Hemochromatosis and Autoimmune Conditions

Though i might not have iron overload problem, i was thinking
about donating blood to Red Cross. But, i'm not very sure how will i / my body react on this.
It's about my problem with bleeding or sight of bleeding of other living being.
When it comes to that, i feel like i'm going to faint, my vision becomes blurry and i'm shivering, but i have never been anemic.
How to resolve this problem is what bothers me, so i'm willing to fight against my reactions by engaging in this challenge, as it seems to me being adequate approach to this problem of mine, or would it just be a torturing of myself?
I am not foolproof to do it or not.
 

Odyssey

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
lux12 said:
Though i might not have iron overload problem, i was thinking
about donating blood to Red Cross. But, i'm not very sure how will i / my body react on this.
It's about my problem with bleeding or sight of bleeding of other living being.
When it comes to that, i feel like i'm going to faint, my vision becomes blurry and i'm shivering, but i have never been anemic.
How to resolve this problem is what bothers me, so i'm willing to fight against my reactions by engaging in this challenge, as it seems to me being adequate approach to this problem of mine, or would it just be a torturing of myself?
I am not foolproof to do it or not.

If you haven't already had your ferritin level checked you will want to do that before donating, considering that most of the research says that levels should be around in the 20-60 range. I don't think that anyone here was in that range, however. You should still get your iron panel done beforehand. It may strengthen your resolve to donate and make you less squemish about it if you know ahead of time you're doing it for your health.

If you do give blood you can always look away when the needle is inserted and during the whole procedure if even seeing blood in the tubing and bag might bother you. There shouldn't be any blood at the insertion site, at any rate. A little pipe breathing before and during wouldn't hurt either. :)

My ferritin level was 102 and I attempted to give blood a couple of weeks ago. They tried both arms but the blood would only flow as far as the first little "receiver" bag and wouldn't go any further to fill up the big bag. They kept saying my veins were too small and I thought I was properly hydrated. I plan to try it again this weekend or next. I've done a few courses of EDTA so I'll try to donate again and get another iron panel done to see where I'm at.
 

Michal

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Hi,

This is maybe wrong but one thought came to me that maybe bleeding is related to catholic transubstantiation part of the mass when priest at the altar is saying:
Take this, all of you, and drink from it, for this is the chalice of my blood
.

Could it be some remnant of old history, old tradition? Maybe blood was food someday? Maybe allegory of Christ as a pelican who feeds its children by its own blood was not only allegory?

In Old Testament it was forbidden by God (Yahweh) to drink blood.

Leviticus 17:11-12
New International Version (NIV)

11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.
12 Therefore I say to the Israelites, “None of you may eat blood, nor may any foreigner residing among you eat blood

Drinking blood in western culture is almost inseparable from Vampire theme. Even now writting this I still have the image of "Twilight Saga". Well programmed. It is meant evil however giving vampires a lot of extraordinary power.

In cultures like in Siberian Evenks it was up to recent time normal to drink blood of reindeers. I have seen one documentary film about that but cannot find the title of it.
Masais drink blood of their cattle.

Maybe You read something about this?
 

Eboard10

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Mikel said:
This is maybe wrong but one thought came to me that maybe bleeding is related to catholic transubstantiation part of the mass when priest at the altar is saying:
Take this, all of you, and drink from it, for this is the chalice of my blood
.

Could it be some remnant of old history, old tradition? Maybe blood was food someday? Maybe allegory of Christ as a pelican who feeds its children by its own blood was not only allegory?

Hi Mikel, you may want to have a read through this session with the Cs:

Session Date: August 20th 2011
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,24722.msg285390.html#msg285390

A: You know the saying: Only through the shedding of blood is there remission of sins?

Q: (L) Yes.

A: And what about: Take eat, this is my body?

Q: (L) Yes.

A: And: Take, drink, this is my blood?

Q: (L) Yes. (Burma) So it sounds like they're saying that there's a hidden thing in the whole
resurrection or salvation by the blood thing. That agriculture is evil and we could return by going on
an animal‐based diet?

A: No not exactly. When humankind "fell" into gross matter, a way was needed to return. This way
simply is a manifestation of the natural laws. Consciousness must "eat" also. This is a natural
function of the life giving nature of the environment in balance. The Earth is the Great Mother who
gives her body, literally, in the form of creatures with a certain level of consciousness for the
sustenance of her children of the cosmos. This is the original meaning of those sayings.

Q: (L) So, eating flesh also means eating consciousness which accumulates, I'm assuming is what is
being implied here, or what feeds our consciousness so that it grows in step with our bodies? Is that
close?

A: Close enough.

Q: (Ailen) And when you eat veggies you're basically eating a much lower level of consciousness. (L)
Not only that, but in a sense you're rejecting the gift and you're not feeding consciousness. And that
means that all eating of meat should be a sacrament.

A: Yes

Q: (Burma) With agriculture, you're not only rejecting the gift, you're turning around and beating up
the Mother. (L) Well that sure puts a whole different light on the whole Cain and Abel thing!
{Interesting that the original “vegetarian” was the first murderer, too.}

A: Yes.
 

Gaby

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
This is an update from the journal Brain, volume 136, issue 6 (pp 1687-1691), June 2013. Basically they highlight the increasing number of mutations found that end in iron deposition in the brain. It seems new genetic technologies makes these discoveries easier. It seems that these people can have normal iron blood work and still deposit whatever little or normal they might have, on the brain. Some mutations are fairly recent and don't follow the "general rules".

Brain iron takes off: a new propeller protein links neurodegeneration with autophagy

Dr Rita Horvath

+ Author Affiliations

Institute of Genetic Medicine, Newcastle University, UK E-mail: Rita.Horvath@ncl.ac.uk


Neurodegeneration with brain iron accumulation’ (NBIA) is a clinically and genetically heterogeneous group of disorders presenting with progressive extrapyramidal dysfunction, and as a common feature, with brain iron deposition in the basal ganglia, particularly in the globus pallidus and substantia nigra (Gregory and Hayflick, 2013a). Over recent years an increasing number of mutations in novel disease genes have been identified in NBIA, facilitated by new genetic technologies. Mutations in nine different genes have been shown to cause NBIA to date, with a spectrum of overlapping clinical phenotypes (Fig. 1, Gregory and Hayflick, 2013a). The identification of novel disease genes has improved our understanding of major disease mechanisms leading to iron deposition as a potential common pathway, although the direct link between iron accumulation and clinical presentation requires further work.

The clinical ‘hallmarks’ of NBIA are progressive dystonia, dysarthria, spasticity and parkinsonism. Optic atrophy, retinal degeneration and peripheral neuropathy may be associated features in a number of NBIA syndromes. Characteristic MRI findings may be helpful in the diagnosis, but they may appear only later in the disease course. However some specific signs on MRI may facilitate the diagnosis (Fig. 1). The age of manifestation (childhood–adulthood) and the inheritance pattern (autosomal recessive in seven forms; autosomal dominant in neuroferritinopathy; and X-linked in WDR45 deficiency) may be helpful in the differential diagnosis of NBIA (Fig. 1). In a large proportion of cases (∼40%), the underlying genetic basis of NBIA has yet to be defined, suggesting further genetic heterogeneity (Gregory and Hayflick, 2013a).

[...]

In this issue of Brain, Susan Hayflick’s group—in collaboration with several international investigators—reports a large cohort of 23 patients with a recently identified form of NBIA, carrying mutations in the X-chromosomal WDR45 gene encoding a beta-propeller protein, postulated to play a role in autophagy (Hayflick et al., 2013). While two papers reported recently on the identification of WDR45 as a novel NBIA gene (Haack et al., 2012; Saitsu et al., 2013), the paper by Hayflick and colleagues (2013) provides an excellent overview on the clinical presentation. Before the identification of WDR45, the original description of some patients with this form of NBIA referred to a distinct clinical syndrome called static encephalopathy of childhood with neurodegeneration in adulthood (SENDA). The new study expands the clinical phenotype and suggests that WDR45 deficiency should be named as ‘beta-propeller protein-associated neurodegeneration’ (BPAN).

[...]

A second phase of the disease affects all patients and manifests in adolescent or young adult life (∼25 years) with progressive dystonia, cognitive decline, speech difficulties and parkinsonism characterized by bradykinesia and rigidity, usually without tremor. The severity of parkinsonian features in some patients prompted the authors to suggest that BPAN may be also classified as a genetic form of parkinsonism.

[...] Additional symptoms are sleep disturbance (abnormal REM, hypo- or hypersomnolence), ocular features (patchy loss of papillary ruff, coloboma, myopia) and Rett-like hand movement stereotypesin; in seven patients this led to an original diagnosis of atypical Rett syndrome (Hayflick et al., 2013). [...]

Prominent iron accumulation has been detected in the substantia nigra in the early phase of the disease. While nigral iron is evident in these patients, the pallidum may not appear hypointense on regular T2-weighted images, only on gradient-echo or T2* sequences. T1-weighted signal hyperintensity with a central band of hypointensity in the substantia nigra seems to be a specific finding in BPAN. Generalized cerebral atrophy is also reported in 19 out of 23 patients, whereas cerebellar atrophy is a less common feature only being present in six individuals (Hayflick et al., 2013).

One of the most puzzling features of WDR45 deficiency is its inheritance pattern. Although WDR45 is located on the X chromosome, clinical features of the disease do not follow the pattern typical for an X-linked disorder. All affected individuals to date are sporadic cases with no family history of NBIA and most WDR45 variants are nonsense mutations, each arising de novo (Hayflick et al., 2013). Although the significant gender bias (20 females versus three males) suggests that WDR45 mutations are lethal in most males, the phenotypes of the three affected male patients carrying nonsense mutations is clinically indistinguishable from the clinical presentation in females (Gregory and Hayflick, 2013). After excluding sex-chromosome aneuploidy, the most likely explanation is that the mutations are post-zygotic, leading to somatic mosaicism in males, and possibly in females. This mechanism could explain the similarities between genders and also the detection of exclusively de novo mutations in females; and suggests that genetic analysis of multiple tissues may be necessary to screen for WDR45 mutations in mildly affected individuals (Haack et al., 2012). A similar inheritance pattern has been observed in Rett syndrome (MIM 312750), another X-linked dominant disease (Christodoulou and Ho, 2012).
 

Gaby

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
And from Cereb. Cortex (2013) 23 (7): 1533-1541. doi: 10.1093/cercor/bhs139 July 2013:

The Role of Hippocampal Iron Concentration and Hippocampal Volume in Age-Related Differences in Memory

_http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/23/7/1533.abstract.html?etoc

The goal of this study was to examine the relationships between 2 age-sensitive indices of brain integrity—volume and iron concentration—and the associated age differences in memory performance. In 113 healthy adults (age 19–83 years), we measured the volume and estimated iron concentration in the hippocampus (HC), caudate nucleus (Cd), and primary visual cortex (VC) in vivo with T2* relaxation times, and assessed memory performance with multiple tests. We applied structural equation modeling to evaluate the contribution of individual differences in 2 indices of integrity, volume and T2*, to age-related memory variance. The results show that in healthy adults, age differences in memory can be explained in part by individual differences in HC volume that in turn are associated with differences in HC iron concentration. Lower memory scores were linked to smaller HC and higher HC iron concentration. No such associations were noted for Cd and VC. We conclude that the association between age-related declines in memory and reduced hippocampal volume may reflect the impact of oxidative stress related to increase in free iron concentration. Longitudinal follow-up is needed to test whether altered iron homeostasis in the HC is an early marker for age-related cognitive decline.
 
Odyssey said:
If you haven't already had your ferritin level checked you will want to do that before donating, considering that most of the research says that levels should be around in the 20-60 range. I don't think that anyone here was in that range, however. You should still get your iron panel done beforehand. It may strengthen your resolve to donate and make you less squemish about it if you know ahead of time you're doing it for your health.

If you do give blood you can always look away when the needle is inserted and during the whole procedure if even seeing blood in the tubing and bag might bother you. There shouldn't be any blood at the insertion site, at any rate. A little pipe breathing before and during wouldn't hurt either. :)

My ferritin level was 102 and I attempted to give blood a couple of weeks ago. They tried both arms but the blood would only flow as far as the first little "receiver" bag and wouldn't go any further to fill up the big bag. They kept saying my veins were too small and I thought I was properly hydrated. I plan to try it again this weekend or next. I've done a few courses of EDTA so I'll try to donate again and get another iron panel done to see where I'm at.

My physician required ferritin level check among other iron panel, but after i recieved lab tests they did not checked ferritin at all.
Interesting. :rolleyes:
My veins are also too small. I'll see what can i do about that whole thing. Thanks, Odyssey.
 

Voyageur

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
nicklebleu said:
Iron saturation is still a bit on the high side - of course the ferritin could just be inflammatory.

What I would do is to decant a few pints and then retest - if the ferritin goes down parallel to the decanting it is probably at least a mixed picture.
As long as you don't drop your haemoglobin your are on the safe side - most of us don't have an issue with iron deficiency and if the Hb should start to drop, just stop decanting and your iron stores will replenish by themselves (unless you are losing blood somewhere).

And I would also probably start on some oral EDTA, which is potentially anti-inflammatory.

And at the same time address other potentially inflammatory issues.

Anyway, that's my take on your results ...

I'll be in a city Monday and will try and set up an appointment to donate - will be ordering EDTA.


Psyche said:
voyageur said:
So although the panel on Iron looks ok, i'm left thinking something is not correct in the Ferritin assessment that was given, unless i'm missing something?

It seems the only safe thing to assume here is that your health care provider will not be able to read the measurements accurately. :/

She is the only one i've met so far who seems to not push pharma and focuses on diet; yet i'm not sure what that focus is upon.

From the Iron Disorders Institute book, you have iron overload.

Your transferring saturation is of 42%. Normal range is 25-35 percent. The book says:

If the patient has an elevated transferrin iron saturation percentage greater than 45% with an accompanying elevated serum ferritin, iron overload is present and phlebotomy can commence.

Loud and clear.

I assume you fasted for these tests?

The first series with the ferritin 341, i indeed did (14hrs), the second one, the iron panel alone, i asked the Lab technician specifically and was told, "not necessary" - so that's not good. Not sure how this would affect the result (the 42% saturation value)?

Your transferrin saturation is of 42% and ferritin 341. Plus, your blood work doesn't look typically like the one of a person following a low carb diet.

I'm overdoing it on the portions and timing of meals. Also, have had something going on with left ear since three weeks ago - adjustments needed.

Are there mobile units you can go for blood donation? That case you don't have to travel very far away?

Unfortunately not a one, am required to travel 300km and will be in such a place next week.

I was reading an article written by Mercola about cholesterol and the Statin Nation documentary. He mentioned briefly the issue of ferritin, which in his experience shouldn't be more than 80!

I'm donating blood tomorrow, decided I should get over the 16 gauge needle size phobia.

ADDED: Just saw nicklebleu's post. Well, sounds like a plan to me ;)

Good luck with the 16 gauge phobia; would be for me too.

Thank you both for the feedback.
 

Oxajil

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
To give an update:

So my blood results showed a high ferritin level, and a month ago I went for the first check at the blood donation center. Everything was fine (and you were right Ailén, they didn't weigh me) and they also took some blood to check for any diseases and my blood type. They told me I will receive the results the following week, with an invitation to donate blood.

Well, a month later and I haven't heard or received anything. I've called twice, and the first time I called, they told me that I will only get an invitiation if I would be needed (perhaps related to my bloodtype, i.e. maybe it's not so rare...). The second time I called, which was a few days ago, I was told it could take some more time for me to be called up. So yea....

Instead of waiting I decided to start the EDTA protocol as soon as I receive the supplements. Unfortunately I couldn't order the EDTA supplement from amazon.com that you guys use, as it won't be shipped to this country. So I ordered one from iherb.com, though this one does include rice flour (part of the capsule), but I thought it was the best one I could get. Hopefully that won't affect me much, and the benefits will outweigh that. Will keep you all updated on how it goes.

Also, I would be happy to lend the book "The Iron Elephant" (latest version) to anyone who is in need and has difficulty getting it. :)
 

LQB

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Here is a source for blood draw kits by the case. A case should be 50 units, so check this before ordering.

_http://www.reliablemedsupplies.com/products.cfm/Needles-Syringes/Blood-Collection-Needle-Sets-Standard/SET-PHLEBOTOMY-16G-BACKEYE-KAWBS16S1.html
 

l apprenti de forgeron

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Oxajil said:
Also, I would be happy to lend the book "The Iron Elephant" (latest version) to anyone who is in need and has difficulty getting it. :)

Thank you, Oxajil!

I'm still waiting for people of bookch answer me. Apparently they said yes they would make shipment to Argentina, but then canceled the operation and did not return to answer. In any case I'll wait a few more days and I'll let you know.
 

Oxajil

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
LQB said:
Here is a source for blood draw kits by the case. A case should be 50 units, so check this before ordering.

_http://www.reliablemedsupplies.com/products.cfm/Needles-Syringes/Blood-Collection-Needle-Sets-Standard/SET-PHLEBOTOMY-16G-BACKEYE-KAWBS16S1.html

Don't think I would have the expertise or the guts to try that out! Funny enough, shortly after I posted I received an invitation card that I am allowed to donate blood. :D

l apprenti de forgeron said:
Thank you, Oxajil!

I'm still waiting for people of bookch answer me. Apparently they said yes they would make shipment to Argentina, but then canceled the operation and did not return to answer. In any case I'll wait a few more days and I'll let you know.

Okay l apprenti :)
 

l apprenti de forgeron

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Oxajil said:
LQB said:
Here is a source for blood draw kits by the case. A case should be 50 units, so check this before ordering.

_http://www.reliablemedsupplies.com/products.cfm/Needles-Syringes/Blood-Collection-Needle-Sets-Standard/SET-PHLEBOTOMY-16G-BACKEYE-KAWBS16S1.html

Don't think I would have the expertise or the guts to try that out! Funny enough, shortly after I posted I received an invitation card that I am allowed to donate blood. :D
Great news, glad for you!
 

Mike

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Just received my results from an Iron Panel taken yesterday. I had to drive to another state to get it done, since the one I'm in doesn't allow self-testing. Glad I did because my Serum Ferritin is way up there. The rest of the results look ok as far as I can tell.

Test Description Result Range Units
Iron, Serum 63 40-155 ug/dL
Iron Bind.Cap.(TIBC) 251 250-450 ug/dL
UIBC 188 150-375 ug/dL
Iron Saturation 25 15-55 %

Test Description Result Range Units
Ferritin, Serum 455 30-400 ng/mL

I've been holding off from donating blood until I had the lab results and will go do it tomorrow if possible. I also have liposomal EDTA that I had bought for doing heavy metal detox. Currently reading the 'Detox with Oral Chelation'. I don't think there is a chance of my primary care medical provider, Veteran Affairs, ordering phlebotomy, but I will try when I make a follow up appointment, yet they will have to take a blood test to confirm the above results, etc since I did this myself. So I'll have to figure something out in terms of getting this down myself like self draw, which I really wouldn't want to do. Another concern is the abnormal readings with my liver that I mentioned in another thread but didn't have the results for. Could be that the high serum ferritin has something to do with it. I do have an appointment with the VA psychiatrist on the 13th, so I will ask for a print out of my last few blood draws to include my liver readings. Maybe they could get the iron panel done and I'll broach the subject of phlebotomy with them and see what happens.

Edit added: for clarification
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
According to this paper, unless you have an occupational overload, EDTA heavy metals detox is best done at lower dosages:

http://www.riordanclinic.org/research/articles/SDD-2011-v01n02-p81.pdf

Protocol For IV And Oral EDTA Chelation
http://fight4yourhealth.com/protocols/protocol-for-iv-and-oral-edta-chelation


Reactions to Oral Chelation?

http://fight4yourhealth.com/answers/reactions-to-oral-chelation
 
Top Bottom