Hemochromatosis and Autoimmune Conditions

[Gawan]

Shouldn't my Glucose, Serum level be at zero? It's at 96 mg/dL (it's the first time that I had my glucose checked), which made me think I've been consuming sugar lately without knowing about it (since I've only been eating meats with a few veggie - could be that Pork Rind thing). I'm gotta have to look into it (added: and going back to reading the health books on this).

Absolutely not, your glucose is perfectly normal. From a diabetic point of view: The glucose should neither be too low (about 45mg/dl) nor too high (like 400mg/dl). Above or below both ranges can be dangerous and your body would show symptoms too. Like too low: shaking, sweating and ravenous hunger to get sugar inside your body to raise the level again. Also in your liver is naturally glucagon stored and is the counterpart of insulin. Also when in ketosis proteins get transformed into glucose via gluconeogenesis if I remember it correctly.

 

[l apprenti de forgeron]

Another way to thin the blood is "earthing". That is walking barefeet on (if possible) wet ground - best is walking along the beach. The mechanism is that the body absorbs negative charge which in turn charges red blood cells negatively as well, so that they repulse themselves. So barefeet it is, preferrably on wet ground, concrete works, but not very well, wood, plastic etc doesn't ...

Apparently it works as good as pharmacological blood thinning ...

There's an article from Dr. Mercola describing this method here: _http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/04/29/james-oschman-on-earthing.aspx

Very interesting, thank you!

 

[Zadius Sky]

From my understanding glucose levels should stay in the recommended range even during ketosis so you shouldn't worry about that. Very low glucose levels are actually bad as they would indicate signs of hypoglycemia. Just my 2 cents.

Absolutely not, your glucose is perfectly normal. From a diabetic point of view: The glucose should neither be too low (about 45mg/dl) nor too high (like 400mg/dl). Above or below both ranges can be dangerous and your body would show symptoms too. Like too low: shaking, sweating and ravenous hunger to get sugar inside your body to raise the level again. Also in your liver is naturally glucagon stored and is the counterpart of insulin. Also when in ketosis proteins get transformed into glucose via gluconeogenesis if I remember it correctly.

Thank you both for your responses. This proves how ignorant I am on that. I'm not on KD and waiting until I get my own place, so I would focus on that diet with depth in reading.

I remembered my mother telling me that I may be at risk of being diabetic (and I should check my glucose levels) because the history of her side of the family (every single relative is obese and had heart attacks and are diabetics) while my father's side had a history of pneumonia or other flus (to which my grandparents and great-grandparents died of) and very slim-looking. This brought to my thinking about the glucose levels.

 

[l apprenti de forgeron]

I don't know if it is this one: "Detox with oral Chelation David Jay Brown & Garry Gordon, M.D." but it contains no clear protocol (or I coulnd't find one) and concentrates mainly on EDTA but also mentions other chelators such as DMSA. At least Laura mentioned to have the following other stuff available and which should be taken before starting the chelation.:

* Alpha lipoic acid
* Chromium picoinate
* Selenium
* Zinc
* Potassium (low dose)
* Niacin (low dose)
* Magnesium
* a general mulitvitamin without iron
* Copper

WRONG!!!!

You do take the alpha lipoic acid WITH the chelator and during the remineralization, but you do NOT take the minerals before chelation nor close afterward or you will take up the binding capacity of the chelator with the easily available minerals you have just paid money for instead of the chelator extracting the heavy metals from your tissues!!!!

PLEASE READ CAREFULLY!!!

I'm a moron! I did that. Always do everything wrong!
Remember I told you about the vaccine "anti-age" for my father?. Well, I tried to give the example for my father, but that vaccine had no EDTA!. I do not know if the doctor advised me wrong or I did not understand, but the fact is that I received two of these vaccines full of antioxidants (such as vitamin b. But luckily in the middle made ​​a donation to lose iron). this last happens at day 18th, when I turned 31.
Anyway, also, after the second vaccination was given pills with alpha lipoic acid and zinc, etc.) and I started having serious panic attacks (with arrhythmias like logos5x5, but every day since a weak). The terror level is very high (I figured it must be something like being in the room with the reptiles prior dismemberment). I also thought that cleaning the bones, the bones can act as a type of "Lethbridge stones" as they bring terror to death that I have from early childhood, when my sister died, they were very submerged emotions. So, I take clonazepam. You believe that these panic attacks may be a zinc poisoning?
Yesterday I made a first round Calcium EDTA, and tomorrow I hope to do another (not achieving buy those drugs where I live, I go to the same private doctor).

 

[Gaby]

Shouldn't my Glucose, Serum level be at zero? It's at 96 mg/dL (it's the first time that I had my glucose checked), which made me think I've been consuming sugar lately without knowing about it (since I've only been eating meats with a few veggie - could be that Pork Rind thing). I'm gotta have to look into it (added: and going back to reading the health books on this).

You will enjoy reading "Deep Nutrition: Why Your Genes Need Traditional Food" written by Catherine Shanahan

_http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Nutrition-Your-Genes-Traditional/dp/0615228380

In the keto diet, low blood glucose levels are tolerated without low sugar symptoms: anxiety, mood swings, etc. That is one of the beauties of the diet. Stable fuel supply in the forms of fats allows only the necessary glucose in your bloodstream.

There is a study done in men where it showed that those with fasting blood sugar levels above 86 are at increased risk of cardiovascular events:

Men with fasting glucose levels over this level may have up to a 40 percent increase in risk of death from cardiovascular disease [Bjørnholt JV, Erikssen G, et al. Fasting blood glucose: an underestimated risk factor for cardiovascular death. Results from a 22-year follow-up of healthy nondiabetic men. Diabetes Care. 1999 Jan;22(1):45-9.]

This is why some consider the optimal range between 70 and 85 mg/dL. But if you are doing the diet correctly, I wouldn't sweat over those numbers. Blood sugar can go up at fasting levels due to stress.

On the keto diet, I had 70 after eating bacon and eggs. Then, I had an 85 or so in fasting, probably due to stress or perhaps the coffee or some added carbs I had on the days previous to that.

Stress does cause your sugar levels to go up.

 

[Zadius Sky]

Thanks, Psyche. I haven't had a chance to get or read Deep Nutrition. I have to wait a while before I buy anything. It's now on the top of the list.

Yesterday as same time as my blood taken, you could say my stress went through the roof... ;)

I did an EE last night, though.

 

[nicklebleu]

Shouldn't my Glucose, Serum level be at zero?

Definitely not! If glucose levels were zero, you would be dead, and unconscious well before zero - just ask any diabetic person about low blood sugars ...

The body will always produce some glucose, even if you don't consume one sugar molecule at all, because some organs (most notably red blood cells and partially the brain as well) absolutely need glucose, whithout which they don't function. If you don't eat any sugar, the body will produce this tiny amount needed by splitting up some aminoacids and rearranging them into glucose.

Also looks like you are in an optimum zone with your iron panel, as well as with the rest of the tests.

As to the question of EDTA: because EDTA has so many more effects than just lowering iron (like lowering lead and other toxic heavy metals), I would definitely continue it - I myself am planning to pretty much continue EDTA for the rest of my life - unless new data emerges which counters what we know today.

Of course you will have to have an eye on your mineral levels (not just iron) and if needed you might have to replace them. So over time it might ironically become necessary to supplement iron as well. As a general rule, as long as your hemoglobind doesn't drop (in the abscence of any blood loss) your iron stores are adequate, if suddenly the Hb starts to drop and you have low ferritin and low iron sats, then you might need to take a bit of iron on board. My guess however is that we normally ingest plenty of iron to maintain good levels, if they are low, I would as a first measure reintroduce vitamin C, which helps absorb iron from food, and only if that didn't work, would I actually ingest supplemental iron (which would be unneccessary in most cases).

Hope that helps!

 

[herondancer]

Got my results back from a panel done three weeks after donating blood. They are in units I am having trouble understanding, so if anyone can help, that would be great.

Ferritin SERPL-MCNC 78 ug/L 13-150 (last column is given as normal ranges)
Iron 11 umol/L 7-26
Iron SATN SFR SERPL 20% 20-50
TIBC 54 umol/L 46-73

I don't have a family doctor in Canada, so I went to the town clinic and said that my mother in the States had been diagnosed and all the kids were getting tested. Surprisingly, he had some familiarity with hemochromatosis and willingly wrote the lab order. The gal who drew the blood actually has it! Going over it today, he said that I was just fine, but maybe a little anaemic. If I'm reading the numbers correctly, the ferritin level is still at least 28 points too high by IOD standards. I will be able to donate blood again mid-July but the nearest centre is about 5.5 hours away. Going the chelation route without being able to monitor the levels makes me nervous.

Does anyone know of lab services in Canada that doesn't need a doctor to order the test? :)

 

[Voyageur]

Does anyone know of lab services in Canada that doesn't need a doctor to order the test? :)

Not that i've found, yet perhaps this link _http://tests.lifelabs.com/Chemistry/I/IRON/TIBC/_PERCENT_SATURATION.aspx?s=1 & this link to their home page _http://www.lifelabs.com/Lifelabs_ON/Search/results.asp?cx=009867269832713571715%3Arkh3dzwslqs&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&q=iron+levels&sa=Search - is a possibility - one would need to call them.

It says BC & Ontario and there is a number for elsewhere in Canada. One thing, i think this is the same company who just lost a computer with thousands of personal records of patients - yup, they are the ones _http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/06/24/bc-lifelabs-kamloops.html

Good luck.

 

[sitting]

Of course, if you have high ferritin and high SI, I would say to go straight for the donation routine to unload at least one batch as quickly as possible!

Hi Mr. Scott,

I've followed this thread and the evidence suggest no serious argument with the above. A dangerously high level and you must relieve...like immediately.

But reading your other posts, I also sensed a little hesitation. And not simply from a fear of needles. :)

It seems you're looking earnestly for alternatives as well. Workouts, inositol, etc. Am I correct in sensing something inside you that's saying maybe..."not so fast"?

FWIW, something inside me is saying this. That maybe there's more to it than just relieving iron levels. I think it's ingrained from Taoist tradition. Chi moves the blood...and the blood nourishes the chi. Repeated 10% loss may carry a range of consequences. I just feel an intuitive discomfort about this. But I could be totally wrong.

One obvious question is "what other vital nutrients or vital force is being drained off in the process"...besides the iron? And is that loss important? Those in the medical profession can perhaps answer this far better than I can.

As the list of participants is growing, would it be a good idea to include this topic in the next round of questions for the C's? Like "are there other factors we need to be mindful of"? And "what exactly is the protective role of iron in the turbulent times ahead"?


BTW, I thought long and hard...before making this post. It's not intended to stir controversy. It's an effort to learn more and hope it is viewed as such.

PS At the risk of being intrusive, I like to ask Ark for his view on this topic as well.

 

[Zadius Sky]

Thank you, nicklebleu, for your post.

As to the question of EDTA: because EDTA has so many more effects than just lowering iron (like lowering lead and other toxic heavy metals), I would definitely continue it - I myself am planning to pretty much continue EDTA for the rest of my life - unless new data emerges which counters what we know today.

Thanks, I'll keep taking it. I've found that after taking it on an empty stomach in the morning (and I didn't eat until a few hours later), I get bursts of energy and becomes alert, and I didn't feel as "weighted down" as I used to.

 

[herondancer]

Does anyone know of lab services in Canada that doesn't need a doctor to order the test? :)

Not that i've found, yet perhaps this link _http://tests.lifelabs.com/Chemistry/I/IRON/TIBC/_PERCENT_SATURATION.aspx?s=1 & this link to their home page _http://www.lifelabs.com/Lifelabs_ON/Search/results.asp?cx=009867269832713571715%3Arkh3dzwslqs&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&q=iron+levels&sa=Search - is a possibility - one would need to call them.

It says BC & Ontario and there is a number for elsewhere in Canada. One thing, i think this is the same company who just lost a computer with thousands of personal records of patients - yup, they are the ones _http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/06/24/bc-lifelabs-kamloops.html

Good luck.

Thanks for the info. There is an office relatively close which does a lot of industrial drug testing. I'll give them a call today to see if they also do full blood panels. In the meantime I'll be reviewing the EDTA info. It seems that so long as the necessary minerals are being topped up, it's a pretty safe protocol.

 

[Chu]

I've been trying to find out more about the relationship between high ferritine/saturation levels, zinc, and possibly certain skin conditions like Verneuil, but not exclusively. I'm in touch with a doctor who is currently doing research on this topic, and apparently he would be willing to actually ask all his patients to test some of these parameters and perfom a real study. (More about him on this thread.) Anyway, does somebody have some more information concerning this, or would you be willing to dig up some more? That would be great! Anything you can find on how iron overload can affect the absorption of zinc, mainly, or how it relates to skin conditions, or the apocrine glands, IF there is anything available.

All I have are these two papers, and they don't actually add much not have very conclusive results, IMO:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9801930
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC502110/

And then these posts on this thread:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,20265.msg402790.html#msg402790
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,20265.msg402625.html#msg402625

Thanks! In the meantime, I'll do a more thorough search.

 

[Gaby]

I've been trying to find out more about the relationship between high ferritine/saturation levels, zinc, and possibly certain skin conditions like Verneuil, but not exclusively.

Here is a paper with some general info. There might be something of interest in the references:

Study on the levels of trace elements in mild and severe psoriasis.

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19383492

CONCLUSIONS:

There is a disturbance in the under-study element contents and also element-element interdependency in psoriasis serum when compared to controls.

Paper attached as a PDF.

 

[Gaby]

There might be some clues here, but I don't have access to that journal:

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18046481

Photochem Photobiol Sci. 2007 Dec;6(12):1268-74. Epub 2007 Sep 11.

Topical applications of iron chelators in photosensitization.

Juzeniene A, Juzenas P, Iani V, Moan J.

Source

Department of Radiation Biology, Institute for Cancer Research, Rikshospitalet-Radiumhospitalet Medical Center, The Norwegian Radium Hospital, Montebello, 0310 Oslo, Norway. asta.juzeniene@rr-research.no
Abstract

Generation of the reactive oxygen species (ROS) in skin by exposure to ultraviolet (UV) radiation induces a number of cutaneous pathologies such as skin cancer, photosensitization, and photoaging among others. Skin iron catalyzes UV generation of ROS. Topical application of iron chelators reduces erythema, epidermal and dermal hypertrophy, wrinkle formation, tumour appearance. It has been proposed that iron chelators can be useful agents against damaging effects of both short- and long-term UV exposure. A better understanding of the action mechanisms of iron chelators, might be useful to developing effective anticancer and antiphotoaging cosmetic products. Iron chelators may lead to accumulation of protoporphyrin IX (PpIX), a strong photosensitizer. The action of iron chelators in skin, related to PpIX increase has not yet been thoroughly studied. Therefore, we have investigated the formation of PpIX in normal mouse skin after topical application of creams containing metal chelators. The amount and distribution of porphyrins formed was determined by means of non-invasive fluorescence spectroscopy. Deferoxamine (DF), ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA), 1,2-diethyl-3-hydroxypyridin-4-one (CP94), but not meso-2,3-dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA), caused increased accumulation of endogenous porphyrins in the skin. Fluorescence excitation and emission spectroscopy confirmed that PpIX was the main fluorescent species. The amount of PpIX accumulated in skin under the present conditions was not large enough to produce any significant erythema after light exposure. Further studies are needed to evaluate the role of PpIX induced by iron chelators used, against photoaging and cancer prevention.