Gurdjieff: The Soul, The First Initiation and Christianity

biggreenpea

The Force is Strong With This One
Re: Gurdjieff and the question of the soul.

hello again...

I just looked at the Amazon link to Meetings WIth Remarkable Men, and found this in the 3rd or so negative comment...

It might be good to provide a parody so you'll get a feel of what you're buying:

from MEETINGS WITH REMARKABLE MARKS -

...There I was in the steppes of Asia, with hundreds of followers of my ideas dependent upon me for sustenance and only two rubles in my tattered pocket. However, possessing in my humble opinion both an unusual resourcefulness and a spirit determined to turn even this affair to advantage, I collected six thousand pounds of dung and, painting and scenting it with unguents that just happened to be nearby, I summoned my admittedly seasoned arts of persuasion* and wiseacring and announced to all passersby the sale of MAGICAL BEAUTY POULTICES which when applied daily to the face entirely suspended the aging process, enhanced one's sensuality, and contributed toward the formation of a permanent "I." Having not the slightest compunction at so cleverly turning a profit from the mental laziness of my fellow human beings, who nevertheless sensed unconsciously the importance of my mission for mankind, I expanded my own "I" by making ten million in three hours, thereby enabling us to continue our search for truth (and our escape from those we'd bilked via the sacred movement exit, stage left) with a tidy sum left over.

But everything I said about finding the Sarmoun Brotherhood really happened.

Trust me.

* This is not the time to describe such arts of persuasion; they will be dealt with in detail in my forthcoming book The Place of Deception in the Harmonious Development of Man, Volume XVIII in my Ends Justify The Means Series.
It seems again, this parody quote may be what Alwyn L'hoir cited as in the book.
 

obyvatel

The Living Force
Re: Gurdjieff and the question of the soul.

biggreenpea said:
oh goodness...second attempt...

from page 2, Alwyn L'hoir

...There I was in the steppes of Asia, with hundreds of followers of my ideas dependent upon me for sustenance and only two rubles in my tattered pocket. However, possessing in my humble opinion both an unusual resourcefulness and a spirit determined to turn even this affair to advantage, I collected six thousand pounds of dung and, painting and scenting it with unguents that just happened to be nearby, I summoned my admittedly seasoned arts of persuasion* and wiseacring and announced to all passersby the sale of MAGICAL BEAUTY POULTICES which when applied daily to the face entirely suspended the aging process, enhanced one's sensuality, and contributed toward the formation of a permanent "I." Having not the slightest compunction at so cleverly turning a profit from the mental laziness of my fellow human beings, who nevertheless sensed unconsciously the importance of my mission for mankind, I expanded my own "I" by making ten million in three hours, thereby enabling us to continue our search for truth (and our escape from those we'd bilked via the sacred movement exit, stage left) with a tidy sum left over.
I may be falling for a fast one, but I cannot find this in Meetings With.... I have been googling and found reference to the symbolism of dung and the suggestion of Gurdjieff being a trickster and all, but have only found the link below, to a list of philosophers names with apparently humorous paraphrase for their thought...

http://www.terrapsych.com/intellectuals.html

The description for Gurdjieff is the exact paragraph suggested by Alwyn, so am wondering if Alwyn pulled the paragraph from terrapsych. i do recall Gurdjieff with fake canaries and the repair shop but magical poultice in MWRM?

I also get the gist this fella, Alwyn, seemed a type of know it all. Making claims bigger than actuality as far as personal expertise goes or actual spiritual development, but am curious if anyone knows the actual place in the book, page perhaps (does edition matter?) where the magical poultice story is. I have looked through the forum search, with similar results...nada.
I could not find any references to the "magical poultice story" in "Meetings With Remarkable Men" either. So is this story just made up existing only on the terrapsych page? Good catch biggreenpea.
 

celtic

Jedi Master
Re: Gurdjieff and the question of the soul.

Gurdjieffs teachings on the question if human beings have a soul, and that this is something that can only be obtained through work on the self and that humans are not born with a soul.I think gurdjieff is saying the exact samething the cassiopaeans and laura are saying,
Your soul is not complete unless you do soul searching.
 

denekin

Jedi
FOTCM Member
Who knows why, but spending today reading this years old thread has made some basic concepts that I have read over and over suddenly much clearer to me.
Thanks to all who participated.
 

Gloria54

Padawan Learner
denekin said:
Who knows why, but spending today reading this years old thread has made some basic concepts that I have read over and over suddenly much clearer to me.
Thanks to all who participated.

I just spent most of today reading this thread and all the links contained..very much appreciated. It has clarified a lot for me as well as given me a lot to ponder...just wanted to express my gratitude for this forum
 

denekin

Jedi
FOTCM Member
I have always assumed that the role of a real Teacher is NOT to point blank teach the Truth, but to say to this seeker that which is most relevant to their personal development. Can that mean ( and I'm presupposing that this is true) telling the seeker something that is not true because moving into that Untruth is the fastest way to move them into Truth. The way this works is that by encouraging the seeker on a trajectory that Not True, they will discover their own error faster than simply dumping a truth on them?
 
Re: Gurdjieff and the question of the soul.

Laura said:
Another student of J. G. Bennett was Pierre Elliot, formerly the Director of Studies of (the Gurdjieffian training center called) the Claymont Society in West Virginia. In the late 1970's, Suleyman Hayati Loras Dede, an important Mevlevi shaykh from Konya, Turkey, visited Claymont. He was so impressed by Pierre Elliot that he initiated him to be a Mevlevi shaykh. Suleyman Dede must have seen demonstrations of Gurdjieff's movements exercises there and probably assumed that it was a kind of "dervish training." In October 1979, Suleyman Dede wrote a letter to Mr. Elliot stating, "äbecause at the same time my brother Sheikh Pierre Elliot is bringing the way of Mevlana together with the path of Mr. Gurdjieff and Mr. Bennett. Allah wishes that these paths should always be together, and I hope that it will be so."19
A Talk by Pierre Elliot on the SOUL, from Claymont 1981,


https://youtu.be/AoapkNsRSLM
 
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