ND with so much art pieces, so important the cathedral was, me too it is not normal this fire. So the question is why they put the fire and who? It passed in my mind that they wanted to put the fire to recollect money and also some art artifacts for them telling that they burned in the fire. It is a big business a cathedral like this, like a museum. Also, they know how sad the French people will be now, so all this sadness is food for them whoever they are. They are black for sure.

That were my thoughts, too. I read somewhere and cant find it anymore that most of the art was already moved out of ND, due to the renovation coming (it didnt start yet). It will be indeed very interesting whether they all find back to the Cathedral when the renovation will be finished...

 

[Damian]

Exactly. Anyone who is part of an emergency response system knows that per protocol, you have to be there within minutes. Firefighters usually materialize in no time. If it really took them 50 minutes to get there, that makes them among the most incompetent response team in history. No rescue system lives uncovered a main city by more than half an hour. It would be interesting to see what they have to say.

Yes it certainly seems like there is more to this than meets the eye.

 

[isparnid]

Just a hypothesis:
1 - Can the scaffolding (given its importance) be considered as a huge Faraday cage that perfectly isolates the upper part of the cathedral (the wooden structure) from external electrical influences? Only the spire that emerges from this structure could represent a pole.
2 - the inside of the cathedral is probably equipped with cellular jammers. With an average of 30,000 visitors per day, it can be said that the quantity of smartphones searching for a transmitter represents a large quantity of energy that accumulates inside the cathedral (conversely, the Faraday cage prevents radio waves from leaving and in this case, the thickness of the scaffolding makes the mesh very thin and therefore more efficient).
3 - Once again, can we imagine that the relatively dry weather of recent days has helped to transform Notre-Dame into a gigantic capacitor?
4 - This would result in disturbing the alarm systems, causing electrical malfunctions.
5 - In the end, something could have caused the sudden discharge of this giant capacitor, where a maximum of energy could have accumulated (the structure) favouring the appearance of multiple hot spots explaining the rapid spread of the fire.

it crossed my mind....

 

[Aeneas]

The European election campaign of French President Emmanuel Macron is being suspended for now following the Notre-Dame Cathedral fire, said French politician Nathalie Loiseau, who is spearheading the campaign.

“We are all going through a moment of extreme sadness. The ‘Renaissance’ list is understandably part of this moment of national unity. We are therefore suspending the campaign until further notice,” Loiseau wrote on her Twitter account.

Macron’s ruling LREM party has put up candidates for the EU election under a list called ‘Renaissance’.

It almost appears as if the ND fire was the big launch of the Macron Euro campaign. The branding of the movement as 'Renaissance' coupled with the call for national unity seems to fit almost too well with the fire at ND.

Macron has only just recently condemned nationalism:
_Ahead of EU elections, Macron unveils plan for 'European renaissance'

“In a few weeks, the European elections will be decisive for the future of our continent. Europe has never been as necessary since World War Two as it is now and yet never has Europe been in such danger,” Macron wrote. “Nationalism offers nothing. It is a project of rejection.”

The speed with which the elite poured in hundreds of millions (100 million already on Monday evening just hours after the start of the fire) is a little curious. For decades Notre Dame has struggled to maintain the place, not able to get a sponsor, despite the tourist magnet that it is to Paris and France and then within a few hours massive money donations appear. Almost like the the 9/11 Pentagon self-inflicted wound. The GJ, yellow vest movement has targeted the Macron and his oligarchic supporters for the last 22 weeks and then this happen that makes them look like angels !?!

Work took me to Paris on Wednesday and I spent yesterday morning (Thursday) walking around the area and taking pictures from all angles. It was a strange feeling that it was less than 3 days ago that ND had been devastated by fire.

Half of the island where ND stands was blocked off by police who said that experts had to access the damage. I started out at 10 am and as the time moved closer to lunch, the streets filled with tourists and lots of them! Since a lot of tour operators had planned to visit ND, then they were now forced to gather around outside in the streets in big numbers. Here is a map of the island:

All the bridges to the right blocked off until Pont au Change. If someone is planning to go, then go early in the morning like 8am.

Below are a few photos:


Some from the international Press was stationed on one of the bridges:



In the following picture one can see how a makeshift support structure has been made to stop the eastern side from collapsing.


A picture from the north side:

From the West:

​

I can post more details of the pictures including zooming in and post it here if anyone wishes.​

 

[aragorn]

This interview describes how Macron is using the ND incident for his own gain. The usual tactic of appealing to people's emotions (after a shock) to steer and control them. The ND fire seems to have come at a quite convenient time for him...

PR Operation: Macron Uses Notre Dame Blaze to Stage Show of ‘National Unity’

Gilbert Mercier, editor-in-chief of News Junkie Post and author of “The Orwellian Empire,” joined Radio Sputnik’s Loud & Clear Wednesday to discuss how French President Emmanuel Macron’s solemn speech in the aftermath of the fire that...

sputniknews.com

PR Operation: Macron Uses Notre Dame Blaze to Stage Show of ‘National Unity’
Gilbert Mercier, editor-in-chief of News Junkie Post and author of “The Orwellian Empire,” joined Radio Sputnik’s Loud & Clear Wednesday to discuss how French President Emmanuel Macron’s solemn speech in the aftermath of the fire that devastated the Cathedral of Notre Dame could boost Macron’s approval ratings.

"It might sound kind of cynical on my part, but for politicians, it seems like all disasters can be used for potential political gain," Mercier told hosts John Kiriakou and Brian Becker.

The Notre Dame Cathedral, one of Paris' most widely recognized landmarks, was engulfed by flames Monday evening. The fire is believed to have started accidentally during renovation work underway inside the cathedral. The UNESCO World Heritage site, built between the 12th and 14th centuries, has been the site of royal marriages, coronations and farewell ceremonies for prominent French officials over many centuries, and is a prime example of French gothic architecture, Sputnik previously noted.

Following the blaze, Macron addressed the French people in a short televised speech.

"This is not the time for politics," he said.

"I profoundly believe that it is up to us to transform this catastrophe into an opportunity to come together and think about what we were and what we need to become, to improve ourselves," the president added, alluding to a series of measures he plans to outline in response to the wave of so-called Yellow Vests rallies. The protests, which started in France in mid-November 2018 and were triggered by Macron's proposal to raise fuel taxes, have been marked by violence, clashes with law enforcement agents and public disorder.

"I will get back to you as I had promised in the coming days, so we can collectively act together after the great debate, but now is not the time," he added.

"After the time of hardship, the time of reflection and action will come, but let's not mix them up; let's not fall in the trap of precipitation… being head of state [is not] just administering things, [it is] being conscious of our history. It is up to us now to rediscover the thread of our national project — what made us, what unites us," he continued.

"Macron's rating has been going up [following the Notre Dame fire]," Mercier told Sputnik.

"It's kind of an emotional [time], and Macron is using it to create a mood of national communion, if I may say, especially appropriate in the context of Notre Dame being a church," Mercier said.

"It [the fire] has been very useful for Macron, and I have to say this is clever… he is trying to stage [a show] of national unity. It's almost like 9/11 in the US. It's a shock, and the psychological shock is understandable, as Notre Dame was kind of a symbol of resilience and stability, a symbol of something [that has withstood time]. It's kind of almost a metaphor of human frailty," Mercier added.

According to Becker, former US President George W. Bush's approval rating went to 90 percent after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

"[The Notre Dame and September 11 attacks] are dissimilar because thousands of people died [in the September 11 attacks]. [But here], you have Macron, on the ropes, just like George W. Bush was on the ropes, cynically taking advantage of the situation for his own ends," Becker noted.

On Tuesday night, Macron also promised to rebuild Notre Dame in five years.

"And I tell you tonight with force, we are this people of builders," Macron said, according to a translation by NBC News. "We have so much to reconstruct. So yes, we will rebuild the Cathedral of Notre Dame more beautifully. And I would like it to be achieved in five years from now. We can do it. And we will mobilize," he added.

However, according to Mercier, it may be impossible to rebuild the Notre Dame.

"The notion that it's going to be rebuilt and it will be exactly the same is completely false. I'll give you an an example. The [intricate] woodwork… it was all made of oak… It took 80 acres of natural oak trees [to build Notre Dame]. And such oak trees have completely disappeared from France, so it will not be rebuilt because it cannot be rebuilt."

Following the fire, France's three wealthiest families, Arnault, Pinault and Bettencourt, who own conglomerate companies LVMH Group, Kering and L'Oreal, respectively, pledged a combined $565 million as part of a fundraising effort to rebuild Notre Dame. In addition, French oil and gas company Total has promised $113 million, while consulting firm Capgemini will furnish over $1.1 million.

"They are using that as a public relations (PR) operation and will also be, for them, a tax write-off," Mercier added.

 

[Hi_Henry]

Notre Dame Repair Fund Reaches 1 Billion Euros In Two Days

article
Good news if you look at it in a straight forward way.

But has anyone considered the following. Salvaged wood. I imagine anyone who works with wood in France or for that matter anywhere in the World will be thinking this,

Vintage Reclaimed Lumber

Maker
I once visited a furniture store that had custom made furniture made from reclaimed wood from old building/house tear-downs. Prices were ... as the wood in some cases was around 100 yrs. old. I was in there out of curiosity and not to buy.

Now we have Notre Dame, the property of the State. I suspect someone WILL BE approaching the State to negotiate to buy the burned wood. This wood will be nicely cleaned (or maybe not completely nicely cleaned) to make CUSTOM ORDERED furniture for "special clients". Why special ? Because you and I will not be in a position to pay the price for this furniture that they will selling. Exclusive Club !!!!

For the State, this arson fire is a Win-Win anyway you look at it. Macron gets some sympathy. The Yellow Vest Strikes disappear from the News for a bit. Assange arrest has nearly completely disappeared from the news, USA thanks XX. Money continues to come in from donors throughout the World. And the burned lumber which to most looks like garbage could bring in a sizeable fortune once the Exclusive Class gets the brochure from the furniture maker who clinches the deal with Macron. For sure the Templar's will want some charcoal. While Francois Hollande's friends with the little aprons will be ordering anythings they can get as a souvenir. This wood is not going to China to be disposed.