Helping others and networking

[treesparrow]

Maybe a test of intent can help, that before posting or speaking we review and ask of ourselves: Is my intention here primarily sharing/helping others, or is it mostly only for myself? Who benefits?

Minor quibble here perhaps?

Maybe it's not so straightforward as that statement might suggest. It seems to be offering a strict dichotomy in the choice between (mostly) helping self or others. (Black and white thinking?)

I think it's quite possible to post with the intention of seeking selfish assistance for oneself and of that request and any replies offered inadvertently benefiting others.

(Although I agree that some posts may very well be, say, some form of unconscious or conscious self-aggrandisement).

In short, the two notions - mainly helping others or self are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

If someone posts anything, can they ever really know if it's mostly for the benefit of self or others? (Like for example, this missive?)

We're all STS here, so there's always likely to be an element of selfish interest involved ( even if small) or so I think.

 

[obyvatel]

[quote author=treesparrow]
In short, the two notions - mainly helping others or self are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
[/quote]

Yes, this is correct by my understanding.

[quote author=treesparrow]
If someone posts anything, can they ever really know if it's mostly for the benefit of self or others? (Like for example, this missive?)
[/quote]

Taking this post as an example, you are raising a question and offering your perspective. It is likely to benefit self and others.

Like Odyssey wrote earlier, the idea is not to second guess oneself and one's motivations. People who tend to do that are in the first category I alluded to in my original post and they are better off working on the line of force of posting more and seeing how it goes.

What one writes and how one writes is an important element here and pertains to skill. One does not have to write as if he/she is imparting pearls of wisdom to others all the time. Raising questions, bringing one's perspective into the discussion are valuable for learning.

At the same time, asking the question that Alada brought up about intention check is useful. It is more likely to help members who are not paralyzed by hesitation to post, but can occasionally fall into responding somewhat automatically. I have observed that I can fall into such a state. It is more likely to happen when I am tired or otherwise stressed for different reasons. So before posting, taking a moment to consider what I am writing is intended to help others and not finding an avenue to vent my issues on an unwitting target. If I need to bring up issues, I have the opportunity to be honest about it and post it in an appropriate context.

Hope it makes things at least a little bit clearer.

 

[Voyageur]

[quote author=Alada]
The more we can learn to resist inaction, begin helping others and networking where we can, the more we can change our paths I think.

I agree with the principle. For people who tend to get paralyzed by a fear of putting themselves out there, this is the line of force to work on.

Like a stick has two ends, there is another side to this too. The following should not be under consideration for people of the type mentioned above - those who are shy/scared and fall into bystander apathy .

But there is another type who jump in on others' issues to relieve themselves of their own internal pressures. The driving force of participation is not really helping others though the suggestions provided are often helpful. Here, the dynamic can be seeking validation from others or other motivations which lead to a sort of social impulsivity. On the negative side, we see people piling on someone else who is down and has already been chastised to throw in their two cents (or punches?) in the guise of expressing outrage but perhaps releasing some pent up frustration in their own lives. So these dynamics are to watch out for as well.

When moving in to help others, intention is not enough, skills are necessary too. In a real situation where someone is choking and dying, one needs to call emergency services and then, if they have the skills, move in to provide first aid. Holding the sufferer's hands is not likely to be of much benefit other than perhaps making oneself feel good that "at least I did something". So, if anyone is inclined to help others in this type of situation, getting certified in first aid by taking the proper training can be considered. In the US, Red Cross does such day courses. There are perhaps others as well. Similarly in other countries similar institutions exist. They may be quite ponerized, or not, but the aim here is to learn something which may be of benefit to others.

In emotional distress type situations, showing the other person that someone is there who is witness to the suffering, and metaphorically or literally "holding hands" can be the proper response. Knowing what is the proper response in a situation is a skill that needs constant effort in terms of both knowledge input and practice.

OSIT
[/quote]

The highlighted or underlined parts struck accord. Stepping back from a situation or stepping into a situation each has influences, so this is good to think about and as you say, to observe oneself (never easy) and practice.

 

[flashgordonv]

The issues I struggle with in regard to posting are multiple. First, do I have anything worthwhile to say. Second, am I being judgmental here and off the mark. Third, Will I be chastised for posting noise or inappropriate sentiments. When I get past that and post, I find myself waiting with anticipation to see if anyone else notices, agrees, disagrees -have I been validated? it is all a bit of a psychological train wreck in many ways - so many little programs running when all one wants too do is contribute to a conversation and hopefully add some value

 

[Alada]

Maybe a test of intent can help, that before posting or speaking we review and ask of ourselves: Is my intention here primarily sharing/helping others, or is it mostly only for myself? Who benefits?

Minor quibble here perhaps?

Maybe it's not so straightforward as that statement might suggest. It seems to be offering a strict dichotomy in the choice between (mostly) helping self or others. (Black and white thinking?)

I think it's quite possible to post with the intention of seeking selfish assistance for oneself and of that request and any replies offered inadvertently benefiting others.

(Although I agree that some posts may very well be, say, some form of unconscious or conscious self-aggrandisement).

In short, the two notions - mainly helping others or self are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

If someone posts anything, can they ever really know if it's mostly for the benefit of self or others? (Like for example, this missive?)

We're all STS here, so there's always likely to be an element of selfish interest involved ( even if small) or so I think.

Yes true, thanks for flagging it! There are times, where we need to make a "I need some help/advice with..." kind of post. Trying to find ways to describe things in general terms seems tricky, and perhaps not useful. As you say that makes it look like a black and white choice which wasn't the intention. :O

Maybe it would be better to remember the law of 3 as another way to check and balance: There is 'good', there is 'bad', and there are the specific circumstances that determine which is which.

 

[Oxajil]

The issues I struggle with in regard to posting are multiple. First, do I have anything worthwhile to say. Second, am I being judgmental here and off the mark. Third, Will I be chastised for posting noise or inappropriate sentiments.

If you do, then the only way to know is by getting feedback, and then you learn how to do it differently next time. If you hold off on posting, then you won't know at all, and you won't be able to learn in this regard. Of course, it helps to re-read your post and to try to look at it from a different perspective, see if it'd be helpful, before you post it.

There can be slip-ups or situations when you think "Geez, it would've been better if I didn't post that" or "I could've said it in a different way", but you learn and try again. :) Easier said than done, though!

When I get past that and post, I find myself waiting with anticipation to see if anyone else notices, agrees, disagrees -have I been validated? it is all a bit of a psychological train wreck in many ways - so many little programs running when all one wants too do is contribute to a conversation and hopefully add some value

Even if nobody responds, there have been many times when people read a post and think it's helpful. There are also lurkers that read posts that are helpful to them in some way, and sometimes even encourage them to sign up and join the discussion or others. Hope this helps a bit. For what it's worth, I haven't replied to your posts in the tobacco thread for example, but I remember reading some of them and finding them interesting.

 

[Woodsman]

Even if nobody responds, there have been many times when people read a post and think it's helpful. There are also lurkers that read posts that are helpful to them in some way, and sometimes even encourage them to sign up and join the discussion or others. Hope this helps a bit. For what it's worth, I haven't replied to your posts in the tobacco thread for example, but I remember reading some of them and finding them interesting.

This is certainly true of me. I have read many, many posts without responding to them, and often think a silent, "Thank-you" every time I learn something (which is constantly) from the insights offered or even just the mode of expression used. There are a LOT of earnest and smart people here striving to be courteous and exacting and self-aware.

We must also remember that even if an idea seems plain or mundane to its author, that author is the holder of a unique and vital perspective in the universe, especially if they have been doing the work, which naturally causes them to differentiate from the template human. So long as a thought is earnestly considered and carries the external consideration required to be understandable to others, its very presence serves to channel power into the network, and further be magnified across hundreds of potential reader's minds, where it might chance to stimulate new thoughts and thus returned power. A true perpetual motion machine. Contrast that against keeping it locked up in just the author's own head.

 

[curious_richard]

This is certainly true of me. I have read many, many posts without responding to them, and often think a silent, "Thank-you" every time I learn something (which is constantly) from the insights offered or even just the mode of expression used. There are a LOT of earnest and smart people here striving to be courteous and exacting and self-aware.

I agree, same here. I appreciate the information. But I don't want to pollute threads with "me too!" posts that are empty of content. If I post, I want to add useful information.

 

[Alada]

This is certainly true of me. I have read many, many posts without responding to them, and often think a silent, "Thank-you" every time I learn something (which is constantly) from the insights offered or even just the mode of expression used. There are a LOT of earnest and smart people here striving to be courteous and exacting and self-aware.

I agree, same here. I appreciate the information. But I don't want to pollute threads with "me too!" posts that are empty of content. If I post, I want to add useful information.

Well again: There is 'good', there is 'bad', and there are the specific circumstances that determine which is which.

Posting "me too" posts constantly for it's own sake would be one thing, but adding to the discussion as (per your example above) can also add something. It most especially counts when threads are collecting data and discussing it. We don't always have to write reams of info in response, sometimes sharing with others that we think, or feel, or act in the same way (or we disagree/don't do etc), that in itself adds useful information.

It seems one of the problems we all face (or maybe it's just me ) is that we're generally terrified of others and what they will think. We're terrified of doing wrong, of making mistakes, of being embarrassed, of putting our foot in it, of admitting mistakes (in both the past, and especially the present), of being chastised, of being rejected, of being made a fool, of being regarded an idiot, and so on...

We all have these programs going on, it's how well we get to know them and how we deal with them which can make a difference. It's like buying a new laptop now. It'll come loaded with Windows 10, which folk will probably know is CONSTANTLY throwing up alerts, offers, warnings, auto-updates, while you're trying to do stuff, but what can you do?

Well, there are lots of good folk out there that share information about where the glitches are, how to work around them, or even figure out how to remove some of them all together. Now, say they have a forum to discuss how evil Windows is. If we arrive there and begin to share, others might notice something we're missing which can make the system yet better. They most likely only know this because they also have super-glitchy windows running too and know the errors well. And if you have Windows 10, they feel your pain.

So I think it's in the same spirit that we come to the thought of networking. We can share the bits of data we have, and maybe discover our glitches as we go. The times when I feel [insert any from the list above], have in the end been helpful. Sometimes it's uncomfortable, but it's not as uncomfortable as the thought of living forever trapped within the wheel of my programs.

I have Windows 10 ;)

Added: Thinking about this thread, and the way it's developed with everyone's feedback, maybe a better title would be: Networking, helping others and helping ourselves.

 

[Voyageur]

[...]
It seems one of the problems we all face (or maybe it's just me ) is that we're generally terrified of others and what they will think. We're terrified of doing wrong, of making mistakes, of being embarrassed, of putting our foot in it, of admitting mistakes (in both the past, and especially the present), of being chastised, of being rejected, of being made a fool, of being regarded an idiot, and so on...

We all have these programs going on, it's how well we get to know them and how we deal with them which can make a difference. It's like buying a new laptop now. It'll come loaded with Windows 10, which folk will probably know is CONSTANTLY throwing up alerts, offers, warnings, auto-updates, while you're trying to do stuff, but what can you do?

[..]
Added: Thinking about this thread, and the way it's developed with everyone's feedback, maybe a better title would be: Networking, helping others and helping ourselves.

Not just you, osit. The way you addressed this speaks to me also, which makes me think of a continuous refocusing on these things in ones own reality - and having faith. And this is the thing of the work, this remembering.

I think your suggesting for a name changes works. :)

 

[Alada]

Not just you, osit. The way you addressed this speaks to me also, which makes me think of a continuous refocusing on these things in ones own reality - and having faith. And this is the thing of the work, this remembering.

Glad it's not just me! :) I agree, constant focus, vigilance and a little faith help. The thing is, at least initially, we focus to recognize in ourselves that these thinking and feeling habits exist, then, once we have verified for ourselves what and where some of them are, we're far better placed to do what we always wished we could, even while our programs are running and doing their job of inducing inertia.

It's so very often the little things, like working on such habits, which can add up to make a big difference in the end. Worth remembering with that thought though, that the difference can take effect both in a negative or positive direction, so we really have to pay attention to the little things I think. It changes where we go.

 

[RedFox]

The issues I struggle with in regard to posting are multiple. First, do I have anything worthwhile to say. Second, am I being judgmental here and off the mark. Third, Will I be chastised for posting noise or inappropriate sentiments. When I get past that and post, I find myself waiting with anticipation to see if anyone else notices, agrees, disagrees -have I been validated? it is all a bit of a psychological train wreck in many ways - so many little programs running when all one wants too do is contribute to a conversation and hopefully add some value

Well, me too. And to a greater or lesser extend probably most forum members.

Like a stick has two ends, there is another side to this too. The following should not be under consideration for people of the type mentioned above - those who are shy/scared and fall into bystander apathy .

But there is another type who jump in on others' issues to relieve themselves of their own internal pressures. The driving force of participation is not really helping others though the suggestions provided are often helpful. [..]
In emotional distress type situations, showing the other person that someone is there who is witness to the suffering, and metaphorically or literally "holding hands" can be the proper response. Knowing what is the proper response in a situation is a skill that needs constant effort in terms of both knowledge input and practice.

Without the checks and balances, it can be easy to bounce from one end of the stick to the other. Never actually knowing what the right responce is, or learning from the interaction.

It seems one of the problems we all face (or maybe it's just me ) is that we're generally terrified of others and what they will think. We're terrified of doing wrong, of making mistakes, of being embarrassed, of putting our foot in it, of admitting mistakes (in both the past, and especially the present), of being chastised, of being rejected, of being made a fool, of being regarded an idiot, and so on...

Ditto that. And those sorts of things are what makes me bounce between the two ends of the stick.
It seems to be working out how to find balance between the two allows you to get past the block on not posting, and just posting to relieve the pressure. I'm still not entirely sure how to do that well yet, sometimes I just want an instruction manual!
I guess how we see/what we feel about making mistakes, as well as sharing them has a lot to do with it.
We can't fully connect to others and really begin to learn what our faults are if we are forever bouncing back and forth because of the above thoughts/feelings.

Empathy with strangers can be learned

We can learn to empathize with strangers. Surprisingly positive experiences with people from another group trigger a learning effect in the brain, which increases empathy. As researchers from the University of Zurich reveal, only a handful of positive learning experiences already suffice for a person to be-come more empathic.

Conflicts between people from different nationalities and cultures often stem from a lack of empathy or compassion for 'the stranger'. More empathy for members of other groups could thus encourage peaceful coexistence. A study conducted by the University of Zurich examined whether empathy with strangers can be learned and how positive experiences with others influence empathic brain responses.

Surprising behavior influences learning

Psychologist and neuroscientist Grit Hein teamed up with Philippe Tobler, Jan Engelmann and Marius Vollberg to measure brain activation in participants who had had positive experiences with a member of their own group (in-group member) or another group (out-group member). During the test, the participants expected to re-ceive painful shocks to the backs of their hands. However, they also discovered that a member of their own or another group could pay money to spare them pain. The brain activation while observing pain in a person from one's own or another group was recorded before and after these experiences.

At the beginning of the study, the stranger's pain triggered a weaker brain activation in the participant than if a member of his or her own group was affected. However, only a handful of positive experiences with someone from the stranger's group led to a significant increase in empathic brain responses if pain was inflicted on a different person from the out-group. The stronger the positive experience with the stranger was, the greater was the increase in neuronal empathy.

The increased empathic brain response for the out-group is driven by a neuronal learning signal that develops through surprisingly positive experiences with a stranger. "These results reveal that positive experiences with a stranger are transferred to other members of this group and increase the empathy for them," says Hein.

Even if we don't have the skills to really know how to help others or even ourselves, reaching out honestly as best we can is a good first step I think.
As long as we engage in external considering, take our time, and just post something.

 

[Alada]

Without the checks and balances, it can be easy to bounce from one end of the stick to the other. Never actually knowing what the right responce is, or learning from the interaction.

[...]

It seems to be working out how to find balance between the two allows you to get past the block on not posting, and just posting to relieve the pressure. I'm still not entirely sure how to do that well yet, sometimes I just want an instruction manual!

Sometimes when it's like that I think it's okay, and maybe even better, to sit on a post and wait, hold back if there is doubt or just a feeling that something isn't quite right. Our inner state can change greatly from day to day (which is part of the problem), so holding off even for a day or so can show you that: Yes, this post/thought/feeling is silly, I'll put that to one side and explore what was going on in myself there. Or, you come back to a thought and see that it is actually reasonable, where there was uncertainty before.

In my experience at least, problems and glitches can stem very often from negative emotions, and the thoughts that can spring from them. To talk very generally, that end of the stick can tend to have a certain feel or 'taste' to it. It's the first clue I think that it might be better to hold fire, at least until we're sure we have a much firmer grip on the reigns.

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

Thanks for initiating this thread Alada . . . and for all the responses you've all given that help me & others to more clearly see where we each have various programs and considerations that we can and sometimes do use which can thwart our own Work and networking.

One consideration I have sometimes is when I foresee that I may not be able to make time to respond to any replies given to my posts or replies. And that consideration can make me forego posting. Alternatively, I could simply add to my post that I may not be able to respond in a timely manner - and that I will attempt to do so when I can.

I can see, also, that many concerns others have mentioned are my own concerns as well. But these concerns remind me that we're all in class and we're all learning lessons of 3D. And we've chosen to learn these lessons using Networking as a method of doing that Work.

And it should be obvious to me by now that the members of this Forum are extremely courteous and not desiring to create flame wars or dissension -- so it's ok to goof or make mistakes or post noise occasionally and have that pointed out to me.

It's also probably a better idea for me not to project onto others what they may or may not think or say to my posts. I'm usually surprised at the responses I receive - so obviously my projections are wrong anyway.

 

[Azur]

Without the checks and balances, it can be easy to bounce from one end of the stick to the other. Never actually knowing what the right responce is, or learning from the interaction.

[...]

It seems to be working out how to find balance between the two allows you to get past the block on not posting, and just posting to relieve the pressure. I'm still not entirely sure how to do that well yet, sometimes I just want an instruction manual!

Sometimes when it's like that I think it's okay, and maybe even better, to sit on a post and wait, hold back if there is doubt or just a feeling that something isn't quite right. Our inner state can change greatly from day to day (which is part of the problem), so holding off even for a day or so can show you that: Yes, this post/thought/feeling is silly, I'll put that to one side and explore what was going on in myself there. Or, you come back to a thought and see that it is actually reasonable, where there was uncertainty before.

In my experience at least, problems and glitches can stem very often from negative emotions, and the thoughts that can spring from them. To talk very generally, that end of the stick can tend to have a certain feel or 'taste' to it. It's the first clue I think that it might be better to hold fire, at least until we're sure we have a much firmer grip on the reigns.

Quite right. I've never been eloquent in expressing feelings or what I see, via the written word. I imagine it's hard for most people, too.

How many people read a post and get one impression, and then sometime after, read it again and get something else out of it that they didn't see the first time?

Happens to me a lot when I revisit posts. So there's also a filter/program at work when reading and posting.

Thanks, Alada.