Historical Events Database - History

[Zadius Sky]

Re: Historical Events Database

Just to make sure as I don't want to end up entering the same data twice.

Yeah, I would check the date and the entries occupying it before you enter anything to avoid duplicates.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Historical Events Database

I inputted Crete instead of Rhodes since it was mentioned, but it covered a big area. Of that, Laura told me to have both Earthquake and Tsunami entries of the same information to give it weight - if anyone have more sources/eye-witness accounts, you can add more to them.

I'm sorry, it was zadig. I just realized your entries on Crete refers to another time period in the 300s. So far it doesn't seem to be related with the "Spear Star" of 500. So I left that alone for the time being.

I finished reading Zachariah of Mitylene (The Syriac Chronicle), of which I added a few events to the database (some has been added to the existing entries). After reading the latest posts here, I'll go back to read this again to weed out anything more closely, but I'll be focusing religiously on Zosimus tomorrow to find any phenomena with that in mind - I'll try to avoid irrelevant battles.

I deleted the following entries from The Syriac Chronicle as they are related to the event I'm revising:

1) Insect Infestation, year 501
2) Famine, year 501
3) Earthquake, year 501

Taken from:

Book VII, Chap. III

"But an earthquake occurred. And locusts invaded 'Arab [districts] of Mesopotamia. And there was a famine in the year nine, of which James the doctor of Batnae wrote an account, in the eleventh (year) of the reign of Anastasius. And many of the Arabs died, both in Amida, whither they retired, and in various other places."

The entries from Michael the Syrian already covers these 3 entries pretty well. Just in case, I added this quote and its reference from The Syriac Chronicle in "other notes".

Okay, so from the "Spear, Broom star" in circa 500 AD, I got all the earthquakes covered:

Rhodes, Ptolemais, Tyre, and Sidon, Neocaesarea, Nicopolis. And I left the version from zadig (Michael the Syrian) of the Rhodes earthquake as it added more details.

 

[Zadius Sky]

Re: Historical Events Database

I have a question about which category to put this under:

A. 806. This year the moon was eclipsed on the Kalends of September; and Earduff king of the North-humbrians was driven from his kingdom; and Eanbert bishop of Hexham died. Also in the same year, on the 2nd before the Nones of June, a cross appeared in the moon on a Wednesday at dawn; and afterwards in this year, on the third before the Kalends of September, a wonderful circle was seen about the sun.

Source: The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle / Britain

It contains three entries:

806 AD - May 31st - Cross appeared on moon.
806 AD - August 30th - Circle around the sun.
806 AD - Sept. 1st - Eclipse.

The last one was properly added, but the first two are currently under "Atmospheric Prodigies" because I'm not sure exactly what they are but they're interesting phenomena. The circle around the sun could be a "Halo" phenomenon and the cross on the moon could be a "cross of light." If "Atmospheric Prodigies" is incorrect, where would I put them?

 

[Gaby]

Re: Historical Events Database

806 AD - May 31st - Cross appeared on moon.
806 AD - August 30th - Circle around the sun.
806 AD - Sept. 1st - Eclipse.

The last one was properly added, but the first two are currently under "Atmospheric Prodigies" because I'm not sure exactly what they are but they're interesting phenomena. The circle around the sun could be a "Halo" phenomenon and the cross on the moon could be a "cross of light." If "Atmospheric Prodigies" is incorrect, where would I put them?

I would put them in "Atmospheric Prodigies" as well (except for the Eclipse).

From Laura: "...atmospheric prodigy. I made that category for things like unusual rainbows, noctilucent clouds, lightning out of a clear sky, visual images of 2, 3 4, however many suns that are caused by optical phenomena (ice in the upper atmosphere), rings around the sun or moon, THAT sort of thing."

But maybe the cross on the moon could have been an impact event?

 

[Zadius Sky]

Re: Historical Events Database

806 AD - May 31st - Cross appeared on moon.
806 AD - August 30th - Circle around the sun.
806 AD - Sept. 1st - Eclipse.

The last one was properly added, but the first two are currently under "Atmospheric Prodigies" because I'm not sure exactly what they are but they're interesting phenomena. The circle around the sun could be a "Halo" phenomenon and the cross on the moon could be a "cross of light." If "Atmospheric Prodigies" is incorrect, where would I put them?

I would put them in "Atmospheric Prodigies" as well (except for the Eclipse).

From Laura: "...atmospheric prodigy. I made that category for things like unusual rainbows, noctilucent clouds, lightning out of a clear sky, visual images of 2, 3 4, however many suns that are caused by optical phenomena (ice in the upper atmosphere), rings around the sun or moon, THAT sort of thing."

Thanks, I missed that - I really ought to have a print-out of the procedures involved.

But maybe the cross on the moon could have been an impact event?

Quite possible.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Historical Events Database

Doh, I missed a couple of obvious things. Ironically I DID make the daytime darkness setting Dust Veil as Type first, and then went back like a minute later and changed it to Atmospheric Prodigy. For some reason I was under the impression Aventine was a settlement outside of the city - probably got it mixed up with another place name. I'll work on my interpretation of the text and check things I'm not sure about.

I'll fix the previous entry and enter the next item for 186 BC. Thanks for the input.

Hi seekintruth, I was about to start entering the quotes from Laura's post on Julius Obsequens but it seems you're working on it? Just to make sure as I don't want to end up entering the same data twice.

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,32532.msg444409.html#msg444409

ADDED: If so, I'll gladly help with making other entries as I have the whole weekend free.

Yes, that's the post I'm taking the entries from. You can also enter the items in that post, if you want, just check the date and make sure the item isn't entered already. I just started doing Julius Obsequens as something ready to go as far as dates and important information extracted as entries, just to practice and since they needed to be entered at some point anyway.

I'm still reading Roman Antiquities of Dionysius of Halicarnassus and doing the Obsequens entries in between, because there's not much of relevance to make entries from DH yet.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Historical Events Database

I'm revising my old entries, realized I missed some. I noticed zadig did one entry of 430 Dust/Ash. I'm covering the same event and adding what was missing from Michael the Syrian (431). I deleted my earthquake event because the one of zadig was more complete.

I'm running into "it's the end of the world" predictions, I'm putting those in People under Society with "End of the world" as keywords if that is okay.

Many said the end of the world was approaching because of the signs that were multiplying …

 

[seek10]

Re: Historical Events Database

There is one entry on punic war at 216 BC. Not sure the following interesting portion is covered are not.

https://archive.org/details/L277SiliusItalicusPunicaI18
pdf page 439
216 BC

When the Romans reached Cannae, built on the site of a former city, they planted their doomed standards on a rampart of evil omen. Nor, when such destruction was hanging over their unhappy heads, did the gods fail to reveal the coming disaster. Javelins blazed up suddenly in the hands of astounded soldiers ; high battlements fell down along the length of the ramparts ; Mount Garganus,** collapsing with tottering summit, overset its forests ; the Aufidus rumbled in its lowest depths and roared ; and far away across the sea seamen were scared by fire burning on the Ceraunian* mountains. Light was suddenly withdrawn, and the alabrian mariners, plunged in darkness, looked in vain for the shore and land of Sipus ^ ; and many a screech-owl beset the gates of the camp. Thick swarms of bees constantly twined themselves about the terrified standards, and the bright hair of more than one comet, the portent that dethrones monarchs, showed its baleful glare. Wild beasts also in the silence of night burst through the rampart into the camp, snatched up a sentry before the eyes of his frightened comrades, and
scattered his limbs over the adjacent fields. Sleep also was mocked by terrible images : men dreamt that the ghosts of the Gauls were breaking forth from
their graves. Again and again the Tarpeian rock was shaken and wrenched from its very base ; a dark stream of blood flowed in the temples of Jupiter ; and
the ancient image of Father Quirinus <* shed floods of tears. The Allia * rose high above its fatal banks. The Alps did not keep their place, and the Apennines
were never still day or night among their vast gorges. In the southern sky, bright meteors shot against Italy from the direction of Africa ; and the heavens
burst open with a fearful crash, and the countenance of the Thunderer was revealed. Vesuvius also thundered, hurling flames worthy of Etna from her
cliffs ; and the fiery ^ crest, throwing rocks up to the clouds, reached to the trembling stars.

But lo ! in the midst of the army a soldier foretells the battle. With distraction in his aspect and his brain, he fills the camp with his wild shouting, and
gasps as he reveals coming disaster : " Spare us, ye cruel gods ! The heaps of dead are more than the fields can contain ; I see Hannibal speeding through
the serried ranks and driving his furious chariot over armour and human hmbs and standards. The wind rages in wild gusts, and drives the dust ^ of battle in
our faces and eyes. Servilius,* careless of his life, is down ; his absence from the field of Trasimene does not help him now. Whither is Varro fleeing ? Ye
gods ! Paulus, the last hope of despairing men, is struck down by a stone. Trebia cannot rival this destruction. See ! the bodies of the slain form a
bridge, and reeking Aufidus belches forth corpses, and the huge beast ^ treads the plain victorious.

The Carthaginian copies us and carries the consul's axes, and his lictors bear blood-stained rods. The triumphal procession of the Roman passes from Rome
to Libya. And, O grief!—do the gods force us to witness this also ? — victorious Carthage measures the downfall of Rome by all the heap of gold that was
torn from the left hands of the slain.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

What a goodie! (I've been away from my desk doing laundry and Saturday type stuff.)

https://archive.org/details/L277SiliusItalicusPunicaI18
pdf page 439
216 BC

When the Romans reached Cannae, built on the site of a former city, they planted their doomed standards on a rampart of evil omen. Nor, when such destruction was hanging over their unhappy heads, did the gods fail to reveal the coming disaster. Javelins blazed up suddenly in the hands of astounded soldiers ;

Sounds like St. Elmo's Fire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Elmo%27s_fire

Put it under Plasma phenomena

high battlements fell down along the length of the ramparts ; Mount Garganus,** collapsing with tottering summit, overset its forests ; the Aufidus rumbled in its lowest depths and roared ;

Obviously an earthquake above, but the next is a real doozie! Sounds like cometary bombardment accompanied by thick smoke, agitated critters, etc!

and far away across the sea seamen were scared by

(1) fire burning on the Ceraunian* mountains. (Fireballs)

(2) Light was suddenly withdrawn, and the alabrian mariners, plunged in darkness, looked in vain for the shore and land of Sipus ^ ; and (Dust Veil)

(3) many a screech-owl beset the gates of the camp. Thick swarms of bees constantly twined themselves about the terrified standards, (Animal Prodigies)

(4) and the bright hair of more than one comet, the portent that dethrones monarchs, showed its baleful glare. (Comets, Fireballs)

(goes with 3) Wild beasts also in the silence of night burst through the rampart into the camp, snatched up a sentry before the eyes of his frightened comrades, and
scattered his limbs over the adjacent fields.

Sleep also was mocked by terrible images : men dreamt that the ghosts of the Gauls were breaking forth from
their graves.

(5 this is just more earthquake description, but might want to list it again with keyword: aftershocks) Again and again the Tarpeian rock was shaken and wrenched from its very base ;

(6 water table phenomenon) a dark stream of blood flowed in the temples of Jupiter ; and
the ancient image of Father Quirinus <* shed floods of tears. The Allia * rose high above its fatal banks.

(7) The Alps did not keep their place, and the Apennines
were never still day or night among their vast gorges. (Might want to make two entries here: earthquake Apennines and earthquake Alps)

(8) In the southern sky, bright meteors shot against Italy from the direction of Africa ; (Fireball Shower)

(9) and the heavens
burst open with a fearful crash, and the countenance of the Thunderer was revealed. (Tunguska like Airburst?)

(10) Vesuvius also thundered, hurling flames worthy of Etna from her
cliffs ; and the fiery ^ crest, throwing rocks up to the clouds, reached to the trembling stars.

But lo ! in the midst of the army a soldier foretells the battle. With distraction in his aspect and his brain, he fills the camp with his wild shouting, and
gasps as he reveals coming disaster : " Spare us, ye cruel gods ! The heaps of dead are more than the fields can contain ; I see Hannibal speeding through
the serried ranks and driving his furious chariot over armour and human hmbs and standards.

(11) The wind rages in wild gusts, and drives the dust ^ of battle in
our faces and eyes. (Violent Storm) Servilius,* careless of his life, is down ; his absence from the field of Trasimene does not help him now. Whither is Varro fleeing ? Ye
gods ! Paulus, the last hope of despairing men, is struck down by a stone. Trebia cannot rival this destruction. See ! the bodies of the slain form a
bridge, and reeking Aufidus belches forth corpses, and the huge beast ^ treads the plain victorious.

The Carthaginian copies us and carries the consul's axes, and his lictors bear blood-stained rods. The triumphal procession of the Roman passes from Rome
to Libya. And, O grief!—do the gods force us to witness this also ? — victorious Carthage measures the downfall of Rome by all the heap of gold that was
torn from the left hands of the slain.

My, my, my. What a find!

 

[shijing]

Re: Historical Events Database

Just a note, Laura, that I've started updating the database with entries from Archaeoastronomy in East Asia and supplementing it with Yeomans (1991), starting from where you left off in 245 AD. I wanted to let you know since you've been working on Yeomans, so that you're aware that I'll be including his information as I go even though the author category won't show it on the main page.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Just a note, Laura, that I've started updating the database with entries from Archaeoastronomy in East Asia and supplementing it with Yeomans (1991), starting from where you left off in 245 AD. I wanted to let you know since you've been working on Yeomans, so that you're aware that I'll be including his information as I go even though the author category won't show it on the main page.

That's fine. I've been tied up most of the day and even now, I have to go empty the dryer and fold clothes.

 

[Palinurus]

Re: Historical Events Database

I'm done with my preparatory research concerning the works of Flavius Josephus. I've bookmarked what I think I'll need while reading and excerpting, to have easy access to those sources. Before attempting to enter any item to the database, I plan to read the current topic anew searching for the technical details of the project and especially the given examples of failures and subsequent fine tuning.

DATA: will you please give me access to the database website now? Never got a PM up to now (just checked again).

I want to examine the look and feel of it and get acquainted with the standard operating procedure and look at some of the already existing entries -- like the ones that got corrections for one reason or another -- to get an inkling of how to go about this. It's the first time ever I will be doing something like this in this specific way and I try to avoid at least the silly mistakes and want to preempt having to repeate attempts to enter contributions and the necessity of doing corrections by others as well.

As for the Works of Flavius Josephus, in the English language there are basically just two renowned translations: the first one by William Whiston in 1737 and the second one by Henry St. John Thackeray around 1920 and after his demise assisted by several other editors and translators. This latter one forms the backbone of the Loeb edition, originally in nine volumes with Greek and English on adjacent pages and in later editions expanded to thirteen volumes with separated books for the original Greek and for the English translations.

The Whiston translation has been popular and in constant use for over 275 years now in many different editions and is widely available on line (list here which includes Dutch and German translations as well) including a recent (2010) Kindle edition which I plan to buy and use for this project. It seems more credible as a source than a random PDF file of dubious origin without proper accountability of the used source that I also happen to have. The Kindle edition displays the Loeb numbers (paragraphs) throughout the texts for easy referencing.

The St. John Thackeray translation is only available in book form. I found a few isolated volumes of the early 1920 nine volume edition on line but never a complete set. Later editions in thirteen volumes are nowhere to be found on line, only in bookseller stores and quite pricey. For purists only I dare say.

I've found an alternative translation of Josephus Works in two volumes by Ebenezer Thompson and William Charles Price published in 1777/78 here which I'm going to download as a PDF file for comparison purposes only.

I plan to start reading next week and I will begin with the Jewish War being Josephus' first published work covering the period of ca. 175 BCE - 74 CE with the war itself during from 66 CE - 74 CE -- mainly for the already stated reason:

Since the Jewish War and the Jewish Antiquities both cover the period 175 BCE - 66 CE, we can compare the two works. It has been shown that the second version is never a simple revision of what Josephus had written before; usually, he goes back to the same earlier historians and rephrases what he has read. For example, the account in the Jewish War 1.358-2.117 of king Herod's rule is not simply revised in the books fifteen, sixteen and seventeen of the Jewish Antiquities; instead, Josephus has again retold what was written in one basic source, Nicolaus of Damascus. Furthermore, there are additions that must come from the oral tradition of the Pharisees.

So, I will be able to go over this period again while reading Jewish Antiquities later on and will have a built in double check on my possible entries of Jewish War in the database from there.

Already have learned a lot by only doing this preparatory work. Now up for the real thing... ;)

 

[Zadius Sky]

Re: Historical Events Database

I managed to read through The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle up to AD 995 and stopped there. I added 33 entries from that source.

I just got back from one of the universities in the Triangle and finally got to read Ronald T. Ridley's rare translation of Zosimus' Historia Nova, which is a better translation than the previous ones and with a good commentary.

Apparently, Zosimus contributed several aspects that led to the Empire's decline, such as failure to hold Saecular Games in 313 (which was "supposed" to cure everyone of diseases, or so he said), Constantine's conversion, death of Julian, anti-pagan campaign by Theodosius, and the sack of Rome in 410. There's basically two themes in his Historia Nova: Decline of Paganism and Barbarisation of the Empire. He latched at Constantine and Theodosius for being Christians and being weak with how they handled the barbarians, which led to the downfall because around 394, the Empire gradually diminished and became a home for barbarians. Nowhere mentioned about the atmosphere or comet or even a star.

Ridley made good commentaries, including showing major distortions and contradictions in Zosmius; he also pointed out that while Zosimus used Eunapius and Olympiodorus (Greek sources), the latter two were using Nicomachus Flavianus' Annales (in Latin).

Anyway, I already added a couple of things from that source to the database, rather minor things like plagues and earthquakes.

However, I found 3 things that I am not sure if they would need to be added or not:

Firstly, here's one during Emperor Probus' barbarian wars (this entry was marked as 277-78):

When the war was prolonged and a famine overtook the whole country, there was a heavy cloud-burst which poured down corn with rain and piled up heaps of grain. Everyone was so amazed at this phenomenon that at first they did not dare touch the grain to satisfy their hunger, but since necessity is stronger than fear, they finally baked bread and ate it, thus simultaneously, through the emperor's good fortune, banishing their hunger and easily gaining the advantage in the war.

A raining corn? Did that really happen?

Next entry put it between 308 and 311 during the reign of Maxentius:

A fire struck Rome, and burned the temple of Fortune. Everyone ran to help put it out, and a soldier uttering blasphemies against religion was killed when the mob attacked him out of piety. This induced the troops to mutiny and they almost have destroyed the city, had not Maxentius quickly calmed their fury.

Ridley's commentary regarding the fire: "Whether it came out of the air or the earth is unknown."

I'm not sure where to put the above: basically, it's fire that came from somewhere, burned the temple, one soldier cursed and was killed, by the mob, which in turned caused the troop to mutiny. What a strange chain of events.

This last piece is interesting because it involved "apparitions." This occurred around 396 about why Alaric I spared Athens and managed to sack every other city, including Rome in 410. This is considered a portent?

And I should not pass over in silence the reason for the city's miraculous preservation, because it will excite piety in all who hear of it. When Alaric and his whole army came to the city, he saw the tutelary goddess Athena walking about the wall, looking just like her statue, armed and ready to resist attack, while leading their forces he saw the hero Achilles, just as Homer described him at Troy when in his wrath he fought to avenge the death of Patrolclus.

These apparitions were too much for Alaric who, giving up his attempt against the city, sent heralds to treat for peace.... After accepting the terms and exchanging oaths, Alaric entered Athens with a few men. He was treated with every kindness and, after bathing and being entertained by select citizens and given gifts as well, he went off leaving the city and the whole of Attica unharmed.

Alaric, therefore, leaving the whole of Attica unharmed for fear of these portents, proceeded to the Megarid which he captured by a sudden attack, and the continued his march to the Peloponnese without resistance.

What's interesting about above is because it's "unbelievable." However, there's another possibility - earlier in Zosimus, there was an earthquake in 375 (after the big earthquake of 365 - I checked other sources, it's a different earthquake affecting Crete, the Peloponnese, and the rest of Greece) that affected a lot of cities in Greece, except for Athens and Attica, which were "spared." And, having read more about Rome between 400 and 410, there were plagues killing off its inhabitants, which rendered the city weak to defend itself, which was similar to other cities, adding with earthquakes, that Alaric sacked. Maybe Athens (and Attica) may not suffered as others did?

 

[seek10]

Re: Historical Events Database

What a goodie! (I've been away from my desk doing laundry and Saturday type stuff.)

https://archive.org/details/L277SiliusItalicusPunicaI18
pdf page 439
216 BC

When the Romans reached Cannae, built on the site of a former city, they planted their doomed standards on a rampart of evil omen. Nor, when such destruction was hanging over their unhappy heads, did the gods fail to reveal the coming disaster. Javelins blazed up suddenly in the hands of astounded soldiers ;

Sounds like St. Elmo's Fire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Elmo%27s_fire

Put it under Plasma phenomena

Done. 12 entries.

I put the date as 216 BC instead of punic war date 216 BC Aug 2, as the description looked more before the war "happened when romans landed"(probably before war) and futuristic description of Hannibal
"Spare us, ye cruel gods ! The heaps of dead are more than the fields can contain ; I see Hannibal speeding through the serried ranks and driving his furious chariot over
armour and human hmbs and standards. The wind rages in wild gusts, and drives the dust ^ of battle in our faces and eyes. Servilius,* careless of his life, is down ; his absence from the field of Trasimene does not help him now. Whither is Varro fleeing ? Ye gods !"

fire burning on the Ceraunian* mountains. (Fireballs) : I put this in under environmental > Unusual fire as it said "on the mountains".

I placed the complete description in "other Notes" of comet Type entry . If you want me to update the complete descriptions in all entries "other Notes", I will.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Historical Events Database

I thought about this a couple of times, but never brought it up here. When I did the few entries from the Atmospheric Signs and Disasters: Portents and Prodigies in Ancient Rome thread, I used the entire quote in each entry from the same item. In other words, I would take an item, say for 190 BC, and if it broke down to 4 entries into the database, I would put the whole quote from Laura for that item in each category/subcategory of entries to keep the context and relation of the text intact. Is that the proper way of doing it, or should each sentence(s) that apply to that specific entry only be entered as the quote?