Historical Events Database - History

Re: Historical Events Database

Laura said:
Well, if he isn't including environmental events, don't bother. I've listed the most important historians for the period that concerns us, in a post above. I've provided the text that already has hand-picked extracts that only need to be entered. You might concentrate on that for the moment.

I can go through that document and check the database to see if they are already listed and if not, add them. I can do this for an hour or two per day. Unless someone wants to do it and/or can do it faster and earlier as it is an important document, then let me know please!

Here are the authors and their time period:

Zachariah Rhetor 465 - 553
John Malalas 491 - 578
John of Ephesus 507-588?
Pseudo-Zachariah 507 – 588? (contemporary of John of E)
Theophanes of Byzantium 518 - 567 ?
Agathias 530 - 582
Evagrius Scholasticus 536 – 593
Menander Protector 558 - 582
Chronicon Paschale 600 – 627
Zuqnin ? - 775
Dionysius of Tel Mahre 818 - 845
Constantine Porphyrogenitus 913 - 959
Suda 913 – 959?
Michael the Syrian 1166-1199

I searched for online sources of these authors and couldn't find anything useful. If someone has a PDF of the book, I could make my way through it instead of doing the document.
 
Re: Historical Events Database

Gaby said:
I searched for online sources of these authors and couldn't find anything useful. If someone has a PDF of the book, I could make my way through it instead of doing the document.

I can have a look, which book are you referring to?


Data, I tried sorting the database by Date but it's not working properly. It starts as a descending list and reaches the furthest date somewhere in the middle before going back to closer dates. :huh:
 
Re: Historical Events Database

Laura said:
Since the meddling that we are concerned with mainly concerns the Roman Empire I pretty much delimited it with the founding of Rome. I think the earliest secure event Yeomans had was in the 7th century BC. If we don't really have any social events to link it to, there's no point in having it go back any further.
Laura said:
Well, I would like to take it to Tunguska since we have an ice-core signal there.

That covers roughly 800 BC - 1910 CE if I understand correctly.

Since I have taken the works of Flavius Josephus to process I now have a question: from when do I start entering possible clues into the database and what about the sources?

http://www.livius.org/jo-jz/josephus/josephus.htm slightly modified said:
The Jewish Antiquities are a kind of world history, and Flavius Josephus' view is biblical. In the past, God used the Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians and Greeks to punish or to rescue His chosen people; now it was the Roman's turn to punish them. This was something the Greeks and Romans of his age could understand all too well. In almost every case, you can read 'Fortune' or 'Destiny' or 'Fate' instead of 'God'; on the other hand, when Flavius Josephus uses one of these common pagan expressions, he must have had the Jewish God in mind.

One of the author's aims is to show that the Jewish culture is older than any other then existing culture; the same idea can be found in the writings of Philo of Alexandria, a Jewish philosopher who lived in the first half of the first century CE.

The first half of the Jewish Antiquities is essentially nothing but a rephrasing of biblical texts: it tells the story of the Jews from the creation until the Persian rule. However, Josephus realized that non-Jews might reasonably ask questions about the reliability. Therefore, he supports the Biblical account with quotes from, for example, Berossus, who had read Babylonian sources, and Menander of Ephesus, who claimed to have studied Tyrian sources. There is some debate about the quotations, which may be from an intermediary source, Alexander Polyhistor, who took some liberties.

The second half of the Jewish Antiquities, dealing with the centuries between Alexander the Great and the great war against the Romans, is based on previous historians (Polybius, 1 Maccabees, Nicolaus of Damascus, and the author of the Letter of Aristeas may be identified). Where the original sources are now lost, we may assume that Josephus has simply told in his own words what he has found in these sources. His value as a historian is as great as his sources.

Since the Jewish War and the Jewish Antiquities both cover the period 175 BCE - 66 CE, we can compare the two works. It has been shown that the second version is never a simple revision of what Josephus had written before; usually, he goes back to the same earlier historians and rephrases what he has read. For example, the account in the Jewish War 1.358-2.117 of king Herod's rule is not simply revised in the books fifteen, sixteen and seventeen of the Jewish Antiquities; instead, Josephus has again retold what was written in one basic source, Nicolaus of Damascus. Furthermore, there are additions that must come from the oral tradition of the Pharisees.

Flavius Josephus wrote [his] first work, the Jewish War, in Aramaic, and presented it to Vespasian between 75 and 79. An assistant translated it into the language of scholars of his days, Greek; this second edition was dedicated to Titus, who had become emperor in 79. The seventh book of the Jewish War, which describes the fate of the Jewish prisoners and the fall of Masada, is a later addition. Its title is slightly misleading. The books not only tell the story of the war between the Jews and Romans, but also deal with the preceding period from 175 BCE.

It should be stressed that Josephus is, according to ancient criteria, an excellent historian. Authors like Polybius of Megalopolis and Lucian have published treatises on the writing of history, and Josephus lives up to the standards they set. He knows the country he is describing, he has experience as commander of an army, and he understands the issues of the war. Moreover, he interviewed representatives of both sides. This is more than can be said about his younger contemporary Tacitus, who is usually regarded as a greater historian. [...]

The Jewish War was written under imperial auspices. Vespasian and Titus gave the historian access to the imperial archives and to the logbook of their campaign. This enabled Josephus to write a reliable story, even about events at places where he had never been. At the same time, imperial patronage made the story unreliable. Vespasian's bid for power is presented in a favorable way; Titus is a valiant warrior whose heroism is matched only by his kindness towards the victims of the war.

Flavius Josephus' kindness towards his Roman benefactors does not mean that he is negative about the Jews. On the contrary, he has pity with 'the innocent' in Jerusalem, who are trapped inside a city under siege and cannot leave. At great length, he describes the atrocities to which they are subjected.

But his sympathy does not include all Jews. The responsibility for all the bloodshed rests squarely on the shoulders of the people that he describes as 'brigands', 'madmen', 'desperado's', or 'bandits': those are the invectives he has in store for violent nationalists like the Zealots, the Sicarians and men like John of Gischala. It is no coincidence that the Jewish War ends with a speech of the leader of the rebels at Masada, the Sicarian Eleaser, who more or less admits that all violence was a result of nationalistic agitation and also admits that God is angry. (The speech is, of course, written by Flavius Josephus himself. Almost no one survived the capture of Masada, and the historian can never have received a report of Eleaser's last words.)

The common people with their silly nationalistic ideas, their religious intolerance and their aggressive behavior are responsible for the disaster. The Jewish aristocrats -to which Flavius Josephus belonged- are of course not to blame for the war. The same applies to war crimes. These are invariably committed by the rank and file, never by their officers.

In the first century, there were serious economic problems in Judaea. The rabbinical sources indicate that the Temple authorities were widely regarded as corrupt. In this conflict between the rich elite and the poor peasants, the Romans sided with the elite, as they always did. Peasant resistance against the Temple authorities coincided with resistance against the Romans. The war that started in 66 was not only a national revolt against a greedy emperor and his tactless governor, but also a class war among the Jews. Josephus, like every aristocrat, had no real sense of identification with the dispossessed and oppressed peasantry; ultimately, he did not understand the true cause of the war he described.

How far do I go and how much effort do I spend to find his original sources, if possible? Or will it be sufficient to relay only Josephus' take on them? Please advise.
 
Re: Historical Events Database

Eboard10 said:
Gaby said:
I searched for online sources of these authors and couldn't find anything useful. If someone has a PDF of the book, I could make my way through it instead of doing the document.

I can have a look, which book are you referring to?

I could start with the word document tomorrow and/or when I receive password for the database. If someone wants to do the document faster than me, I could work with whatever book you can pass me that is useful from that list.

I did found Constantine Porphyrogenitus online, but I went quickly through the book and found no dates :huh:, so IMO it is useless:

_http://homepage.univie.ac.at/ilja.steffelbauer/DAI.pdf

If I remember correctly, someone is doing Michael the Syrian. So any other source will be good.

Thanks!
 
Re: Historical Events Database

Eboard10 said:
Laura said:
Eboard, your latest entry, you misspelled "Caracalla" in keywords. A misspelled keyword is useless.

Oops, my bad. :/

Will double check all my entries from now on.

Let's all keep an eye on this and watch each other. I know that I make typos and stuff, so let's all be double checking.

Meanwhile, I'm thinking about the way some of the things are described in Chinese astronomy. They clearly know a comet from a star, more or less, so this "guest star" business has me puzzled. Especially with the entry I'm looking at right now where it says:

A guest star trespassed against the Moon.

That almost makes it sound like something impacted the Moon.

Well, maybe it will sort itself out as we get all the data in and patterns begin to emerge.
 
Re: Historical Events Database

Gaby said:
Laura said:
Well, if he isn't including environmental events, don't bother. I've listed the most important historians for the period that concerns us, in a post above. I've provided the text that already has hand-picked extracts that only need to be entered. You might concentrate on that for the moment.

I can go through that document and check the database to see if they are already listed and if not, add them. I can do this for an hour or two per day. Unless someone wants to do it and/or can do it faster and earlier as it is an important document, then let me know please!

Here are the authors and their time period:

Zachariah Rhetor 465 - 553
John Malalas 491 - 578
John of Ephesus 507-588?
Pseudo-Zachariah 507 – 588? (contemporary of John of E)
Theophanes of Byzantium 518 - 567 ?
Agathias 530 - 582
Evagrius Scholasticus 536 – 593
Menander Protector 558 - 582
Chronicon Paschale 600 – 627
Zuqnin ? - 775
Dionysius of Tel Mahre 818 - 845
Constantine Porphyrogenitus 913 - 959
Suda 913 – 959?
Michael the Syrian 1166-1199

I searched for online sources of these authors and couldn't find anything useful. If someone has a PDF of the book, I could make my way through it instead of doing the document.

I've kind of already done that. That's how the entries got in the document: because I painstakingly read through the texts and extracted them and transcribed them. Most of them are not easily available which was why I was putting in the full extracts.

But note: if an entry has multiple events, follow the rule to make multiple entries each in its proper category.
 
Re: Historical Events Database

Laura said:
Meanwhile, I'm thinking about the way some of the things are described in Chinese astronomy. They clearly know a comet from a star, more or less, so this "guest star" business has me puzzled. Especially with the entry I'm looking at right now where it says:

A guest star trespassed against the Moon.

That almost makes it sound like something impacted the Moon.

Well, maybe it will sort itself out as we get all the data in and patterns begin to emerge.

Here's a reference to the term in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guest_star_(astronomy)

In Chinese astronomy, the term guest star (ke xing 客星) refers to a star which has suddenly appeared visible in a place where no star had previously been observed and becomes invisible again after some time. The term is a literal translation from ancient Chinese astronomical records. Modern astronomy recognizes that guest stars are manifestations of cataclysmic variable stars: novae and supernovae. Still, the term "guest star" is still used in the context of ancient records, since the exact classification of an astronomical event in question is based on interpretations of old records, rather than on direct observations. In ancient Chinese astronomy, guest stars were one of the three types of "new stars", the other two being comets in modern understanding. The earliest Chinese record of guest stars is contained in Han Shu (漢書), the history of Han Dynasty (206 BCE – 220 CE), and all subsequent dynastic histories had such records.

Of ancient European chronicles, the possible early indications at supernovae are vague references to astronomical events which may be interpreted as the supernova of 185 recorded by Chinese. At the same time, astronomers are in dispute why a notable supernova of 1054 is missing from European records.

Although I'm stumped about what it would mean by "trespassed against the Moon".
 
Re: Historical Events Database

§ 10. Zeus and the Meteorites.
(a) The cult of meteorites.


Apparently witches were meteorites to, see page 881 (link at the bottom)


[Strassburg c. 1488 — 1493] Apparently the witch and two of her followers are travelling through the air, transformed into animals and mounted on a forked stick, while a hailstorm breaks from a dark cloud to injure the trees.

Rain of stones page 494

217 B.C. Hot stones fell from the sky at Praeneste (Liv. 22. i).
216 A rain of stones on the Aventine at Rome and at Aricia (Liv. 22. 36).
215 A rain of stones round the temple of luno Sospita at Lanuvium (Liv. 23. 31).
212 A rain of stones for two days on the Alban Mount (Liv. 25. 7).
211 A rain of stones at Eretum (Liv. 26. 23).
207 Stones fell from the sky at Veii, and again there was a rain of stones on the
Armilustrum at Rome (Liv. 27. 37).
194 A rain of stones in the territory of Hadria (Liv. 34. 45).
188 Showers of stones on the Aventine (lul. Obs. 56 = 2).
186 A rain of stones in Picenum (lul. Obs. 59 = 4).
169 A rain of stones at -Reate (Liv. 43. 13). At the close of the same year stones
fell simultaneously in the ager Romanus and in the ager Veiens (Liv. 44.18).
152 A rain of stones at Aricia (lul. Obs. 77 — 18).
94 A rain of stones on a farm of the Vestini (lul. Obs. 111 = 51).
52 Infra n. 3.
41 A rain of stones (C. Lycosthenes (K. Wolffhart) Prodigiorum ac oslentorum
chronicon Basileae 1557 p. 228).
897 A.D. A rain-storm followed by the fall of white and black stones at Ahmed-dad
near Koufah (an Arabic MS. of Ibn-al-Athir quoted by E. Quatremere
Mtmoires gtographiques et historiqnes sur V Egypte, et sur quelques contrtes
voisines Paris 1811 ii. 487).
So far as Italy is concerned, the decreasing number of entries rather suggests that this
particular form of volcanic activity had petered out before the beginning of our era.
2 87 B.C. A rain of ashes at Athens (Paus. 9. 6. 6).
473 A.D. A rain of fiery dust or ashes at Byzantion (Kedren. hist. comp. 350 C (i. 614
Bekker), Glykas ann. 4. 264A (p. 489 Bekker), Zonar. 14. i (iii. 253
Dindorf). Theophan. chronogr. p. 103 (i. 185 Classen) refers this rain
of fiery dust to the year of Leon i's death, which he places in 466 A.D.
C. Lycosthenes (K. Wolffhart) op. tit. p. 296 dates it in the second year
of Leon i, 462 A.D. (!), cp. Nikephor. eccl. hist. 15. 20 (cxlvii. 60 B ff.
Migne). Prokop. de Bell. Goth. 6. 4. 27 and Marcellin. Comes thron.
ann. 472 (li. 931 C Migne) attribute the fall to an eruption of Vesuvius.
The menologium Basilianum for Nov. 6 p. 170 (cxvii. 147 A-B Migne)
says that the ashes fell glowing hot and burnt up ir&vra. T& Qvrd).
3 214 B.C. A rain of chalk at Cales (Liv. 24. 10).
194 A rain of earth on several occasions at Rome (Liv. 34. 45).
190 A rain of earth at Tusculum (Liv. 37. 3, lul. Obs. 55= i).
172 A rain of earth at Auximum (Liv. 42. 20).
167 A rain of earth at Anagnia (Liv. 45. 16, lul. Obs. 70=11).
166 A rain of earth at many places in Campania (lul. Obs. 71=12).
133 A rain of earth at Ardea (lul. Obs. 86= 27 a).
101 A rain of clay on the Aventine at Rome (lul. Obs. 104 = 44 a).
98 A rain of white chalk in the theatre (lul. Obs. 107 = 47).
52 At Rome 'many thunderbolts, many clods, stones, shards and blood went
flying through the air' (Dion Cass. 40. 47).
50 A rain of baked tiles at Rome (Plin. nat. hist. 2.147, cp. Lyd. de ostent.prooem.
6 p. 13, I2ff. Wachsmuth KarqvexO'nffa.v 5£ wXivOot iro\\dicis 6irTai xal
/rtJj/is, ucrirep eiri ZTJVWVOS TOV KO.&' i]/j,at).

860 A.D. Blood-red dust fell from the sky at Byzantion ([Georg. Monachos] chron.
5. 3. 15 (ex. 1048 c—1049 A Migne)).


https://ia601506.us.archive.org/34/items/Zeus.StudyInAncientReligion.Vol.3PartIIizeusGodOfTheDarkSky/CookArthurBernard-Zeus.StudyInAncientReligion.Vol.3PartIIi.pdf
 
Re: Historical Events Database

The main listing page now shows the latest created events on top -- useful for checking after an event has been saved.
 
Re: Historical Events Database

Shijing said:
Here's a reference to the term in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guest_star_(astronomy)

In Chinese astronomy, the term guest star (ke xing 客星) refers to a star which has suddenly appeared visible in a place where no star had previously been observed and becomes invisible again after some time. The term is a literal translation from ancient Chinese astronomical records. Modern astronomy recognizes that guest stars are manifestations of cataclysmic variable stars: novae and supernovae. Still, the term "guest star" is still used in the context of ancient records, since the exact classification of an astronomical event in question is based on interpretations of old records, rather than on direct observations. In ancient Chinese astronomy, guest stars were one of the three types of "new stars", the other two being comets in modern understanding. The earliest Chinese record of guest stars is contained in Han Shu (漢書), the history of Han Dynasty (206 BCE – 220 CE), and all subsequent dynastic histories had such records.

Of ancient European chronicles, the possible early indications at supernovae are vague references to astronomical events which may be interpreted as the supernova of 185 recorded by Chinese. At the same time, astronomers are in dispute why a notable supernova of 1054 is missing from European records.

Although I'm stumped about what it would mean by "trespassed against the Moon".

Yup. Since two of the types of "guest stars" are supposed to be comets, and yet the Chinese had no problems at all designating comets and "bushy stars" and "broom stars" and "tailed stars" etc, so WHY that distinction?
 
Re: Historical Events Database

Eboard10 said:
Data, I tried sorting the database by Date but it's not working properly. It starts as a descending list and reaches the furthest date somewhere in the middle before going back to closer dates. :huh:

Could be, but I can't see it at a quick glance. Are you sure you have not missed the minus signs? Could you tell me two dates that are out of order?
 
Re: Historical Events Database

Data said:
Eboard10 said:
Data, I tried sorting the database by Date but it's not working properly. It starts as a descending list and reaches the furthest date somewhere in the middle before going back to closer dates. :huh:

Could be, but I can't see it at a quick glance. Are you sure you have not missed the minus signs? Could you tell me two dates that are out of order?

Of course I didn't take into account the minus sign :-[

I assumed they were dashes as I wasn't expecting entries to go that far back in time.
 
Re: Historical Events Database

I don't think this qualifies as a UFO. I put that category in for objects flying through the sky that are not clearly identified like shields or arrows or whatever.

In fact, I followed the opinion of Jacques Vallée and Chris Aubreck in Wonders in the sky:

438, Constantinople (Istanbul), Turkey

A child abducted to Heaven

An earthquake has destroyed Constantinople; famine and pestilence are spreading. The cataclysm has leveled the walls and the fifty-seven towers. Now comes a new tremor, even stronger than all the previous ones. Nicephorus, the historian, reports that in their fright the inhabitants of Byzantium, abandoning their city, gathered in the countryside:

"They kept praying to beg that the city be spared total destruction: they were in no lesser danger themselves, because of the movements of the earth that nearly engulfed them, when a miracle quite unexpected and going beyond all credence filled them with admiration."

"In the midst of the entire crowd, a child was suddenly taken up by a strong force, so high into the air that they lost sight of him. After this, he came down as he had gone up, and told Patriarch Proclus, the Emperor himself, and the assembled multitude that he had just attended a great concert of the Angels hailing the Lord in their sacred canticles.

" Acacius, the bishop of Constantinople, states, T h e population of the whole city sawit with their eyes.' And Baronius, commenting upon this report, adds the following words:

"Such a great event deserved to be transmitted to the most remote posterity and to be forever recorded in human memory through its mention every year in the ecclesiastical annals. For this reason the Greeks, after inscribing it with the greatest respect into their ancient Menologe, read it publicly every year in their churches.'"

Source: This story has been collected and published by writers for many centuries. The version quoted here is by 14 t h century chronicler Nicephorus Callistus, but versions can be found in a letter by Acacius, Patriarch of Constantinople (d.489) to Peter Fullo, Patriarch of Antioch, and also in a letter by Pope Felix III (483-492) to the same Peter Fullo. The story in itself serves as the founding story for the origin of the Trisagion hymn of the Greek Church. The different versions agree on most details except the precise year and the fate of the raised child.

I notice that the earthquake of 365 is listed as coming from Theophanes the Confessor. Zadig... is that you?

Well, the version from Ammianus Marcellinus is much better and older and that should be the version we use. Check my text which includes that. In all cases, I tried to get the earliest version of events. There's no reason ya'll can't be using that and getting the data entered.

Ok, I will change it.

So, I skip the reports of the VIth century by Theophanes because he plagiarised Malalas, and I put your earliest versions of events ?

And I add only the version of Theophanes if he brings something new ?
 
Re: Historical Events Database

Zadig said:
I don't think this qualifies as a UFO. I put that category in for objects flying through the sky that are not clearly identified like shields or arrows or whatever.

In fact, I followed the opinion of Jacques Vallée and Chris Aubreck in Wonders in the sky:

I think Vallee and Aubreck overreach in their book. Most of those "ancient UFOs" are probably cometary or meteorological phenomena. That said, the book might be useful for exactly that reason...
 
Re: Historical Events Database

Zadig said:
I don't think this qualifies as a UFO. I put that category in for objects flying through the sky that are not clearly identified like shields or arrows or whatever.

In fact, I followed the opinion of Jacques Vallée and Chris Aubreck in Wonders in the sky:

Bad idea. Vallee et al have NO real CLUE about comets, electric universe, etc. To them, everything, even obvious comets, are UFOs.

Zadig said:
I notice that the earthquake of 365 is listed as coming from Theophanes the Confessor. Zadig... is that you?

Well, the version from Ammianus Marcellinus is much better and older and that should be the version we use. Check my text which includes that. In all cases, I tried to get the earliest version of events. There's no reason ya'll can't be using that and getting the data entered.

Ok, I will change it.

So, I skip the reports of the VIth century by Theophanes because he plagiarised Malalas, and I put your earliest versions of events ?

And I add only the version of Theophanes if he brings something new ?

Exactly. Always try to get the earliest version. If another author covers it, you can include his version in the text/notes field and his name, work, etc. That, in itself, is an interesting thing because you can see how texts get changed. And sometimes, as in the case of Ammianus and the tsunami, it can be shown that two sources are drawing from a third original source, and each giving different parts attention. See attached papers:
 

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