FOTCM Chateau visit?

[GqSoul]

I'm sure a lot of people here have dreamt about a life where the universe provides for all their material needs so that they can just sit back and read the recommended books, post on the forum and spend all their time pursuing whatever projects and hobbies take their fancy. I'd love that! Can you see how that would be me placing a demand on how I think I should grow? "oh, if only everything was the way I wanted it to be, then I would grow and then I could be helpful." It's bargaining with the universe.

So, you've come along and PM'd Laura with what looks like an attempt at buttering her up with complements to get a visit to then go ahead and ask for a loan of money in person (I'm making an assumption here but I don't think it's too far off the mark). She didn't respond, so naturally you thought "she must be busy". Instead of respecting that, you decided to force a response by posting here. That's quite rude.

IMO the situation you are in now is the perfect one for you to grow and give and share. You don't need anyone to prop up your business so you can follow your idea of what growth is. You can go ahead and start now:

1. Be a good Obvyatel - provide for your family's financial needs. (giving)
2. Be a good dad - give your child/children all the love and support they need (giving/sharing)
3. Read books/SOTT articles - on your lunch break, 30-mins before bed, on the commute (learning)
4. Post about your experiences here on the forum. (sharing)

It's as easy or as difficult as you make it. Just because you aren't living your idea of what the Work is, doesn't mean you aren't doing the Work/can't do the Work. That's an error in thinking that puts a halt to any Work at all because you spend so much time and energy pining over not having the circumstances that you want. Pull up your bootstraps and improve your situation by your own efforts!

Thanks for the feedback @lainey. I think you're fairly spot on in your description. The request was not externally considerate. However, I was not consciously aware of "buttering" Laura up, but I was thinking from my own perspective instead of theirs.

I'm working on items 1-3 consistently and as you said, it does constitute valuable Work and giving. Indeed I'm trying to pull myself up by the bootstraps. Lamenting my lack of contribution ti the group (#4 on the list) was a big part of what triggered that insensitive request.

Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[GqSoul]

Perhaps Stephen Covey's 7 Habits of Highly Effective People could help you with that, GgSoul (there is a short thread about the book here on the forum). It's an easy (language wise) and intriguing read IMO and helps us develop our character and vision and use our core values as a guide (this may be a simple explanation, I have only read 200 pages so far). Also, Jordan Peterson has helped me a lot in that respect, but Covey is more practical IMO and uses all kinds of examples to drive the point home.

Plus NeurOptimal sessions (another thread) are helping me to get rid of certain patterns and programs (and many other things, networking is one!).

Those are helpful suggestions. Thanks. Dr. JP has also been helpful to me as I work towards these goals. You are right to point out that visiting the chateau will make no difference to the things that only I can do.

.

 

[Chu]

For me the take home message should be that, whether you consciously wanted it or not (probably not), you managed to expose a part of yourself that is "all about you". Remember how the predator is morose and contradictory? You claim to have "higher aims", like helping, etc. But what did your two requests say? "I want to visit - for myself, for what you can give ME." and "I want to borrow money for MY hobby." "And since you don't reply when I want you to, I'll insist and force you to reply because I am important." Nothing in there reflects a desire to help, to not impose yourself on others, to know yourself better, to be a part of this network, etc. And as hlat pointed out, if you can afford taking a trip with your family, then you also would have money for your business were to to budget properly, yes? Instead, you come across as feeling entitled to have your cake and eat it too.

So, when actions don't match your words, it's a good opportunity to see the discrepancy and learn from it.

You may have a very naive view of the Work. That's not unusual, but taking steps like the ones others have suggested could go a long way in making it more real for you. It's not a thing out there, super "spiritual" and what have you. It can and should also be very down to earth.

 

[munaychasumaq]

There are many ways to help...but maybe you should first start by cleaning your house and then help to clean the house of others.

 

[GqSoul]

For me the take home message should be that, whether you consciously wanted it or not (probably not), you managed to expose a part of yourself that is "all about you". Remember how the predator is morose and contradictory? You claim to have "higher aims", like helping, etc. But what did your two requests say? "I want to visit - for myself, for what you can give ME." and "I want to borrow money for MY hobby." "And since you don't reply when I want you to, I'll insist and force you to reply because I am important." Nothing in there reflects a desire to help, to not impose yourself on others, to know yourself better, to be a part of this network, etc. And as hlat pointed out, if you can afford taking a trip with your family, then you also would have money for your business were to to budget properly, yes? Instead, you come across as feeling entitled to have your cake and eat it too.

So, when actions don't match your words, it's a good opportunity to see the discrepancy and learn from it.

You may have a very naive view of the Work. That's not unusual, but taking steps like the ones others have suggested could go a long way in making it more real for you. It's not a thing out there, super "spiritual" and what have you. It can and should also be very down to earth.

Yes, it was indeed very I/me focused and certainly does not match with the ideals that I hold. I do acknowledge that it revealed the predator in me and I am grateful for all the responses that help to shine a spotlight on it. You stated that the Work is down to earth, and that has been the aspect that I'm working on; bringing my actions into congruence with what I'm aiming at.

The self-importance, self-centered orientation and delusion is not one that I want to defend or hold on to. I accept what those actions reveal about my inner state, and will not try to hide from it.

I will continue to take incremental steps to come into congruence. Thanks again.

 

[GqSoul]

There are many ways to help...but maybe you should first start by cleaning your house and then help to clean the house of others.

That's a very practical step. I've started to clean and organize my house and household affairs as a first step.

 

[GqSoul]

Remember how the predator is morose and contradictory? You claim to have "higher aims", like helping, etc. But what did your two requests say? "I want to visit - for myself, for what you can give ME." and "I want to borrow money for MY hobby." "And since you don't reply when I want you to, I'll insist and force you to reply because I am important."

Now that you all have corralled the predator, I'd like to capitalize on the opportunity to corner it further.

Recapitulation:
-I have taken disproportionately more than I have given.

-My deep rooted self importance is the greatest obstacle to my progress

-My self-interest and magical/wishful thinking blinded me to how affronting both requests would be to all associated with this group

-I employ linguistics to try and mask the predator and present myself in a favorable light

-Laura, The Chateau crew, FOTCM, DCM, or anyone else in the incalculable expanse of existence cannot and MUST not save me from my lessons or indulge my insolence.

 

[GqSoul]

With the money you would've spent going for the visit, you can put that money towards your loan request.

Yes, I was being selfish, probably especially to my family. That wouldn't have been wise stewardship of our finances.

 

[hlat]

Yes, I was being selfish, probably especially to my family. That wouldn't have been wise stewardship of our finances.

Dude, you were taking a page out of the psychopathic playbook. The one where the psychopath moves to a new town and new church, and after a little while hits them up for money to spend on himself.

You were going to take money from FOTCM and then spend that FOTCM money on your trip. You were essentially asking FOTCM to pay for your trip.

 

[GqSoul]

Dude, you were taking a page out of the psychopathic playbook. The one where the psychopath moves to a new town and new church, and after a little while hits them up for money to spend on himself.

You were going to take money from FOTCM and then spend that FOTCM money on your trip. You were essentially asking FOTCM to pay for your trip.

Yeah, I think it amounts to that. Of course that's not how I framed it in my mind, but that's the reality.

 

[stellar]

Yeah, I think it amounts to that. Of course that's not how I framed it in my mind, but that's the reality.

I guess that's just a small example of why the forum is so effective. We don't have to see the person physically but their intent does come through with their words sooner or later and paints a picture in our mind what we are really looking at. May still be a work in progress but, hey, it's kept some nasties at bay in the past.
Some people gotta get up pretty early to wing something by this lot.

 

[GqSoul]

We don't have to see the person physically but their intent does come through with their words sooner or later and paints a picture in our mind what we are really looking at.

Yeah, you know even if I didn't intend to ask for a mirror initially, the protective insight of the group actually gave me the clarity that I was desperate for.

It didn't come in the way I was pushing for, but it is the "immediate divine intervention" that I need.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Yeah, I think it amounts to that. Of course that's not how I framed it in my mind, but that's the reality.

You think? You don't even seem appropriately appalled after being caught out for such a selfish scheme. Were you also expecting the Chateau to feed and provide whatever else for your family the entire time you were visiting? Not sure how you framed that in your mind.

 

[Carl]

...

-My self-interest and magical/wishful thinking blinded me to how affronting both requests would be to all associated with this group

-I employ linguistics to try and mask the predator and present myself in a favorable light

At least to my eyes, your writing style comes across as verbose and loquacious with a dose of "nice guy" general fakeness. Baroque perhaps?

Yeah, I think it amounts to that. Of course that's not how I framed it in my mind, but that's the reality.

Isn't it weird how you can think you're doing one thing but actually doing a totally different? And how you can not even know what your actual intentions are? And how you're lying about them to yourself and constructing a narrative that doesn't align with reality at all?

You thought you were doing some good service but were actually trying to manipulate people into giving you some money. If this is your behaviour in one system (the system which is the source of your intellectual knowledge, no less), then isn't it likely you behave the same in all other systems? With family, with life in general? How baroque and contradictory is that?

Shouldn't all this be shocking? What I'm saying is, the predator isn't just some abstract concept or a thing "in" you. It basically is you. It's a really scary realization to have. And most of us have to have it shown to us again and again, and it really hurts and its very ugly.

And because you've learned all the terminology but never actually put it into practice by networking here, you're just now banging your head against truth. And to be honest you seem to be taking it rather suspiciously well so far. Maybe take some more time to reflect on all this.

 

[Candice]

Focus on gratitude for what you DO have, especially the lessons. I find focusing on gratitude puts me in the now, makes everything clear and I can feel things “flowing”. Assumptions, wishful thinking and forcing things will always “constrict”. These assumptions can even be who you assume you are, what you should be doing or where you should be located, assumptions of destiny even. There can be no clarity with assumptions. Honestly I have so much gratitude for finding Laura’s work and for her and the rest of the groups continued efforts to share their hard work with the rest of us. This inspires me to find ways to share with others too. I don’t need to visit the Chateau to find my “flow”, to create and share.

I think some review may be in order. I love this quote of the C’s:
It is not "where you are that matters, it is who and or what you are that counts."