Hemochromatosis and Autoimmune Conditions

[Gaby]

Another thing that came to my mind, is that one night about 3 years ago, i suffered a very nasty arrhythmia event, i felt like if my hearth was going to stop suddenly. I had some irregular palpitations and minor arrhythmias prior and after this event. I ended up with a cardiologist that ran some analysis and measurements and told me that everything was just fine with my hearth . This arrhythmias hadn't affected me until a couple of months ago, but they are gone now. Maybe this can also be related to the iron issue?

Thank you for the update! The weight gain and the improvement in heart palpitations are really very good news! Now that your body is adjusting, perhaps the fatigue will get better.

I was surprised to read how patterns in the electrocardiogram that we have come to see as "normal variations" are more frequent in people with iron overload. Abnormal rhythms are also more frequent and it is good to hear they can stabilize with decantings.

I'm glad you found a way to decant steadily and fast. :)

 

[Oxajil]

I am using the same EDTA Gandalf, but decided to hold off a little until I get something like this: _http://www.swansonvitamins.com/trace-minerals-concentrace-trace-mineral-drops-8-fl-oz-liquid - ala Laura's recent post and protocol - to replace any trace minerals (like magnesium) that may also be chelated.

That's the one I got as well. It looks like a pretty good product, but it tastes awful! So just a heads up to anybody!
Guess it could be doable with some xylitol/stevia, or getting one with a flavor may be better.

 

[Regulattor]

I am using the same EDTA Gandalf, but decided to hold off a little until I get something like this: _http://www.swansonvitamins.com/trace-minerals-concentrace-trace-mineral-drops-8-fl-oz-liquid - ala Laura's recent post and protocol - to replace any trace minerals (like magnesium) that may also be chelated.

That's the one I got as well. It looks like a pretty good product, but it tastes awful! So just a heads up to anybody!
Guess it could be doable with some xylitol/stevia, or getting one with a flavor may be better.

I'm adding it in my broth/stock, it's tolerable that way.

 

[Galaxia2002]

Another thing that came to my mind, is that one night about 3 years ago, i suffered a very nasty arrhythmia event, i felt like if my hearth was going to stop suddenly. I had some irregular palpitations and minor arrhythmias prior and after this event. I ended up with a cardiologist that ran some analysis and measurements and told me that everything was just fine with my hearth . This arrhythmias hadn't affected me until a couple of months ago, but they are gone now. Maybe this can also be related to the iron issue?

Thank you for the update! The weight gain and the improvement in heart palpitations are really very good news! Now that your body is adjusting, perhaps the fatigue will get better.

I was surprised to read how patterns in the electrocardiogram that we have come to see as "normal variations" are more frequent in people with iron overload. Abnormal rhythms are also more frequent and it is good to hear they can stabilize with decantings.

I'm glad you found a way to decant steadily and fast. :)

Good News Logos! I definitely need to try donate, maybe that help me to gain some weight that I really need.

 

[3DStudent]

I'm a few pages behind, but want to update on a recent iron panel. I skimmed some of the recent postings regarding iron storage in the brain, making for symptoms of dizziness, cognitive decline, and mental issues. That is raising a flag for me as I've had some of those symptoms for some months now.

I thought it might by Lyme disease. I have an appointment with a Lyme doctor soon and will get blood work for that. But the iron may be playing a part at least. I have the supplements for some EDTA rounds, but haven't started yet. I'm taking Samento and Colloidal Silver for the Lyme symptoms, and maybe I'm just having Herxheimer reactions.

Here was my panel from early April:

Serum Iron: 65 ug/dL
TIBC: 259 ug/dL
UIBC: 196 ug/dL
Transferrin Sat: 19%
Ferritin: 192 ng/mL

And the end of May (just saw they only did ferritin):

Ferritin: 250 ng/mL

I guess I could have been inflamed, I did eat some grass fed butter during that period. And I cooked a half pound of bacon in a cast iron pan maybe twice. And I cooked a pound of lamb liver in a cast iron pan once. I haven't taken much vitamin C, a gram here and there, and usually between meals. So not sure if it can really go up 50 ng/mL in about a month and a half.

My doctor actually ordered the HH test with the previous blood work. No dice on a phlebotomy yet though . The test is for HH mutations C282Y, H63D, and S65C. I had negatives for them. It says that up to 90% of affected Caucasions will have a positive test result. But that there may be rare HH mutations or mutations in other ethnic groups.

Just wondering about the EDTA chelation: is taking it 30 minutes before breakfast enough time so that it doesn't chelate the food you eat?

 

[nicklebleu]

Just wondering about the EDTA chelation: is taking it 30 minutes before breakfast enough time so that it doesn't chelate the food you eat?

I think that given the poor absorption rate of EDTA chelating what is in the food and gut is actually one of the main benefits of oral chelation therapy - so in a word, 30 minutes is enough.

 

[Galaxia2002]

I'm a few pages behind, but want to update on a recent iron panel. I skimmed some of the recent postings regarding iron storage in the brain, making for symptoms of dizziness, cognitive decline, and mental issues. That is raising a flag for me as I've had some of those symptoms for some months now.

I thought it might by Lyme disease. I have an appointment with a Lyme doctor soon and will get blood work for that. But the iron may be playing a part at least. I have the supplements for some EDTA rounds, but haven't started yet. I'm taking Samento and Colloidal Silver for the Lyme symptoms, and maybe I'm just having Herxheimer reactions.

Here was my panel from early April:

Serum Iron: 65 ug/dL
TIBC: 259 ug/dL
UIBC: 196 ug/dL
Transferrin Sat: 19%
Ferritin: 192 ng/mL

And the end of May (just saw they only did ferritin):

Ferritin: 250 ng/mL

I guess I could have been inflamed, I did eat some grass fed butter during that period. And I cooked a half pound of bacon in a cast iron pan maybe twice. And I cooked a pound of lamb liver in a cast iron pan once. I haven't taken much vitamin C, a gram here and there, and usually between meals. So not sure if it can really go up 50 ng/mL in about a month and a half.

My doctor actually ordered the HH test with the previous blood work. No dice on a phlebotomy yet though . The test is for HH mutations C282Y, H63D, and S65C. I had negatives for them. It says that up to 90% of affected Caucasions will have a positive test result. But that there may be rare HH mutations or mutations in other ethnic groups.

Just wondering about the EDTA chelation: is taking it 30 minutes before breakfast enough time so that it doesn't chelate the food you eat?

I made some math and from 192 ng/ml to 250 there is 58 "new" ng of ferritin, that represents 0,38 mg of new ferritin in 45 days in your body. In Wikipedia in Spanish said that each microgram of ferritin/Liter represents 8-10 mg of iron stored. So doing the math it gives 0,46 g of new Iron stored in 45 days!!. That can't be in so little time!! at least you are absorbing at rate of 10 mg at day which is not normal, the normal is 1-2 mg at day. So, either you are really inflamed or for any reason other forms of iron are passing to transferrine form. Maybe you can repeat the test?

Here are the calculus:

58 ng/ml x (0.001 micrograms) = 0,058 micrograms/mL
from micrograms/ml to micrograms/L = 0,058 micrograms/mL x 1000 ml = 58 micrograms/L
58 micrograms/L x (8 mg/microgram) = 464 mg = 0,46 g

 

[Voyageur]

Had an intense day getting to the blood bank yesterday on time and almost canceled. Plane was late, and the taxi was blocked in traffic with time running out. I called them and they said they could give me an extra 15 minutes to get there, which was still not enough. So just sat back like if it happens then it happens, and somehow the driver, after me telling him where i needed to go and why, made great effort and did his thing weaving in and out of streets into the city and got me there just in the nick of time.

Giving blood is not a simple thing these days, and after many forms and questions, a pint was finally given. They said that 52 days needs to elapse before i can give again; so August it is.

I don't know how others feel doing this; it was my first time and realize people do this all the time, so it should not be a big deal, however, afterwords and even unto today, have been feeling like, i guess, emotional, like weeping, and at the same time calm and not sure why.

Looking at how others like 3D Student's ferritin levels have come down after decanting, i'll have to stick at this and add EDTA to get down to a good level.

 

[monotonic]

We have the Concentrace stuff. It would definitely be difficult to drink it all at once. I find that 10 drops to a glass results in an almost pleasant taste. Just drink more glasses? I doubt cavemen got all their minerals from one sip of water. I found that it gave an interesting flavor to different things.

We have a blood donation center nearby, but they require vaccines to be up to date. What do you do about that?

 

[fabric]

I got my results from the lab....

Iron: 24 umol/L (134 ug/dL)
UIBC: 29 umol/L (162 ug/dL)
TIBC: 53 umol/L (296 ug/dL)
Iron Sat: 45%
Ferritin: 259 ug/L

Looks like I'm outside the recommend range for Ferritin and iron saturation is on the high end so I'm going to see about donating some blood. I've got some EDTA on order and will try that as well and see how that goes.

One question, I've read that UIBC should be above 146... did they mean that to be in ug/dL or umol/L? If the latter that would be a little more concerning as that would be quite low!

 

[nicklebleu]

I got my results from the lab....

Iron: 24 umol/L (134 ug/dL)
UIBC: 29 umol/L (162 ug/dL)
TIBC: 53 umol/L (296 ug/dL)
Iron Sat: 45%
Ferritin: 259 ug/L

Looks like I'm outside the recommend range for Ferritin and iron saturation is on the high end so I'm going to see about donating some blood. I've got some EDTA on order and will try that as well and see how that goes.

One question, I've read that UIBC should be above 146... did they mean that to be in ug/dL or umol/L? If the latter that would be a little more concerning as that would be quite low!

Your UIBC is ok, it is in ug/dl as you suggested.

Happy decanting! :)

 

[Ennio]

I don't know how others feel doing this; it was my first time and realize people do this all the time, so it should not be a big deal, however, afterwords and even unto today, have been feeling like, i guess, emotional, like weeping, and at the same time calm and not sure why.

Well, not for this activity, but there have been other forms of doing that were, for one reason or another, 'stretches' for me; that required something new and challenging for me, and would get me feeing emotional. I think also that maybe the emotions come of the humility of seeing and acting on certain things that we know are connected to the greater reality we are looking at, if that makes any sense.

 

[annp]

I recently noticed an article on SOTT about cloves – what caught my eye is that clove is also an iron chelator:

"Out of the five antioxidant properties tested, cloves had the highest capacity to give off hydrogen, reduced lipid peroxidation well, and was the best iron reducer", Juana Fernández-López, one of the authors of the study and a researcher at the UMH, tells SINC.

Cloves are the best natural antioxidant: (http://www.sott.net/article/206264-Cloves-Are-the-Best-Antioxidant-Says-New-Study)

So – just out of curiosity went looking for more info and found this study here:

http://www.jofamericanscience.org/journals/am-sci/am0610/82_3676am0610_702_712.pdf
The Chemo-Protective Effect of Turmeric, Chili, Cloves and Cardamom on Correcting Iron Overload-Induced Liver Injury, Oxidative Stress and Serum Lipid Profile in Rat Models.

Results: The iron overload was associated with significant increases in the activities of the liver enzymes AST, ALT, ALP (P< 0.05) compared with the respective mean control values. All parameters of lipid profile (i.e.,serum total cholesterol, triacylglycerol, LDL-cholesterol, phospholipids), total bilirubin and MDA showed significant increase. On the other hand, the mean HDL – cholesterol and the activity of serum catalase were lower than the respective mean values of the control. Liver iron deposition also increased significantly after the iron overload. The incorporation of the turmeric, clove, chili, or cardamom in the diet at 2 % significantly restored the enzyme activities of the liver AST, ALT, ALP to normal level. The mean values of lipid profile, the MDA and serum total bilirubin were also reduced. The liver iron deposition was reduced with significant increase in the activity of mean serum catalase and HDL-cholesterol compared with the respective mean values obtained with the positive control group overloaded with iron.

Conclusion: The observed improvement in the liver functions suggests that the chemo-protective effect of the turmeric, clove, chili and cardamom is attributed to chelation with iron followed by excretion of the complex. This result may find application among populations at risk of iron overload; either acquired or inherited.

Although decanting and EDTA are obviously the first line of defense against iron, I guess it does not hurt to incorporate these spices into cooking as much as possible (except for the chili). Just added some ground cloves to my last batch of chocolate – was quite tasty!!

Just an update, have been continuing with the EDTA, lactoferrin, circumin daily, but with breaks on the weekends to get more minerals in my system. Energy levels have continued to improve as well as my overall mood.

However, I have also been taking B12 supplements as well. Feel like an idiot because I had quit taking B vitamins several months ago assuming that the meat diet would take care of that. Completely forgot that years ago I was prescribed B12 shots - apparently I am one of those people who cannot absorb B12 from meat and need supplementation! Of course none of the doctors prescribing them ever mentioned that I might need them forever! And, of course at that time I was clueless...then just forgot about it. Won't be forgetting that lesson any time soon. ;)

 

[Zadius Sky]

Update...

I just got back from the Red Cross center where I donated my whole blood for the second time. My pulse was good, BP was 118/76 and the Hemoglobin was 16.7 g/dL. I felt fine, no dizziness. I'm glad that the hemoglobin level haven't been changed in the last three months.

I will try to get another blood test panel done in the next week or so when I get my next paycheck.

 

[Mike]

Although decanting and EDTA are obviously the first line of defense against iron, I guess it does not hurt to incorporate these spices into cooking as much as possible (except for the chili). Just added some ground cloves to my last batch of chocolate – was quite tasty!!

Thanks for posting this info aleana. I just tried adding some cloves and cardamom to my normal bone broth (turmeric, salt, garlic, onion) and it was a bit unappetizing, but doable. Maybe following this will help with my liver results that were abnormal.

I found a label for my situation with iron and my liver test results that I match:

http://www.irondisorders.org/iron-overload

Dysmetabolic Iron Overload Syndrome (DIOS)
is characterized by an elevated serum ferritin with a normal transferrin-iron saturation percentage. People with DIOS will likely also have an elevated GGT (liver enzyme) possibly due to a fatty liver. Individuals with DIOS are helped by phlebotomy, diet and exercise. The FeGGT test is helpful in determining the iron status and GGT status. For more information about GGT and the FeGGT test, visit HealtheIron.com

Also, from my lab work on cholesterol, etc looks like I may be dealing with Metabolic Syndrome except my blood pressure and blood glucose are fine as mentioned in this post:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,20265.msg407502.html#msg407502

And this:

http://www.consumerhealth.org/articles/display.cfm?ID=19990303140150

ATHEROSCLEROSIS
“Some interesting findings came out of the 1992 Sullivan study. Many doctors began reporting that as iron levels increase, as ferritin goes up above 200, the cholesterol levels also go up, especially the LDL (bad) cholesterol, regardless of changes in diet such as reducing high cholesterol foods. Blood sugar goes up, blood pressure goes up, triglycerides go up and HDL levels go down. Despite all the recent studies in cardiology and cardiovascular surgery journals, I still don't know of any cardiovascular surgeons who put their patients on vitamin E or attempt to remove excess iron before they do these procedures. Doctors don't seem to want to recommend nutritional supplements. Under 5% recommend vitamin E to heart patients. It's tragic, because they know better.”

I don’t qualify to donate blood at the American Red Cross, so I’m going to show my independent lab results when I have a follow up appointment in mid July, try working with my primary care nurse practitioner to get a consult with a hematologist for my high serum ferritin and get a print out of all my blood work over the last year to verify information myself. I’m also going to try to find a doctor/hematologist that has dealt with iron overload in my area in case my health provider doesn’t react properly to my situation. I want to get the ball rolling on this situation this summer with phlebotomies, etc and may need to pay full medical cost to do so. I’m also going to research EDTA and impact on the liver before taking it focusing on Dr. Garry Gordon’s website and possibly contacting him since I have read in my earlier research in a couple places that EDTA can affect the liver, but with no additional information on the topic.