High Dose Melatonin Therapy

[Elesia89]

Thanks for your answer.
Maybe i should explain the whole problem.
I have been diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2018 and i had a heavy treatement. I still have it, but its light now, I take 75mg of loxapine (antipsychotic/neuroleptic) and 10 mg of lepticur (antiparkinson) the evening. At this moment my schyzophrenia is gone but i still rely on those pills for sleep and my brain is completely hooked up, i mean, if i dont take them i dont sleep at all.
So i had the idea to take melatonin at the same time and try to reduce the other pills over time but since i realized that melatonin acts a bit like a drug and that there is an adaptation phase, it is probably a bad idea to try to combine both.
Also i dont know if i have a calcified pineal gland which would mean no secretion of melatonin at night, but i bought 3 liter of lugol iodine to help with that.

Anyway this is quite a situation but i have about 10 months to try to get off ALL DRUGS and recover sleep cycle completely.
Any share of ideas would be appreciated.

Regards.

 

[anartist]

Thanks for your answer.
Maybe i should explain the whole problem.
I have been diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2018 and i had a heavy treatement. I still have it, but its light now, I take 75mg of loxapine (antipsychotic/neuroleptic) and 10 mg of lepticur (antiparkinson) the evening. At this moment my schyzophrenia is gone but i still rely on those pills for sleep and my brain is completely hooked up, i mean, if i dont take them i dont sleep at all.
So i had the idea to take melatonin at the same time and try to reduce the other pills over time but since i realized that melatonin acts a bit like a drug and that there is an adaptation phase, it is probably a bad idea to try to combine both.
Also i dont know if i have a calcified pineal gland which would mean no secretion of melatonin at night, but i bought 3 liter of lugol iodine to help with that.

Anyway this is quite a situation but i have about 10 months to try to get off ALL DRUGS and recover sleep cycle completely.
Any share of ideas would be appreciated.

Regards.

The dose of melatonin is also dependent somewhat on age. We produce less melatonin as we age, so higher doses at older ages is not problematic. Also, ,melatonin is produced in many cells in the body, not just the pineal gland. good interview on melatonin here

What You Need to Know About Melatonin - Discussion Between Dr. Russel Reiter & Dr. Mercola

Listen now (70 mins) | In this interview, Russel Reiter, Ph.D. — a world-class expert on melatonin — discusses some of the biological activities and health benefits of this important molecule.

takecontrol.substack.com

 

[Alana]

I have been diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2018 and i had a heavy treatement. I still have it, but its light now, I take 75mg of loxapine (antipsychotic/neuroleptic) and 10 mg of lepticur (antiparkinson) the evening. At this moment my schyzophrenia is gone but i still rely on those pills for sleep and my brain is completely hooked up, i mean, if i dont take them i dont sleep at all.
So i had the idea to take melatonin at the same time and try to reduce the other pills over time but since i realized that melatonin acts a bit like a drug and that there is an adaptation phase, it is probably a bad idea to try to combine both.
Also i dont know if i have a calcified pineal gland which would mean no secretion of melatonin at night, but i bought 3 liter of lugol iodine to help with that.

Anyway this is quite a situation but i have about 10 months to try to get off ALL DRUGS and recover sleep cycle completely.
Any share of ideas would be appreciated.

Hi Romain. As you might already know, getting off psychiatric medication should be done very carefully and under the guidance of your doctor. Do you have a good, open relationship with him/her? I mean the professional who gave you the diagnosis and the prescription. If you are able, it would be ideal to talk to them about your plan to wean yourself off medication, AND your desire to start melatonin and iodine. With the latter, I personally had experiences that resembled anxiety attacks, after taking it for a while. I stopped obviously, but it wasn't pleasant at the time.

What I am trying to say is that both melatonin and iodine can be powerful substances and you need to know at least how they will interact with your current medication before you even consider starting them.

 

[Elesia89]

Yes I have talked to a few people about it and they said it can be damaging to stop antipsychotics abruptly so i am not gonna stop it.
Also the method with the melatonin wont work because they work on different receptor of the brain.
I do have time (10 months) to wean off everything so i am gonna proceed carefully.

 

[Kay Kim]

Today I was researching about Toxic additives in supplements, found out that almost all of the product is/was, maybe except few.
And I threw away lots of my own vitamins and supplements. But, it seems like my melatonin from the “Bestvite” is none additive.

Common Supplement Additives to Avoid | Dr. Lauren Deville, Naturopathic Doctor - Tucson, AZ

Many of my patients come in with a shopping bag full of supplements at the first visit. Dr. Lauren Deville is a Naturopathic Doctor in Tucson, AZ (Nature Cure

www.drlaurendeville.com

​

• Soybean oil. This is partially hydrogenated, and it’s also genetically modified unless otherwise stated.
• Magnesium stearate. The controversy here isn’t over the magnesium, but over the stearate, or stearic acid. The latter was linked in this study to reduced T-cell function.
• Titanium Dioxide. This filler can cause DNA damage and intestinal inflammation.
• Corn starch. Unless otherwise specified, corn or corn products are GMO in the US. That’s a good enough reason to avoid it.
• Corn maltodextrin. Ditto above.
• Stearic Acid. As with magnesium stearate, this was linked in this study to reduced T-cell function.
• Citric acid: usually derived from GMO corn.
• Cellulose powder. This is derived from wood pulp.

• Modified food starch. This is almost always from corn, which means it’s GMO unless otherwise stated.
• Sucrose. This is table sugar. It’s not enough that it’s in all prepackaged foods—now it’s in supplements too! Plus, it’s usually GMO.
• Polyethylene glycol. Derived from petroleum, this is made from ethylene glycol (aka antifreeze.)
• Sorbitol: These are sugar alcohols. If you’re very sensitive to FODMAPs, they aren’t a good choice, but otherwise the small amount you’d get in your supplement likely isn’t enough to cause bloating.
• Xylitol: Ditto above.
• Anti-caking agents. These absorb excess moisture, and prevent clumping.

• Tricalcium phosphate. Large amounts of this cause digestive upset; small amounts can do the same in sensitive individuals.
• Sodium ferrocyanide. This is “toxic to blood, lungs, and mucus membranes.”
• Tricalcium silicate. An ingredient in cement, this is hazardous when inhaled or on skin contact. I didn’t see anything about ingesting it, but seems like a bad idea to me!
• Emulsifiers: These help water and fats to combine.

• Soy lecithin: Anything made with soy is GMO unless otherwise specified. Avoid.
• Brominated vegetable oil (BVO): bromine is an element that acts as a competitive inhibitor with iodine, potentially leading to or exacerbating hypothyroidism.
• Ammonium phosphatides. This is manufactured using rapeseed oil, which is not a food (and it’s genetically modified).
• Preservatives: These give the ingredients a longer shelf life.

• Ascorbic acid: although this is vitamin C, most of it is made from GMO corn unless otherwise stated.
• Sodium benzoate. Benzene is a byproduct of this one—a known carcinogen.
• Sulfites. These can cause severe asthma reactions in sensitive individuals. They are also a relatively common trigger for migraines.
• Sodium ascorbate. This is made from GMO corn unless otherwise stated.
• Ascorbyl palmitate. Ditto above—also made from GMO corn unless otherwise stated.
• Nitrates or nitrites. In the body these form carcinogenic (cancer-causing) nitrosamines.
• Sodium citrate. Usually derived from GMO corn.
• Citric acid. Usually derived from GMO corn

Why you should pay more attention to the additives used in your supplements – Pure Encapsulations

Here are the additives to look for on your supplement label and why you’ll never find them in a Pure Encapsulations® product.

 

[wilfried]

Today I was researching about Toxic additives in supplements, found out that almost all of the product is/was, maybe except few.
And I threw away lots of View attachment 73300my own vitamins and supplements. But, it seems like my melatonin from the “Bestvite” is none additive.

Common Supplement Additives to Avoid | Dr. Lauren Deville, Naturopathic Doctor - Tucson, AZ

Many of my patients come in with a shopping bag full of supplements at the first visit. Dr. Lauren Deville is a Naturopathic Doctor in Tucson, AZ (Nature Cure

www.drlaurendeville.com

​

• Soybean oil. This is partially hydrogenated, and it’s also genetically modified unless otherwise stated.
• Magnesium stearate. The controversy here isn’t over the magnesium, but over the stearate, or stearic acid. The latter was linked in this study to reduced T-cell function.
• Titanium Dioxide. This filler can cause DNA damage and intestinal inflammation.
• Corn starch. Unless otherwise specified, corn or corn products are GMO in the US. That’s a good enough reason to avoid it.
• Corn maltodextrin. Ditto above.
• Stearic Acid. As with magnesium stearate, this was linked in this study to reduced T-cell function.
• Citric acid: usually derived from GMO corn.
• Cellulose powder. This is derived from wood pulp.
• Modified food starch. This is almost always from corn, which means it’s GMO unless otherwise stated.
• Sucrose. This is table sugar. It’s not enough that it’s in all prepackaged foods—now it’s in supplements too! Plus, it’s usually GMO.
• Polyethylene glycol. Derived from petroleum, this is made from ethylene glycol (aka antifreeze.)
• Sorbitol: These are sugar alcohols. If you’re very sensitive to FODMAPs, they aren’t a good choice, but otherwise the small amount you’d get in your supplement likely isn’t enough to cause bloating.
• Xylitol: Ditto above.
• Anti-caking agents. These absorb excess moisture, and prevent clumping.
• Tricalcium phosphate. Large amounts of this cause digestive upset; small amounts can do the same in sensitive individuals.
• Sodium ferrocyanide. This is “toxic to blood, lungs, and mucus membranes.”
• Tricalcium silicate. An ingredient in cement, this is hazardous when inhaled or on skin contact. I didn’t see anything about ingesting it, but seems like a bad idea to me!
• Emulsifiers: These help water and fats to combine.
• Soy lecithin: Anything made with soy is GMO unless otherwise specified. Avoid.
• Brominated vegetable oil (BVO): bromine is an element that acts as a competitive inhibitor with iodine, potentially leading to or exacerbating hypothyroidism.
• Ammonium phosphatides. This is manufactured using rapeseed oil, which is not a food (and it’s genetically modified).
• Preservatives: These give the ingredients a longer shelf life.
• Ascorbic acid: although this is vitamin C, most of it is made from GMO corn unless otherwise stated.
• Sodium benzoate. Benzene is a byproduct of this one—a known carcinogen.
• Sulfites. These can cause severe asthma reactions in sensitive individuals. They are also a relatively common trigger for migraines.
• Sodium ascorbate. This is made from GMO corn unless otherwise stated.
• Ascorbyl palmitate. Ditto above—also made from GMO corn unless otherwise stated.
• Nitrates or nitrites. In the body these form carcinogenic (cancer-causing) nitrosamines.
• Sodium citrate. Usually derived from GMO corn.
• Citric acid. Usually derived from GMO corn

Why you should pay more attention to the additives used in your supplements – Pure Encapsulations

Here are the additives to look for on your supplement label and why you’ll never find them in a Pure Encapsulations® product.

i take my supplements from this lab wich present their products with info and study. It seems they are free additiv.
Here's the link for vegan melatonine, in french language

Mélatonine vegan, comprimés à libération prolongée - Nutrixeal

1,75 mg de mélatonine par comprimé, sans excipient, action prolongée, sommeil. Laboratoire français Nutrixeal.

www.nutrixeal.fr

 

[whitecoast]

I've been a regular taker of melatonin for maybe over a decade now. My usual dosage was 10mg per night. After quitting melatonin cold turkey for a week and a half, I noticed that the sensitivity of my sleep cycle to things like eating carbs, protein, and fat later in the day or at night has decreased significantly. This has been a large breakthrough for me, since I've been noticing over the past number of years, while cycling through combinations of keto, carnivore, and paleo, that I increasingly needed to avoid eating anything past the very early afternoon, since that would cause me to wake up randomly at 3am for a couple of hours before I fell back asleep again. It's been a very frustrating experience for me, relying on over-the-counter sleep medications to try and knock me out to get a full night's sleep.

I am happy to say that I may have found the root cause of this in the melatonin supplementation, either due to the amount or the duration I've been on it. Since swearing off that I've been focusing more on using more natural methods to elevate melatonin, such as getting sunlight in the early morning and evening, avoiding blue light later at night, and so on.

Earlier this week I ended up visiting a Naturopath with a bioresonance device, which analyzed my body's responses to various electromagnetic frequencies to look for imbalances in my biochemistry, microbiome, emotions, etc. It looked at nutrient deficiencies, presence of heavy metals, food sensitivities, emotional blockages, state of chakras, and so on. For my organs they were all in healthy ranges except my thymus and my pineal gland, both of which were extremely over-active. So I thought that was interesting.

 

[iamthatis]

I've been a regular taker of melatonin for maybe over a decade now. My usual dosage was 10mg per night. After quitting melatonin cold turkey for a week and a half, I noticed that the sensitivity of my sleep cycle to things like eating carbs, protein, and fat later in the day or at night has decreased significantly. This has been a large breakthrough for me, since I've been noticing over the past number of years, while cycling through combinations of keto, carnivore, and paleo, that I increasingly needed to avoid eating anything past the very early afternoon, since that would cause me to wake up randomly at 3am for a couple of hours before I fell back asleep again. It's been a very frustrating experience for me, relying on over-the-counter sleep medications to try and knock me out to get a full night's sleep.

I am happy to say that I may have found the root cause of this in the melatonin supplementation, either due to the amount or the duration I've been on it. Since swearing off that I've been focusing more on using more natural methods to elevate melatonin, such as getting sunlight in the early morning and evening, avoiding blue light later at night, and so on.

Earlier this week I ended up visiting a Naturopath with a bioresonance device, which analyzed my body's responses to various electromagnetic frequencies to look for imbalances in my biochemistry, microbiome, emotions, etc. It looked at nutrient deficiencies, presence of heavy metals, food sensitivities, emotional blockages, state of chakras, and so on. For my organs they were all in healthy ranges except my thymus and my pineal gland, both of which were extremely over-active. So I thought that was interesting.

So it sounds like you're getting a good night's rest now?

I also get up quite early, often with vivd reams. I went through a period of 3 AM wakeups for months. Usually I'd roll out my sauna blanket and sleep in there for another hour or so. I've never taken 10mg, though, usually 3 mg, and my max was 5 mg. I looked up the dosages on the thread and found some things I'd forgotten about!

Melatonin usually has a short life of 30 to 40 minutes. The decline in melatonin levels in your bloodstream will cause your temperature to rise, which your body interprets as a wake-up signal. People who take relatively high doses (10mg), are able to sustain elevated melatonin levels through the night. Others, take a smaller dose of melatonin if they wake up in the middle of the night. Another option is to take a time released melatonin. Nevertheless, the doses that Reiter recommends for people who choose to take melatonin (based on 90s research) are:

Sleep 0.2-10mg
Jet lag 1-10mg
Anti-ageing 0.1-3mg
Shift work 1-5mg
Immune stimulation 2-20mg

The doses that Laura suggested from the other book, looked better. But keep in mind that if there's a virus flying around, you can take 2-20mg to help you fight it off.

So maybe I have been waking up in the early morning as the melatonin wears off. Very interesting. I was going by this graph below, and since I'm younger than 40, I thought that I may as well keep my doses low.

For insomnia or restless, broken sleep:

Tak 1 mg melatonin. If you are not asleep in 30 minutes take another 1 mg. If in 30 min, not asleep, repeat with another 1 mg, up to 5 mg. (I guess if 5 doesn't work, you could start higher the next night with 2 mg, then another 2 mg in 30 min, and so on.)

Anyway, after you finally do get a night's sleep (having found the amount that does the job), continue taking that amount every night for 2 weeks for a reset, and then, if you are in the "anti-aging" set, go to your normal supplementation amount.

Anti-aging:

Age	Dose 30 minutes before sleep time
40-44	.5 to 1 mg
45-54	1 to 2 mg
55-64	2 to 2.5 mg
65-74	2.5 to 5 mg
75 plus	3.5 to 5 mg

If groggy next day, reduce your dose by 1/2 mg. Try that, if still groggy, reduce again. Obviously, if the suggested amounts don't do the job, you can try upping it by 1/2 mg at a time.

Thanks for posting, it was good to revisit the info! Back to the ol' drawing board.

 

[hobnob]

Sometimes the only solution that works is sleep. And sometimes the only thing that assists in that is melatonin, at least for me. I take generally 3 mg.

Just wanted to say thanks for some of this information.