google translate said:- have you been surprised that fire has grown so rapidly?
absolutely. incomprehensible. I am amazed. it's very old oak, and it looks like it burned like matches, as if it were another tree species, very very volatile or combustible
I do not understand
I really do not understand at all, it's very impressive
- what could be the origin of the fire?
I have no idea
- the propagation, you say it's amazing
the propagation, it is extremely curious;
so obviously it started from the choir, then it spread on the choir, the nave, the transept
- because we hear a lot of comments that say, what is called the forest, this very large area, very important, very voluminous frame
this frame could burn, finally, almost like little wood?
you don't think so, you say that this type of wood does not burn like that
Oh no, you know 800 year old oak, .. try to burn it.
(...)
there are measuring and detection devices permanently in the attic
I want to add one thing, is that the detection devices that are in the attic are powered in such way that there is no risk of short circuit
we have deported all the elements of connections in the stairs, behind the fire doors
the second observation I'm going to make is this, and maybe you're going to be surprised
when you look at the statistics on damages in buildings, you see that historic buildings are almost nothing
- because there are very few historic buildings, simply
No, no, it's because these sites are very closely monitored, very well supervised, with measures that are drastic with regard to protection, surveillance, etc.
so here I think the question of a renovation project that weakens a building, I do not believe that
- Mr. Mouton, what you are describing leads straight to the hypothesis of someone who would have wanted for the fire to develop
I would be careful not to make the slightest assumption
- the hypothesis of the two starts of fire, is it credible or not? you heard about it ? that there were two fire starts?
I heard about it from my colleague Philippe Villeneuve who is the chief architect of the historic monuments, who gave me his agreement to participate here tonight,
he told me that he had only one fire, in the valley
that is to say, the part of the roof that meets the transept
he told me: only that
he adds: there was no building site there
- no construction site there? that is to say, the person who has succeeded you told you that the fire started at a place where there was no work? there was no renovation work there?
voilà
- avez-vous été surpris que le feu ait pris cette ampleur aussi rapidement ?
tout à fait. incompréhensible. je suis stupéfait. c'est du très vieux chêne, et on dirait qu'il a brûlé comme des allumettes, comme si c'était une autre essence, très très volatile ou combustible
je comprends pas
vraiment je comprends pas du tout, c'est très impressionnant
- quelle pourrait être l'origine du feu ?
aucune idée
- la propagation, vous dites que c'est étonnant
la propagation, elle est extrêmement curieuse;
alors évidemment c'est parti de la croisée, puis ça s'est propagé ensuite sur le choeur, la nef, le transept
- parce qu'on entend beaucoup de commentaires qui disent, ce qu'on appelle la forêt, cette zone très grande, très importante, très volumineuse de charpente
cette charpente pourrait brûler, finalement, presque comme du petit bois ?
vous vous înscrivez en faux, vous dites que ce type de bois ne brûle pas comme ça
ah non, vous savez du chêne qui a 800 ans, essayez d'en faire brûler. (...)
il y a des appareils de mesure et de détection en permanence dans les combles
en ajoutant une chose, c'est que les appareils de détection qui sont dans les combles sont alimentés de telle sorte qu'il n'y ait aucun risque de court-circuit
on a déporté tous les éléments de branchements dans les escaliers, en retrait des portes coupe-feu
la deuxième observation que je vais faire est la suivante, et peut-être que vous allez être surpris
quand vous regardez les statistiques sur les sinistres dans les bâtiments, vous voyez que les bâtiments historiques c'est presque rien
- parce qu'il y a très peu de bâtiments historiques tout simplement
non, non, c'est parce que ces chantiers sont très très surveillés, très encadrés, avec des mesures qui sont drastiques en ce qui concerne la protection, la surveillance, etc etc
donc là, je pense que la question d'un chantier qui affaiblit un édifice je n'y crois pas
- monsieur Mouton, ce que vous nous décrivez mène tout droit à l'hypothèse de quelqu'un qui aurait cherché à ce que l'incendie se développe
je me garderais bien de faire la moindre hypothèse
- l'hypothèse des deux départs de feu, elle tient ou elle tient pas ? vous avez entendu ? qu'il y ait eu deux départs de feu ?
j'en ai entendu parler par mon confrère philippe villeneuve qui est l'architecte en chef des monuments historiques, qui m'a donné son accord pour que je participe ici ce soir,
il m'a dit avoir connu un seul départ de feu, dans la noue
c'est-à-dire la partie de toiture qui rencontre le transept
il m'a dit: uniquement ça
il ajoute : il n'y avait pas de chantier à cet endroit là
- pas de chantier à cet endroit là ? c'est-à-dire que celui qui vous a succédé vous a dit que le départ de feu a eu lieu à un endroit où il n'y avait pas de travaux ? il n'y avait pas de chantier ?
voilà
"It's a message she (the cathedral) sends us, I know it, I came back from it
There is something she tells us, the whole thing is to hear it.
"It's not a phoenix, because it's not in ashes. She will live again better. Maybe higher. "
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«C’est un message qu’elle nous envoie. Je le sais», dit Brigitte Macron sur Notre-Dame
Brigitte Macron, qui assistait à la messe chrismale célébrée dans l’église Saint-Sulpice suite à l’incendie qui a ravagé Notre-Dame de Paris, y a exprimé sa profonde émotion, quitte à voir derrière le drame «un message que la cathédrale nous envoie».fr.sputniknews.com
So now Brigitte Macron says :
Pretty weird.
On the picture this is la "noue", the valley, where the fire began.
Here is the inside :
It seems really unlikely that a fire could break out there, without electricity, without renovation work, without anything that could cause it.
The official version says that someone checked the wrong place, but we don't know where it was. If someone went up to the attic, he would have immediately seen the fire.
Brigitte Macron, who attended the Chrism Mass in St. Sulpice church following the fire that destroyed Notre-Dame de Paris, has expressed her deep emotion, even see behind the drama "a message that the cathedral sends us. "
To celebrate the Chrism Mass in St. Sulpice church, the First Lady gave free rein to her emotions and explained that the fire that ravaged Our Lady of Paris was a "message" to all French .
"It's a message that [the Cathedral, note] sends us. I know, I came back. There's something she says, the trick is to hear it. "
According to Ms. Macron, Notre Dame de Paris is "the symbol of all that unites us":
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© SPUTNIK . OXANA BOBROVITCH
Restoration of Our Lady: "Five years, that seems very short, but why not?"
"This cathedral is our history, it is our heritage, it is our culture. It is a cathedral of poetry, "she said. She particularly stressed that the cathedral was still standing: "This is not a phoenix, because it is not in ashes. It will revive even better. Maybe higher. "
A fire broke out Monday, April 15 in the Cathedral Notre Dame de Paris. The public prosecutor of Paris said Tuesday, April 16 as accidental track was privileged. According to firefighters, the fire was "potentially linked" to the renovation of this historic monument, the most visited in Europe.
The day after the tragedy, in his message to the nation, Emmanuel Macron has announced that the Notre Dame de Paris would be rebuilt within 5 years.
Two Alarms -
The scaffolders started leaving work at 5:20 p.m. on Monday evening and by 5:50 p.m. - half an hour before the first alarm sounded - all were gone, Eskenazi said.
“The procedure says that at the end of the day, electricity on the site is turned off. So we turn off the lifts and the scaffolding’s lights, and we hand over the keys to the sacristy’s concierge,” he said.
“That’s exactly what the workers did. They followed the procedure, and it was of course duly noted in the registers at the sacristy.” There was no welding machine or blowtorch on the site, he added. Police sources confirmed no welding was being done at this stage to the site.
- have you been surprised that fire has grown so rapidly?
absolutely. incomprehensible. I am amazed. it's very old oak, and it looks like it burned like matches, as if it were another tree species, very very volatile or combustible
I do not understand
I really do not understand at all, it's very impressive
(...)
- because we hear a lot of comments that say, what is called the forest, this very large area, very important, very voluminous frame this frame could burn, finally, almost like little wood? You don't think so, you say that this type of wood does not burn like that
Oh no, you know 800 year old oak, .. try to burn it.
(...)
There are measuring and detection devices permanently in the attic I want to add one thing, is that the detection devices that are in the attic are powered in such way that there is no risk of short circuit we have deported all the elements of connections in the stairs, behind the fire doors the second observation I'm going to make is this, and maybe you're going to be surprised when you look at the statistics on damages in buildings, you see that historic buildings are almost nothing
- Because there are very few historic buildings, simply
No, no, it's because these sites are very closely monitored, very well supervised, with measures that are drastic with regard to protection, surveillance, etc.
so here I think the question of a renovation project that weakens a building, I do not believe that
Yes:Did anyone already mention this? Simultaniously the al-aqsa mosque in jerusalem was in flames.
On the same day, a fire broke in al-aqsa mosque in Jerusalem (it's basically a Byzantine basilica). There are no damages but the coincidence is interesting nonetheless.
I suspect, the spire was the main target, also. This article may provide a clue?
Time-lapse shots of Notre-Dame spire may yield clues on blaze
Footage from the camera, which was placed on the northern belltower and is now in the hands of investigators, shows the first smoke coming out of the spire’s base, Marc Eskenazi, a representative for Europe Echafaudage, told Reuters.
[...] President Emmanuel Macron might have hoped he was striking a note for modernity and openness in announcing an international competition to design a new spire for Notre-Dame cathedral, but he may have opened a can of worms instead.
“Since the spire wasn’t part of the original cathedral,” the Elysee Palace said in a statement late on Wednesday, “the President of the Republic hopes there will be some reflection and a contemporary architectural gesture might be envisaged.”
Computer-generated pictures online included ideas for a soaring glass needle to replace the 91-metre (300 foot) spire, which was added to the cathedral in the mid-1800s, replacing a Medieval one that was removed in 1786.
So small from a distance... oh it reminds about the antenas on proteins that interact with DNA (cf last session) !!Thanks jsf for those details on the "crochets". It is very interesting I think. And I never knew about the snakes on the spires they are so small from a distance.
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That were my thoughts, too. I read somewhere and cant find it anymore that most of the art was already moved out of ND, due to the renovation coming (it didnt start yet). It will be indeed very interesting whether they all find back to the Cathedral when the renovation will be finished...I believe that a site like ND with so much art pieces, so important the cathedral was, me too it is not normal this fire. So the question is why they put the fire and who? It passed in my mind that they wanted to put the fire to recollect money and also some art artifacts for them telling that they burned in the fire. It is a big business a cathedral like this, like a museum. Also, they know how sad the French people will be now, so all this sadness is food for them whoever they are. They are black for sure.
Yes it certainly seems like there is more to this than meets the eye.Exactly. Anyone who is part of an emergency response system knows that per protocol, you have to be there within minutes. Firefighters usually materialize in no time. If it really took them 50 minutes to get there, that makes them among the most incompetent response team in history. No rescue system lives uncovered a main city by more than half an hour. It would be interesting to see what they have to say.
The European election campaign of French President Emmanuel Macron is being suspended for now following the Notre-Dame Cathedral fire, said French politician Nathalie Loiseau, who is spearheading the campaign.
“We are all going through a moment of extreme sadness. The ‘Renaissance’ list is understandably part of this moment of national unity. We are therefore suspending the campaign until further notice,” Loiseau wrote on her Twitter account.
Macron’s ruling LREM party has put up candidates for the EU election under a list called ‘Renaissance’.
“In a few weeks, the European elections will be decisive for the future of our continent. Europe has never been as necessary since World War Two as it is now and yet never has Europe been in such danger,” Macron wrote. “Nationalism offers nothing. It is a project of rejection.”
PR Operation: Macron Uses Notre Dame Blaze to Stage Show of ‘National Unity’
Gilbert Mercier, editor-in-chief of News Junkie Post and author of “The Orwellian Empire,” joined Radio Sputnik’s Loud & Clear Wednesday to discuss how French President Emmanuel Macron’s solemn speech in the aftermath of the fire that devastated the Cathedral of Notre Dame could boost Macron’s approval ratings.
"It might sound kind of cynical on my part, but for politicians, it seems like all disasters can be used for potential political gain," Mercier told hosts John Kiriakou and Brian Becker.
The Notre Dame Cathedral, one of Paris' most widely recognized landmarks, was engulfed by flames Monday evening. The fire is believed to have started accidentally during renovation work underway inside the cathedral. The UNESCO World Heritage site, built between the 12th and 14th centuries, has been the site of royal marriages, coronations and farewell ceremonies for prominent French officials over many centuries, and is a prime example of French gothic architecture, Sputnik previously noted.
Following the blaze, Macron addressed the French people in a short televised speech.
"This is not the time for politics," he said.
"I profoundly believe that it is up to us to transform this catastrophe into an opportunity to come together and think about what we were and what we need to become, to improve ourselves," the president added, alluding to a series of measures he plans to outline in response to the wave of so-called Yellow Vests rallies. The protests, which started in France in mid-November 2018 and were triggered by Macron's proposal to raise fuel taxes, have been marked by violence, clashes with law enforcement agents and public disorder.
"I will get back to you as I had promised in the coming days, so we can collectively act together after the great debate, but now is not the time," he added.
"After the time of hardship, the time of reflection and action will come, but let's not mix them up; let's not fall in the trap of precipitation… being head of state [is not] just administering things, [it is] being conscious of our history. It is up to us now to rediscover the thread of our national project — what made us, what unites us," he continued.
"Macron's rating has been going up [following the Notre Dame fire]," Mercier told Sputnik.
"It's kind of an emotional [time], and Macron is using it to create a mood of national communion, if I may say, especially appropriate in the context of Notre Dame being a church," Mercier said.
"It [the fire] has been very useful for Macron, and I have to say this is clever… he is trying to stage [a show] of national unity. It's almost like 9/11 in the US. It's a shock, and the psychological shock is understandable, as Notre Dame was kind of a symbol of resilience and stability, a symbol of something [that has withstood time]. It's kind of almost a metaphor of human frailty," Mercier added.
According to Becker, former US President George W. Bush's approval rating went to 90 percent after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
"[The Notre Dame and September 11 attacks] are dissimilar because thousands of people died [in the September 11 attacks]. [But here], you have Macron, on the ropes, just like George W. Bush was on the ropes, cynically taking advantage of the situation for his own ends," Becker noted.
On Tuesday night, Macron also promised to rebuild Notre Dame in five years.
"And I tell you tonight with force, we are this people of builders," Macron said, according to a translation by NBC News. "We have so much to reconstruct. So yes, we will rebuild the Cathedral of Notre Dame more beautifully. And I would like it to be achieved in five years from now. We can do it. And we will mobilize," he added.
However, according to Mercier, it may be impossible to rebuild the Notre Dame.
"The notion that it's going to be rebuilt and it will be exactly the same is completely false. I'll give you an an example. The [intricate] woodwork… it was all made of oak… It took 80 acres of natural oak trees [to build Notre Dame]. And such oak trees have completely disappeared from France, so it will not be rebuilt because it cannot be rebuilt."
Following the fire, France's three wealthiest families, Arnault, Pinault and Bettencourt, who own conglomerate companies LVMH Group, Kering and L'Oreal, respectively, pledged a combined $565 million as part of a fundraising effort to rebuild Notre Dame. In addition, French oil and gas company Total has promised $113 million, while consulting firm Capgemini will furnish over $1.1 million.
"They are using that as a public relations (PR) operation and will also be, for them, a tax write-off," Mercier added.
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