François: Gurdjieff and Mouravieff

[iloveyoghurt]

It is close as in: you are close right?

I've always read it as close, as in: you are close. Seeing it here in contrast to open, I am wondering if it is close, as in: close the door?

 

[François]

Hi,

Personally, I bypassed Gurdjieff's material, and now today, reading previous comments and references shared by forum's participants about Gurdjieff and Laura/C's transcripts excerpts, underlining the most interesting remarks on Gurdjieff, my curiosity is aroused, so that I am going to start my personal research to know more on Gurdjieff...

Thanks for this sharing...

 

[François]

I had already read that below (quoted), and that is very interesting, however I have always a question mark, simply because in my mind:

7 sems to be too much related to physical things
when
∞ is no fixed value (3 D value...) infinite and unlimited as non material things could be perceived in higher densities without limitation

- probably you could (too easily) answer that is purely 3 D thinking, but ...?

Have C's introduced a kind of notion of octave or no meaning there?

Q: (A) There are infinitely many dimensions because there are infinitely many slices. Now we come to densities. There are not infinitely many densities, there are only seven. Or, are these seven just for the general public and there are really infinitely many of them as well?

A: No.

Q: (A) Good. So, there are seven densities. Now, how come, there are seven, and not three or five, or eleven? Does it follow from some mathematics?

A: What form of mathematical theory best describes the concept of balance?

Q: (L) Algebra. (A) So, I had the idea that these seven densities were related to what Gurdjieff relates to the number of laws that apply in the various densities; the higher the density, the fewer the laws that apply, which means there is more freedom?

A: That is very close. Consciousness is the key here.

quoted from 10 July 99 C's session / posted by Laura, today at 12:47:45 PM

 

[Possibility of Being]

quoted from 10 July 99 C's session / posted by Laura, today at 12:47:45 PM

Hey François, one tip: if you put the above in the first quote tag and preceed it with "=" so that it looks like this
[ quote=blah blah ] - without the first space between "[" and "quote" - your note (source of the quote) will appear at the top of the quote box:

Q: (A) There are infinitely many dimensions because there are infinitely many slices. Now we come to densities. There are not infinitely many densities, there are only seven. Or, are these seven just for the general public and there are really infinitely many of them as well?

Another way of getting the same effect is to scroll down when you're typing your post to the other post that you are going to quote and click "Insert quote" - then remove the part(s) you don't need.

You may like it or not, so FWIW :)

End of

 

[ana]

I had already read that below (quoted), and that is very interesting, however I have always a question mark, simply because in my mind:

7 sems to be too much related to physical things

May you try to elaborate a little more your thought here?

 

[François]

Right, Thanks! Possibility of Beeing, helpful!

I chose a too much easy way and did not care on all the fine and practical possibilties which are proposed for writing a well done message, I will do it as you show me one of the tips, and will take the initiatiive to look at the other tips.

 

[François]

Ana,

7 means limitation and a sequential approach, inherent to the fact of numbering

∞ means no limitation and a continuum approach where if we talk about scale here, it is a scale of related things on which each one is only slightly different from the one before

octave: the possibilty that exists after 1D, 2D, 3D, 4D, 5D, 6D, 7D at higher density/level : 1D', 3D', 4D', 5D', 6D', 7D' and so on : 1D'', 2D'', 3D", 4D"", 5D", 6D", 7D" ... (same at the lowest level), and that is infinite too... when is fixed the primary division by 7 is the most appropriate (like a musical scale)

This is well known that 7 is the symbol of the perfection, but why not 8? (symbolically it is a ∞ stand up! [joke here])

 

[François]

I mean it exits for example the musical scale: sequence of musical notes in ascending and descending order and it was fixed that this is the scale degrees of a heptatonic (7-note) scale (the building of this could be detailed and 7 was chosen for good reasons regarding sound propagation...) but exist also the pentatonic system and musical scale where 5 is the key (used by Incas in the far past - and today also used by rock and blues (and here this is pentatonic musical scale in minor mode musically speaking)


So is it, like for music - even if comparaison is not appropriate here - that 7 is a key number for our worlds (like ∏, Planck's constant...)

 

[François]

7

Geometry
the square with above the triangle

Christian (Middle Ages)
3 Theologale virtues + 4 Cardinal virtues

Cabale (Martinez de Pasqually dixit)
number beyond the Perfection used by the Creator for Man Emancipation

Dogons (Africa)
4 (Female symbol) + 3 (Male symbol)

(Old) Egyptians
symbol of the Eternal Life

Hebrews:
symbol of the Human Totality (Male and Female both)

Sufism (Koranic Tradition)
7 Subtles Envelops (for each one a color and a Prophet)


Indians (of America)
by 4, 2 and 1 : a horizontal plane (Cardinal Points), the Immanence, a vertical plane, the Transcendence, which are crossed by a unique point, the Unity, and there this is the place for Man

 

[ana]

7 means limitation and a sequential approach, inherent to the fact of numbering

∞ means no limitation and a continuum approach where if we talk about scale here, it is a scale of related things on which each one is only slightly different from the one before

As I understand it, The seven densities have to do with the perpendicular reality it is knowledge/awareness/being levels of the Mind. There is indeed a sequential approach if you do think about it in strictly linear terms, there is not if you picture no begining and no end, just everything already existing at all levels now.

octave: the possibilty that exists after 1D, 2D, 3D, 4D, 5D, 6D, 7D at higher density/level1D', 3D', 4D', 5D', 6D', 7D' and so on : 1D'', 2D'', 3D", 4D"", 5D", 6D", 7D" ... (same at the lowest level), and that is infinite too... when is fixed the primary division by 7 is the most appropriate (like a musical scale)

What if all possibilities are already existing?, seven density is all existence in creation, all consciousness it is the highest unlimited level of awareness it is everything.
What can be added to everything?

This is well known that 7 is the symbol of the perfection, but why not 8? (symbolically it is a ∞ stand up! [joke here])

Well, maybe you can make a formal complaint but, whom would you deliver it to? :)

By the way, have you had a chance to read The Wave series?

 

[Laura]

Hopefully, one of the mods can split off all this discussion that veered away from the topic of Karla Turner.

 

[François]

Yes I read the Wave Series (French/English books/pdfs/website data), but sure not fully, focusing on what is stimulating my curiosity, so that I progress step by step increasing my knowledge, but not necessarily in a reading page after page, my reading works by key words, however I can also read the book from the first page to the last page without stopping, just because of the great interest.

Well, maybe you can make a formal complaint but, whom would you deliver it to? :)

That is my intention: not a formal complaint, but a formal ask to the Little Prince

[size=10pt]
...And the little prince broke into a lovely peal of laughter, which irritated me very much. I like my misfortunes to be taken seriously.

Then he added:

"So you, too, come from the sky! Which is your planet?"

At that moment I caught a gleam of light in the impenetrable mystery of his presence; and I demanded, abruptly:

"Do you come from another planet?"

But he did not reply. He tossed his head gently, without taking his eyes from my plane:

"It is true that on that you can't have come from very far away . . ." [/size]

 

[Palinurus]

What if all possibilities are already existing?, seven density is all existence in creation, all consciousness it is the highest unlimited level of awareness it is everything.
What can be added to everything?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always understood that to be the case. What would be actuality for one could be possibility for another and vice versa. That's what I concluded from the way in which Laura handled the corrected Tree of Life image anyway. Only in that fashion one could say that life reflects what you give to it (as per the famous Life is Religion quote). The choices one makes and the decisions one takes are the 'input' so to speak which attest to the real level of consciousness displayed in practice. This concurs with the sayings about the inner esoteric circle, as far as I understand these. In that sense we all are co-creating reality, I think. fwiw.

 

[François]

Co-creating reality makes sense for me.
But how you explain that each one, as particular entity, agrees that 7 densities is the right number of densities to be fixed in common during the eternal co-creation.
Ok, you could answer this is because we are One,
then why the One fixes to 7 the number of densities, why He does not "add" a super 8?
I mean natural numbers make really sense for describing physical realities,
but regarding non physical realities...

 

[Palinurus]

Hi François,

I think you answered your own question at least partially. From what I understand about these matters 7th density creates reality through us - not the other way around. Thus the Oneness is not 'ours' but just is. Union with the One is what we strive for, as I have understood it.
As for your quest for the 8th infinity level, I think the answer would be that the sum total of everything as it is vibrantly alive and kicking including all that is not (i.e. only in potential) would constitute just that - if one was able to look at it from the outside. But we cannot do that, so in my book the 8th level is a purely virtual thing.

There's obviously much more to this than I can fathom, but that would be my answer to your question.