Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris and Other Catholic Churches

[loreta]

Last sentences of last Cs session :



Yes, indeed. Some spirit in it, for sure.

Yes! some spirit, some energy and some wisdom! Thanks!

 

[Siberia]

Since yesterday, I've kept thinking of a song.

In 1998, there was in France (& Quebec) a musical, titled "Notre-Dame de Paris", based upon the famous Victor Hugo's novel, which was a big popular success.

I've been thinking about this song too, thank you for your comment, Bastian. I don't speak French, but the Russian version of this famous song also sounds quite ominous, here is a rough Google translation:

The time of cathedrals has come,
Black fires
For the flaming hearts.
It is time for the terrible and fatal events
The Age of Disasters -
The century of murderers and creators!

The time has come for pirates and poets!
Gloomy feasts
Carnivals on blood
It is time for sunsets and sunrises,
Days and nights
For suffering and love.

The coming age will replace yesterday’s,
It will come and go
New hordes of barbarians,
The towers will rise and fall,
But a song of love
Will never go silent!

 

[Siberia]

Also, I have just found my own very old CD, here is the photo:

 

[angelburst29]

I suppose the PTB will pass this burden, to all of France with some extra, for other projects.

French insurance firm AXA said on Tuesday it provided insurance coverage for two of the contracting firms that were working on Notre-Dame's restoration prior to the blaze that devastated the cathedral.

France's AXA provided insurance cover for two Notre-Dame contractors

The fire ripped through the cathedral’s roof, where workers from a number of contractors had been carrying out extensive renovations to the spire’s timber-framed supports. Police have begun questioning the workers involved, the prosecutor’s office has said.

In a statement released on Tuesday, AXA said its staff were cooperating fully with investigators.

The French insurer also said it provided insurance coverage for some of the relics and religious artworks displayed in the cathedral.

An AXA spokesman declined to estimate the company’s potential liabilities associated with the damage caused.

Paris public prosecutor Remy Heitz has said there was no obvious indication the fire was arson and they were working on the theory it was an accident.

The French state’s policy is to bear the cost of reconstruction of historical monuments such as Notre-Dame cathedral in the event of disasters.

President Emmanuel Macron has said France will launch a fundraising campaign to rebuild Notre-Dame. Several of France’s business elite have already pledged several hundred millions euros to help.

While some of the large paintings at Notre-Dame could not be taken down in time, the country’s culture minister, Franck Riester, said a number of the many artworks in the cathedral had been rescued and put in safe storage.

Insurers expect France to bear Notre-Dame rebuilding cost

Major European insurers expect France to bear the bulk of the cost of rebuilding the Notre-Dame Cathedral after a fire tore through the eight-centuries-old Paris landmark on Monday.

Old financing dispute hangs over Notre-Dame blaze donations

For years Notre-Dame cathedral was caught in a dispute between the city's archdiocese and the French state over who should pay for repairs to its crumbling gargoyles, collapsed balustrades and weather-eroded Gothic facades.

France opens the question: should Notre-Dame be rebuilt as it was?

France will open the redesign of Notre-Dame de Paris cathedral's historic spire to international architects after Monday night's catastrophic blaze that gutted the oak-framed roof and sent the towering spire crashing through the vaulted ceiling.

France's Pinault family: will not seek tax breaks on Notre Dame donation
The family of French billionaire businessman Francois-Henri Pinault said it would not be seeking any tax breaks regarding its 100 million euros ($113 million) donation for repair work to the city's damaged Notre-Dame Cathedral.

 

[Galaxia2002]

Same here. We were having dinner in the kitchen, then I suddenly felt very tired. I remember exclaiming "Oh my God", then someone asked "what?", but I didn't finish the sentence.

This "Oh my God" came from I don't where and, although it usually introduces a full sentence, it didn't lead to anything. It was quite peculiar because it was the first time this kind of out the blue isolated interjection happened to me.

Same here. I have felt very tired this week.

I found an article in Spanish about why is not a good idea to spread water in a fire of these characteristics. I will add that if the stone structure is heat and suddenly cooled by the water, the thermal shock will break the walls.

The dangers of extinguishing a fire with water

Ribera Blanco, deputy director of the Heritage Institute, warns that the weight of the stone increases by absorbing moisture and could collapse the whole set.

Water could cause an enormous catastrophe, even greater than fire, in the Notre Dame de Paris fire. The cathedral of León, which burned in 1966, was saved precisely because it avoided pouring water on the stone, explains Javier Ribera Blanco, professor of Architectural History and Restoration and deputy director of the Cultural Heritage Institute. According to the historian, it is better to let the wood and slate of Notre Dame burn than to spray the nerves with water, because the stone absorbs the humidity, increases the weight and the whole ensemble could collapse. "In León the same thing happened fifty years ago. The stonemason sounded the alarm, avoided wetting the stone and the cathedral was saved," he explains on Monday.

Ribera Blanco recalls that the Parisian chair was restored in 1830 by Eugène Viollet-le-Duc, who reconstructed the roofs and the central needle with a slate covering that imitated the old roof. "The dome is burning, which is one of the parts that Viollet-le-Duc restored and where you could see a set of sculptures of the 12 apostles going up to heaven and where the restorer himself was included because he was an egomaniac," says the professor.

According to the historian, the value of the cathedral of Paris is "incalculable". "It is the identity of the French. It is the cathedral of the kings of France, which after the Revolution passed to the people. It is a fantastic source of economic resources since it is the great model of the French Gothic". The professor remembers that together with those of Chartres and León it conforms the great trio of the European Gothic.

For Ribera Blanco, fire can also kill the stained glass windows, which are 60% original. "The fire will melt the lead that unites them and they will explode if the flames are not controlled in time". The specialist believes that what is most in danger is the choir, which is in the middle of the nave, as well as the transcoro that gives to the outside. In them there are numerous sculptures and Renaissance altarpieces of great value," he says.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

 

[Hi_Henry]

Someone has written some of the information that I provided in a more straight forward way regarding igniting oak wood. Here it is,
source

Will a block of wood burst into flames if placed in a 350 degree oven?

If you're talking Fahrenheit, you might get smoke but you're not going to get flame. Paper has a flashpoint of 451 degrees Fahrenheit. For wood, it depends on the type of wood - it differs somewhat, but there are some general guidelines: typically you're going to need a temperature of at least 572 degrees F. (So if you mean 350 C, it's possible, depending on exact conditions). Oak, however, has an autoignition point of 900F (482C), so it wouldn't even come close. (Fuels and Chemicals - Auto Ignition Temperatures)

Fire requires three things to occur: heat, oxygen, and a fuel source (Fire triangle). Actually, it also requires a chemical reaction to occur (fire tetrahedron), but that usually happens when you have the other three.
Many people don't know this, but solid objects don't burn. Rather, they reach a state where outgassing of combustible compounds occurs (smoke), and it is these gaseous compounds that mix with oxygen and burn. This occurs practically in contact with the solid object, so it looks like the solid object is burning.

You need this to start happening, which requires heat. You're supplying that. You also need the gasses to mix at the right ratio with oxygen. So, if you are able to get the wood hot enough it could start burning. Briefly. An oven is a closed space. Although it isn't airtight, there isn't really anywhere for the spent combustion gasses to go, and there isn't enough opening for enough oxygen to enter. So if you somehow managed to get the wood hot enough, it would most likely smoulder and smoke, but not actually ignite. At least, it's not likely as long as the oven is closed.

So how did all this happen in the case of ND ? What is the source of this heating ? A spark did it ? A overheated XXX did it ? But there was NO WORK BEING DONE that day !!!

 

[Esote]

Here is a link to a French video explaining how the firemen acted and why :

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=884275248578513

Nothing wrong in this regard, actually it does seem that they did a great job, avoiding the cathedral to be completely destroyed...

 

[bianca etezete]

April 17, 2019 - How One Man's deleted Tweet launched a Worldwide Notre Dame Conspiracy Theory
How One Man’s Deleted Tweet Launched a Worldwide Notre Dame Conspiracy Theory
By William.Sommer@thedailybeast.com (Will Sommer),
As politician Christopher J. Hale watched the Notre Dame cathedral burn on Monday from Washington, D.C., he heard from a Jesuit friend in Europe who claimed that the blaze had been deliberately set.

Hale, who ran unsuccessfully for Congress as a Democrat in Tennessee last year and writes opinion columns for Time Magazine, tweeted his friend’s claim to his few thousand followers.

"A Jesuit friend in Paris who works in #NotreDame told me cathedral staff said the fire was intentionally set,” Hale wrote.

Hale quickly tweeted that his friend had “zero evidence” for the claim beyond a purported conversation with cathedral staff, and he deleted the original tweet minutes later.

But it only took those few minutes for his tweet to become a core piece of proof for right-wing conspiracy theorists who are convinced, without any actual evidence, that the fire was set by terrorists. With one tweet, Hale became sucked into a right-wing media machine eager to both rile up its audience and earn more traffic on social media.

“In retrospect, I absolutely never should have tweeted it in the first place,” Hale told The Daily Beast on Tuesday. “I don’t think I had the foresight about how much the worst parts of the internet will grasp for straws in their conspiracy theories.”

Priest 'rushed into Notre Dame' to save Crown of Thorns from raging inferno

Shep Smith Shuts Down Guest Who Suggests Notre Dame Fire Might Not Be Accidental
Shep Smith Shuts Down Guest Who Suggests Notre Dame Fire Might Not Be Accidental
Shep Smith Shuts Down Guest Who Suggests Notre Dame Fire Might Not Be Accidental (Video)

A Fox News on-air interview about the Notre Dame fire in Paris was abruptly shut down after a French guest suggested — without any proof — that the fire consuming the famed cathedral may not have been the result of an accident.

On Monday, Philippe Karsenty, a former French right-wing political candidate, suggested to Shep Smith that the church fire may have been set by possible terrorists, a theory that had already been floated by InfoWars soon after the fire began.

“It’s like a 9/11, it’s a French 9/11, you know? And it’s a big shock,” Karsenty told Smith, adding, “we’ve had churches desecrated each and every week all over France.” Karsenty then went on to say that “of course, you will hear the story of the political correctness which will tell you it’s probably an accident.”

'There Is No Invasion'“ Sir, we’re not going to speculate here of the cause of something which we don’t know,” Smith quickly interjected. “If you have observations or you know something, we would love to hear it.”

Karsenty explained: “I’m just telling you something, what we need to be ready,” but Smith shut him down a second time before cutting him from the segment entirely.

“No, sir, we’re not doing that here, not now, not on my watch,” Smith said.

“The man on the phone with us has absolutely no information of any kind about the origin of this fire and neither do I.”

“The fire investigators will at some point come to a determination about what caused this and conspiracy theories about anything are worthless and in many cases counterproductive and injurious to society,”

Smith added. “And those who entertain them are not acting in the best interests of the people of this planet.”

Karsenty, a French media analyst, was convicted in 2013 of defamation after he accused a state television network of staging a video of a young boy being killed during a fight between Palestinian gunmen and Israeli soldiers.

You can watch the full exchange in the video below. (at the Wrap link above).

~~~

Stefan Roth‏ @dasroth
Another one that is sad about the fire in notre dame #notredamefire #notredame pic.twitter.com/UqNwaudgjQ

pic.twitter.com/hCfGO8c9yd

I am just curious, in the hunchback-cartoon above, those smoke clouds resemble somehow arabic writing... or are they? And if they are, does anyone know what they read?

Or is it only mimicking arabic writing and in this way pointing to an muslim attack?

 

[Ellipse]

There is this screenshot on the Net which apparently show the content of the site parisinfo.com before it was changed:



In the red box it read:

Monday 15 April 2019: exceptional closing at 5:30pm

Monday is the day of the fire and the normal closing in April of Notre-Dame was 6:30pm. For memory the fire started at 6:50pm.

Here is a screenshot of parisinfo.com showing the hours:



In English:

 

[thorbiorn]

I tried to locate the original video on Brut. I don't know if I succeeded, but here is a candidate, showing the live transmission:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1088064064725005

In the main there are only likes, sads and wow. This however may not reveal the reality completely. I guess a moderator has the power to delete certain responses.

What is more interesting is to scroll down and read some of the comments. They reflect much more diverse reactions. At the time of posting there were 103k expressions distributed between

That means around 6 % selected love or smiley. As I scrolled down among the "smileys", I found most had names that reveal they are related with Islamic cultures. When I read the comments on the main site, I found some of Algerian origin bear a grudge towards France for its role as a colonial power. I also found that several who said they were atheist or pagan were still sad and moved by the event. And there were a few, apparently French, giving a smiley who bear a grudge against the church for cases of abuse including pedophilia that members of the church have committed. For the list of reactions check out: Skráðu þig inn á Facebook | Facebook and make your own conclusions.

One community that gave a smiley was, as seen in the above picture, "Tiaret ya "lhbiba". On their FB at the time of
Tiaret ya lhbiba ⒁
April 15 at 7:44 PM
I found a reposting of the burning of the church. It had 97 reactions which were distributed in this manner:


From this small investigation, it appears that the conclusion of the video, by PJW holds. Among those thinking this fire deserved a smiley, there are proportionately more that on closer inspection belong to Islamic culture, and on the site of one Muslim community that gave it a smiley, there were proportionately more that also gave it a smiley or a love, even though there in this group also were people who became sad. For the list of likes and smileys on this site, check: Skráðu þig inn á Facebook | Facebook

It seems there is a second part of the Brut transmission posted in a separate post, if anyone is interested:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=877747759234299

 

[Approaching Infinity]

And then there's the Israeli rabbinical response...

Are Jews required to burn churches? After Notre Dame, Israeli rabbi says, "It's complicated"

Prominent settler rabbi, Shlomo Aviner, ruled today (Tuesday) that burning churches outside of the Land of Yisrael "isn't our job for now", but as for the Holy Land, "the issue is more complicated". Aviner seemed to leave the question of burning...

www.sott.net

The questioner is here referring to the Halachic ruling that churches are considered idolatry, and should be destroyed.

Aviner replied as follows:

"This isn't our job for now. There is no mitzvah to seek out churches abroad and burn them down. In our holy land, however, the issue is more complicated. Indeed, the Satmar Rabbi noted one of his arguments against immigrating to Israel, that here it is indeed a mitzvah to burn churches; and by not doing so, those [immigrating to Israel] are committing a sin. Yet Rabbi Menachem Mendel Kasher, in his book 'The Great Period', rejected the Satmar Rabbi's words, citing a midrash, forbidding burning [churches], since if we burn, we'll have to rebuild, and it's a greater sin to rebuild [a church] than leave it standing. [Here Aviner cites his own book vs. the Satmar Rabbi] That church in Paris, too, will surely be rebuilt."

 

[Hi_Henry]

I read an interesting sarcastic comment that is so logical that for anyone who loves good reasoning should bring them a huge smile.

Since ND had a working fire alarm system (of course), why is it that this fire alarm system did nothing for 23 minutes after the first "false" alarm at 6:20 ?

Inquiring minds Would Like To Know Mr. Macron. Yes, we are not holding our breaths waiting for an official "fake news" explanation.

 

[Hi_Henry]

And then there's the Israeli rabbinical response...

Are Jews required to burn churches? After Notre Dame, Israeli rabbi says, "It's complicated"

Prominent settler rabbi, Shlomo Aviner, ruled today (Tuesday) that burning churches outside of the Land of Yisrael "isn't our job for now", but as for the Holy Land, "the issue is more complicated". Aviner seemed to leave the question of burning...

www.sott.net

Holy Smoke.

Ha ha ha ....

Perhaps DNA modification could be good for him. This rabbi is beyond repair. Please Jesus, come back and straighten this thing out. Ha ha ha ha .....

Forgive me for laughing but these people are Jokers. Only problem, they are serious.

From a comment

It would be nice if CUFI (Christians United for Israel) would let their followers know that to NOT burn down a Christian church is a SIN for Orthodox religious Jews.

They sure have one tough logic problem to solve next Sunday. But being caught in a mind warp will not allow them to experience Reality.

So the potential list/permutation of possible volunteers for the ND Arson Operation is endless. Though so

 

[jsf]

Since ND had a working fire alarm system (of course), why is it that this fire alarm system did nothing for 23 minutes after the first "false" alarm at 6:20 ?

They said

someone discovered an outbreak of fire as of 18h30, well before the second alert of 18h43. What seems to confirm one of the assumptions of the investigators in Parisien: 18h20, a computer bug reported a bad sector to the security officer. He would not have found the fire until he returned from his round. Some precious minutes of lost before the intervention of the firemen.

Something else:

_france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/grand-est/notre-dame-paris-societe-mosellane-bras-qui-restaurait-fleche-s-exprime-face-presse-1656892.html?fbclid=IwAR2Lkw1S5_z1gh6QZ8sbCOBAIrY_qvaFK4B-k985KSeirvHfhIYiRfz6iOo

That day, the renovators placed scaffolding: "our tools are hammers, 22mm combination wrench " says Julien Le Bras, nothing that could allow a fire.

"I hear about everything ... I hear about failing elevator, welding, many people who speak without even knowing.It is very unfortunate, because in front of all that, there are people who suffer. Indeed, several assumptions of "pseudo-experts" of social networks appear for some time. A cigarette butt thrown on the frame? "We are on oak frames, huge sections and really exceptional, it takes a real source of heat to succeed in igniting this type of sections of wood"

 

[Metrist]

Ubisoft, maker of Assassin's Creed games is offering AC Unity on PC free of charge for 1 week. From the Ubisoft webpage:

'...we want to give everyone the chance to experience the majesty and beauty of Notre-Dame the best way we know how. For one week, we will be giving Assassin's Creed Unity away free on PC, for anyone who wants to enjoy it.'

They have nice historical architectural depictions in their games, so it is a good way to explore the cathedral in 3d fashion.