having no friends

[Ca.]

You will find comfort of a friend if you first make the best friend a man can ever have if he makes a friend with himself first. Then you will be surprised that then only then can you can be friend to others.

Unknown
True friendship is seen through the heart not through the eyes.


James F. Byrnes
Friendship without self-interest is one of the rare and beautiful things of life.


Mencius
Friendship is one mind in two bodies.

Unknown
A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and can sing it back to you when you have forgotten the words.

Friendship is the hardest thing in the world to explain. It's not something you learn in school. But if you haven't learned the meaning of friendship, you really haven't learned anything. •Muhammad Ali

Some people come into our lives and quickly go. Others stay awhile, make footprints on our hearts and we are never, ever the same. •Unknown

Make new friends but keep the old ones; one is silver and the other's gold. •Anonymous

Give me one friend, just one, who meets the needs of all my varying moods.
Author: Muhammad Ali

 

[Skipling]

This is a really interesting thread!

Many of you who have contributed to this thread have raised interesting ideas on the subject of what is friendship, and what constitutes a desireable friendship (in the context of us here working on knowing ourselves), and I can truly relate to the push-me-pull-you dynamic of questioning the value of my friends and also in tandem the egocentric self-importance that can come into play when one becomes so enamoured of one's knowledge.

But there are just so many negatives involved in that mode of thinking that I finally chose to abandon it entirely. For me, friendships are multi-layered, multi-faceted, and in many respects hyperdimensional. I find it very interesting spotting the different selves in myself when with various people, and also noticing the shifts in my friends, quite often most noticeable in social environments where many other people (friends of friends) are present. It can make for some very complex dynamic shifts, and can also be more than a little disorientating, but so much of it, while being close to role-play, also provides me with so many opprtunities to get to know myself in different situations with different people.

I know loneliness, as I became almost hermit-like on more than one occasion, but I realised that this was a fear based choice; fear of rejection, and a fear of discovering one or two things about myself that perhaps I was still in denial about.

Friendships have also taught me the value of practicing external consideration. I no longer beat a dead horse with my mates by talking about UFO's, or geo-politics, or the evils of Freemasonry (which used to be a real bugbear of mine, and I still haven't quite figured out why).

Ultimately, I have no desire to rid myself of A influences in their entirety (if that is indeed even possible). I chat about the footie with some of my mates (I hate the filthy amount of money in the sport and the shallow WAG culture, but I love the purity of the sport itself, I LOVED playing it as a kid, and still avidly support two teams). I have questioned this many times. Why do I invest emotionally in the successes on the pitch of a bunch of millionaires? But anyone who's scored a thirty yard screamer knows why: IT'S FUN!

I even have a mate that I can confide in with regards to my fears and anxieties, because he suffers from some too. I am very thankful for this, but nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see him, and me, rid of them for good. Heck, we could still chow down on our love of footie and music and film. ;D

I love sharing discoveries in music and film with my mates too; unlike with footie I can go deeper, but never really delving into the kind of nitty gritty that is possible here. But you can employ cunning to make subtle points about ways of seeing things. Not that I have ever really delved properly into this forum in my opinion, either. In this sense, I suppose I am truly between worlds; a little too deep for my mates to be close friendships, but not really deep or commited enough to really get the most out of being a part of this network here. I've been aware of this for quite a while. I know I need to make a more committed effort here.

Sometimes it's just good to enjoy having a crack, and laugh and joke about the madness of the human condition, and this is something that binds me with all of my friends. I don't have many, but what we do each of us share is a kind of outsider quality, a sense of not really fitting into anything, and not really being all that bothered by it at all. In fact, the opposite is quite often true. We all pretty much agree that normality is a myth (or perhaps a utopian dream?), and my way of ingratiating myself has increasingly become a kind of knowing, penitent self-deprecation (I used to be pretty arrogant and preachy, but thankfully I have been forgiven by many :P)

I don't go out much though, because I don't drink any more, and really don't enjoy the whole boozy night out thing, and all of my mates round here do. I've fallen off the wagon a few times, but it just offers nothing, it's just depressing, bio-chemically it was never my poison anyway. But this does reduce the social aspects of my evenings somewhat.

One thing that always gets me though is New Years Eve. I hate nightclubs, and as a result of this I inevitably find myself alone on this night each year. I could fake it and tag along for a beery night out, but on the few occasions that I have, I have always ended up feeling more miserable than I would have if I'd stayed at home. I know myself enough to know the underlying reason for that old program resurfacing too (going out to pubs and clubs that is). The ole "luuuurve" bug ;). I also know all too well that I will never find a soul mate in a rank old nightclub playing unspeakable dirges masquerading as music. Yet I feel lacking, and conversely a frustration with this program, because the very desire that underpins it is, while understandable is, in this day and age, highly unrealistic. It always resurfaces though. :(

So, I empathise with the lonely. I am seldom alone, yet feel this loneliness too. I am truly thankful for the friends I have managed to make in this life, because I could have very easily ended up a miserable old loner, because in the past and the not so distant past I felt that part of me coming back to the fore. But believe me it is no way to live, in fact it is antithetical to life.

If you're strong enough in yourself, and confident enough in your sense of who you are, however imperfect that may be, you will never be successfully vectored away from the search for truth, if, indeed, that is your raison d'etre.

None of my friends share my search (one mate of mine in th U.S has fallen hook line and sinker for the wikileaks sideshow), for absolute truth ( the very part of me that brought me here in fact), but I love them anyway. They are each and every one of them good, fun and decent people, who just have different motivations, needs and different lessons to learn in this life. I think I unsettled a few of them on occasions by raising subjects that spooked them, but I've learned a valuable lesson in consideration for others here, and they thankfully do not think any less of me for my reckless tongue. And for that I am quite relieved.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

One thing that always gets me though is New Years Eve. I hate nightclubs, and as a result of this I inevitably find myself alone on this night each year. I could fake it and tag along for a beery night out, but on the few occasions that I have, I have always ended up feeling more miserable than I would have if I'd stayed at home. I know myself enough to know the underlying reason for that old program resurfacing too (going out to pubs and clubs that is). The ole "luuuurve" bug ;). I also know all too well that I will never find a soul mate in a rank old nightclub playing unspeakable dirges masquerading as music. Yet I feel lacking, and conversely a frustration with this program, because the very desire that underpins it is, while understandable is, in this day and age, highly unrealistic. It always resurfaces though. :(

Well, look at it this way. If you're doing The Diet, you shouldn't be drinking anyhow, so good thing you're not going to pubs. And yes, I really doubt you'll find a soulmate in a "rank old nightclub playing unspeakable dirges masquerading as music." I like that description.

 

[Skipling]

I like that description.

Ahhhh....to be pulverised by those moronic beats ever again......never I say!!!!

So true what you say as well, in those environments I have always been painfully conscious of my sense of "un-belonging". And booze is incredibly easy to give up, considering it tastes absolutely vile in pretty much every incarnation I've tried.

It's all a classic snapshot of our ponerised society: disconnected, sad people dosing themselves with foul tasting liquids so they can enjoy the illusion of human contact and the merest frisson of sensuality for a couple of hours in a banal week. But the "music", my most venomous invective cannot do my hatred of it justice!!!! The poverty of the minds that actually enjoy it though....I shudder at the merest consideration.

"Hang the DJ" indeed.

 

[Bar Kochba]

Whoa, skipling, that is some venomous hatred you have, indeed. I dont think its healthy for you to invest that much emotion into hating. It is what it is. Does the music cause you to experience negative associations in the club, ergo your hatred of said music?

 

[Skipling]

Ah, it's not so much hatred, but an anger. I suppose there is a double edged sword there. I enjoy getting angry about those environments, mainly because I resented them as being one of the only environments where I could meet up with my mates. My main resentment there being that such an environment is hopeless for socialising because you cannot even hear yourself think in them, let alone listen and talk.

Plus also, I have had a tendency to be a little snobbish and closed minded with regards to dance music in general. But not all. Intelligent, thought provoking electronic music with danceable beats have always been around; some are very enjoyable. Generally though, in the clubs I've been to (thankfully not many, too!) the music has been "handbag hideous". Some electronica resembles meccano, and some resembles duplo! ;D The latter reigns supreme in the clubs, and the senses are infantilised; if you point this out, you're a kill-joy. Oh well.

Basically, I have a slightly dry tongue, and a perhaps dark edge when I vent, but I am genuinely being a little humourous here too. You're quite right; it is what it is, and no more. However, when you see bright, well mannered people slowly descending into wasted caricatures of their former selves after an evening of jager-bombs, you feel saddened, and then angry. The bottom line is that they are in toxic environments, and it's gutting to see so many people giving these establishments their hard earned money, because they have no other options. The old "belong or starve" quandry, transposed to the social context.

Especially when you get to talk to them the next day and you see their pallid, puzzled expressions when they wonder why the hell they put themselves through it in the first place. Not to mention the old "never again" phrases being wheeled out for the umpteenth time.

It's just one of those bugbears I have. In many ways I think it is representative of my personal frustrations, as I feel like I'm in a state of self-ostracisation for my sanity, which indeed takes no effort. But it can lead to me feeling a little lonely at times.

 

[Bar Kochba]

I too have a wealth, ahem, of experience, with the bar/club scene. I would go to escape. I would lose myself, and end up in a fight or with a girl I had just met. Gurdjieff spoke of they way alcohol can bring a person's essence out, and many times our essences are very immature or sickly. I get what you are saying about your dry wit, but I am not sure anger is meant to be enjoyed! Unless that, too, was dry wit on your part.

 

[Skipling]

Point taken. I have been, and still am, harbouring a lot of anger and it is causing me no end of pain in my life, in all aspects. I am really taking this on board, and I probably need to think about talking about it in greater detail. However I have had a rotten day and I really need a rest and a good night's sleep. I'll work on it tomorrow.

Thank you Bar Kochba, you've brought something that I've been in deep denial about into plain sight.

 

[luke wilson]

Sometimes I think people tend to make too much of friendship, and look for soulmates, etc., although if you find one that's great. But I would define friends as people who like each other's false personality. That makes it simpler. Then the enjoyment of being with a friend is you can relax and let your programs run a bit. It's kind of like a respite from The Work.

Then I would define Family as those who have to accept you (except for abuse or bad crimes) no matter what.

So people in a 4th way network are neither friends, nor family, since in such a network we help each other get rid of our false personality (or minimize them) and we don't accept people no matter what they do.

I have found looking back that I have had trouble when I confuse those 3 categories.

That is the best description of friendship that I have ever come across. From my observations(which could be wrong), especially now with the invention of social networking, I think friendships are essentially being re-designed into approval seeking. Atleast amongst males, I dont know about the female side of the coin. Like, I sometimes venture through 'friends' facebook pages and there statuses and it is amazing how many make really amazing efforts at being funny and witty. It is like everything has to be clever. That is the level of interaction. Also in real life, in my experience, different 'circles' or 'groups' have there own thing, essentially there own language of communication, which essentially adds up to 'showing oneself and ones brilliance off.' I hardly ever see people communicating in a real way, not surprising considering we take ourselves for the illusion and dont actually know who we are. In my experience I have also seen that sometimes it can get to a really unhealthy level, this 'act of projecting an image in order to appear a certain way' that people dont actually talk about there most inner true feelings. Instead they repress them or sugar coat them. It is like a war, where we are essentially all pretending to get along but deep down we are at each others throats. A war with the mask of laughter and humor, hiding away the savagery that lies underneath. That is just my take on what I have seen, the little slice I have had the privilege of witnessing. I know it might not be representative of what is out there, but I think mr premise is right in essentially saying, friends are people who like each others false personality and I would add, in some cases serve to make it stronger.

Also I think due to the rather dominant status of the false personality, the 'essence' is essentially deformed in alot of people, maybe even in all of us, and so when sometimes someone does make an attempt to step out of the 'illusion' and interact on a real level, they are met with this horrific image that sends them scampering back into the illusion, essentially the land of safety and familiarity. It is sad to say this, but the false personality has taken on an image of beauty and brilliance that the essence cannot match up to atleast in the current state of being. OSIT.

I also know all too well that I will never find a soul mate in a rank old nightclub playing unspeakable dirges masquerading as music. Yet I feel lacking, and conversely a frustration with this program, because the very desire that underpins it is, while understandable is, in this day and age, highly unrealistic. It always resurfaces though.

I have heard the music argument alot. I know two people who absolutely despise, modern popular music and make it a point to broadcast this. It is like somehow, they take there taste of music as an identity and bad music is like somekind of insult that evokes an emotional reaction. For one friend though, I think this is an excuse to express his anger. I am not really sure about the other one.

As for nightclubs, my experience of them has been that, a) to loud to speak or listen or interact, not that I go there to do that in the first place b) a place that is essentially a den for the false personality, men wanting to get laid or show off how awesome they are(masculinity), the number of arguments I have seen just because someone bumped into someone and spilled there drink is unbelivable c) a place where women go essentially for the same reason, seeking out the guy with the shiniest false personality. I am NOT judging. I have to admit that every time I go there, that program you described skipling does somehow act as a motivation, a 'you never know' kind of thing. In all honestly I find women in a night club 'less intimidating' than like during the day in real life - it is like there is a shield that gets taken down. Dont know why really but that said, I am not a hunter so I dont hunt. Never really endowed with the right 'skill-set' to enter into the arena of 'love' or the 'seeking' of it, be it in a night club or any other venue so essentially what I do in night clubs, is just 'hang out' with friends and watch the drama unfold before my eyes. Then go back home and into bed. I sometimes try and throw myself in there, maybe start up a conversation or something or some drunk person would come up and start a conversation but they are not really that 'hooking' as compared to when other people do have them especially in those conditions. What I find is that people live out there desires in those conditions. To me it always gets me thinking and wondering as to how 'desire' can be such a strong force that in those moments people lose control of there self-control and become automatons driven by desire. Be it, aggression(where people literally think they are immortal and impervious to harm so do the craziest things with no sense of empathy or conscious - the only reason such people get away with this is because in my opinion they havent run into any 'immortal being'(I hope none exists for there sake) then maybe they'd learn to act accordingly and stop thinking they are gods who can do as they please with no consequences whatsoever - I am sure even gods cannot do as they please) or sexual desire. Oh another thing that I have found out about night clubs, people tend to open up there mouths and pretty much start telling you all there frustrations, how the world has wronged them, how the music is crap, how everything is wrong, how people are dumb, how women are the 's' word, how there is great injustice etc etc. This tend to be people, who are essentially there but dont really want to be there but nonetheless are there hoping for something... It is amazing really. Tbh, from my point of view, I dont associate strongly enough for such strong reactions or emotions to be evoked in me because I have resigned myself to my fate. I have resigned myself to meeting my own demise in as 'amicable' fashion as possible. No point in fighting the inevitable, instead I turn to embrace it and learn as much as I can about it. I for one am no god.

In a weird way, it is like slowly learning how 'poor' one is, and that this is the starting point. That we are not born with everything and essentially robbed throughout the course of our lives that we end up dying bitter, angry and scornful toward the world which had the audacity to not recognise how wonderful, brilliant and amazing we are and the inhabitants who 'took' from us, the boss who didnt value us, etc etc... It is like, I have nothing and if I die with nothing, I havent really lost anything, nor am I going to go around acting like I am owed stuff. It is a weird thing trying to find the right orientation or stance of attacking life and actually embodying it. It's not like you dont have anything contrary to what I said earlier, but again it's not like you have anything. It's like both are true, there is a sense of poverty and richness all co-existing together in the same space. I fear part of the deception is that we take the richness for poverty and poverty for richness, OSIT. Oh, how the 'gods' toy with us mere mortals...

 

[Skipling]

Luke you are so right about the futility of my ranting about the nightclubs. It's so strange, because I have never liked the environments anyway, in fact I find them intimidating more than anything. So loud, booming, egos everywhere, and I would always shrink into myself, feeling inferior to the confident people around me. They are among the most uncomfortable social situations I have ever been in.

Plus I'm not really a very good socialiser. I can pretty much never approach a stranger for a conversation, although if I'm introduced to someone things get much easier. It was just sexual programming that would make me go, against my better wishes, to nightclubs in the firstplace. Always scared that I would stay alone for ever, and yes, I have resigned myself to that fate now through common sense, as I realise just how many problems I have in life. Relationships are really hard work, and I failed miserably to provide loving support to the one girlfriend/partner I had.

I'd also like to point out that I've only gone to a about five clubs in my life, and probably no more than about a dozen or so nights out of this form in total. I think Bar Kochba got the wrong impression from my rant, that maybe I was a raver getting withdrawal symptoms.

The music rant went a little out of hand, and I must admit that my ego was fed by Mrs Peel liking the wording of my rant. Man, oh so silly I am, oh so silly. It was just ego. I really don't listen to music that much any more, because my own tastes from days and years gone by now leave me a little bewildered. Sad songs move me these days, but emotionally apart from when I'm tearful, not much is going on within me to tell you the truth. In my paranoia I get angry and resentful, but that is a different story. I've been horrified by my anger at times recently, all related to my inability to get decent sleep. I really need to read the sleeping thread recommended to me. It's like I'm shell-shocked and afraid, after being a monster of falseness for so many years. My substance usage was all about dissociating from my real self, and creating this fake persona, where I could pretend to be someone more charismatic than my self, with no substance whatsoever. I've been realising this increasingly in recent years, and it has made me incredibly sad that I loved my true self so little that I'd hide behind this cloak of fakeness to cope with my reality.

So in short I think my ranting was just me lashing out because the whole scene reminds me of my low self esteem and inferiority complex, which is actually a theme running throughout my life, as I am discovering with my therapist.

I agree with Mr Premise's definition of friendship too, I am amazed at the lack of emotional content in my interactions with people with whom I'm "matey". Some are actually frightened by emotional honesty, because if they were to acknowledge mine, they would have to recognise their own. Behind all this falseness in our society there are some very vulnerable, scared souls I think.

My earlier post was an attempt to cheer myself up on the subject of my friends, because if you talk about genuine emotional feedback and deep, meaningful conversation, I really have very little of that in my life. Apart from my therapist (who is not emotive either I might add), and you lovely people here, I cannot really talk to anyone without fear of being rejected. I've seen people switch off as soon as I speak. Scarily once, I saw a yellow figure in front of one person talking to me telling me in lip speak (the figure was like an aura around the person) to f*** off, while he the person, in actuality changed the subject. Really scary. And so saddening.

It truly is a lonely world and I am glad that I can finally admit it here. Having said that I am so so glad that I am able to come on here and discuss everything that I've been rejected over in my own social life. I have learned so much about sincerity, honesty, integrity, the list goes on.

The forum is a godsend to me, as no doubt it is to mostly all of us who convene here.

Luke, I have to say you lost me a little bit towards the end of your post, but I kind of get the gist of what you're saying. People go to those clubs because for many it is their only option, of face being lonely or ostracised. I think it shows in some people's faces. They can't plaster on the fake smile, and to be honest neither could I.

I too am learning, or at least am now willing to acknowledge just how little I am, how little within me is real. I feel like a complete form of fiction. It's horrifying, but it is the human condition, as it is now. I suppose recognising it is the first step, and then comes the nurturing of that little voice inside who is always there, who struggles gamely on in spite of countless woes. Or at least that's where I think I am.

 

[mkrnhr]

Night clubs are not good to overcome your programs. Try having some activities (arts, sports, whatever) where you can meet people and have discussions and where you can overcome your fears little by little at your own rythm. Saying that people are machines, they have egos etc. is just a rationalization to avoid facing own fears. It's a buffer. Yes, people are asleep, some of them, we are too. So what? What is to be afraid of? The problem is inside, not outside.

 

[luke wilson]

hey skipling,

I didnt mean to make you feel down. Infact, what you kind of feel I think alot of people do. Alot of people are haunted by this feeling of 'loneliness' or being alone. I dont think you are as hollow as you think you are.. Infact I think the opposite. We are all pretty much in the same boat, the 'work' boat trying to better ourselves.

So in short I think my ranting was just me lashing out because the whole scene reminds me of my low self esteem and inferiority complex, which is actually a theme running throughout my life, as I am discovering with my therapist.

I think it's important that you are actually starting to deal with the root problems of some of your trauma. Sometimes we can take an 'image' and be bashful at that image and think the 'image' is the problem but sometimes it can turn out, that behind that 'image' lies deeper things that are actually fueling all the negativity. For example, in your case you say, 'low self-esteem and inferiority complex.' I think being able to distinguish and separate things actually shows an increase in 'discernment' and honesty to oneself which to me can only be a positive thing.

Sorry about my last few paragraphs, was only trying to state my own experience of night clubs. In a way very similar to yours when you say

It's so strange, because I have never liked the environments anyway, in fact I find them intimidating more than anything. So loud, booming, egos everywhere, and I would always shrink into myself, feeling inferior to the confident people around me.

Plus I'm not really a very good socialiser. I can pretty much never approach a stranger for a conversation [...] It was just sexual programming that would make me go, against my better wishes, to nightclubs in the firstplace.

I think alot of this is very common and alot of people share this same thoughts.. In all honesty night clubs are not 'healthy' places.

Night clubs are not good to overcome your programs. Try having some activities (arts, sports, whatever) where you can meet people and have discussions and where you can overcome your fears little by little at your own rythm. Saying that people are machines, they have egos etc. is just a rationalization to avoid facing own fears. It's a buffer. Yes, people are asleep, some of them, we are too. So what? What is to be afraid of? The problem is inside, not outside.

Yup, I agree the problem is inside and not outside but not everything is 'black' and 'white.' 'Outside' does exist and does have an influence, same, as 'inside.' Complex interplay between the 2.

I can see what you are saying mkrnhr, 'life' and 'living life' is the best place to 'learn and grow.'

However, I dont really know if it is all just 'rationalisation' rather than another tool to be able to navigate the world better and peacefully. In certain situations people are more 'automatic' than others and in those situations it would be better to stay out of there way and recognising this is a useful tool. For example, when someone gets 'overtaken' by rage or times of 'deep nationalism' etc etc... Sure I would avoid the person who has been overtaken by rage because of fear, and for good reason as well... Situations are 'dynamical' in nature, and so I really cant come up with a set of principles or rules that will work for every single situation. The only thing I know is to be malleable and not rigid in how we are able to perceive and react/interact obviously having truth and objectivity as a foundation and all that implies and getting to such a level involves 'work' to learn and understand the machine, the world, etc etc. OSIT.

 

[Skipling]

Yes, mkrnhr, this is a long running problem for me. I joined an art class in 2008, which was mildly fun, but it was all still-life stuff, which rather bored me to be honest.

I am aware that these are symptoms of the inner problem though, and I didn't want to imply that I was being dismissive of the people in the clubs I've been to. I just found the environments intimidating. Well out of my comfort zone too, with no opportunity for actual conversation.

I do need to find out why I am afraid in these situations. I am going to brainstorm for the underlying causes of my fears, and yes, I also understand that all of this fear-running in my mind is internal consideration, which is basically being self-obsessive. I've been looking at a few threads again on thought loops and social anxiety, and they have rung a few alarm bells to this sleepy one to say the very least.

Don't worry Luke, you didn't make me feel down, it's rather that I have been getting a little frustrated with my posts recently, because after writing and posting them I always feel that there is more inside me for me to say, something more genuine stirs inside, and the thoughts never come out right.

I just think that I'm not being honest enough with what I think, how I think, and how I feel, and this is reflected in the expression in my posts. It's a good sign for me, it's not getting me down. Rather, it's stirring me up!

 

[mkrnhr]

The only thing I know is to be malleable and not rigid in how we are able to perceive and react/interact obviously having truth and objectivity as a foundation and all that implies and getting to such a level involves 'work' to learn and understand the machine, the world, etc etc. OSIT.

That's the point. Everything is not dark or bright, and our life here in 3D reality has a purpose. One has to act according to the situation and to learn to act and not only react. That's fun. The Sufi saying "be in the world and not of the world" applies to the idea of the Work according to the 4th way. The thing is to be aware of what is happening inside and outside and to act accordingly. In his quest, the knight is very careful, but he advances with no fear. There is then a subtle distinction between being careful and being afraid that one has to work on IMHO :)

 

[Skipling]

mkrnhr, yes, I also get your point here about fear, it is my big problem at the moment, and I see your point about acting over reacting. With my therapist, the point was raised this week that fear can be manifested by taking overly extreme precautions, ie- being too careful.

This is what I have done, and am doing, and I have been stagnating as a result. Food for thought this, thank you!

I need to get to the root of what I am afraid of, and why. My therapist and I are getting there with this. I have a tendency to worry too much, and it's really got out of hand. Time for a more courageous look within.