Hating My Mother and Merry Christmas - Two of my *I*s

[Buddy]

Re: What does everyone get up to for Christmas?

I find it rather disconcerting that you are writing this "wishful thinking" post in view of your problems with hating your narcissistic mother.

I fail to see how this post is in the view of my problems...

I can't speak for Laura, but I'd explain my take like this: for a person ruled by sentimentality, everyone is narcissistic - especially one's parents and especially one's mother. The other side of that coin is all about wishfulness as you are expressing it due simply to this fake holiday. IOW, the two threads have a parity relationship; two sides of the same coin, fantasy currency, paying one's way through life with monopoly money; that kind of thing, see?

For me, I see nothing wrong when I dream about how good life could be in ideal conditions, but my dreams are not reality and I have to learn to deal competently with reality as it is. Refer to your second and third siggy lines for some food for contemplation if you wish.

With respect to your opening statement on this topic, my personal preference would be to let the holiday pass without acknowledgement if I could. If I can't do 'togetherness' with family and friends at other times during the year, what explains how I can all-of-a-sudden manage it during christmas holidays?

If the above doesn't clarify, then ask yourself how you can post a topic (this one) that suggests you are completely unaware of the source and nature of your feelings, yet when you post about your mother you seem so sure.

My 2 cents, FWIW.

 

[lilyalic]

Re: What does everyone get up to for Christmas?

I can't speak for Laura, but I'd explain my take like this: for a person ruled by sentimentality, everyone is narcissistic - especially one's parents and especially one's mother. The other side of that coin is all about wishfulness as you are expressing it due simply to this fake holiday. IOW, the two threads have a parity relationship; two sides of the same coin, fantasy currency, paying one's way through life with monopoly money; that kind of thing, see?

For me, I see nothing wrong when I dream about how good life could be in ideal conditions, but my dreams are not reality and I have to learn to deal competently with reality as it is. Refer to your second and third siggy lines for some food for contemplation if you wish.

With respect to your opening statement on this topic, my personal preference would be to let the holiday pass without acknowledgement if I could. If I can't do 'togetherness' with family and friends at other times during the year, what explains how I can all-of-a-sudden manage it during christmas holidays?

If the above doesn't clarify, then ask yourself how you can post a topic (this one) that suggests you are completely unaware of the source and nature of your feelings, yet when you post about your mother you seem so sure.

My 2 cents, FWIW.

Ok, I understand. I suppose this is a 'wash on reality' for me, holding sentimentiality in the Christmas Holiday

I suppose I do have a kind of "two sides of the coin" personality, Christmas is just a time for me to relax and accept the "togetherness".
and I have a feeling I'll be losing this 'rose-tinted' glasses view the more I get into The Work.

I believe I solely posted about Christmas, for us to acknowledge our various ways of celebrating this time of year, whether under false consciousness or not, people seem to enjoy and relish Christmas.

 

[lilyalic]

Re: What does everyone get up to for Christmas?

I would much prefer to spend Christmas with like-minded people! - But as for now, tradition will stick with my Family.

 

[Laura]

Re: What does everyone get up to for Christmas?

I would much prefer to spend Christmas with like-minded people! - But as for now, tradition will stick with my Family.

In short, all the energy you extracted from others here to try to help you deal with what is now a "non-problem" was just "food" for your own narcissism?

 

[lilyalic]

Re: What does everyone get up to for Christmas?

In short, all the energy you extracted from others here to try to help you deal with what is now a "non-problem" was just "food" for your own narcissism?

It is not a "non-problem" much rather a progression.

I really fail to see how the post about my Mother was to extract energy from others feeding my own narcissistic traits, that wasn't my intention, or unconscious intention at all! I just needed some immediate feed back before letting my thoughts spiral into an emotional collapse - I struggled to see any limelight on it, and needing some intellectual. 'conscious' and factual information as at times my emotional centre becomes far too dominant.

My 'family' doesn't just consist of my Mum, if anything my excitement in the 'togetherness' with my family is mainly my Grandparents.

As for my comment about wanting to spend time with 'like minded' people - the celebration of this holiday can only be with my Family as I haven't got many 'like minded' people around me to do so with.

 

[Turgon]

Re: What does everyone get up to for Christmas?

In short, all the energy you extracted from others here to try to help you deal with what is now a "non-problem" was just "food" for your own narcissism?

It is not a "non-problem" much rather a progression.

I really fail to see how the post about my Mother was to extract energy from others feeding my own narcissistic traits, that wasn't my intention, or unconscious intention at all! I just needed some immediate feed back before letting my thoughts spiral into an emotional collapse - I struggled to see any limelight on it, and needing some intellectual. 'conscious' and factual information as at times my emotional centre becomes far too dominant.

Ultimately, a number of members gave you feedback and recommended that you seek therapy as your first and best course of action but you pretty much decided not to and "work" on yourself more instead.

Yeah, you're right. In all honesty I don't think I'll ever want to see a therapist however there's a possibility that my opinion about that will change, with more work on myself.
Thank you for your suggestions, I will consider the additional help.

If this issue with your mom was as immediate as you made it out to be, why would you negate the advice given? It wasn't just one person that recommended therapy but multiple people! A lot of energy was expended by members in offering to help you work through this situation and at the end of it all you didn't really like the answer to your issues with your mom, which was therapy. Otherwise, you were given a lot of attention (energy) in that thread but weren't crazy about the answer so pretty much deferred it for later. Only you know if you are seriously considering the idea but judging from that answer I would say unlikely.

 

[Laura]

Re: What does everyone get up to for Christmas?

Well, whether you realize it or not, quite a few people put energy into not just RESPONDING to you in writing, but worrying about the situation and getting stressed over it.

But, you just wanted some feedback, you say. I think you could have gotten many ideas about what to do simply by reading articles and threads here on the forum without directly engaging and developing a feedback loop. Maybe you don't realize that is what you did. That, in itself, is rather narcissistic.

One thing that narcissists do frequently is get everybody all worked up about something and then, turn on a dime and say "oh, that strawberry shortcake looks just yummy! I think I'll have some of that! Oh, what were you saying? You are worried about me! Nothing to worry about! I was just sucking your energy and I'm all better now!"

 

[Oxajil]

Fwiw, lilyalic,

I had the same impression.

It is not a "non-problem" much rather a progression.

I really fail to see how the post about my Mother was to extract energy from others feeding my own narcissistic traits, that wasn't my intention, or unconscious intention at all! I just needed some immediate feed back before letting my thoughts spiral into an emotional collapse - I struggled to see any limelight on it, and needing some intellectual. 'conscious' and factual information as at times my emotional centre becomes far too dominant.

A couple of things lilyalic,

1) You made a thread about a month ago about your mother and people reached out to you and advised you to read the recommended books on narcissism.
2) A month later you make another thread about your mother, saying you've read the books on this topic. I don't know if you did, but if true, have you viscerally understood what was written? The reason I didn't write in your thread, was because I felt like that some questions you asked, could've been answered by reading the books. It was only when I checked, that I realized you were already advised to read them. Maybe it helps if you could state which books you have read, besides Myth of Sanity and Trapped in the Mirror? It might help us with knowing your basic knowledge in this area. The benefit of getting knowledge ourselves, is that we also put effort into understanding our own situation. If we would not, or only limitedly do so, then we would only seek information from others, which in a way would be a waste of energy on the part of the other that could be unnecessary.
3) You mention your mom having been abusive to you, and still is manipulative in the ways you described.
4) Now you make a thread about Christmas and you mention celebrating it with your family. Which would include your mother. No notion of: I'm not really looking forward to it, or any notion of thinking of any strategies of how to avoid your mother, no strategies of how to perhaps spend one day of Christmas when only your grandparents would be present, or no notion of any discussion of how to spend Christmas this time differently, without mother being present.
5) All of the above, makes me think: Just how serious are you about your situation with your mother and wanting to make concrete steps into self-healing? It's not an easy thing to do, and it takes time, but most importantly, one would have to need some will to want to change things.

So yea, you left me confused somewhat. But then again, most people start Doing things when they are truly truly tired enough of their current situation.

 

[lilyalic]

OK - so now this is being made an example of, and I completely understand why.

I made a thread about Christmas, which YES included my mother (I didn't want to include the struggles with my Mother in that post because I wanted it to be more about EVERYONE than my struggles with my Mum, and I felt I'd took enough advice and 'energy' from others.) .. and now as I've just read back on this I realise that it was a way of making seems OK for me too - I don't like to bring things up very often because I'd rather be STO than STS.

Reluctantly being honest here, I do COMPLETELY ignore the problems I have and not take them as seriously as I should do occasionally, and although others 'pick up on programmes' etc, picking up on my own programmes, traits, emotions, feelings... is proving extremely difficult at this current time, as depicting the knowledge I've learnt and continuously learning from my own conscious self (or in other words relating it to others and myself) is difficult. I think I might need to slow down on the knowledge intake, and the 'trying to obtain all forms of consciousness'

I feel I have to explain how I think, and what I believe in this post.

I've always thought that my "way of thinking" was strange when I consciously realised (a few years back) that every thought process had a few contradictions, and when I came to a conclusion or an answer, it would be because of the current situation and the way it related in terms of appropriateness.

My Father once pressed on at me asking me how I thought and asked me 'draw out how I think' I said I couldn't because it entirely depends what, and how I was thinking, and who. I also explained that it depends WHEN.

I'm so reluctant to pick at myself!

 

[lilyalic]

If this issue with your mom was as immediate as you made it out to be, why would you negate the advice given? It wasn't just one person that recommended therapy but multiple people! A lot of energy was expended by members in offering to help you work through this situation and at the end of it all you didn't really like the answer to your issues with your mom, which was therapy. Otherwise, you were given a lot of attention (energy) in that thread but weren't crazy about the answer so pretty much deferred it for later. Only you know if you are seriously considering the idea but judging from that answer I would say unlikely.

I have such little faith in talking to therapists, I'm not sure if it's a part of myself, a dissociated ego state, a spirit attachment or what!
I just simply can't imagine sitting there and talking ALL ABOUT ME and my problems, without wondering what THEY'RE thinking

The serious thought of seeing a therapist really just makes me cry

 

[Keit]

I have such little faith in talking to therapists, I'm not sure if it's a part of myself, a dissociated ego state, a spirit attachment or what!
I just simply can't imagine sitting there and talking ALL ABOUT ME and my problems, without wondering what THEY'RE thinking

The serious thought of seeing a therapist really just makes me cry

Well, think about it this way. As long as you deny (to others or yourself) that you do have a need to talk all about you and your problems, and need to get attention (and that's quite normal for people who grew up in narcissistic families), you'll try to receive the energy that you crave in a manipulative and covert way. In this sense, talking to a therapist would be a responsible and honest thing to do.

 

[Z...]

I have such little faith in talking to therapists, I'm not sure if it's a part of myself, a dissociated ego state, a spirit attachment or what!
I just simply can't imagine sitting there and talking ALL ABOUT ME and my problems, without wondering what THEY'RE thinking

The serious thought of seeing a therapist really just makes me cry

Hi lilyalic, what you described is a common knee jerk reaction most people have when faced with possibility of therapy. Sometimes we are unable to see certain parts of ourselves and good therapist is indispensable to guide us to certain realizations. This IS about you and your problems, qualified person will not be judging you, their primary focus will be to help you to see better and that is all that matters.

 

[Buddy]

If this issue with your mom was as immediate as you made it out to be, why would you negate the advice given? It wasn't just one person that recommended therapy but multiple people! A lot of energy was expended by members in offering to help you work through this situation and at the end of it all you didn't really like the answer to your issues with your mom, which was therapy. Otherwise, you were given a lot of attention (energy) in that thread but weren't crazy about the answer so pretty much deferred it for later. Only you know if you are seriously considering the idea but judging from that answer I would say unlikely.

I have such little faith in talking to therapists, I'm not sure if it's a part of myself, a dissociated ego state, a spirit attachment or what!

Have you actually experienced talking to a professional therapist who is familiar with the types of problems you have talked about?

I just simply can't imagine sitting there and talking ALL ABOUT ME and my problems, without wondering what THEY'RE thinking...

Why should you care what 'they're' thinking? Seems to me it's a terrified ego that wants to control everything.

The serious thought of seeing a therapist really just makes me cry

Well, the serious act of talking to a parent heart to heart, even if the talk relates to setting boundaries, WILL make you cry if you are genuinely trying to be honest with them during a difficult emotional situation. That's because it is usually very difficult to have those kinds of conversations with parents. After all, when a parent looks at us, they will usually see us just as naked as when we were first born, so in order to earn their respect, in most cases we really have to know what it is we are talking about to even initiate such a conversation.

A good therapist can be objectively impersonal to some extent and could help provide that info. How bad does the idea of seeing a therapist look now?

 

[Laura]

OK - so now this is being made an example of, and I completely understand why.

No, it's not "being made an example of"... it is basically doing what this forum does: telling you how other people see you/perceive you/experience you, at least in the virtual sense. I'm sure it's not how you see yourself; it usually never is.

I made a thread about Christmas, which YES included my mother (I didn't want to include the struggles with my Mother in that post because I wanted it to be more about EVERYONE than my struggles with my Mum, and I felt I'd took enough advice and 'energy' from others.) .. and now as I've just read back on this I realise that it was a way of making seems OK for me too - I don't like to bring things up very often because I'd rather be STO than STS.

As if you have any choice as to whether you are STO or STS while you are so completely mechanical.

Why did you feel that you were in any kind of position to make a thread about Christmas when most readers already are aware of the fact that you cannot possibly have a clue about Christmas considering the background you come from? Did you think that everyone would just forget all about it and brush it under the rug?

No, I don't think it was a way of "making it OK for you too", it was another way of making yourself the center of attention.

Reluctantly being honest here,

I'm not sure you are capable of being honest at all, reluctantly or not. I think you just make up narratives to make yourself feel and look good in your own eyes/mind.

I do COMPLETELY ignore the problems I have and not take them as seriously as I should do occasionally, and although others 'pick up on programmes' etc, picking up on my own programmes, traits, emotions, feelings... is proving extremely difficult at this current time, as depicting the knowledge I've learnt and continuously learning from my own conscious self (or in other words relating it to others and myself) is difficult. I think I might need to slow down on the knowledge intake, and the 'trying to obtain all forms of consciousness'

All of this is just a narrative because you've been spotted covertly manipulating to get attention.

I feel I have to explain how I think, and what I believe in this post.

No, you feel that you must make another narrative to save face.

I've always thought that my "way of thinking" was strange when I consciously realised (a few years back) that every thought process had a few contradictions, and when I came to a conclusion or an answer, it would be because of the current situation and the way it related in terms of appropriateness.

My Father once pressed on at me asking me how I thought and asked me 'draw out how I think' I said I couldn't because it entirely depends what, and how I was thinking, and who. I also explained that it depends WHEN.

I'm so reluctant to pick at myself!

Not a bad narrative at all! It actually approaches the truth which is that you are "many" inside there and there is no real "you". You are little more than a series of dissociated programmed thought loops - completely mechanical. Pretty much the way everyone starts out, so it's nothing very special. All these programs are probably what has enabled you to survive a narcissistic family dynamic.

The question is, do you want to grow up to be a "real girl"? Stop being a Pinnochia?

 

[herondancer]

If this issue with your mom was as immediate as you made it out to be, why would you negate the advice given? It wasn't just one person that recommended therapy but multiple people! A lot of energy was expended by members in offering to help you work through this situation and at the end of it all you didn't really like the answer to your issues with your mom, which was therapy. Otherwise, you were given a lot of attention (energy) in that thread but weren't crazy about the answer so pretty much deferred it for later. Only you know if you are seriously considering the idea but judging from that answer I would say unlikely.

I have such little faith in talking to therapists, I'm not sure if it's a part of myself, a dissociated ego state, a spirit attachment or what!
I just simply can't imagine sitting there and talking ALL ABOUT ME and my problems, without wondering what THEY'RE thinking

In a way, does it really matter what the source is for therapy material? Even spirit attachment is only considered as a theory here. It could just as easily be a fragment of yourself that has taken on its own "life" as a protective action at some point in your life. A good therapist will help you use all the information you come up with without having to label it. A good therapist will not be judging what you are saying, except as how it can be used to help you understand yourself better. They will be thinking about strategies to help you function in a healthier manner.

The serious thought of seeing a therapist really just makes me cry

Maybe ask yourself who would be crying. The part of you that would be joyous at being able to be more free and fully yourself, or the part that is terrified at that prospect, because it would be giving up what is familiar and comfortable, no matter how miserable it is.