FOTCM Chateau visit?

mrtn

Jedi Master
I'm tired now, as I've been at it for 12hrs straight. When I'm able to, I'll re-engage.
So is everybody who is trying to follow your personal drama here. And you are using the mirror in a wrong way, just like Narcissus did, and it killed him. Maybe what could help is body exercises, digging in the dirt / earthworks, gardening, discipline the mind, stop daydreaming and keep the inner dialog in check. But from my own experience I'm not sure anything makes a big difference apart from hardship and suffering, because a Puer will weasel around anything else.
 

Chu

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
My approach to this process might be like that of an addict; I'm trying to give you my "playbook", not because you need it, but because I need to know you have it. Undoubtedly, I'll reserve some trick plays. You'll see them coming. I'm counting on it. I'm asking for a STARK mirror.
Nope. What you are asking for is more attention (negative attention is still attention). I think that enough has been said. But I would like to suggest a challenge for you, if you want to try: Other than all that dramatic self-description which amounts to you also being "important/special", and other than indulging in "poetic/dramatic" journalling, how about starting with this?

Read:
Samenow - Inside the Criminal Mind (here)
Samenow - The Myth of the Out of Character Crime (here)
(Not because you are a "criminal", but looking for CONCRETE examples of how it applies to you, to your sense of entitlement, etc.)

Write notes with those concrete examples. Only then, share your observations and possible insights here. No "fluffy stuff". Just what you see, and what you can do about it.

Maybe that will make it less theoretical. If nothing else, think of your wife, your child and your future second baby. That should be a motivating factor if you want to do some good in this life, protect them, be a mature and giving dad, etc.

If you can do it and see benefits, then we can also suggest other books. Have a look here, and see if you have read in particular some or all the books on sections 2 and 3. It seems to me (just from reading you here, at least) that you spent a lot of time philosophizing and what not, but very little on actual self-knowledge and its practical application.

My 2 cents.
 

Learner

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
GqSoul, I agree with others here. Your current way on writing out your journalling here doesn't lead anywhere and thus is not only draining us here but yourself (and your family by extension) as well.

To the books suggested by Chu there is also a related thread available: Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology & The Work.

And based on your writing not only in this thread, I want to add another suggestion: Did you have the chance to check out Jordan Peterson yet? He talks a lot of the importance of taking responsibility & bringing order into one's life (and thus, mind) in a practical sense (and proved helpful to many young people especially in this way already). He has a YouTube channel with his videos here.

PS: Just noticed, that you are already aware of JP.
 
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Seppo Ilmarinen

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
I also recommend reading Samenow and looking into Peterson's work. You describe yourself as a jedi master who have self studied 30 years, not having been angry for decades, being stoic etc. Yet you were fired from your job in 2012 and still try to fix earlier mess you've made.

So problem is that it's all about you: even being seen as reprehensible (as you wrote) won't move you to action, instead your own self-centered fear does! How about start focusing less on yourself, and more on your wife, children and others - how you can be a better man for them.

 

GqSoul

Jedi
Nope. What you are asking for is more attention (negative attention is still attention). I think that enough has been said. But I would like to suggest a challenge for you, if you want to try: Other than all that dramatic self-description which amounts to you also being "important/special", and other than indulging in "poetic/dramatic" journalling, how about starting with this?

Read:
Samenow - Inside the Criminal Mind (here)
Samenow - The Myth of the Out of Character Crime (here)
(Not because you are a "criminal", but looking for CONCRETE examples of how it applies to you, to your sense of entitlement, etc.)

Write notes with those concrete examples. Only then, share your observations and possible insights here. No "fluffy stuff". Just what you see, and what you can do about it.

Maybe that will make it less theoretical. If nothing else, think of your wife, your child and your future second baby. That should be a motivating factor if you want to do some good in this life, protect them, be a mature and giving dad, etc.

If you can do it and see benefits, then we can also suggest other books. Have a look here, and see if you have read in particular some or all the books on sections 2 and 3. It seems to me (just from reading you here, at least) that you spent a lot of time philosophizing and what not, but very little on actual self-knowledge and its practical application.

My 2 cents.
Ok, I will do that.
 

GqSoul

Jedi
Haven't you just been given one? That could last you a life time IMO. The way I see it: you writing these long posts is taking away energy from our network. You could easily redirect all that energy and do some serious soul-searching, but then again stellar may be right and you are digging in your heels without being prepared to do some serious work.



I know I can be pretty paranoid, but to me this sounds as if this is your last resort, and you are trying to evoke pity. "Caustic tears", really?
Yeah, I really did have a cathartic screaming cry, and it did really hurt.

That's how I chose to describe it.
 

GqSoul

Jedi
I also recommend reading Samenow and looking into Peterson's work. You describe yourself as a jedi master who have self studied 30 years, not having been angry for decades, being stoic etc. Yet you were fired from your job in 2012 and still try to fix earlier mess you've made.

So problem is that it's all about you: even being seen as reprehensible (as you wrote) won't move you to action, instead your own self-centered fear does! How about start focusing less on yourself, and more on your wife, children and others - how you can be a better man for them.

I have not read samenow, and I will. I have and will continue to follow Dr. Peterson's work.
 

genero81

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Those last three responses were the best so far, and they didn't take hours to compose. ;-) I just noticed that your forum name Gq is usually associated with high fashion/ appearance. Interesting. This is not a place to try and bedazzle people. We're much more about trying to cut through the BS and get to the truth than being slick.
 

GqSoul

Jedi
I don't know how to use the forum, as I haven't participated enough. What I'm trying to do came out as asking for negative attention. Well, I can see that, but it also made me breakdown. It helped me access my emotions. I didn't have to post it, but I thought it would help. I was wrong. I am asking for help. What's been offered has been helpful. I haven't journaled here before, and it seems that I shouldn't have. Not in the way I did anyway.

Acknowledging all the self centered stuff, what I am doing is for my wife and children.

My self-centered fear is not about losing my soul primarily, its about the damage that I'll do on the way down. This is a liability for my loved ones. I am not a Jedi; that wasn't my point. My point is that I'm not trying to be pious, just trying to live practically. I don't mind being considered reprehensible, if it opens me up to help that can protect my wife, children and loved ones.

I'm considered a great father and dedicated husband, not a reprobate. However, I have failed them, and made mistakes that I'm trying to correct. I'm not trying to be "good" as such anymore. That seems too lofty. I've started with trying to be useful. This isn't something I started yesterday, but I do need help in being more useful, consistently, and not a liability.

Practicality:

I do work and try to support them both by bringing home an income, working around the house, taking care of their needs, etc. I've written about all the practical things that I'm doing in a response to Starshine's post.

In trying to be a better man, I'm working on doing these practical things consistently over decades, not a stretch here and there. I'm doing practical things to plug financial gaps and grow our income potential, undoing earlier mistakes. This is for my family. I'm not saying it's altruism, just that it is the aim and that they are the ones who will benefit the most.

One of my last posts here before disengaging for many years, was that I realized the need to have a period of practicum. I didn't feel like reading and posting my philosophizing was helpful. I know that things can remain theoretical for me. So I went out and tested my ideas, practiced, failed, suffered and learned. What I'm doing, how I'm doing it isn't working. I just lost about a $30k contract, and I need to make up the shortfall. I'm doing that practically: selling things, interviewing, taking on min. wage work, etc. I've had 3 interviews this week, and accepted a part time job paying $15/hr while pursuing other/better opportunities. That doesn't feed my ego, or status, but it will pay bills and feed my family.

I've worked long hours, like 16-18 a day. I once worked 30h. I've worked a 105 hr work week, getting my hands dirty, not journaling. I did that for my family. I haven't done that consistently enough to be in a stable position, so I'm looking for support to shore that up. I don't think I'm abnormal psychologically, or morally, but I do see many things that I could do better. I've been trying to do those things on my own, but haven't made large enough strides.

It wasn't my intention to begin posting again regularly, ask for a mirror, or ask for help or feedback on how I am going about things. I had no intention of baring my soul or my sins. Getting slapped the way I did, and waking up to the help that has always been available, is a blessing and a lifeline.

I've been told to take small steps and focus on practical things. I'm taking that advice:

-Find, take and keep work, whatever it is. Check

-Take care of wife and kids: I've cooked most of our meals for a long time, I maintain our vehicles, I clean and do household chores, spend quality family time, learning and having fun.

-Make amends. In the last week, I've had open hearted conversations with my wife and my in laws. I've acknowledged my failings, discussed what practical things I'm working on, and asked for help, advice and accountability.

It was suggested to post more often, engage. I've taken that advice:

-I've posted in Creative Acts, C's session, and to Starshine's thread.
-I've been told I'm not trustworthy.
-I've been shown how I'm doing it wrong.
-I'll continue to acclimate to forum dynamics, adjust and try to do the little things I can to focus on others.

I've been given a new resource in the samenow books and will use it as suggested.

There are people who wake up every day and do those things without batting an eye lash or breaking a sweat and do it for 60 years. I'm not there and I'd like to get there.

How do I ask for help appropriately?

How do I demonstrate to those helping that I'm not wasting their time?

Is it counterproductive to continue posting in these two threads I opened?
 

GqSoul

Jedi
Those last three responses were the best so far, and they didn't take hours to compose. ;-) I just noticed that your forum name Gq is usually associated with high fashion/ appearance. Interesting. This is not a place to try and bedazzle people. We're much more about trying to cut through the BS and get to the truth than being slick.
You're right. I thought the short ones were more helpful too. It was suggested that I sounded like an android, so I tried to switch it up. GQ does reference fashion, but in this case it started out as G.od Q.uesting Soul. I mention it in my initial introduction to the forum. Many years later it changed to G.rail Q.uesting Soul.
 

GqSoul

Jedi
Yeah, I really did have a cathartic screaming cry, and it did really hurt.

That's how I chose to describe it.
About pity and last resorts. Even if I wanted pity, I wouldn't (consciously) try to do it this way. I've read all of Laura's work. I've read all the C's sessions, the principal books on the recommended reading list, and keep up with SOTT.

Doing this for 10 years makes me pretty confident that there's nothing I can say here that won't be immediately SEEN for what it is.

If I'm not sincere, being banned from the forum doesn't change anything. I haven't used it much in 10 years, so that is effectively a ban.

If I were architecting some long con, I wouldn't jump in out of the blue after 3-5 years of silence and just ask for money and try to infiltrate the Chateau. It doesn't make sense.

I would try to build up trust, posting consistently for 3-5 years and avoid any evidence of being threatening. I would try to win the support of influential people, build a following, and stay off the radar until I could get close.

It wouldn't work. There's no chance that I wouldn't be discovered, and I'd probably end up like Vincent Bridges.

I don't want to hurt anyone, or jeopardize the work being done.

What's the payoff?

If I intended to use the forum as an outlet to feed my self-centeredness, with no interest in growing, I would have sought that "hit" consistently over 10 years. That wouldn't work either. The moderators would drape me up by the collar, point it out, and give me the boot when it became obvious what I was all about. It wouldn't take long.

Again, no pay off. I don't see a reason why I should be pitied. I'm a person with some very standard issues. There are people on this forum with similar issues who are growing, and helping others grow. I'll learn and do the things they are doing. I don't see why that should be impossible, or reason for pity.
 

GqSoul

Jedi
Like Mariama, I am also not impressed with your poetic, dramatic journal entry. If you want to become "a real boy" and stop being a puppet on the strings of your emotions/programs/predator's mind, get off your high poetic horses and try to define the exact thought patterns and behaviors that you identify as causing problems in your life and your relationships with others, and keep a daily journal on how well (or not) you are doing on correcting each. And this journal should be for you only. Though, in a sense, it is good that you posted the above because to me it looks that you are doing it wrong.
Right. I'll stick to short and direct in my journals as well as in my posts. I have been doing it wrong.
 

GqSoul

Jedi
I agree. Behaviours might be easier to observe and name than emotions. I find I dramatise either when I can't find a word for an emotion or have trouble identifying what it is. It was helpful for me to realise that you only need one or two words to describe an emotion rather than sentences or paragraphs. This might help

View attachment 30968:View attachment 30968
That's a good tool for me to add. I'll try to notice and name the emotions driving the behavior and keep a record of them.
 

GqSoul

Jedi
GqSoul, I agree with others here. Your current way on writing out your journalling here doesn't lead anywhere and thus is not only draining us here but yourself (and your family by extension) as well.

To the books suggested by Chu there is also a related thread available: Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology & The Work.

And based on your writing not only in this thread, I want to add another suggestion: Did you have the chance to check out Jordan Peterson yet? He talks a lot of the importance of taking responsibility & bringing order into one's life (and thus, mind) in a practical sense (and proved helpful to many young people especially in this way already). He has a YouTube channel with his videos here.

PS: Just noticed, that you are already aware of JP.
It has been draining, yes. I'll stop, and try to avoid creating other energy sinks.

I'm interested in the threads, but I want to catch up on the reading first or do it in tandem probably.
 
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