having no friends

[realitybugll]

Thanks for sharing Deedlet. well, I would think if you don't need her in your life... best not to reconnect. From what you describe though, it does seem like the issue is unresolved for you. Its sad for your friendship to have been that way: only outside of school. I can't really relate to this exactly. I have never been in the position where a person wanted to keep hanging out with me, but I cut them off--like you describe. I don't mean to say that too harshly. perhaps it was for the best what you did.

I am thinking about me now... I am lonely, I would be happy to start being friends with one of my old friends again. I have even been pondering calling one or two of my old friends. I feel like sometimes I never really had a "personal" relationship with my friends, but this isn't so bad I suppose because it is hard for feeding to go on like this. what we did is play video games, basketball, soccer, watch TV, small talk... some intellectual theorizing. I wouldn't care in a sense to back to sleep, not saying I am "awake"... but sometimes I would would willingly pick "sleep" if it would relieve the loneliness I have. The way I think about it is that really all i want is happiness... and if I don't work on myself in this incarnation... I always have the next.

The thing is though I can't go back to sleep. I'm lonely; suffering; and I see myself having no control being incapable of relieving this. So I am driven to the C's...and Gurdjieff.

I see myself as very reactionary. I would give this pursuit up in an instant to "fit in", have friends, be happy. but actually this has been changing. I was realizing I wouldn't be able to leave Gurdjieff behind anymore. I was thinking that if I actually became content again that I would not be able to leave what I have learned that last few years behind. But the whole point is that I cannot just magically be happy.

I read this from melatonin:

"Insert Quote
I also think a more important question would be - why do people need to think they are popular?
Why do people crave the acceptance of others?

Why do 'popular' people feel the need to identify with others as been lonley?
Its pretty easy to make friends and gain acceptance from others, if your being FALSE to your true self. Ive personally played that game."

I can't relate to this. I can't do this: put on a mask, be false, etc. like I said in my last post. When I lost most of my friends a couple years ago, I feel like i lost my identity. and I lost the "self confidence" that I had. I had social anxieties, but when i was with friends i didn't, and not as bad. The anxieties are a lot worse now. It is hard to have even false "comforting" relationships, when you see yourself as worthless and pathetic when you are talking to someone--and, compared to the person you are talking to. I havn't been able to to do it.

 

[knowledge_of_self]

Thanks for sharing Deedlet. well, I would think if you don't need her in your life... best not to reconnect. From what you describe though, it does seem like the issue is unresolved for you. Its sad for your friendship to have been that way: only outside of school. I can't really relate to this exactly. I have never been in the position where a person wanted to keep hanging out with me, but I cut them off--like you describe. I don't mean to say that too harshly. perhaps it was for the best what you did.

Well I must say it was not easy to 'cut her out'. Because I was also lonely and hanging out with her after school and on weekends was really nice and made me feel like I was 'normal' and had friends. But as time went by, I realized what we had was pretty fake. Because if it was real.. than why was she ashamed to be my friend in school. Why would she not eat lunch with me even after I asked her many times to do so. So at the time I realized that our friendship was pretty much a one way street. She used me for whatever reason after school and on weekends, and I used her to not feel lonely, and felt tierd of being the the only one making any effort to want to hang out in school. Perhaps it was selfish of me, but I wanted more than what we had- I wanted TRUE friendship.

I am thinking about me now... I am lonely, I would be happy to start being friends with one of my old friends again. I have even been pondering calling one or two of my old friends. I feel like sometimes I never really had a "personal" relationship with my friends, but this isn't so bad I suppose because it is hard for feeding to go on like this. what we did is play video games, basketball, soccer, watch TV, small talk... some intellectual theorizing. I wouldn't care in a sense to back to sleep, not saying I am "awake"... but sometimes I would would willingly pick "sleep" if it would relieve the loneliness I have.

Hmm well this is how i think about it. I have felt the exact same thing as you, when I felt lonely and wanted to just let go, and play some video games, watch some anime or a movie or something and chit chat about this or that. And there is nothing wrong with those things, except one. All those things are part of the "A influences" Gurdijeff speaks of. On the other hand there is nothing wrong with playing basketball or physicall activities that get rid of excess energy build-up. There is nothing wrong with a bit of conversation, as long as you're aware of yourself at all times and make sure you're not getting into any feeding dynamics (which can be pretty hard).

One thing though, you say that "you would willingly pick 'sleep' if it would relieve the loneliness". Well this is something that you really need to think about. Why are you so afraid to be alone? Perhaps it's something that stems from some sort of truamatic experience when you were younger. Most people, including myself- when felt lonely, it was due to the fact that I didn't know myself, or had any aim or direction in life. I kept asking what's the meaning of life, if it's so lonely. But sometimes, being lonely is part of your lesson profile. You need to be alone to learn something, so that you can share that something with others once you're not lonely (if that makes sense).

I also think about it like this. Lonliness can lead you to make really wrong 'friends'. Because all you're thinking about is getting rid of the lonliness feeling, you don't even realize that you're making friends with someone who's using you. And there are a lot of psychopaths in the world that can pick up on people's weaknesses and lonliness for that matter.

The way I think about it is that really all i want is happiness... and if I don't work on myself in this incarnation... I always have the next.

I've thought along these lines before, and to me personally it's a very depressing thought. In some ways I dont' really want to think about reincarnating on this planet. The problem of "lonliness" in its self lies imo with the fact that we're on an STS frequency planet.

Think about it- if you worked on yourself and aligned your FRV with STO,and thus reincarnated in an STO plane of existence in the next life- you would not experience lonliness any longer. IMO there is no such thing as lonliness in STO. Everyone helps one another, there are no such things as negative feeding dynamics and so on and on- therefore you'd never feel lonliness again. But at this moment, you're saying I'm willing to 'go back to sleep so I don't feel lonliness, and if I don't work on myself this incrantion, I always have the next'... when the bigger picture is, that you are perpetuating and coming back to the thing you resent, STS and lonliness.

The thing is though I can't go back to sleep. I'm lonely; suffering; and I see myself having no control being incapable of relieving this. So I am driven to the C's...and Gurdjieff.

I see myself as very reactionary. I would give this pursuit up in an instant to "fit in", have friends, be happy. but actually this has been changing. I was realizing I wouldn't be able to leave Gurdjieff behind anymore. I was thinking that if I actually became content again that I would not be able to leave what I have learned that last few years behind. But the whole point is that I cannot just magically be happy.

We're all reactionary wetroof. You're not alone. In ways we're all lonely- especially truth seekers. The important thing is to learn as much about yoruself as possible ("know thyself") and to not give up on the work- even when it gets hard and lonely. Not giving up, is what warriors are made of.

I read this from melatonin:

"Insert Quote
I also think a more important question would be - why do people need to think they are popular?
Why do people crave the acceptance of others?

Why do 'popular' people feel the need to identify with others as been lonley?
Its pretty easy to make friends and gain acceptance from others, if your being FALSE to your true self. Ive personally played that game."

I can't relate to this. I can't do this: put on a mask, be false, etc. like I said in my last post. When I lost most of my friends a couple years ago, I feel like i lost my identity.

Maybe the "identity" you lost was part of your faulse self?

and I lost the "self confidence" that I had. I had social anxieties, but when i was with friends i didn't, and not as bad. The anxieties are a lot worse now. It is hard to have even false "comforting" relationships, when you see yourself as worthless and pathetic when you are talking to someone--and, compared to the person you are talking to. I havn't been able to to do it.

Perhaps the reason you have lost so much "self confidence" is becuase you relied on others for it? Self confidence comes from within. That's what it means to know yourself. If you know yourself, you will have self confidence. Imo, you need to examin all of the above closely. The loss of your self confidence, seeing yourself as worthless and pathetic, comparing yourself to others. These are all things that stem from deep psychological wounding- most likely from some trauama in your youth.
Have you read any of the Narcissism "Big Five" books? If not, I really suggest you do so- as it would help take some big steps in the direction of getting to knowyourself.

 

[Buddy]

my relationships with people are what made me increasingly unhappy and brought me to this forum, the Cass website, and introduced me to many new topics. I have emotional trauma. many "problems" and damage to work out within myself. I am really motivated to work on this.

When I lost most of my friends a couple years ago, I feel like i lost my identity. and I lost the "self confidence" that I had. I had social anxieties, but when i was with friends i didn't, and not as bad. The anxieties are a lot worse now.

Hi wetroof. In light of the two quotes above, I'm echoing Deedlet's question about the Big 5 and for the same reasons. If you haven't read them, please do. Otherwise, you might not realize that those of us who have experienced various traumas - especially in the early years - often form deep emotional wounds; and these wounds can, and do, interfere with the normal childhood development process of "separation and individuation" from parents, guardians, caretakers, or whomever.

A 'separate' identity seems to normally form at an early age, as a child begins to realize that he or she is NOT Mom, NOT Dad, NOT anyone else. At that early stage of psychological development, if the process of forming an independent identity is interrupted, we might achieve an ability to feel like 'somebody' only when we take on the identity of a group. And a group can be of any kind as long as the people involved bond with each other through shared experiences and understandings - even if the experiences and understandings are all negative.

IOW, a person can have a 'group identity' take the place of his missing individual sense of self and this group will be sufficient to fill emotional needs, because the person doesn't have a sense of himself that seems able to 'BE' independently of others.

So, for all practical purposes, the individual IS the group and whatever happens to the group, may as well be happening to the individual - at least from the perspective of what is conventionally called the self-esteem, OSIT.

Friendships are usually about one person strengthening the ego of another, and vice-versa.

That's another way to put it. I would also add that here on the forum, no matter how new a person may be, if he/she is sincere about the Work, we can 'feed' each other what is needed from time to time because it may make the difference in helping someone keep going in the Work.


As an aside, here's what you said about happiness:

The way I think about it is that really all i want is happiness...
...
But the whole point is that I cannot just magically be happy.

You might benefit by asking and answering yourself "what do I mean by happiness exactly?"

What specific form would happiness take for you in the context of this discussion? If this question is a bit hard to answer, you might find this useful:

...people who are confused and maladjusted are likely to remain so until they learn to state their problems clearly enough to indicate what sort of steps might be taken in order to change their situation or their behavior to advantage.

People in Quandaries: The Semantics of Personal Adjustment
Wendell Johnson _http://www.uiowa.edu/~cyberlaw/wj/wjpinq.html

I'm not saying you are unclear about the relationship of your friendship issues to your happiness, I'm just saying the devil's in the details. It has helped me a lot to focus in on the actual component parts of my problems to find something I could actually DO, however insignificant it might seem at the time. :)

FWIW, but I hope it helps.

 

[melatonin]

WetRoof - Hi there.

I have always gone back to old friends. I have issues around allowing myself to move on. Ive always cycled back to old friends in the past. Ive been very dependant on the friends ive had. I didnt realise it at the time, but since my breakdown i do.
Now id rather be alone than put so much responsibility in others.
In some ways its not their fault. I ask alot.

Im like a german sheperd that barks alot at other dogs. One that was kicked around as a puppy. Inside im a good animal, but i dont trust other human beings. When i have opened up, ive been let down.
This just re-inforces the messages from my childhood. Vicious cycle.

On the other hand i dont feel like im missing out on anything too deep and menaingful. Since i started spending more time on my own and working on my past, ive learnt more about life in 3 years then the previous 30. And i didnt need anyone else around to do this.
It really is true that you only learn from negative experiences.
Im sure at some point all be doing the same crap most other people are. Working, socialising, and saying " how are you?" to people, and not meaning it etc etc etc.
The usual crap that "makes the world turn round" blar blar. :)

 

[realitybugll]

It takes a lot of energy to look back on my life, examine it, and develop a protocol for moving forward. one of my primary aims is to be more comfortable around people. I've worked at this but I guess not hard enough. Out of condition and habit I speak the minimal to people possible. I avoid feeling "awkward" but even with people I like i can't manage to let my guard down. I'm very focused on what people will think of me. this makes it draining to be around people and it stops me from saying things. I would rather have no identity to others than be a strange/weird person.

In the last year I don't think I've made progress on myself in this regard. every small step I set myself it seems is too large. It's hard because I really only have myself in this pursuit. my mom's support or advice doesn't mean that much to me; its not motivating. my brother does not motivate me. He encourages me to do what feels best in the moment, which is non action. The last three years I had a lot of opportunities to share with my friends, my struggle interacting with people, but I did not. I guess I would regret this. I want someone to help me set a goal. that is just how I feel. otherwise I back out at the last minute (or before). The predator mind. For a while, I made myself make a conversation at the bus stop I wait at in the morning. About three days. This was one of my greatest efforts... short lived.

I don't care if I have a fake relationship or not, I just want to be able to create some of these. I think of it as being a pretty impossible task though.

Along the lines of what you guys's mentioned, perhaps a more in-depth exploration of my feelings of inadequacy and worthlessness would be good. I think I would like to set aside some time for this. I think this helps in the times I have examined these feelings.

I don't think I could manage to read any of the big 5. A lot of my energy is devoted towards making money at the moment. Is there anyone of them that would be particularly good in my case?

 

[shijing]

I don't think I could manage to read any of the big 5. A lot of my energy is devoted towards making money at the moment. Is there anyone of them that would be particularly good in my case?

Trapped in the Mirror might be one to look out for -- it seems to be the one I find most commonly in book stores, and it might be possible to find it used as well. It also has a direct focus on narcissistic wounding, so I guess I would recommend that one in this case, FWIW.

 

[luke wilson]

My problem with relations between people is I have never really figured out what is the best thing to base a relationship/friendship on - common aim?, emotional attachment?, common attributes?, what really?. In my life I have been unlucky in one respect in that I have never lived in one place for more than 3 years. We always moved so I always changed houses and school everytime, even ended up moving countries. Moved from private to public school. From boarding to day school. Done the whole nine yards. So I can say that, I have no friends. Sure I have met people, made friends at school but they were so temporary, so non-consequential that it caused me to go into depression when I soon came to realise that I have nothing. What is the value of life, if it is not somehow founded on richness based on social bonds?? Now the only value I see to life, the only thing worthwhile is going after freedom from the false personality.

Personally from experience, I found that, people become friends or develop a fondness to each other when they are thrown into a situation together. For example, school. It's natural you make friends. These friendships are generally based on many superficial things because of the nature of our world in my opinion, popular culture, how one looks, what one is good at, ones strengths and weaknesses. I found these decide who or what group you hang out with - a form of gravity that pulled you one way. And at some point one had to compromise inorder to fit in, you couldnt be yourself because oneself is a greedy want all person in that you want people to be how you prefer them to be and not what they are so one has to learn that infact, no the world doesnt rotate around you and you have to make adjustments for this. I think this is where the whole illusion thing comes in, in that, we lose ourselves in this process of making adjustments, not to mention that we were born not really having a clear understanding of who we are and what this place is. OSIT.

What really gets me, is that when it comes down to it, no one meant anything to anyone, that people are just expendable(and you see this by how people treat each other despite there words claiming the contrary) - for example and this is none of my business, even here from what I have read, Laura and her friend fred who they used to channel together back in the early days and how that completely got obliterated and how now she has a completely new circle of people around her, it's quite amazing how things just change so ruthlessly that I cant help but feel so weak and powerless before the forces of life - not that I am putting the blame on either one of the involved parties, if anything the blame should be placed on the forces surrounding the whole thing that neither party really had control or understanding of, in my opinion.

Friendships were something so temporary. I never lost friends because of arguments or disagreements or anything like that. It's just that, time and distance obliterated what was there that we are now practically strangers. To me that just showed how cheap life is and I envied people who were born, lived and grew up in one place all there life before deciding to venture out into the world, atleast you get enough time to build and re-enforce a sort of self-importance or individuality?? which does act as a shield when one finally ventures out and realise that the world is way more mysterious and dangerous than we first thought.

I think(in my opinion) in a way, friendships are valuable but the problem is when we put everything into it and start failing to see the other person and start assuming things, about there perfection and the perfection of the relationship at hand. The truth is, we are not perfect neither is anyone within the prison(otherwise we wouldnt be in prison in the first place) and as a result nothing that comes out of that is perfect(atleast in the way we think of perfect) and to forget that equals courting disaster.

Finally after re-reading this whole post, I have come to the the opinion, that atleast on my part, I think it all comes down to us as human beings needing something to hold on to inorder to feel safe. Sometimes we hold onto friendships or a loved one or a job or an aim etc. When we have nothing to hold onto, then we have to stand on our own 2 feet and that is something that is dangerous and scary as many of us dont know how to do that, but in a way doing that equals our liberation or a sort of liberation.

 

[Psalehesost]

My problem with relations between people is I have never really figured out what is the best thing to base a relationship/friendship on - common aim?, emotional attachment?, common attributes?, what really?.

While I don't have many friends, nor socialize much, and have relatively little experience with social interaction, my thinking (fwiw) is as follows:

Whether a friendship is formed or not, so it goes (I see no need to "try" to "make friends" - that would be STS-motivated and likely detrimental - rather just let things "flow" with external considering) - but always be vigilant in case something turns out to be (or become) detrimental, and "act for your destiny" - put an end to it if it is detrimental, since if it is it helps neither if it continues.

Relationships would be a trickier issue, and one I have no experience whatsoever with, but based on the experiences of others, it would be the same, only in addition colinearity becomes crucial and the need for vigilance is much greater since there is a very significant risk of being befuddled by one's brain chemicals.

 

[mkrnhr]

At the same time, part of the 3D learning is through interaction with others. One has to be carefull for some relationships, but overall what is required IMHO is discernment, not total isolation. Remember that the fourth way is about being in (and learning through) life, not out of life. There is a balance to attain, a balance between vigilance and courage. One learns from the lessons, and all is lessons isn't it.

 

[jordifs]

This post is interesting, but at the end I found out myself that for me friendship is a relationship that evolves with time, changes, and it is extremely subjective. I do not want to get angry, or to bother because other people opinion. An opinion about, for instance: “what is to be a real friend”, “to betray others trust” . So at the end I do not care 'too much'. I am as I am, and my friends will respect me and accept me as I am. Even if they believe I'm insane, or crazy, due to my new belief system (linked to Cassiopaea). Some have told me.

Let's analyse two real examples:
I need money to pass one month (to eat). I can ask to family, but I don't want to ask them. I ask to a long time friend A1 for money. I know this A1 person has a lot of money (savings for years), so a few amount is not an issue. Even before asking, he points out that he will never lend money to a friend because it is clearly a threat. It is risk, a cause for loosing friendship. That comment was for me then, a key element to loose him as 'a friend'. Near in time I comment the economic need to a business colleague (friend A2), a short time friend. He rapidly offers me money, with no message of 'you must return to me next month', he said to me 'return me without haste'. I discovered then a 'good friend'. My feelings on this situation were, I do not appreciate money as a valuable resource, I cannot sustain a relationship with another person when such belief is not shared.

Later in time I discovered issues about friend A2. When speaking about healthcare I found several conflicts about what is good/bad for health. For instance dairy, soy, etc. We always argue and for any link I have that justify my position, he founds a contradicting one. When a conflict arise, he prefers to belief the reality that is compatible with the present world view. The government, the medic industry and the food companies are not stupid, you are. So I've seen later in time, how I lost friend A2.

Later in time I had a conversation with friend A1 (recently). I always raise difficult subjects such as the soul, spirit, scientific knowledge, healthcare issues. I discovered that he has a very limited knowledge, but he has a very open mind! He does not discard any of my comments as insane or crazy. He recognises that there is a reality out there to be discovered, so much profound and complex that no truth can be exposed without great knowledge. In essence he became much more interested on Cassiopaea and wants to keep in touch with me to discover and learn more. The summary is that I attached a 'friend flag' to a friend A1, which lost it some time ago. He is not only interested in knowledge, he wants to DO something, even investing money. Physically wants to do something.


I hope this post clarifies my opinion about the topic. Friendship is really dynamic, it changes, and it is subjective for each person! So it is not worthy to care 'too much', just find your true friends every day. And for me now, my friends cannot be others than the children of Cassiopaea.

Warm regards and strength to all my comrades (you all).

 

[Mrs. Peel]

My problem with relations between people is I have never really figured out what is the best thing to base a relationship/friendship on - common aim?, emotional attachment?, common attributes?, what really?. In my life I have been unlucky in one respect in that I have never lived in one place for more than 3 years. We always moved so I always changed houses and school everytime, even ended up moving countries. Moved from private to public school. From boarding to day school. Done the whole nine yards. So I can say that, I have no friends. Sure I have met people, made friends at school but they were so temporary, so non-consequential that it caused me to go into depression when I soon came to realise that I have nothing. What is the value of life, if it is not somehow founded on richness based on social bonds?? Now the only value I see to life, the only thing worthwhile is going after freedom from the false personality.

A lot of people are social creatures. We look for "friends" among our family, coworkers, neighbors, etc. Unfortunately, most people do not understand or even know about "the work" so basing one's friendships on "common interests" in that direction will probably come up empty handed. What to do then? Live our lives all alone in our rooms glued to the computer screen here where at least we know we "fit in"?

In a couple hours, my husband and I are going to gather up some vegetable dishes (our contribution) and go across the street and have Christmas dinner with some of our neighbors. My mom died last month and my brother took my dad to Florida to live with him so there is a void there. My husband's family is pretty dysfunctional and we usually try and avoid them. This year we are using the "excuse" (trying to be external considerate) that I'm not feeling very festive this year (which really is true) because of the loss of my parents, to get out of going to dinner at his brother's today, where everybody will pretend to get along until somebody walks out of the room and the rest will start to badmouth them till they get back.

Now if I even mentioned anything about hyperdimensional beings, mind control, etc., to the neighbors, they would look at me as if I had two heads. But that's okay, they are alseep and that is their right. Otherwise, they are basic, decent people. After dinner, we'll play some board gaves like maybe Trivial Pursuit, have a few laughs, and we'll go home.

Do I wish I could be with more "like minded" people? Heck yeah. But some times you just make do with what you've got on hand, because today I do want to be around people.

 

[luke wilson]

Sorry for your loss Mrs. Peel.

But some times you just make do with what you've got on hand, because today I do want to be around people.

It is nice to be around people and just have the whole thing function perfectly and maybe at some point in the future, that will be common place but as you say, sometimes we have to make do with what we have.

 

[anya]

I am sorry for your loss. Take care Mrs. Peel.

 

[dannybananny]

I think that having someone to share something that is of mutual interest is nice and wanted, but if we face the facts in this cold blue world it's almost impossible to have true friends. True warrior isn't touched by self pity and his desires because he is concentrating 100 per cent on himself and when you are a child in esoteric sense then thee is a much work that has to be done and things like STS need for friends becomes irrelevant because there are some things that are above you and of greater importance then your self-importance, the greatest gift is to have yourself and when you have that other things are secondary. I am personally a loner and really didn't had time to have friends and was born in environment where nobody wanted to be friend with me from my early childhood, later on collage things got changed, i have some "friends" if you can call them that, had friends that weren't really friends but only were looking at themselves so I realized better to be alone, and maybe people who want so badly friends and got left alone every time have to learn the lesson to accept loneliness and find happiness in themselves.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

I am sorry for your loss. Take care Mrs. Peel.

Thanks, both of you. For the last two years I was so focused on my elderly parents care and health, then to lose mom unexpectedly and have dad relocate so far away in the space of a month has left a real emptiness. I've been flooded with memories of Xmas as a child these past couple days. It was nice to go over and spend time with the neighbors, asleep tho they be, and take my mind off it for a while.