FOTCM Chateau visit?

[GqSoul]

You think? You don't even seem appropriately appalled after being caught out for such a selfish scheme. Were you also expecting the Chateau to feed and provide whatever else for your family the entire time you were visiting? Not sure how you framed that in your mind.

I am truly appalled. Not at being caught out only, but at seeing myself clearly from an objective 3rd party perspective. I didnt consciously set out to perpetrate my selfish scheme, which means that lack of awareness makes me even more of a liability to myself and others. I do now see how destructive it could have been and I'm trying not to hide from it.

 

[GqSoul]

At least to my eyes, your writing style comes across as verbose and loquacious with a dose of "nice guy" general fakeness. Baroque perhaps?



Isn't it weird how you can think you're doing one thing but actually doing a totally different? And how you can not even know what your actual intentions are? And how you're lying about them to yourself and constructing a narrative that doesn't align with reality at all?

You thought you were doing some good service but were actually trying to manipulate people into giving you some money. If this is your behaviour in one system (the system which is the source of your intellectual knowledge, no less), then isn't it likely you behave the same in all other systems? With family, with life in general? How baroque and contradictory is that?

Shouldn't all this be shocking? What I'm saying is, the predator isn't just some abstract concept or a thing "in" you. It basically is you. It's a really scary realization to have. And most of us have to have it shown to us again and again, and it really hurts and its very ugly.

And because you've learned all the terminology but never actually put it into practice by networking here, you're just now banging your head against truth. And to be honest you seem to be taking it rather suspiciously well so far. Maybe take some more time to reflect on all this.

@Carl, everything you say hits the bullseye. It's a better description than I could give. My writing is baroque and contradictory, and I do experience the predator as me, not merely as some philosophical construct. You're also right in that I know the words and haven't lived the meaning.

I'm not taking this well at all. I'm rocked to my core. It has left me shaking. It seems like I'm taking this well because I'm trying my best not to squirm and hide, dance with words, and mitigate the shock like I started out doing. The more plainly and directly I write, the closer I am to saying something really true. Being effusive about how grotesque this aspect of me is, would only be manipulative; trying to convince everyone of my contrition.

I am sorry.

I'm letting it hit me. I want to see. I don't want anyone to be nice about it.

 

[GqSoul]

@nicklebleu
You called it right. I did not address Laura respectfully. I tried to squirm out of recognizing and acknowledging that when you posted.

@Laura
I was impetuous and presumptuous. It was manipulative to address you the way I did. Reading your work does not establish any close relationship between us and it must have been galling to have me address you so familiarly. I am sorry.

 

[GqSoul]

Focus on gratitude for what you DO have, especially the lessons. I find focusing on gratitude puts me in the now, makes everything clear and I can feel things “flowing”. Assumptions, wishful thinking and forcing things will always “constrict”. These assumptions can even be who you assume you are, what you should be doing or where you should be located, assumptions of destiny even. There can be no clarity with assumptions. Honestly I have so much gratitude for finding Laura’s work and for her and the rest of the groups continued efforts to share their hard work with the rest of us. This inspires me to find ways to share with others too. I don’t need to visit the Chateau to find my “flow”, to create and share.

I think some review may be in order. I love this quote of the C’s:
It is not "where you are that matters, it is who and or what you are that counts."

Thank you for the encouragement. This process has surfaced a lot of assumptions that I need to face. Thanks.

 

[Gwenllian]

And because you've learned all the terminology but never actually put it into practice by networking here, you're just now banging your head against truth. And to be honest you seem to be taking it rather suspiciously well so far. Maybe take some more time to reflect on all this.

I couldn't agree more. If I get a mirror I need time to digest and reflect, also to process the hurt when I realise how my ugly or infantile parts got the better of me. What helps me a lot is paying close attention to my thoughts and observe where I go wrong in my thinking, but that takes time and a lot of effort and I don't always catch my thinking errors (straight away) but I am getting better at it with the help of this forum.

 

[Jones]

GqSoul, I know that my discernment can be off and that people can handle things differently based on temperament etc, even so I'm having trouble believing you.

From my experience, if you're really feeling this:-

I'm not taking this well at all. I'm rocked to my core. It has left me shaking.

Then this becomes very difficult - if not impossible in many cases.

The more plainly and directly I write [.....].

My impression of your responses in both of your recent threads is that you have remained calm and consistent - which is not what I would ordinarily expect from someone who is truly feeling what you claim to be. I could be mistaken.

 

[Chu]

My impression of your responses in both of your recent threads is that you have remained calm and consistent - which is not what I would ordinarily expect from someone who is truly feeling what you claim to be. I could be mistaken.

Well, IMO, it can go both ways: some people are able to remain calm even when they are shocked. Others have read about what it should feel like, and because the Work is still pretty much theoretical to them, they think they are feeling it. In either case, it's better to at least "fake it till you make it" (provided one is sincere in their aim to learn) than to close yourself off completely. Maybe something is sticking now, maybe later. In the end, only the results will show the person and others whether the mirror was effective or not.

Now that you all have corralled the predator, I'd like to capitalize on the opportunity to corner it further.

That's a very good initiative, I think, as long as you stay open to learning more and more, if this is only the first layer, and to understanding that the predator is YOU, unless and until you decide to change some things.

Recapitulation:
-I have taken disproportionately more than I have given.

Yes. And maybe you have done that in other areas of your life. Thinking about it might give you more practical examples.

-My deep rooted self importance is the greatest obstacle to my progress

Yes, or maybe just one layer of the onion, but it's a good start. You would next need to try to see exactly what self-importance is in you case, and how it manifests. What are the main triggers, etc. Otherwise, it may stay a just a concept in your mind.

-My self-interest and magical/wishful thinking blinded me to how affronting both requests would be to all associated with this group

Yes. But see above for not letting it just be a concept.

-I employ linguistics to try and mask the predator and present myself in a favorable light

Not linguistics (that's a science). You just employ what you are probably used to, which is "impression management", and it may work in some contexts out there, but not around here. Language can say a lot about a person, indeed.

-Laura, The Chateau crew, FOTCM, DCM, or anyone else in the incalculable expanse of existence cannot and MUST not save me from my lessons or indulge my insolence.

Yes, but also, what service would we be providing here in this forum if we were all about calming the other person down, indulging their programs, their manipulative behaviors and such? For that, you can get any acquaintance out there to do it. We can only help each other see, and the rest, like you say, is up to each person. So, you get what you give, and believe me, it's proportional. As long as you are still a "lurker", you don't get much out of it. You've been here for 10 years, for example, and only now are you seemingly seeing something of importance to your growth. Once again, it depends on each person, how far they wish to go. Like others, I would suggest taking some time to really think about all this, and to sit with the tension it created, however small or big it is.

FWIW!

 

[Akoeta]

Where is the LOVE?

We are all equal!!! Laura is not a saint and the chateau is not paradise.
Everything happens for a reason, to learn from and evolve.
If you know how much power we all have, it is magic!
LOVE to you all.☀
PS I think it is only normal that if you like the Cassiopaeans you would like to check out the messager(s).
If I am in France, I am going to knock on their door, shake their hands, give a present and I am on My Way.

 

[GqSoul]

Yes, or maybe just one layer of the onion, but it's a good start. You would next need to try to see exactly what self-importance is in you case, and how it manifests. What are the main triggers, etc. Otherwise, it may stay a just a concept in your mind.

Impression Management is the term that came to me as I thought about my response to what was being shown.

@Jones, I understand that people won't/shouldn't believe me, and that only my actions can evidence the impact of this experience.

I don't see the benefit of arguing, or trying to defend my "character". That will prevent me from taking action.

During the times that I've been active, I have asked for a mirror on the most critical aspects of life that I was struggling with. Primarily issues to do with making the work practical, applying the principles in my relationships and in my career. I have grown from the feedback provided and do try in earnest.

This revelation, my colossal self importance, is the most revolutionary realization so far. I have been aware of my self-importance, but only acknowledged it in a "limited hangout" kind of way. Like "you know, everyone feels self-important to some degree"; or putting something out there that is objectionable, but not reprehensible. In my case, it is a defining principal feature. I have given many hours of thought to how this manifests and I'm barely scratching the surface. I have been reviewing my life and can see how all the major crises I've experienced are rooted in my false self- concept and its rabid defense. I've lost $15/hr and 150k/year opportunities because of it, as one example.

The crisis that I'm in now is because of that "self-esteem". That is my sacred cow. That is a place I've hidden away and made untouchable. Impression management has gone hand in hand with that. Being characteristically calm has also served that. The way I use language serves it as well. Everything serves it. If I accept the most reprehensible possibility as really and truly applying to me, it gives me very little room to squirm out of the lesson.

I want to get at what is essential in me. I'm engaging in these threads as a step, in perhaps a lifelong process of exorcising my self-focus.

I know there's a place in me that can receive light. I know there's an aspect that wants to give and serve. I want to free that side from the influence of the other.

I was being selfish when I PMd Laura in May. I wasn't being consciously and willfully malicious. I wasn't calculating, plotting, or scheming to set the stage to ask the FOTCM for money. At that point I was flush with cash, with lucrative prospects looming. In what I wrote, there are seeds of truth and a sincere attempt to express something real, entangled in all the rest of it.

I did subsequently ask for money this week, when I was dealing with the financial mess I created. Additionally, I was demanding in pushing for a response to the PM. I was panicking, and acted selfishly again. I tried to justify this when called out for it. I would've been taking from the group for my own needs, both financially and emotionally/energetically. It doesn't help me to deny that.

Again, I was not consciously being malicious, or trying to set up a long con. What I'm accepting and acknowledging is that the RESULTS were the same as though I had set out intentionally to do harm.

Beyond that, if there is something dark and malevolent seething under the surface or hiding at my core --- and it's inspiring my association with QFG --- I don't want to be blind to it. I would like it revealed, and if I am not showing sincerity in fighting it, then the only remedy is to be banned or voluntarily cease association.

I have faced many crises in the last 10 years and I didn't ask the group for money (my insufficiencies manifested in many other ways in daily living). I have sought to contribute funds when I could do so regularly. Whenever I came into means to give to an expressed need, I did so. It's important to me as an expression of gratitude. I won't claim that it is altruistic, or not contaminated with my own self-importance, but I think it reflects an aspect that does want to give from the heart.

I take for granted that this particular aspect of me, this ingrained self importance, is the tip of the iceberg. I also recognize that this intervention is not a "one and done" and that the only path forward is to focus on serving others instead of protecting, projecting and feeding my unreal self-concept. I accept that what I DO/fail to do is what puts me in control of my progress.

I also take for granted that I'm in a cycle that I can only break with the help of a network who can see clearly and care enough to show me what is real.

I am taking this seriously. I owe it to my family. It's a matter of my soul.

 

[genero81]

Beyond that, if there is something dark and malevolent seething under the surface or hiding at my core --- and it's inspiring my association with QFG --- I don't want to be blind to it. I would like it revealed, and if I am not showing sincerity in fighting it, then the only remedy is to be banned or voluntarily cease association.

Just allow time to process it and don't do anything rash. You're quite articulate when you want to be. Why so quiet on the forum all these years?

I'm not really looking for an immediate answer to that question. Just something for you to reflect on.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

I did subsequently ask for money this week, when I was dealing with the financial mess I created. Additionally, I was demanding in pushing for a response to the PM. I was panicking, and acted selfishly again. I tried to justify this when called out for it. I would've been taking from the group for my own needs, both financially and emotionally/energetically. It doesn't help me to deny that.

Again, I was not consciously being malicious, or trying to set up a long con. What I'm accepting and acknowledging is that the RESULTS were the same as though I had set out intentionally to do harm.

I have faced many crises in the last 10 years and I didn't ask the group for money (my insufficiencies manifested in many other ways in daily living). I have sought to contribute funds when I could do so regularly. Whenever I came into means to give to an expressed need, I did so. It's important to me as an expression of gratitude. I won't claim that it is altruistic, or not contaminated with my own self-importance, but I think it reflects an aspect that does want to give from the heart.

Did you explore other ways of borrowing money or apply to any agencies that offer help or financial assistance first? Why would you think to hit up the Chateau? Because they've so flush with cash they've got pots of money just lying around and nothing better to spend it on? [/SARCASM]. Especially when you admit you got yourself into whatever it was that caused the crisis.

As Chu said, people react to "shocks" in different ways. Some are so aghast they curl up in a ball in the corner (as I would) and others remain calm and carry on. You seem to be the latter. You really are very articulate, answering each post with a form of "yes, you're absolutely correct, I am A/B/C and will do my best to become E/F/G" I really hope that that is true.

But for someone who can think and write all that rationally after being given such a mirror and finding some really bad stuff about themself exposed, I wonder why you couldn't have thought the whole thing through in the first place. You get yourself into a mess, where so were you going to find the money to go to the Chateau? And when you got there, did you had the money to rent a car (unless you live somewhere that you can drive there yourself) or would someone have to take the time out of their busy schedule to go and fetch you to and fro the airport? Then as I mentioned previously, there is the matter of the cost of food and necessities while you are there. You said you would bring your whole family. I have no idea how old your children are. Would someone need to babysit/entertain them while you and/or your wife were "helping" out? Or where they to be "helping" also? All major inconveniences. If you've been around here for 10 years, you really ought to know the lay of the land when it comes to visiting the Chateau by now.

To me, you still come off waaaay to calm and eager to fess up to your bad, and say the right things. If I'm wrong, I apologize in advance.

 

[GqSoul]

Did you explore other ways of borrowing money or apply to any agencies that offer help or financial assistance first? Why would you think to hit up the Chateau? Because they've so flush with cash they've got pots of money just lying around and nothing better to spend it on? [/SARCASM]. Especially when you admit you got yourself into whatever it was that caused the crisis.

As Chu said, people react to "shocks" in different ways. Some are so aghast they curl up in a ball in the corner (as I would) and others remain calm and carry on. You seem to be the latter. You really are very articulate, answering each post with a form of "yes, you're absolutely correct, I am A/B/C and will do my best to become E/F/G" I really hope that that is true.

But for someone who can think and write all that rationally after being given such a mirror and finding some really bad stuff about themself exposed, I wonder why you couldn't have thought the whole thing through in the first place. You get yourself into a mess, where so were you going to find the money to go to the Chateau? And when you got there, did you had the money to rent a car (unless you live somewhere that you can drive there yourself) or would someone have to take the time out of their busy schedule to go and fetch you to and fro the airport? Then as I mentioned previously, there is the matter of the cost of food and necessities while you are there. You said you would bring your whole family. I have no idea how old your children are. Would someone need to babysit/entertain them while you and/or your wife were "helping" out? Or where they to be "helping" also? All major inconveniences. If you've been around here for 10 years, you really ought to know the lay of the land when it comes to visiting the Chateau by now.

To me, you still come off waaaay to calm and eager to fess up to your bad, and say the right things. If I'm wrong, I apologize in advance.

I don't know how to respond or if I should respond. My instinct is that you don't want a response. What I'm saying should be pretty worthless to anyone, because I haven't eatablished any basis of reliability/humanity. I'm not answering for the sake of defense. At least I don't want to. I don't expect to win anyone over.

The questions you asked are probably rhetorical. In case they are not, I will answer in the only way that I know where there is a slight chance of saying something real.

Yes, I am intentionally responding to each post the way you describe. At this point, in my current state, I don't think there is anything I am doing that isn't colored, influenced or outright poisoned with my self-importance or other programs.

I'm hoping that by responding this way, it will be easier (for me) to parse out what is real. I will have to re-read these threads many times, taking time to sit with the shocks each time. It will be harder to avoid the truth this way. I can understand the sarcasm and it's justified.

Here's my family picture: My wife and two year old son. She is now 17 wks pregnant. If I were invited to the Chateau this weekend, it would be a burden financially, emotionally and energetically, even assuming we were all frequency compatible. Food, transportation, lodging, therapy, Reiki, and the disruption of a two year old boy running around. It would be unconscionable.

It's easy to say this now. I want to have been subject to the voice of reality beforehand, and chosen to not ask. I've argued myself out of it for 10 years, but always indulged the fantasy. I'm glad I did ask. It's not a fantasy I now hold.

I'm not special or necessary to the purposes of the FOTCM. Neither is my wife nor my children. I can choose to be a part or not. I can only be a part by giving.

If other forum members continue to provide a mirror, I will continue to engage. This is a form of journaling now. I need the persistent pressure of objective truth to penetrate that fortified inner structure. It needs to be stark and jarring. The last time I had a transformative disintegration, I wailed and bawled, naked in the tub, naked before the truth. It took me years to reintegrate around a more accurate and useful inner and outer perspective. It's time again to breakdown and rebuild. It might be less traumatic if I row towards the Tsunami.

I'm not impervious, although my defense mechanisms are active. It does hurt. I'm ashamed, humbled, distraught. I'm also hopeful, and grateful, and willing. For anyone who is willing, please help by calling me out on what you see. If I've said anything devastatingly true in anything I've written, please repeat it back to me. It will be more forceful. I will not respond, but continue to contemplate and take the small steps that I can.

Hopefully what has already been revealed will be enough to reach me. I know there is more that will hit me by degrees. If it becomes too much, I'll ask you all to stop.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

I don't know how to respond or if I should respond. My instinct is that you don't want a response. What I'm saying should be pretty worthless to anyone, because I haven't eatablished any basis of reliability/humanity. I'm not answering for the sake of defense. At least I don't want to. I don't expect to win anyone over.

Actually, you didn't need to respond, my questions were pretty much rhetorical. But geeze, a pregnant wife and a two year old! Glad you seem to be "getting it" now.

 

[Joe]

If I am in France, I am going to knock on their door, shake their hands, give a present and I am on My Way.

Maybe you have been brought up this way, or maybe it is the custom where you live, but this is not an appropriate, civilized or considerate way to approach someone IMO. If you have a desire to meet with someone you have never met before, or even someone you have met before, the appropriate, civilized and and considerate approach is to make contact first (email in this case), ASK if it is ok to meet and then wait for a reply.

 

[Akoeta]

Hee Joe, Go with the flow, then you rhyme the time. ( Haven't got phone or house number, so I have to slumber) Sweet dreams lovely people...