Good Website for Free Books

[Tigersoap]

First of all, we're all STS in nature, so everything we do is "STS behaviour", since we're not capable of true "STO behaviour". However, let's assume you meant to say that, based on the conclusions of the article/study you linked above, that you believe some file-sharing leans more towards STO behaviour than STS behaviour. So, just to be clear, when I use the term "STO" hereafter, I will be meaning "STO-leaning".

I know this, of course.
My sentence was awkwardly formulated but I never meant it was STO (leaning).
I think that filesharing is more complicated than just a good/bad topic, even though it is still STS because everything is STS ( Especially as it is consumerism-related) and yet from there can arise great things.
My point was not to debate STS/STO but to show the many shades of grey on the topic of "copyrights".

Let's assume the 2002 study's conclusion is accurate and still relevant to today's music market. It is not the END RESULT of an individual's actions that determines whether their behaviour is STO, it is their INTENT and MOTIVATION. One could provide many examples of purely selfish behaviour that inadvertently results in both "positive" and "negative" consequences. In the end, those who take copyrighted material free of charge from the internet without the permission of the artist are doing so primarily to benefit themselves and their fellow "file-sharers", not in order to benefit the artist. So if a downloader tries to justify his behaviour by deeming it "STO behaviour", he is deluding and lying to himself.

So you never had a tape made by a friend for you ? or a copy of a movie on a vhs that you wanted to see, with friends invited over ? Or a book that someone wanted you to read ?
In your logic, it is a theft as well.
You did not ask the artist (writer, actors, filmakers...) for it or retribute the artist fairly either, then.
To categorize all file sharers in this way is just incorrect.

We are in a STS world and it function like it does, by "feeding" off others, and yet amongst all that feeding, true gems of creativity have emerged, I can see how the sampling has created hip-hop, how the collages made out of borrowed pictures created new forms of expressions, how by being inspired (sometimes more than inspired) by a story or a music someone else created something unexpected.

The digital age made everything much easier to share, then I think it's a good think to ask ourselves, why ?

Nothing to do with being STO, although there must be times where doing this is actually STO (leaning of course.)
Please refer to my earlier posts.

I also have to question the argument that since a "money-poor" college kid would never be able to afford to buy from a record store the music he downloads, and that his actions therefore do not affect CD sales, that it is any less a theft of the property of another. The same argument could be made about a "money-poor" college kid who shoplifts CDs from a record store.

Refer above.

You come up with exactly the same arguments that the media industry love to repeat ad nauseam to link file sharers with petty thieves, without taking into account the many other ways in which they have made money (digital ringtones, dvds, taxes and so on...) out of the digital era.

I will say it again, one download does not equal one sale because the person would not have bought it in the first place ! (then, of course, many possibilities are open)

 

[Beau]

I will say it again, one download does not equal one sale because the person would not have bought it in the first place ! (then, of course, many possibilities are open)

Indeed. This is on the heels of a report that, not only is the movie The Dark Knight the highest grossing film this year, but also apparently, the most downloaded movie as well:

TorrentFreak reports that The Dark Knight is officially the most pirated movie of 2008. Maybe the Joker's lectures about law-breaking and those burning piles of money taught audiences a lesson? Apparently, the flick got a million downloads in under seven days, and those are on top of the cam and DVD-screener versions that were swapped online earlier this year. Seeing as the movie has already earned over a billion dollars, I think it's safe to say that the pirates aren't sinking that ship any time soon.

Their is also a movement to get a class action lawsuit going against the RIAA because of their racketeering and extortion attempts on file sharers. Basically what the recording (and movie) industry folks are doing is sending out threatening letters saying if the person does not pony up a certain amount of cash, they will be sued. Pretty low brow stuff, considering that most people aren't aware that that practice is not legal, so they consider the costs of legal fees and end up paying whatever the RIAA asks. Yeah, I'd say that counts as extortion.

We have to remember that this isn't at all about lost income either, because plenty of research have been done that proves the downward slide in movie and music sales has much less to do with file sharing and a lot more to do with these industry folks alienating their customer base by going after file sharers, not to mention the fact that the mainstream music and movies just aren't that good anymore, plus people would rather watch movies at home nowadays instead of going to a theater to pay exorbitant prices and have annoying cell phones all around you. Instead of focusing on improving quality and looking in the mirror, the industry blames its customers for its own problems. They are a short-sighted bunch IMO.

 

[PepperFritz]

So you never had a tape made by a friend for you? or a copy of a movie on a vhs that you wanted to see, with friends invited over? Or a book that someone wanted you to read?

Yep, I do occasionally infringe music and movie copyrights. (The reference to book lending between individuals is not relevant to the discussion, since it is not a copyright infringement under the law.)

In your logic, it is a theft as well.

Yep, it is. I just don't lie to myself and say it's not REALLY theft, and that I'm in fact doing something GOOD and somehow benefiting the creators and owners of that copyright. Or that what I'm doing is really some kind of high-minded PROTEST against big business. I do it because I want to and because I can get away with it. Same as everyone else.

I acknowledge that there are very good arguments in support of changing music and movie copyright laws in the area of internet downloading in a way that recognizes that enforcement within that context is almost impossible; and introducing revised legislation that both protects the financial interest of the creators/owners of that copyright and does not alienate the customer/user. But its absurd to argue (as some here have) that copyright in creative works should just be thrown out as no longer "necessary" in the digital age.

Also, as yet, no one has presented a persuasive argument as to why sites like Scribd (the original subject of this thread) should be allowed to provide free downloads of books in which the authors still retain copyright, without the author's permission. And why I should not consider anyone who knowingly takes advantage of such downloads to be participating in an act of theft that is detrimental to the creator.

 

[rrraven]

And the universe will provide
i started reading ISOTM on scribd but stoped when the copyright thing was brought up
yesterday i walked into a secondhand bookshop in a town i was visiting and YEAH , the shop assistant looked it up in her pc and they had one copy for just 15 dollars.
no gurdjeff but ,never mind, i searched the other secondhand shops too (there where several in a row in that street) and found a curious first edition SF book called THE CASSIOPEIA AFFAIR , i had to have that one :)
it was written in 68 and is set in the early 70s...where a Hungarian born physicist after long searching finds a message/signal from Cassiopeia incorporated in the square of prime numbers in pulsed radio signals and then has a heart attack/is murdered and discredited for not fitting into the war-mongering plans of the officials....
i also scored Konrad Lorenz 'King Solomon's Ring' and John C. Lilly 'The Dyadic Cyclone'
RRR

 

[Pierre]

i searched the other secondhand shops too (there where several in a row in that street) and found a curious first edition SF book called THE CASSIOPEIA AFFAIR , i had to have that one :)
it was written in 68 and is set in the early 70s...where a Hungarian born physicist after long searching finds a message/signal from Cassiopeia incorporated in the square of prime numbers in pulsed radio signals and then has a heart attack/is murdered and discredited for not fitting into the war-mongering plans of the officials...

It sounds like an interesting catch. I had never heard of such a book previously.

If possible, please keep us informed of the content of this book once you've read it.

 

[Tigersoap]

Here is a short resume of the book from Times magazine 1968 (_http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,844428-2,00.html).

THE CASSIOPEIA AFFAIR by Chloe Zerwick & Harrison Brown. 235 pages. Doubleday. $4.50.

Russia and China are exchanging ultimatums. The world is on the brink of a nuclear Armageddon. Then Scientist Maximilian Gaby's radio telescope picks up a message from outer space. It reveals that a highly intelligent race exists on an earthlike planet circling Cassiopeia 3579, a star some 30 light-years away. What's more, the folks up yonder are eager to communicate.

Electrified by Gaby's disclosure, the great powers on earth forget old antagonisms and focus their attention on the distant civilization, hoping to learn from it the secrets of peace and abundance. Alas, the path toward Cassiopeia—and utopia—is made virtually impassable by man's follies. Oppenheimer-like and Teller-like scientists have a falling-out, Advise and Consent politicians undermine each other, the authenticity of the Cassiopeia message is questioned, and the powers again turn toward holocaust. The disillusioned Gaby dies, unaware that he will eventually be vindicated by none other than the Chinese Communists.

What makes this novel interesting is that Co-Author Brown is a geochemist and one of the nation's most articulate and socially conscious scientists. Brown and his collaborator, Chloe Zerwick, a freelance writer, nearly obscure their message in a fog of literary and character clichés (notably missing from Brown's nonfiction writing). Still, their purpose is plain: they are not questioning the existence of extraterrestrial beings but asking if there is, after all, intelligent life on earth.

and Mr Brown short bio :

American geochemist known for his role in isolating plutonium for its use in the first atomic bombs and for his studies regarding meteorites and the Earth’s origin.

And more info here : _http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=4548&page=40

 

[MrGullible]

It seems that several of you are pretty informed regarding copyright law. I got the Gnosis 1 book from Scribd yesterday and ordered the trilogy from Amazon. I haven't used scribd before that I can recall and it just came up in the Google search. However, I did wonder if there were any copyright issues with it being on Scribd.

That brings to mind a question. How does a copyright expire? In other words, if I was downloading a book from scribd or the like, is there an easy way to know whether I am in violation or not?

This is sort of a wierd occurrence because I went to the cassiopaea.org FAQ page this morning and saw that it was copyrighted through 2004 (this at the bottom of the page). That doesn't mean it expired then, correct?

 

[PepperFritz]

That brings to mind a question. How does a copyright expire? In other words, if I was downloading a book from scribd or the like, is there an easy way to know whether I am in violation or not?

In the case of published works, the author (or the author's estate) maintains copyright in his/her work for 100 years after the author's death (in Europe) and for 50 years after the author's death (in North America), after which the work enters the public domain. So, in order to know whether a book is still subject to copyright, or in the public domain, you need to know the country in which the work was first published, and the year of the author's death.

In the case of Boris Mouravieff, his works were initially published in Europe, and he died in 1966. Therefore, his works are subject to copyright until 2066. So Scribd is in violation of the Mouravieff estate's copyright by offering his book free of charge on their site without the estate's permission. The copy you purchased from Amazon is free of copyright issues, because they only carry books that are legally published according to copyright law. That means that for each copy sold by them, a royalty is duly paid to Mouravieff's estate by the publisher.

Hope that clarifies things a little.

 

[MrGullible]

Thanks, Pepperfritz. That actually clarifies things alot and makes it pretty clear. I'm sure there can be special cases but those general guidelines are enough for me.

 

[MrGullible]

Pepperfritz, if I you would entertain another related question:

I have noticed that many people post some of the text of other books and web sites on here in the content of messages. What are the rules for doing that without infringing copyrights?

Or, phrased another way, what should I be aware of before posting something copied out of a book or from another web site?

 

[PepperFritz]

I have noticed that many people post some of the text of other books and web sites on here in the content of messages. What are the rules for doing that without infringing copyrights?

Re quoting and/or excerpting from published, copyrighted books: When used for the purpose of public discussion and/or review (and not in any "for profit" way), fairly extensive excerpts are allowed under what is known as "Fair Use" in the U.S. and "Fair Dealing" in Commonwealth countries and most of Europe. How much of a given book may be used in this way is open to interpretation, depending on the nature of the work. Generally speaking, you're on dangerous ground if you excerpt so much of a given work that it could be seen as interfering with the market for the book (e.g. if someone, in reviewing a book, say, were to excerpt so much of it that there would not be much need for someone to buy a copy of the book itself).

Re posting "text of web sites": The text of online articles, books, blogs, essays, etc. would also be subject to "fair use/dealing" as outlined above.

Or, phrased another way, what should I be aware of before posting something copied out of a book or from another web site?

It's very unlikely that you would post enough of someone else's work in this forum to exceed the boundaries of "fair use" and "fair dealing". So I wouldn't worry about it.

:)

 

[MrGullible]

Thanks much. You've been a great help.

 

[syldan]

Free books, pdf format, many subjects... On Zone-Gnostik.org

I would like to share with you the birth of a project that is fast becoming an Arch of Human Knowledge on the Internet. At Zone-Gnostik.org, you will find thousands of books articles on subjects such as Spirituality, ufology, Gnôsis, Magic(k), and much much more. Files are in French and English. Please do not let the french overtones of site deter you from searching in the ARCANES section, where you can access enough inspirational material to keep you alive on a desert island.

Our aim is to build a library that we can download on a laptop, so that even without Internet we can keep learning during the coming turbulence...

 

[Jacques]

Re: Free books, pdf format, many subjects... On Zone-Gnostik.org

I would like to share with you the birth of a project that is fast becoming an Arch of Human Knowledge on the Internet. At Zone-Gnostik.org, you will find thousands of books articles on subjects such as Spirituality, ufology, Gnôsis, Magic(k), and much much more. Files are in French and English. Please do not let the french overtones of site deter you from searching in the ARCANES section, where you can access enough inspirational material to keep you alive on a desert island.

Our aim is to build a library that we can download on a laptop, so that even without Internet we can keep learning during the coming turbulence...

I moved your topic to this thread.

Moreover as Anart said to Dhane at the beginning of this thread:

...do you know for certain that this website does not violate copyright on any of these books? If the copyrights are violated, we do not allow the link to be posted on the forum. It's really not fair to authors to just take their work without some sort of energetic or monetary compensation.

And please read all the thread.

 

[anart]

It's also relevant to note that, prior to today, this was 'spin49's last post: (spin49 was previously known as guimondaniel ) http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=9543.msg69164#msg69164

Thank you for that, Laura!
That really helps!(hurts!)
I guess anybody who dosn't instantly see the absolute truth in this judgement call, has nothing to contribute?

Do camel swallowers, instantly recognize other camel swallowers, I would think so!!!
There is an air of superiority in all of this, that does not suit the quality people involved... Or that has grown out of proportion somehwere down the line?
dg
And there is no need to BAN me, I will certainly refrain from here on in... What would be the point of this exercise, if the only posts accepted are those from people who simply kneel in front of the leader?
When in Amerika act like the 'mercans, : Yes mam, I'M you YES MAN!!!
Thankx but no thanks...

So - apparently, the 'thanks but no thanks' was temporary?