General Petrov Lectures: Concept of Public Security

I found a couple of more video clips with Petrov talking. Some of the stuff is the same as in the previous lecture, but he goes into more detail about Stalin and Hitler. In these clips he doesn't seem to be in good health, this could be later than the previous video from 2004, I guess. I found it interesting how in 'The truth about Stalin' he mentions that Stalin studied with Gurdjieff.

You can find those and the "old" ones with better subtitles here: _http://zomobo.net/Udmurt_State_University

For some reason they don't always load, keep trying..that's what I did.

Direct links to the "new" clips:

'The truth about Stalin' (ca 14min)
_http://zomobo.net/play.php?id=txWKBnedHNk
ADDED: found on YouTube, too: _http://youtu.be/txWKBnedHNk

'Stalinism vs Hitlerism' (ca 12min)
_http://zomobo.net/play.php?id=vAT_llzGFps
ADDED: found on YouTube, too: _http://youtu.be/vAT_llzGFps

'Stalin's rise to power' (ca 9min)
_http://zomobo.net/play.php?id=3AMd1U9s99U
ADDED: found on YouTube, too: _http://youtu.be/3AMd1U9s99U
 
I read superficially through one file one the _http://dotu.ru/2005/05/14/20050514-the_last_gambit/
It's a sort of a fiction (the descendents of Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson investigate the 911 events) where the basic philosophy of the group is presented. The terminology is a little obscure but they seem to be hinting to multidimensional reality, cyclical history, the power of archetypes, and according to some excepts to the objective reality and networking. Maybe I projected some concepts into some of what they say. I didn't encounter anything about the Work, but they talk about humans as being run by internal machines, and external (archetypal) scripts. I finally who they really are and the devil must be in the details as usual.
 
Aragorn said:
I found a couple of more video clips with Petrov talking. Some of the stuff is the same as in the previous lecture, but he goes into more detail about Stalin and Hitler. In these clips he doesn't seem to be in good health, this could be later than the previous video from 2004, I guess. I found it interesting how in 'The truth about Stalin' he mentions that Stalin studied with Gurdjieff.

Well in fact the subtitles say that Gurdjieff was one of Stalins teachers and that Stalin was familiar with mystical occultist teachings. :huh:

So to get that strait Petrov suggests that Stalin wasn't really the guy who we think he was, basically that he was a good guy and our believes about him are wrong...

Well quite a statement!

I really would like to know how he came to those conclusions and where he got that information about Gurdjieff being one of Stalins teachers?
 
I think we cannot know for sure who Staline was exactly. In such events as the post 2nd world war, mythisation of history happens very fast. There is a documentary called "the untold history of the United states of America" that deals with what happened during the war and afterwards, and what appears is that things are not as black&white as we used to think about that period.

Edit: the first episode can be watched here: http://www.sott.net/article/255118-Oliver-Stones-Untold-History-of-the-United-States-World-War-Two
 
Pashalis said:
I really would like to know how he came to those conclusions and where he got that information about Gurdjieff being one of Stalins teachers?

There's this, from a review of Paul Beekman Taylor's biography of G:

Gurdjieff had no children with his wife or partner Julia Osipovna Ostrovska, but Taylor argues that by other women he had four sons and two daughters and Taylor names them. He also devotes some sentences to the suggestion that the young Joseph Dzhugashvili (later known as Stalin) was “his one-time school mate” and well known to the Gurdjieff family in the late 1890s. “It is difficult to extract any certainty out of the apparent contradictory accounts. We can posit the probability that Gurdjieff and Stalin were aware of each other sometime or another before the turn of the century.” It is also possible that he was personally acquainted with the young Maxim Gorky.

_http://gurdjieffbooks.wordpress.com/category/john-robert-colomo-page/john-robert-colombo-reviews-a-new-biography-of-gurdjieff-by-paul-beekman-taylor/

There's also this, a review of a Russian program on the subject: _http://gurdjieffbooks.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/43/ Various statements are made, but it's hard to judge their validity.

And there's this article, as well: _http://gurdjieffbooks.wordpress.com/2008/06/14/possible-gurdjieff-stalin-connection-with-reference-to-david-kherdian/

There has always been the suggestion that G.I. Gurdjieff and Joseph Stalin met as young students while attending the same seminary in Tiflis in the Caucasus. If so, they made strange bedfellows! The symbolism is surprising, yet stranger events have indeed occurred.

But what do historians make of the notion? In an earlier posting some months ago, I reported that Simon Sebag Montefiore, in his award-winning biography titled “Young Stalin” (2007), discusses the matter in a footnote and dismisses it as being a statement without substance.

Then I received an email from a correspondent in Paris who is familiar with the subject as well as with my ongoing interest in it. He writes as follows: “Through my usual obscure (and perhaps obscurantist) channels, I’ve recently had in my hands a photocopy of a review of Walter Driscoll’s ‘Gurdjieff: An Annotated Bibliography’ by David Kherdian in ‘Ararat Magazine,’ Spring 1991. It is a very well written review and contains some interesting opinions about Gurdjieff, his background, his works, and his aims. What might be most interesting (to you, having reviewed a Russian TV program on Gurdjieff and Stalin) is this remark.”

Background: The article is titled “The Vanishing Master” and it is about 2,000 words long. It offered Kherdian the opportunity to record some of his own feelings about Mr. G. as well as his observations about the limitations of J. Walter Driscoll’s bibliography of Gurdjieffian publications, specifically about his treatment of “Meetings with Remarkable Men.” Kherdian discusses what is included as well as what is not included. “But nothing is said about the chapter on Joseph Stalin, which was left out of the final MS, nor the reasons why it was left out (fear of the Cold War, presumably) – nor why – the fear of that having been removed by global events – that chapter has not been restored and the book reissued.”

My informant in Paris continued, “Kherdian does not give his sources for this affirmation.” All I can do is wonder about the origin of this idea: the missing chapter on Stalin the Man of Steel! Will it one day appear?

My informant concluded: “I don’t know if it’s possible to verify what Kherdian claims; if such a chapter about Stalin really existed, as far as I can see, it can only be in one of three places – the Gurdjieff archives held by the ‘SERCH’ in Paris, the estate of A.R. Orage, if such an estate exists, or the estate of his second wife Jessie Dwight, if she’s now dead (which is likely), and if such an estate, presumably managed by her children, exists. Anyway, getting anything from any of those possible sources would probably be as difficult as getting to the Most Holy Sun Absolute.”

Two details included in my informant’s account may be unfamiliar to readers of this news-blog. First detail: What is SERCH? This is the acronym for the association that constitutes the Gurdjieff groups in France; it stands for Société d’Etudes et de Recherche Pour la Connaissance de l’Homme. Second detail: Who is David Kherdian? He is a thoughtful and productive person, an Armenian-American poet, novelist, and essayist with much experience in the Work.

One of Kherdian’s books “Seeds of Light” was published by Stopinder Books and is subtitled “Poems from a Gurdjieff Community.” Another of his books is called “On a Spaceship with Beelzebub,” is subtitled “By a Grandson of Gurdjieff,” and is praised by Colin Wilson as “one of the best accounts I’ve read of actually being a member of a Gurdjieff Group.”

I first encountered Kherdian when I subscribed to the journal that he edited a decade or so ago from his farm in Wisconsin. “Stopinder: A Gurdjieff Journal for Our Time” was a handsomely designed publication that was illustrated by his talented wife Nonny Hogrogian. Its issues offered its subscribers a concentrated, yet low-key approach to human problems in rural and rustic settings. Over the decades Kherdian has published about two dozen anthologies, volumes of verse, collections of memoirs, and works of fiction. He has his own website, and although it is short on biographical details, from it I gather that his current publication is “Forgotten Bread: An Anthology of Armenian American Writers.”

Kherdian’s article “The Vanishing Master” is almost twenty years old but it is still fresh. In practical terms it offered the author an opportunity to share his views of Mr. G., whom he describes as a man formed by his Armenian background. Armenians – as well as Bulgarians, I have noted – describe themselves as being situated at the “cross-roads of the world,” the -John Thomas--pit of history and civilization. For this reason, Kheridan finds something unique about Mr. G and his message.

“He was the very first of the Eastern teachers or Masters to formulate an ancient teaching for the West – this planet’s growing point. All the others brought their religion or ideology entire – garment, beads, and all – changing the fit and form of Western spirituality into its Eastern strictures. Gurdjieff, of mixed Greek-Armenian parentage, grew up in Armenia, at the crossroads of East and West, the Armenians being the only people who belonged to neither yet were part of both. Whether he chose himself or was chosen, we do not know. We only know that he left his school, assumed a mission and devised a plan for its execution. He called it Esoteric Christianity, perhaps because it straddled East and West, as he did, being raised in the Eastern Orthodox Church, and then pushing East for his training before returning, transformed, to the West.”

Such is his view of Mr. G. This is not the place to present Kherdian’s interesting argument that there are now two generations of Gurdjieffians and that their aims are anything but congruent. Instead, let me mention in passing that in addition to Mr. G.’s standard publications, the author mentions two others that are not generally known or widely available. Their titles are “The Struggle of the Magicians” and “Narcotics and Hormones.” Both were privately printed by Stourton Press.

Added:

Here's what I could find in Taylor's books. In Gurdjieff and Orage, he writes: "His [G's] family records contain the information that [Stalin] lived in his family's house for a while." As sources he gives Luba Gurdjieff (G's niece) and James Webb. He goes into a bit more detail in Gurdjieff: A New Life:

Luba also reports that her mother told her she was born in the same house as [Stalin] and played with him in the courtyard. An association of Gurdjieff with Stalin was claimed earlier by Louis Pauwels who said that the two were fellow students at the Kars Theological Seminary. This would be unlikely if Gurdjieff was thirteen years older than Stalin who was born in 1879, but not unlikely if Gurdjieff, as official documents show, was only two years Stalin's senior. Webb accepts Pauwels' assertion and adds without citing a source: "it is certainly true that young [Stalin] ... was a boarder with the Gurdjieff family at some time ... from 1894 to 1899," and adds that he left owing the family money. Webb does not mention his source for the story of Stalin's debt, since repeated by others. Nevertheless, what Luba Gurdjieff's mother said cannot be dismissed lightly.

Though the certainty of a Stalin-Gurdjieff link is not advanced in official records, Gurdjieff might have been signaling an acquaintance with Stalin in Meetings when he mentions a certain Nijeradze amoung other friends with whom he parted in Baghdad. It is known that "Gaioz Nizharadze" (or Nijeradze) was one of several aliases Stalin adopted during his early revolutionary activities. ...

J.G. Bennett has added that Gurdjieff told him in 1948 that he had deleted a chapter on "Prince Nijeradze" from Meetings because it was too close to revealing sources in Central Asia still in contact with him. In her diary entry for 31 July 1936, Kathryn Hulme asked Gurdjieff if she and the other women could see the chapter on Nijeradze, and Gurdjieff replied that the women had not offered enough money for it ...

The poverty of extant records of Stalin's early life makes the remarks of Bennett, Pauwels and others mere conjecture. Simon Sebag Montefiore's recent Young Stalin (2007) denies an association with Stalin because Gurdjieff was not a student of the Tiflis Theological Seminary where Stalin studied from 1894 until he was expelled in 1898. On the other hand, there is an earlier essay by Miskha Chakaya in Miklos Kun's Stalin: An Unknown Portrait (2003), which quotes the author's interview with Olga Shatunovsykaya, a specialist on Stalinist affairs:" She referred to the mystical philosopher Gurdzhiev who had emigrated to the West and who has studied with Soso Dryhugashvili at the Tiflis Seminary. Gurdzhiev, she had claimed, was aware of Stalin's repulsive character and, as far as he could tell, his one-time school mate who had made it to the top of the Rusian empire would have had no difficulty in reconciling the roles of self-consciousness revolutionary and agent of the tsarist Okhrana."
 
Pashalis said:
So to get that strait Petrov suggests that Stalin wasn't really the guy who we think he was, basically that he was a good guy and our believes about him are wrong...

Well quite a statement!

Check out Dave McGowan's newsletter on Stalin. :)
 
[quote author=voyageur]
[quote author=Laura ]

I got the impression that Putin knows the same score and has tried to do things on a number of occasions, but his hands are tied because the monster just has too many heads and tentacles.
[/quote]

Have to agree.

Konstantin said:
The point is we are all living in the kingdom of trick mirrors.

Amongst others.
[/quote]
I have always got this impression too.
 
Well if there is one thing that I have learned, then it is, that almost everything that is propagated as official truth in our world is in fact almost the exact opposite......

So in that sense I wouldn't be all that suprised anymore, if what we were told about Stalin is wrong or even completely wrong.
 
Very interesting perspective, Petrova presented many fresh insights that help categorize an overview of the power structure. Thanks for sharing.
I too never considered or questioned why Hitler would forego looting the treasure troves of Switzerland, now the reason of 'armed neutrality' just seems so lame. Even though officially Hitler seems to have planned an attack (Operation Tannenbaum), this could likely be a cover story, maybe even a hint?;

From the Wiki: Operation Tannenbaum; English: Operation Fir Tree or Christmas Tree, known earlier as Operation Green

Session 31 July 1999
Q: The Greenbaum material says that there was a Jewish boy brought to America and trained as a doctor who became this infamous Dr. Greenbaum. Is that true?
A: No. "Green" is an alias, or more accurately, a pseudonym for multiple persons engaged in mind control efforts.

(for those who haven't seen the video; Switzerland is proposed to be the main european dwelling of the power elite)
 
I don't usually trust generals, so I have to admit experiencing some kind of cognitive dissonance with this Petrov guy. I still don't trust him and found a lot of opinions about him that would confirm there is a good reason to not trust him. But they are just opinions and I'm still looking for proofs and first-hand sources of claims like for example that he originally wanted to convert Russia to Islam or that they were sent to create a new religion.

Watched some videos when he talks about Paganism and he says that's not true that old, good, Pagan Russia worshiped many gods. He claims, there was only one Pagan god in several versions depending on a specific nature aspect related at the moment, and it was covered up later on and sold as polytheism. But it was actually monotheism from the very beginning, blah blah blah... And that's what people should return to. And he does mean a One God. He refers to the Bible quite a lot, too, with an addition of his specific spin so to reach as many listeners as possible, I think.

There is another guy from the same group Vladimir Zaznobin. I found only two videos with an English translator:

Challenges of globalization, a lecture given in Kuala Lumpur in 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ioli5VWMnE4

and

Vladimir Zaznobin - Presentation of COB in Brussels
http://sutr.info/content/vladimir-zaznobin-presentation-cob-brussels

For Russian speakers, here is Zaznobin talking about their ideas exhaustively:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhTV7xvEypk (part 1 of 16)

There are some really good parts, but then there are also some crazy ideas, at least they seem such to me (watched only 8 parts so far) .

I mean, Geez, during times like this, when there already are many people who know something is rotten in the world kingdom and that they have been, and still are, lied to about nearly everything, but they can't find any good, coherent alternative option which would contain practical methodology and offer solutions, it is so easy to throw a bait and mislead most of them. There is a program out there for each and every one... :(

Perhaps I'm too paranoid again, though.
 
Looking at Stalin from this new Perspective (at least it is new for me) those statements from the C's possibly shine in a new light, at least for me:


Session 26 July 1997:
Q: Why was astrology absent from the myths of ancient Greece?

A: Not absent, "Stalinized."

Q: What does that mean?

A: Soviets removed Stalin from the history books when he fell from popularity. So, Greeks, Astrology... "Stalinized"...

Q: Why?

A: Deadly secrets would be revealed.

Q: Revealed to whom?

A: You.

Q: If we could find the pieces and put them together, they would show us the drama and the connection between 3rd and 4th density?

A: You would have to use the original astrology, before cosmic changes of a planetary nature; there was no Venus, for one example, and earth was oriented differently axially speaking.
 
Well, I'm not gonna think that Stalin was a good guy without a whole lot more data. That's like thinking Hitler was a good guy because the Zionists are NOW ruining the planet. If I understand things correctly, over 40 million people died in Russia under Stalin. That's kinda telling.
 
Also we should remember that Łobaczewski identified Stalin as a charactopath, if I'm not mistaken.
 
Pashalis said:
Also we should remember that Łobaczewski identified Stalin as a charactopath, if I'm not mistaken.

Well, he worked with the data that was available back then that could had been falsified to some extent, so that it suited the new power and their agenda. Theoretically...

The McGowan's article makes a lot of sense, but I don't think that's the whole truth. What about Stalin's pacts with Hitler? What about invading Poland and other Baltic countries? What about Gulag camps, Kolyma, Katyn, etc? I don't think McGowan is right about the Memorial organization either. They managed to dig out a huge amount of documents and trace back well over a million persons persecuted, oppressed, and/or executed during the times of Stalin's regime. It's not only about the purges in the Red Army and the Party. It's about persecuting, deporting, displacing and killing civilians which McGowan doesn't mention. Estimates of the number of victims (people killed) during the Stalin's regime vary with the highest numbers reaching 40-60 millions. Even if those estimates are exaggerated, it still doesn't make him an angel.

McGowan says:

Despite the massive vilification campaign, a recent "poll of 1,600 adults by the All-Russian Public Opinion Center, released today on the eve of the 50th anniversary of his death, shows that more than half of all respondents believe Stalin's role in Russian history was positive, while only a third disagreed."

It stands to reason that that is because a lot of Russian people are old enough to know that their own memories, or their parents' or grandparents' memories, don't jibe with the official reality.

There is another explanation to it, too. In many post-communist countries a lot of people began longing to the old times and old regime after some years. Despite censorship, repressions and other traits of dictatorship, their lives had been, in general, much easier in a sense back then. Everyone had a job, social security, knew the rules and how to go around them and get what they needed. That's a simplified version but the same time that's the very version that stays in the memory of those who didn't suffer persecutions directly. I know that pattern first hand. We tend to remember good things and easy forget the bad ones. In this light, the poll outcomes are not surprising at all, but the same time they not necessarily reveal any truth about Stalin.

So how about Petrov playing on those sentiments? Is it possible that what we have here is just another race for power, another promises, another "hope" masters?

Just saying...
 
Possibility of Being said:
There is another explanation to it, too. In many post-communist countries a lot of people began longing to the old times and old regime after some years. Despite censorship, repressions and other traits of dictatorship, their lives had been, in general, much easier in a sense back then. Everyone had a job, social security, knew the rules and how to go around them and get what they needed. That's a simplified version but the same time that's the very version that stays in the memory of those who didn't suffer persecutions directly. I know that pattern first hand. We tend to remember good things and easy forget the bad ones. In this light, the poll outcomes are not surprising at all, but the same time they not necessarily reveal any truth about Stalin.

Oh yeah, almost every single Russian living abroad that I met was thinking among these lines, including my very mother. All they could see was the chaos that their families back home were living in, something they didn't saw happening under the Soviet Union.

The human mind is one twistable and malleable thing which serves the propaganda all too well. Heck, even my ancestors suffered Stalin persecutions directly and they, for the most part, ended up with Stockholm Syndrome.

Subconscious selection and substitution of data...
 
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