Historical Events Database - History

[Dirgni]

Re: Historical Events Database

I could check these German sources (Please give me an account if you are interested in that I include them/one of them in Historical Events Database):

Res gestae Saxonicae /Die Sachsengeschichte (‘The Deeds of the Saxons’): Lat. /Dt by Widukind of Corvey
http://www.amazon.de/Res-gestae-Saxonicae-Die-Sachsengeschichte/dp/3150076994/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1392399109&sr=8-2&keywords=Corvey+Reclam

Vita Karoli Magni / Das Leben Karls des Großen von Einhard
http://www.amazon.de/Karoli-Magni-Leben-Karls-Gro%C3%9Fen/dp/3150019966/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392399051&sr=8-1&keywords=Einhard+Reclam


I searched the internet for English translations and found these:

Widukind of Corvey: The Deeds of the Saxons, or Three Books of Annals"
(Latin book first completed in 967 or 968)
_http://www.leeds.ac.uk/arts/download/1150/the_deeds_of_the_saxons_by_widukind_of_korvey
The Deeds of the Saxons by Widukind of Korvey. (extracts; missing parts have to be translated)

Einhard: The Life of Charlemagne
(The date of the work is uncertain and a number of theories have been put forward. The inclusion of Charlemagne's will at the end of the work makes it fairly clear that it was written after his death in 814.)
_http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/einhard.asp
(c)Paul Halsall August 1996, updated January 1999
translated by Samuel Epes Turner (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1880)

The Monk of Saint Gall: The Life of Charlemagne
(This highly anecdotal "life" was composed for Charles the Fat in 883-4)
_http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/stgall-charlemagne.asp
© Paul Halsall, January 1999
A.J. Grant, ed. and trans. Early Lives of Charlemagne by Eginhard and the Monk of St. Gall, (London: Chatto & Windus, London, 1926), 59-158.

I copied these sources to Word included page numbers, line numbers and where I found them in the internet (footer). Then I printed them to pdf. This may make quotations easier. They are in appendix. For quotations of them I would use my Reclam books and check the English translations above against the German version. I would check if Latin somehow correlates to translated versions; I never learned Latin only some Spanish - so there may be a lot of guessing here.



Latin original texts you find here:

Widukindus Corbeius: Rerum gestarum Saxonicarum libri tres
_http://www.fh-augsburg.de/~harsch/Chronologia/Lspost10/Widukind/wid_sax0.html

Vita Karoli Magni (Life of Charles the Great) is a biography of Charlemagne, King of the Franks and Holy Roman Emperor, written by Einhard.
Full Latin text at the Latin Library:
_http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/ein.html



Widukind of Corvey: "The Deeds of the Saxons, or Three Books of Annals"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res_gestae_saxonicae_sive_annalium_libri_tres

Res gestae saxonicae sive annalium libri tres
The three-volume Res gestae saxonicae sive annalium libri tres ("The Deeds of the Saxons, or Three Books of Annals") is a chronicle of 10th century Germany written by Widukind of Corvey. Widukind, proud of his people and history, begins his annals, not with Rome, but with a brief synopsis derived from the orally-transmitted history of the Saxons, with a terseness that makes his work difficult to interpret. Widukind omits Italian events in tracing the career of Henry the Fowler and he never mentioned a pope.

Volumes

Res gestae saxonicae sive annalium libri tres consists of three volumes:
First

Widukind of Corvey starts book one with the fall of the Germanic Thuringian dynasty. In his version, Amalaberga is the daughter of the Frankish king Huga. After Huga's death Thiadrich, his son by a concubine is crowned as king, but Amalaberga convinces her husband, Irminfrid, with the help of the warrior Iring, that it is really she who should inherit the kingdom. A war starts, and after the Franks under Thiadrich have won a battle at Runibergun, the Thuringii retreat into the fortress of Scithingi (modern Burgscheidungen).

The Franks get the help of the newly immigrated Saxons who are looking for land, and a bloody battle is fought at Scithingi. After many warriors have been slain, Irminfrid sends Iring as a messenger to Thiadrich to ask for peace. The kings reach an agreement and plan to slay the Saxons on the morrow, but the Saxons get word of this, storm Scithingi during the night and kill all adults. Only Irminfrid and his family escape. The Saxons celebrate their victory for three days, afterwards they return to Thiadrich, who gives the country over to them.

By the order of Thiadrich, Iring convinces Irminfrid to return to the Frankish court. When Irminfrid kneels in submission before Thiadrich, Iring slays him. Thiadrich banishes him, as he has become despicable to all men by this deed, and he wants to have no part of this crime. Iring announces that he will atone for his crime and get revenge for his former master and slays Thiadrich as well. He places the body of Irminfrid over that of Thiadrich, so he will be victor in death at least, and leaves.

Widukind ends by doubting the truth of this story, but recounts that the Milky Way is called "Iring's Street" to his day. An allusion to the conversion of the Saxons to Christianity under Charlemagne brings him to the early Saxon dukes and details of the reign of Henry the Fowler.
Second

The second book opens with the election of Otto the Great as German king, treats of the risings against his authority, omitting events in Italy, and concludes with the death of his wife Edith in 946. He dedicates his writings to Matilda, daughter of Otto and abbess of Quedlinburg, a descendant of the Saxon leader Widukind, his own namesake.
Third

Book three tells the story of Liudolf, Duke of Swabia and Otto's Franconian campaign.

Einhard: The Life of Charlemagne / Vita Karoli Magni
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vita_Karoli_Magni

Vita Karoli Magni
Vita Karoli Magni (Life of Charles the Great) is a biography of Charlemagne, King of the Franks and Holy Roman Emperor, written by Einhard.

Literary context

Historians have traditionally described the work as the first example of a biography of a European king. The author endeavored to imitate the style of that of the ancient Roman biographer Suetonius, most famous for his work the Twelve Caesars. Einhard's biography is especially modeled after the biography of Emperor Augustus, the first emperor of the Roman Empire.

Date

The date of the work is uncertain and a number of theories have been put forward. The inclusion of Charlemagne's will at the end of the work makes it fairly clear that it was written after his death in 814. The first reference to the work, however, comes in a letter to Einhard from Lupus of Ferrieres which is dated to the mid-ninth century. Dates have been suggested ranging from about 817 to 833, usually based on interpretations of the text in the political context of the first years of the reign of Louis the Pious and Louis' attitude to his father. No theory has yet emerged as an obvious front runner, and it is likely that debate will continue.

Author
Charlemagne and Charles V from Vita et gesta Karoli Magni, Cologne 1521

Einhard's book is about intimate glimpses of Charlemagne's personal habits and tastes. He occupied favoured position at Charlemagne's court so he had inside information. Einhard received advanced schooling at the monastery of Fulda sometime after 779. Here he was an exceptional student and was quite knowledgeable. The word was sent to Charlemagne of Einhard's expertise. He was then sent to Charlemagne’s Palace School at Aachen in 791. Einhard then received employment at Charlemagne's Frankish court about 796. He remained at this position for twenty some years. Einhard's book was expressly intended to convey his appreciation for advanced education. He wrote his biography after he had left Aachen and was living in Seligenstadt.

Einhard and Charlemagne

Einhard's position while with Charlemagne was that of a modern day minister of public works, so he had intimate knowledge of his court. Einhard was also given the responsibility of many of Charlemagne's abbeys. It used to be suggested that Einhard's wife Emma was a daughter of Charlemagne; this can generally be disregarded as a twelfth-century fabrication, however, since there is no proof.

Reliability

Most biographies of the Middle Ages related only good deeds of their subject with many embellishments to improve their subject. Einhard's biography, however, is considered on the most part to be a trustworthy account of Charlemagne's life. It is considered an excellent account of earlier Medieval life. Despite Einhard's limitations, since this was his first attempt at a major writing, the British historian Thomas Hodgkin said, "almost all our real, vivifying knowledge of Charles the Great is derived from Einhard, and that the Vita Karoli Magni is one of the most precious literary bequests of the early Middle Ages."

The Monk of Saint Gall: The Life of Charlemagne
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notker_the_Stammerer#The_Monk_of_Saint_Gall

The Monk of Saint Gall
...
The monk's untitled work, referred to by modern scholars as De Carolo Magno ("Concerning Charles the Great") or Gesta Caroli Magni ("The Deeds of Charles the Great"), is not a biography but consists instead of two books of anecdotes relating chiefly to the Emperor Charlemagne and his family, whose virtues are insistently invoked. It was written for Charles the Fat, great-grandson of Charlemagne, who visited Saint Gall in 883. It has been scorned by traditional historians, who refer to the Monk as one who "took pleasure in amusing anecdotes and witty tales, but who was ill-informed about the true march of historical events", and describe the work itself as a "mass of legend, saga, invention and reckless blundering": historical figures are claimed as living when in fact dead; claims are attributed to false sources (in one instance, the Monk claims that "to this King Pepin [the Short] the learned Bede has devoted almost an entire book of his Ecclesiastical History"; no such account exists in Bede's history – unsurprisingly, given that Bede died in 735 during the reign of Charlemagne's grandfather Charles Martel); and Saint Gall is frequently referenced as a location in anecdotes, regardless of historical verisimilitude (Pepin the Hunchback, for example, is supposed to have been sent to Saint Gall as punishment for his rebellion, and – in a trope owed to Livy's tale of Tarquin and the poppies – earns a promotion to rich Prüm Abbey after advising Charlemagne through an implicit parable of hoeing thistles to execute another group of rebels). The Monk also mocks and criticizes bishops and the prideful, high-born incompetent, showy in dress and fastidious and lazy in habits, whilst lauding the wise and skillful government of the Emperor with nods to the deserving poor. Several of the Monk's tales, such as that of the nine rings of the Avar stronghold, have been used in modern biographies of Charlemagne.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Would it be more pertinent to read the original language of the documents rather than the translation? I was thinking about a translator could make few errors of what they were reading/translating of the descriptions of certain event(s). I just don't want to miss any detail.

Yes for sure!

If you can read it in the original language it was written in, it will always be more precise. So if you can do that, I think you should read it in the original language...

Yes, but don't rely on google translate.

As has been mentioned, sometimes a famine can occur and be talked about without every using the word. And sometimes a sky phenomenon can occur without every mentioning any keyword.

I actually think that ya'll should READ the sources because when we discuss it and how to sort this from that, you will have a huge load of information already in your head to add to your "weight."

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

I want to ask what means:
"Location past" ? {Name of city or country as it was known then. IF that info is available. Like Carthage is now Tunisia.}
"Location present" ? {See prev. }

and "Validity" ? {Don't worry about this. That is for more expert application, assessing a source as reliable or not.}

And I would add "notes" for the location :)

[1] Paul's designation of the whole region from the Don to the west, as Germany, which is wholly
incorrect, appears, according to Mommsen (p. 61), to have come from his misinterpretation of the words
of his authority, Isidore of Seville

Then I will mark Germany but don't have "notes" to imput this information.

Also, I notice that you have weather events: very cold winter. And migration connected. You should put the migration separate.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

I'm adding First information from:
HISTORY OF THE LANGOBARDS
(Historia Langobardorum)
by Paul the Deacon (Paulus Diaconus)
Translated by William Dudley Foulke, LL.D.
Published 1907 by the University of Pennsylvania

I took a look at one of your entries.

You designate a 'cold winter' in the "event type" but the text you include in the form does not reflect that. You have:

Paulus Diaconus wrote that whole German (lower - left bank of the Rhine and upper right bank of the Rhine as Roman says) soldier migrated to the "Illyria and Gaul" and Italy for the Food. Burning Cities.

Notice that the above makes no sense. It does not tell us any details about the cold winter.

Also, the remark about "burning cities" might need to have an entry of its own.

And then:

"The region of the north, in proportion as it is removed from the heat of the sun and is chilled with snow and frost, is so much the more healthful to the bodies of men and fitted for the propagation of nations, just as, on the other hand, every southern region, the nearer it is to the heat of the sun, the more it abounds in diseases and is less fitted for the bringing up of the human race."

"Germany then, innumerable troops of captives are often led away and sold for gain to the people of the South"

The above also did not tell us anything about a cold winter.

Where is the original text from Paul?

Also, you really do need to be careful about spelling ESPECIALLY in keywords.

Also, as I said, a cold winter is an ENVIRONMENTAL event, while a migration is the human result and the two must be separated.

Finally, when you copy and paste in text, please make sure that it is formatted correctly.

This project requires THINKING about the data so that when you enter it, we can then extract it in a variety of ways. You might use the same exact quote from Paul the Deacon in four different entries as I have noted above: Cold Winter, Conflagration, Migration, Famine.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Icedesert, in your second entry, your inserted text says:

All germane tribe "Therefore that section to which fate had assigned the abandonment of their native soil and the search for
foreign fields, after two leaders had been appointed over them, to wit: Ibor and Aio,"

"German" is misspelled. That can produce difficulty for finding things in a database. Spelling is important.

We don't care anything about Ibor and Aio so they don't belong in the keywords.

Second bit of text:

"This island then, as those who have examined it have related to us, is not so much
placed in the sea as it is washed about by the sea waves which encompass the land on account of the
flatness of the shores.[1] Since, therefore, the peoples established within the island had grown to so great
a multitude that they could not now dwell together, they divided their whole troop into three parts, as is
said, and determined by lot which part of them had to forsake their country and seek new abodes."

What island is this text talking about?

Neither of these texts are useful to the database for background for the entry. Also notice that i pasted them in exactly as you had them which means that they were copy-pasted with errant paragraphs.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Icedesert, if you will paste in here the text that you are working from, I'll try to show you what is relevant and what is not and how to approach this project.

 

[Mikey]

Re: Historical Events Database

Based on feedback I made the following changes:

1) Duration can now be more conveniently specified in years, months and days.
2) Added BC/AD selectors to all year fields (this just switches minus/plus)
3) Added seasons to the Occurrence date. You can enter the season if given and if no date is given.
4) Renamed category "Atmosphere" to "Celestial"
5) I have added more fields to the "Source" group. Maybe Laura can explain how she wants these fields to be used.
6) Added notes for locations
7) Moved the "Intensity" attribute (for earthquakes etc.) from the "Source" group to the "Other" group

A reminder: Only Laura, Mr. Scott and me can add Event Types, so if you don't find one to your needs, ask here for it to be created.

Data, I took a look at the database just and saw Laura's and Icedesert's additions, and no longer saw yours or Mr. Scott's like yesterday. Will it have "1 of 2 pages" feature? I was wondering about looking back over my additions in the future in case if I already added it or not.

My and Mr. Scott's events were tests, and I have removed them. Later there will be a pagination feature, but for now it is just one long list.

 

[Mikey]

Re: Historical Events Database

5) I have added more fields to the "Source" group. Maybe Laura can explain how she wants these fields to be used.

Author:
If the book you have is a modern work which cites ancient sources, put the author of the modern work.
If the book you have is a direct re-print of an ancient work (e.g. Livy), put the ancient author (Livy).

Title:
Analogous to Author.

Volume:
Volume number of the book if available.

Page:
Page/Paragraph/Verse number

Publisher:
self-explanatory

Publised at:
self-explanatory

Derived from:
If the Author cites another author, put the other name here. E.g. when Donald K. Yeomans cites the chinese astronomer Ho, put "Ho" into this field.

Author ancient:
This is the name of the author who actually was present to the event (if available)

Floruit from/to:
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floruit

Discovered year:
Only for archeological artefacts (if available)

 

[Zadius Sky]

Re: Historical Events Database

Author:
If the book you have is a modern work which cites ancient sources, put the author of the modern work.
If the book you have is a direct re-print of an ancient work (e.g. Livy), put the ancient author (Livy).

I just noticed that when I inputted the new author, the "used" drop-down popped up, completely blocking my viewing of that field, which I wouldn't able to input anything. Can you adjust that a bit?

 

[Zadig]

Re: Historical Events Database

In searching about Michael the Syrian, I found two others authors about the events in the Byzantine Empire/Middle East from the V century to the VIII century: Agapius of Hierapolis (d.942) and Theophanes the Confessor (c. 758/760 – March 12, 817/818).

And there are a lot of earthquakes, comets and plagues in their writings in particular for the VII century.

So I can help for the database, if a timeline of earth changes in the syriac/byzantine sources are useful.

 

[Scottie]

Re: Historical Events Database

It could by made very easy, because there is this database:

_http://pleiades.stoa.org

They have 30000 location names with GPS coordinates and time periods in CSV format. It could be easily integrated into our little app -- if needed. I'll wait for more feedback.

So, maybe just "Location past" and "Location present" as text names like they are now, but add autocomplete dropdown for faster data entry?

There is already autocomplete for those 2 location fields.

Well, I'm just gonna shut up then and let you carry on!

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

In searching about Michael the Syrian, I found two others authors about the events in the Byzantine Empire/Middle East from the V century to the VIII century: Agapius of Hierapolis (d.942) and Theophanes the Confessor (c. 758/760 – March 12, 817/818).

And there are a lot of earthquakes, comets and plagues in their writings in particular for the VII century.

So I can help for the database, if a timeline of earth changes in the syriac/byzantine sources are useful.

Yeah, those guys are useful and there are a few others like Evagrius Scholasticus and John of Ephesus etc.

I've spent nearly the whole day inputting a bunch of stuff that was already in text in my working MS of next couple volumes of Secret History. That's why I've got several authors cited. Anyway, I did this so that ya'll would be able to just look at it, look through it, and see how to do it.

You'll see, for example, that there was a 3 phase event in 373 BC, a comet, an earthquake, and a tsunami. I entered each as it's own event and just used the same descriptive text and fixed up the keywords so it would be obvious that it was related.

Notice also the Giant looking comet of 137 BC and then the comet with the Giant Tail in 135. I suspect that they are one and the same because of the descriptions. But we'll deal with that further on.

When you make an entry, check the year on the database to make sure that the entry - by the same author you are working with - isn't already there. If the same event is there, but you have a different account of it, simply copy the testimony of YOUR author (and who the author is) into the text thingy in the already existing entry. That way we won't duplicate events but we'll know who all wrote about it.

 

[darksai]

Re: Historical Events Database

For now it can be either/or/none. But it's good to have it since it will allow us to draw maps later.

I'm currently adding into the database 30000 ancient location names and 90000 modern location names with GPS coordinates and autocomplete feature. Will be available later today or tomorrow.

5) I have added more fields to the "Source" group. Maybe Laura can explain how she wants these fields to be used.

Author:
If the book you have is a modern work which cites ancient sources, put the author of the modern work.
If the book you have is a direct re-print of an ancient work (e.g. Livy), put the ancient author (Livy).

Title:
Analogous to Author.

Volume:
Volume number of the book if available.

Page:
Page/Paragraph/Verse number

Publisher:
self-explanatory

Publised at:
self-explanatory

Derived from:
If the Author cites another author, put the other name here. E.g. when Donald K. Yeomans cites the chinese astronomer Ho, put "Ho" into this field.

Author ancient:
This is the name of the author who actually was present to the event (if available)

Floruit from/to:
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floruit

Discovered year:
Only for archeological artefacts (if available)

How about separating the "sources" into "sources" and "references"? It could save a fair amount of space, especially texts with many events, and time for those entering the data. Also, you could have a foreign key column to the Event in the Reference table which could come in handy (for example, looking up the density of references per event over time and comparing with major historical markers)

|--------------|    
| Source       |    
|--------------|    
| Title        |    
| Author       |    
| Publisher    |    
| Published At |
| Flourit      |
|--------------|    


|------------|
| Reference  |
|------------|
| Event      |
| Source     |
| Page       |
| Volume     |
| Author A.  |
| Disc. Year |
|------------|

If I had a login, would I be able see to the tables and columns? It would be much better if I could work my design (idea) into what is already there if possible.


The gist of it is to have a DAG where the starting vertices are "types" of events, and the rest are "categories". The "type" would be the event as it was actually observed, as far as is currently known ("unkown X" or "possible Y" as types cater for uncertainty, as well as that it makes the uncertainty of an event more visible) which can be updated if better references are found later. The edges of the graph are "is a/an" relationships, with a constraint that paths to a higher level of abstraction must be unique. This ensures that there is no redundancy when searching for all events of a single category. This allows the hard data to have a single-point-of-entry to the organizational structure (the "type" of event) that the latter can be tinkered with without affecting the former. So far, the best solution I've thought of is just a two column table, where a row [ A ; B ] would be read "A is a B", and [ NULL ; value ] would identify "types" and be used to terminate recursive searches and establish constraints. I've attached a simple graph to demonstrate a few different possibilities of similar things being related in certain ways and not others.


I'm keen to work on this project by helping to design and develop tools (including simulations) as well :)

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Re: Historical Events Database

I've been doing a little searching for dendrochronology info relating to past climate events. Found this paper (_http://media.longnow.org/files/2/Salzer_Hughes_2007.pdf). From the conclusion:

... there is especially strong evidence for climatically-effective eruptions in or just before 2906/2905, 2036, 1626, 1524, 476, 425/424, 421, 406, 245, and 42 BC. These growth-minima years can be matched with both ice core signals of eruptions ... and with frost-damaged rings ... Similar circumstances ... can be seen in or immediately preceding the following years AD: 536, 627, 687/688, 691-695, 899/900, 1201, 1288, 1458, 1602, 1641, and 1681. ...

In addition to the individual years that can be matched with eruptive events, there is evidence for extended periods of cooling (Table 4). These low-growth intervals may be a result of several eruptions closely spaced in time, as appears to be the case in the mid-6th, late-7th, early-10th, mid-15th, and 17th centuries AD.

Table 4 gives these date ranges:

2036-2023 BC
1909-1907 BC
1135-1132 BC
425-419 BC
282-280 BC
42-46 BC
536-547 AD (authors cite Baillie suggesting a possible comet event)
687-698 AD
899-903 AD
1332-1336 AD
1348-1360 AD
1458-1474 AD
1641-1647 AD
1672-1681 AD
1702-1705 AD
1836-1842 AD

 

[mkrnhr]

Re: Historical Events Database

Excellent find AI! Their statistical approach is sound (although I quite do not understand the "calendar year cross-dating"), and if pine trees live up to five thousand years (!), we have a very good source of data there.