heavy metal, extreme styles

[Franco]

I think the question is, can listening to death metal, heavy metal change your state of mind to something negative, or does a negative part of you like listening to heavy music?

I was an angry kid, i loved heavy metal and later hard techno music, but i also liked a lot of other music too and still do.

You see what i realised is, being angry, it makes you feel strong/powerful even if it's fake, also when you are angry it's almost impossible to feel other emotions meaning you can do a lot when angry that you normally couldn't/wouldn't, for me at least.

Listening to this kind of music in that frame of mind makes you feel like a bit of a bad ass but you are actually just angry and feel powerless so this music gives you a boost when needed.

Same with gangster rap, kids listen to it and they are like hell yeh i'm a gangster and nobody messes with gangsters, you better watch out.

And when you look behind the curtains, 90% of rappers are not bad asses, it's all just a fake image to sell more records.

I'll never forget what a friend told me when we were about 12 years old, he was the most popular kid in school and we both listened to metal, he told me it's all just image, they arn't bad asses and they don't do the things they sing about.

It was a small shock for me at that age, like when you find out wrestling is fake, he always seemed to be slightly ahead of his time(on social aspects) and he was right, while everyone was trying to work out who biggest bad ass in metal was and so on he knew it was mostly fake but played along.

Another person also once told me that the music you listen to reflects who you are and i'm not saying its true but i did think about it for years after.

Though there are many reasons we listen to different kinds of music and not ONLY just what resonates with us, OSIT.

 

[abstract]

I'm really enjoying this thread. Such good insight.

 

[Tigersoap]

Black metal has always been a magnet for the lost, weak and waiting for a revenge kind of people.
Not that it is a bad thing because it can probably help to go through a disintegration stage that is needed, at least for a while, but amongst those who stick to the whole look and ideas for more than a few adolescent years, there will and has been pathological (born or made) individuals.
It cannot be otherwise as this genre deals with the "darker side" of humanity.
It attracts people looking for another answer given by the "official" religion or the mainstream media.

As far as I know the beginning of the black metal scene is pretty grim

Vikernes was in prison for the murder of Euronymous, former guitarist of Mayhem, as well as the arson of several churches in Norway. During his time in prison, Vikernes has recorded two albums in a dark ambient style. They were released as Dauði baldrs (1997) and Hliðskjálf (1999).

source : _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burzum

Mayhem is a Norwegian black metal band formed in 1984[2] in Oslo, Norway. They are regarded as one of the pioneers of the influential Norwegian black metal scene. Mayhem's career has been highly controversial, primarily due to the suicide of vocalist Dead, murder of guitarist Euronymous, and their violent stage performances.

source :_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayhem_(band)

Just to quote the most known examples, I haven't followed the current scene for years.

But I would not either say that all fans of black and heavy music are "bad" persons, most of the time, it's the contrary.
The problem is that the ideas conveyed, especially in Black metal/Death metal are influencing your vision of the world, and not for the best like Franco or Chien anadolu (andalou maybe :D).

There a nonetheless very heavy connections between black metal, industrial music and satanism, far right, Crowley, bondage and so on.
It's all a tangled web.
It's just more apparent and visually recognizable most of the time.

Ricky Martin or Britney Spears are also pretty black metal to me, they just don't look or sound the part.

Check any kind of music style, there will be people who display heavy psychopathic traits (Laurel canyon comes to mind), the music style could be super soft but the person itself coud be very very despicable.

My two metal cents.

 

[un chien anadolu]

The problem is that the ideas conveyed, especially in Black metal/Death metal are influencing your vision of the world, and not for the best like Franco or Chien anadolu (andalou maybe :D).

anadolu is correct :)

There a nonetheless very heavy connections between black metal, industrial music and satanism, far right, Crowley, bondage and so on.

I didn't want to mention that because I think it's a hoax and disinfo created by mainstream media whilst the real satanists most probably has no interest (maybe even hate) in rock music. Maybe some imitating teenagers only. And when it comes to Crowley, well I am really sorry to say that but many classic rock bands/figures are in the front line. Music from Led Zeppelin has always been one of my favorites but especially Jimmy Page is very obsessed with Crowley. He even owned one of Crowley's houses in Scotland. Also it is said that he owns the second largest collection of Crowley's books in the world. But well who does not love "stairway to heaven" or "who lotta love".

 

[Azoth]

I agree with Franco's opening line. We know about the origins of the genre to.

I can only say this is so many ways. I like the phrasing of the melodies, the double bass, tremolo picking, screeching... I don't care if the genre was called polka dork bubble gum hip hop pseudo metal. I play the stuff myself and enjoy the way the strings are approached. There's heavy european/spanish influences.
I don't care if they sung about Jesus or cassiopaeans.... as long as the vox does it right.
It's style. Theater. Then you leave the theater....

 

[Tigersoap]

I didn't want to mention that because I think it's a hoax and disinfo created by mainstream media whilst the real satanists most probably has no interest (maybe even hate) in rock music. Maybe some imitating teenagers only.

Yes and no, I think there are links but the mainstream media will use this as an obvious scapegoat, which does not stigmatize these genre of music but helps them gain a new audience because it's "so dark and forbidden".
I even think any news putting black metal (or another similar genre) in a bad light is actually a good news for them.

In January 1998 Fabio Tollis and Chiara Marino, both just 16, disappeared.
They had been drinking at a pub called the Midnight - the centre of the heavy metal scene in Milan - and they never came home.
The police and many of their friends just thought they had run off together. But their parents refused to accept this.
Michele Tollis, Fabio's father, began to attend metal concerts and festivals across Europe, handing out leaflets and quizzing Fabio's friends.
Fabio and his friends were into the most extreme forms of heavy metal music - death metal and black metal, music obsessed with images of murder and satanism - and the role of this music is central to the story.

_http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/4446342.stm

That's the kind of publicity the genre gets, when you sing about death and other horrible things, I think it's pretty easy to guess that it's going to influence certain people and I have been listening to all kind of extreme music so I know this is not enough to drive people to kill someone.

There are two books I have read a long time ago which were quite interesting :

Lords of Chaos: The Bloody Rise of the Satanic Metal Underground by Didrik Soderlind and Michael Moynihan
(_http://feralhouse.com/titles/music/lords_of_chaos.php)

and another one I am struggling to keep recalling the name, which was examining the whole scene related to Satanism.

It's probably a satanism of facade for most people, although some figurhead involved can be quite pathological in their attitudes,
it's all linked when you check the bio of Michael Moynihan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Moynihan_(journalist)) and Boyd Rice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyd_Rice) for example.
You don't have to dig deep (at first glance), they are quite happy with how they are.

It's all about "might is right", Satanism and right wing ideologies.
I am not too good at following links but I guess it's connected to bigger things osit.

 

[Adaryn]

There a nonetheless very heavy connections between black metal, industrial music and satanism, far right, Crowley, bondage and so on.

I didn't want to mention that because I think it's a hoax and disinfo created by mainstream media whilst the real satanists most probably has no interest (maybe even hate) in rock music.

I don't necessarily agree. A lot of dark rock music (like dark folk and martial / neo pagan European music) seems to be well into all sorts of dark stuff: satanism mixed with northern myths / wicca / far right wing - verging on neo-nazism.
I used to listen to Death In June, being attracted to what I thought (at the time) was "artistic expression" . I thought their outfits (the masks, the artwork...) were just provocative for the sake of it. But reading more on these groups, checking interviews, etc., it seems rather clear there's more to it than just pure provocation, and for me, the constant ambiguity they keep about it is a way to say that they kind of mean what they sing.
I read an interview of Boyd Rice (mentionned by Tigersoap) and this guy sounds like a total psychopathic, woman-hater, filled with hatred jerk.

Edit: oh, and an interesting fact: Death in June seem to be Zionists. They used to display an Israeli flag on their site's homepage.

In June, 2004 I was invited to perform in Tel Aviv, the capital of Israel. Death In June did so to an enthusiastic audience of over 500 and there are even pictures of me on stage waving a ‘Totenkopf 6’ flag alongside an Israeli one.

_http://www.ikonenmagazin.de/rezension/Di6.htm

I am not too good at following links but I guess it's connected to bigger things osit.

Looking at their lyrics, imagery, heavy interests in esotericism, their names (World Serpent, the name of their distribution company, or bands like Sol Invictus, Mother destruction, Current 93, Blood axis, etc), the heavy focus on Northern myth, old European culture, etc, it might well be connected to bigger things indeed.

Check any kind of music style, there will be people who display heavy psychopathic traits (Laurel canyon comes to mind), the music style could be super soft but the person itself coud be very very despicable.

Indeed. The movie Angel Heart comes to mind here (the story of a crooner who made a deal with Satan). Psychopathy can be found in any music style, just as psychopaths or pathologicals of all sorts can be found in any movie style (thinking of Polanski here - some nice movies but not such a nice man, apparently).

 

[Azoth]

Hello un chien anadolu. What does that mean?

I generally agree with your thoughts here. You seem to have been following this as long as I. (But) I go back to sabbath days and followed the morphing...
I had a video interview of this band and they (also) brought up the fact that they were Told what to do. All the dark cliches were foisted onto them.
This is why Lennon left his band. Once he Knew they were being used...
Other sites joke about this in saying Tavistok.

You are right about the lyrics of Some bands. I've got rare gems that go off on the positive sides of norse myth, nature, weather etc. Funny to, I've found that NS BM is definitely on the weak end. It sucks. Might be safe to say the genre is used by some.

But yes, it's also this reaction to the system - which many genres go on about.

It's like people; one band at a time. I think most of the problems here is due to corporate intervention. Or rather, the machinery behind the elite's social engineering agenda to divide and conquer minds.

I'm in it for the style and art. It just may be a reflection of my being a (tropical) five planet scorpio. Take cover.

And really, I can think of (all round accepted) music that's FAR more depressing. Ever hear Mario Lanza sing about lost love? That's as trajic as it gets! I couldn't stand it, never heard sadness brought to that extreme and was actually humbled (in his ability to convey). One example among a million.

But it's only natural for a discussion to go this way.

My original point was that I found it curious that, as far as I've found, it's obscure BM bands that put their better songs towards the end of the cd. Not always. And the other fact, as far as I'm concerned, was that this songs are classics, epics. Very well written and executed....even to my refined ears. It's surprisingly sophisticated. Meaning, it's Much better than mainstream's heroes' efforts.

There Are mostly juvenile bands here. But "bands" like Evilfeast are simply too sophisticated and talented to forgo.
I like the cover work to - of course, depending on the sophistication and theme. There's plenty of stuff I pass up simply because it has that childish look, obviously geared for kids.
Thankfully, the genre is larger that that.

Larger and more complex, like everything else.

Now, if anyone who plays can relate to the style I'm open for tips on technique or what have you. What I like doing is tremolo sweep picking arpeggios! Now that's a quick flick of the wrist.....

Of course, we know surf(ing) music of the 60's used tremolo picking. Those damn surf punks, nothing but trouble!!

Hmm, I'm right now thinking Vikings. Their ways or methods And sense of honor. I leave it tho.

In any case, we'd love to have a nice black Gothic Gibson SG. May a bag pipe to.

 

[agni]

Ricky Martin or Britney Spears are also pretty black metal to me

This makes me crack up :)

Pop scene is far more "black metal" than black metal itself !

I've been involved in black/doom/gothic metal in my teens, and still would listen good ole Falkenbach (folk black metal)

For the most part people I knew, who were involved in this kind of music (with an exception of certain individuals, who wanted to set rules & control the "movement"), were there for rebellion reasons against society, where kids were fed up with fakery in this world, and wanted to become opposite of that. A la - I don't want anything to do with this way of life, let's resist.

While enjoying this music, many people just wore a suit of image associated with satanism or black metal, as a defense mechanism. No one wants to deal with crazy people. And it worked, actually saved my life in one occasion. Most people I knew in this "movement" were actually very artistic, original people, who would not even hurt a fly, and could rely on each other, was very friendly environment. There were no fights in the group, despite the efforts of psychopaths who wanted everyone to confront to their views & rules. But they failed, since most of the people were there for the different reasons. In reality, beneath the image associated with such movement, there were quite high morals. No drinking (except for beer) no cheating on girls, no interest in materialism. Eventually pretty much everyone dumped satanism for Paganism & it became about getting close with nature, not industrial or technological way of life.

As to me, this kind of music was a reflection of state of our world - dark, mean, aggressive, but personally it does not serve me as an encouragement, rather fair display of reality. (wishful thinking, may be ?)

It's interesting, that there are some occasion where some black metal bands spit out some esoteric stuff here and there. Makes me wonder if there is some sort of "outer" creative influence, or it could be just pieces of truth mixed with lies. But on other side, I can see how it could be a result of misanthropic views of some artists.

Take the following black & death metal bands for an example:

Satyricon in "Mother North" sings:

"Mother north - how can they sleep while their beds are burning ?
Mother north - your fields are bleeding
Memories...The Invisible Wounds
pictures that enshrine your throne (gone?)
A Future benighted still they are blind
Pigeonhearted beings of flesh and blood
keeps closing their eyes for the dangers that threat...ourselves and our
nature
And that is why
they all enrage me"

Samael in "Slavocracy" sings:

"why so many would have to pay for just one man to stand his way
why so often no one denies primacy of one over others
is there not enough self-conciousness in everyone to make him real
haven't we all inside of us what makes a man worth being one
...
between a caesar and nothing there are planty of ways to be
life is full of differences and so should be society
hope is a fuel we get for free while fear demands security
so why are those two always used as if they were power tools
...
sleeping with eyes wide open while someone else is getting in charge
to lead the way in his own way
"

 

[John G]

I've been involved in black/doom/gothic metal in my teens, and still would listen good ole Falkenbach (folk black metal)... As to me, this kind of music was a reflection of state of our world - dark, mean, aggressive, but personally it does not serve me as an encouragement, rather fair display of reality.

That self-described "Love Metal" band HIM mentioned earlier is actually listed as Gothic Metal by Wikipedia,
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_metal

In the 21st century, gothic metal has moved towards the mainstream in Europe, particularly in Finland where groups such as The 69 Eyes, Entwine, HIM, Lullacry, Poisonblack and Sentenced have released hit singles or chart-topping albums.

It's kind of like to be good, you have to see the bad for what it is, you don't want to be "soul smashed" by it but you can't wishfully think it away either.

 

[agni]

I've been involved in black/doom/gothic metal in my teens, and still would listen good ole Falkenbach (folk black metal)... As to me, this kind of music was a reflection of state of our world - dark, mean, aggressive, but personally it does not serve me as an encouragement, rather fair display of reality.

That self-described "Love Metal" band HIM mentioned earlier is actually listed as Gothic Metal by Wikipedia,
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_metal

In the 21st century, gothic metal has moved towards the mainstream in Europe, particularly in Finland where groups such as The 69 Eyes, Entwine, HIM, Lullacry, Poisonblack and Sentenced have released hit singles or chart-topping albums.

It's kind of like to be good, you have to see the bad for what it is, you don't want to be "soul smashed" by it but you can't wishfully think it away either.

Hi Bluelamp, could you clarify, please ? I do not think I understand what you are trying to say.

 

[John G]

I've been involved in black/doom/gothic metal in my teens, and still would listen good ole Falkenbach (folk black metal)... As to me, this kind of music was a reflection of state of our world - dark, mean, aggressive, but personally it does not serve me as an encouragement, rather fair display of reality.

That self-described "Love Metal" band HIM mentioned earlier is actually listed as Gothic Metal by Wikipedia,
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_metal

In the 21st century, gothic metal has moved towards the mainstream in Europe, particularly in Finland where groups such as The 69 Eyes, Entwine, HIM, Lullacry, Poisonblack and Sentenced have released hit singles or chart-topping albums.

It's kind of like to be good, you have to see the bad for what it is, you don't want to be "soul smashed" by it but you can't wishfully think it away either.

Hi Bluelamp, could you clarify, please ? I do not think I understand what you are trying to say.

Agni, it's just the general idea that yes you want to see reality for what it is but you don't want it to overly terrify you or affect you negatively.

 

[agni]

Thanks Bluelamp, I see your point. I guess, also question of what to align self with comes into play.

 

[abstract]

If i can add in a though i've had just now, regarding all this.

In the first place, when i found metal, it was never, not once, about darkness or satan or yada yadda yadda. I loved the power of it, the intensity.
It didnt' matter what the lyrics were.

What metal did for me was take me to a far away place, like surging with energy in the throes of infinity. Basking in the lightning storm of electric guitars with the earthquake
of drums pounding away, shattering all limitation, the great thumping of the bass like coming from the deepest places of the universe.

It's always been about imagination, my approach towards music. Like that little short song I have on my youtube? When I finished it, i was listening back to the final track and found
myself imagining that i was riding through the desert in a dune buggy, just me and the sand and the wind. That's what it does for me. Metal stimulates my imagination in ways other music simply does not. It's not always about being filled with hatred for humanity, etc.

 

[Graalsword]

Megadeth also has some interesting lyrics talking about the state of the world and most especially what the pathocracy does in US

Megadeth - EndGame

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RHF_w4Genk (the video)

Attention! Attention!
All citizens are ordered to report to their District detention centers!
Do not return to your homes;
Do not contact anyone!
Do not use any cellular or GPS devices!
Surrender all weapons at once!
Attention! This way to the camps!

I woke up in a black FEMA box
Darkness was all around me, in my coffin
My dreams are all nightmares anymore
And this is what I dream every night

The Leader of the New World Order, the President of the United States
Has declared anyone now residing inside the US of A
Without the RFID chip, you're just an illegal alien
An enemy combatant of America, welcome to the New World Order

This is the end of the road; this is the end of the line
This is the end of your life; this is the...

A society in a society, inside the fence life as you know it stops
They got their rules of conduct and we got ours
Be quick or be dead, you crumble up and die, the clock is
Ticking so slowly and so much can happen in an hour

This is the end of the road; this is the end of the line
This is the end of your life; this is the Endgame

I learned my lessons the hard way, every scar I earned
I had to bleed, inside the day yard
A system of controlled movement, like a giant ant farm
Any time is long time, now you're not in charge of your time anymore

This is the end of the road; this is the end of the line
This is the end of your life; this is the end

The Ex-President signed a secret bill that can
Land a legal US Citizen in jail and the
Patriot act stripped away our constitutional rights
They say a Concentration camp just popped up, yeah, right!
Refuse the chip? Ha! Get persecute and beat by the
Tyranny of Mind control, for the mark of the beast
All rights removed, you're punished captured, and enslaved
Believe me when I say, "This IS the Endgame!"